PIHB Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The story aspect of tor is amazing. Everything else is on par with wow 5 years ago. Bioware, get your butts in gear. Your end game just plain sucks. I expected better from you guys. Dailies and hanging out in the fleet is not what i would call an end game. If you want to go the way of every other two bit wanna be wow killer. (I am in no way implying that swtor was or is intended as a wow killer) just keep giving us the same old tired excuse. Yeah, that one about this being a new game and blah blah. We have heard it before. Give us an easy way to get a fp group going, make crafting worth while, let me decorate my ship, something, ANYTHING! You arent competing against a new wow, you are competing against a 5 year old game. Its not fair, its reality, deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Lol. Did you actually read my posts? Or are you just going to continuously ask the same question, even though it's already been answered? If you cannot understand what is being said, then who has got "a bit of learning to do"? Hmm? Finally, as what people (no matter where on the casual / hardcore scale they are) feel is needed, I would suggest you focus less on arguing with people and focus more on opening your eyes to what's in front of you. As an example: read your comment about "dailies", why they are in the game, and why others might feel the need to do them. <sigh> As I suspected. You'd avoid the direct question. Even when I quoted your exact words, lol. I know it's difficult to loose an interweb argument. It's okay..we won't think (much) less of you. But when you've piled self-ownage on top of that, it's just...well...I'm embarrassed for you. I guess I'll just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The story aspect of tor is amazing. Everything else is on par with wow 5 years ago. Bioware, get your butts in gear. Your end game just plain sucks. I expected better from you guys. Dailies and hanging out in the fleet is not what i would call an end game. If you want to go the way of every other two bit wanna be wow killer. (I am in no way implying that swtor was or is intended as a wow killer) just keep giving us the same old tired excuse. Yeah, that one about this being a new game and blah blah. We have heard it before. Give us an easy way to get a fp group going, make crafting worth while, let me decorate my ship, something, ANYTHING! You arent competing against a new wow, you are competing against a 5 year old game. Its not fair, its reality, deal with it. I actually prefer comparing to the joke that is modern wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) 1-50 questing was good, real good. After that, it sucks and amounts to nothing more than another dreary gear grind MMO that does not even do that well. Plus they balance and fix bugs entirely based on population, thus the most played get all the attention while the least played are totally ignored other than exsessive nerfs every patch to please the majority even more. I guess I was really spoiled by Trion; best UI ever and a dev team who listens + constantly patching the game with max 15 mins down time. It is a pity that they choose the typical bland over used sword and sorcery fantasy as the base, other wise I would still be playing it now. If Trion did TOR, it would be a 10000x better at 1/100th the cost most likely. But w/e, no other MMO to play until certain other titles hit the scene later this year. Stuck with TOR until then. /sigh. Edited February 13, 2012 by fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) <sigh> As I suspected. You'd avoid the direct question. Even when I quoted your exact words, lol. I know it's difficult to loose an interweb argument. It's okay..we won't think (much) less of you. But when you've piled self-ownage on top of that, it's just...well...I'm embarrassed for you. I guess I'll just leave it at that. I agree, this discussion is indeed pointless. Because you seem to be more intent with arguing and just saying the same thing over and over again, and not actually listening to what people are actually saying. Which kinda echoes what bioware is doing. But please, don't let me stop you from arguing against a point that was never actually made (and is actually just one which you just misunderstood). If you feel that is the only way to "win" an internet argument, whatever floats your boat my friend. I'm off to bed. Edited February 13, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrage Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 1-50 questing was good, real good. . What were your "OMG" moments while leveling? I've had one, and it was beating a world boss around level 16 with about 10 guild members. And even then I got zip for it. No quest rewards or anything. But it was as cool as it got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really You say that like it's a bad thing. No casuals = WoW with a 2 year lifespan = No big MMO projects in the future(aka no Tor, no Rift, no Guild Wars(both 1 and 2), etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think it has a solid foundation but they missed a ton of things. inb4 some ******* asks me How many MMO's have I designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Wow people just love to complain. Only a handful of you posted anything positive and just focused on the negative. Granted the complaints were valid, but as a previous poster stated, its not even two months old. What did we expect? I've always loved Bioware games obviously because of the plot based games it produces and SWTOR delivered big time from that standpoint. I'll be taking a small break in March when Mass Effect 3 comes out, but I love Star Wars too much to stop playing this game for the foreseeable future. I wanted an MMO, what i got was a single player game with online elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet Wish i could quote sig this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You say that like it's a bad thing. No casuals = WoW with a 2 year lifespan = No big MMO projects in the future(aka no Tor, no Rift, no Guild Wars(both 1 and 2), etc) Thats pure BS and Im so tired of reading it! UO = massive development at the time and pre WOW EQ = massive development at the time and pre WOW AC = massive development at the time and pre WOW Lineage 1 and 2 = massive development at the time and pre WOW FFXI = massive development at the time and pre WOW DAoC = massive development at the time and pre WOW SWG = massive development at the time and pre WOW DDO = massive development at the time and pre WOW And many many more The MMORPG genre might not of had 20 million subscribers (news flash, it still doesnt, dispite WOW numbers, WOW WAS A CULTURAL FAD AND ITS NUMBERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MODERN GAMING) but the genre was very much alive, well, and profitable prior to WOW. RIFT, TOR, AION, and more all get built with or with out WOW being a success, jusr maybe they get designed better if WOW had never been. WOW did NOT create the genre WOW did NOT save the genre WOW really only hurt the genre as its success stifled innovation and design advancement and created a failed streotype to build on. This genre will stay stagnent until someone ignores WOW completely and develops a GREAT MMORPG rather then trying to build a popular MMORPG. So PLEASE STOP with the nonsense that games dont get made with out WOW. The Genre was alive, growing, developing at a nice rate long before WOW and hopefully will again long after WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thats pure BS and Im so tired of reading it! UO = massive development at the time and pre WOW EQ = massive development at the time and pre WOW AC = massive development at the time and pre WOW Lineage 1 and 2 = massive development at the time and pre WOW FFXI = massive development at the time and pre WOW DAoC = massive development at the time and pre WOW SWG = massive development at the time and pre WOW DDO = massive development at the time and pre WOW And many many more The MMORPG genre might not of had 20 million subscribers (news flash, it still doesnt, dispite WOW numbers, WOW WAS A CULTURAL FAD AND ITS NUMBERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MODERN GAMING) but the genre was very much alive, well, and profitable prior to WOW. RIFT, TOR, AION, and more all get built with or with out WOW being a success, jusr maybe they get designed better if WOW had never been. WOW did NOT create the genre WOW did NOT save the genre WOW really only hurt the genre as its success stifled innovation and design advancement and created a failed streotype to build on. This genre will stay stagnent until someone ignores WOW completely and develops a GREAT MMORPG rather then trying to build a popular MMORPG. So PLEASE STOP with the nonsense that games dont get made with out WOW. The Genre was alive, growing, developing at a nice rate long before WOW and hopefully will again long after WOW. Thank you thank you thank you. It drives me crazy how people still think that wow is the be-all mmo. It's not. It just hit the market at the right time. And just so happened to be around the time Sony started messing with SWG. There are so many other contributing factors to wow's success. Some good reading: http://wowdata.org/general-news/wow-subscriber-myths-other-misconceptions/ http://mendax.org/2009/02/10/world-of-warcrafts-success-is-greatly-because-of-luck/ This one is good to help devs stop chasing the carrot: http://www.dfcint.com/game_article/aug06article.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and I just wanted to throw my opinion out there and discuss any agreements or disagreements about swtor. Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. This game has the best (imo) story mode of any mmo (and a few single player games) that I have played. I have noticed a trend in MMO's lately that didn't start with this game, but is certainly prevalent. Solo-ability to cap and as quick as possible. At the rate i'm going I will probably hit my cap before I get charged for my first month. This is a double edged sword for me. Sure I like that I don't HAVE to group to level up, and with this type of system the grind is almost eleminated. But for a subscription based service, I don't know if I will spend the wow like amount of time at the endgame, grinding out the same raids, pvp, or dailies for new gear and such. One of my favorite mmo's is EQ2 (and please this is an opinion, so lets not make this a discussion on how much SOE sucks), and, to me, the journey is as fun as the endgame. Subscribing to that game wasn't a bother to me, because I felt like I was getting the most time out of my money. It would take months for even some hardcore players to get to cap (I am talking the early days, takes a lot less time now). I like the crafting system. I have played everything from active crafting (eq2) where you actually have to pay attention to what your doing, and find creative ways not to fall asleep at the keyboard, passive crafting (aion was good for this) where you just load up on mats and let your character craft while you do the laundry. There are more games I have played, but those seem like the two extreams (and dont even talk to me about vanguard lol). This system seems to have the nice balance of getting stuff done crafting wise, while your character can still do stuff on his own... To me that strikes a good balance. Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far. This is a great game for people who like to roll alts. It's a boring game for people who don't. It's pretty much that simple. Hopefully in future updates they will add more features that will make it a more appealing game for the latter group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have played mmo's since the genre started, I understand how mmo's grow over time, todays market is nothing like it used to be, and not in a good way /sigh As far as TOR, yea it's lacking some things I am used to, but I follow the dev tracker, i know allot things are coming, like all mmo's a year from now this will be a very different game, one thing I am very pleased with is the server stability, I do not get disco'ed and rarely get a client crash.. unlike the instant gratification generation today, I have patients, and am looking forward to the improvments of the game and added content over time, plus there is no other game on the market that I have any intrest in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunra Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 As a Pre-Cu SWG Vet, I would rather be playing SWG NGE...and I was till it was taken away from me because of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLightningLord Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 PS I thought Skyrim was crap... Played all of one hour before the box hit the shelf. Congratulations, you quit a game and formulated an opinion on it based on a single hour played in a game that contains at least 100 hours of content. Your opinions are irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We can thank WoW for that. No, really...WoW's live team, actually. The original development team was pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 WoW's live team, actually. The original development team was pro. The original development team is most likely working on Titan now. Can't come soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Basically, they've got about 8 months to make 50 worth playing than rolling alts imo, because that's how long it will take most of their playerbase to max out all 8 classes and see both faction's storylines. That's assuming players are willing to do that with all 8 classes. I'm on my third and I'm already starting to go catatonic through much of the very predictable side quests. The only way for me to play that's bearable right now is just to be queued for WZ's constantly and play only the class quests. And levelling to 50 doesn't take all that long when you do it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoj Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Everybody disappointed in how the game has turned out because of the high budget has failed to realize a few things. Hiring the amount of voice actors was probably the largest sink of cash spent, which adds very little to the actual game development. As well as that, the three cinematic trailers would have been ridiculously expensive to make, in the realm of $100 - 250k each. Marketing is where heaps of the cash probably went. I'd be interested to see a breakdown on a spreadsheet by Bioware's accounting dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 As well as that, the three cinematic trailers would have been ridiculously expensive to make, in the realm of $100 - 250k each. Marketing is where heaps of the cash probably went. I'd be interested to see a breakdown on a spreadsheet by Bioware's accounting dept. The cinematic trailers likely cost much closer to a couple million dollars each than what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Luvin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This is a great game for people who like to roll alts. It's a boring game for people who don't. It's pretty much that simple. Truer words have never be spoken about this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arigo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really <- Casual player that at one time played WoW. Don't be thanking me for the way leveling is done these days. I absolutely hate it. Even EQ2 was too fast for my tastes. I'm one of those vets that actualy ENJOYED the "journey". When an item upgrade might last me several months instead of 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Just wanted to throw that in there. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithurElb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) <- Casual player that at one time played WoW. Don't be thanking me for the way leveling is done these days. I absolutely hate it. Even EQ2 was too fast for my tastes. I'm one of those vets that actualy ENJOYED the "journey". When an item upgrade might last me several months instead of 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Just wanted to throw that in there. Carry on. I'm quoting you, that don't means my response is for you. It's about the "casual player" thing. I don't know what people here think a "casual player" is. -Hello, I'm Mithur, and I'm a Casual Player -(Chorus)Hello, Mithur! Sound like a kind of disease, you know, something to be shame of. It isn't. I'm a casual player. Why? Beacuse I don't want a guild witch make me to stay a saturday nigth to do three raids. Because I want to make the game at my pace, not rushing my way through the game. Since WoW, the term "hardcore" means "Endgame player". I think we all agree on this. You make your leveling, and then, go to "endgame content". If you finish your leveling two days after the expansion goes out, then you are the king. And so on. I have been playing a toon in Ryzom for more than 7 years. Yeah, I know most of you didn't even know the game, but is a hard one. Too hard for most people here. It don't have levels, but skills, in a tree, so you can learn any skill... given time. Need months (If you play ALL time, for me, was years) to get one skill to max level (250), and that is for something like "Two handed swords". Then, if you want to heal, you have to level from zero. In a group, of course. If you want go ranged, from 50 (The first 50 points are common for all attacks). And so on. So I'm also, a vet. (That's not the only game I've played, just the onle I've played longest). A casual have no problem with "hard" content (I insist, I'm a casual, and everything in Ryzom is way harder than in WoW). A casual is someone who, simply, don't want have his life tied to a game. If a Guild makes me stay a full weekend, I leave the guild. If a guild doesn't understand I have to go in middle of a raid because a personal matter, I left the guild. If a group can't understand that the game is the last of my priorities, I letf the group. And that's being a casual. What you mean when you speak about casuals is the "I want all, I want it NOW". Well, that's a difference. Because most of the player base are casuals like me (Who can face hard game), and only a few are "I want all now and easy". And most of you are mixing that two concepts. And you are really wrong. This game need being way more harder, and needs a lot of different, and really hard content, just need to be content that don't slave you in time. If I must be 8 hours in a row to get something, I won't. If I must be doing something for days to get something, then I will. I mean, I love Ryzom because I know some things that few more people in the game knows or is able to. Because the game have so many different things, that you can go for one and feel special. And it must be hard, very hard to get. SWTOR (Or WoW, witch I never played... tried and despise it) have nothing of that. Everyone makes more or less the same, getting to the hardest level, or not, and that's all. But noone here feels special about what he does, because he have hundreds of people around who have made the very same. Edited February 13, 2012 by MithurElb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzurps Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet This... plus... - Terrible non-optimized engine. I've got my Engine compendium ready... Proprietary Engine (v4.0) Directional Light Shafts Color Grading Point Light Shafts Plus much much more... Proprietary Mass PvP: ______ Unreal Engine 3 Directional Light Shafts Color Grading Point Light Shafts Plus much much more... http://www.unrealengine.com/awards_accolades/ DCUO Tera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-1gDZBcsWY Unreal Engine 3 Mass PvP: ______ HEROengine (/facepalm) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk Mass PvP: Edited February 13, 2012 by Sizzurps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts