Nemmar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) The "same kind of attitude players have in Warcraft" is ALREADY PREVALENT in this community. So, too late. Just cause you say so, doesnt make it true. Don't try to pretend you're any different. You don't care about any one else's game experience but your own. Ontopic: here's my reason, the sooner I get burnt out on doing instances the sooner I unsub to the game. Running with LFG pugs is the easiest way to get burnt out on Flashpoints. Lame argument is lame. I am thinking of a whole community of players (albeit the ones that want to have a meaningful and enjoyable experience) and not only myself. If i cared only for myself i would go around and post: If they put LFG system i leave the game etc etc like the haters love to do. No. A LFG system on single server is on high demand. A cross server one could exist but must have defenses against the nasty side effects it brings... so it would depend on how to go around it. Beeing mindful at the same time that if these systems fail, there would be no way back. Now tell me, who is beeeing selfish here? the one trying to find common ground or the one going QQQQQQQ i want it MY WAY NAU AND DONT CARE ABOUT ANYONE ELSE!? Sorry, try again. Edited February 13, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBull Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I ment to 5 star this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The "same kind of attitude players have in Warcraft" is ALREADY PREVALENT in this community. So, too late. Now just give me the functionality to run Maelstrom this week if I want to, without wasting my paid game time staring at Empire reflections, and I'll be happy. I already know who I'll be grouped with - good people and a few jerks. No different than PUGs as it is in game right now.the health of a server community requires people to put effort into typing /ignore "yournamehere" and /2 "yournamehere" "complained through the whole FP and made our group wipe on purpose 3 times while ninjalooting loot that they couldnt even use." so it doesnt end up like wow with trolls/griefers running rampant. my server is nothing like the server i came from in wow. sure LFG spam in /2, but nothing like the wannabe elitests in wow. repercussions for ones actions is a breath of fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiralyon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The "same kind of attitude players have in Warcraft" is ALREADY PREVALENT in this community. So, too late. Now just give me the functionality to run Maelstrom this week if I want to, without wasting my paid game time staring at Empire reflections, and I'll be happy. I already know who I'll be grouped with - good people and a few jerks. No different than PUGs as it is in game right now. I haven't seen it but one time on my server and that was during EGA. I haven't run with anyone who hasn't been polite and friendly yet, Guild or PuG. If this is already happening that much, maybe it just hasn't hit my server yet and I hope it doesn't. But generally speaking everyone who saw what it did in warcraft knows what is coming if it is made Cross-Server. No it did not ruin warcraft all by itself, but it did make a large contribution to it. I'd rather not see things get worse here. So far on my server things have really been great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyanzor Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because this isn't world of nerfedcraft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because this isn't world of nerfedcraft.... Ouch, i think you nailed it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPAWS Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 they dont have an auto reply tool on the forums so i dont want to spend my time typing a reply the forums should already do this for me . :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiralyon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because this isn't world of nerfedcraft.... I like your answer my friend. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) to be perfectly honest, going back through this thread im only seeing, at most 10 different posters that want a LFD tool. I agree. There appears to be very few people, less than it seems, that wants (or are at least fighting for) a cross-server LFD tool. Maybe this game drew in a different crowd and these are just the vocal minority? Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It's wasted development time that could have been used on things that I actually care about.that's not a reason to not have it. That's part of (not not all of) a reason that you think it should be prioritized lower than certain other things; you left out most of the actual reason part (ie, the other things you think are higher priority). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I agree. There appears to be very few people, less than it seems, that wants (or are at least fighting for) a cross-server LFD tool. Maybe this game drew in a different crowd and these are just the vocal minority? God I hope so... The real concern for me will be the vocal minority DOES start having their QQ demands met. Once BW set a precedent for this course of action...it is only a matter of time before we have a REAL WoW clone on our hands Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Don't try to pretend you're any different. You don't care about any one else's game experience but your own. Certainly I do. that's why I'm in favor of adding stuff like an lfg tool. I can see that there are people who want it, and I think their desire to have it is sufficient for them to ask for it, and someone else's desire for them to not have it isn't a legitimate argument against it. Ontopic: here's my reason, the sooner I get burnt out on doing instances the sooner I unsub to the game. Running with LFG pugs is the easiest way to get burnt out on Flashpoints, just like how we all get burnt out playing PVP with AFK bots and the like.Right now, getting groups is so painfully slow that I'm not even bothering to run them. So I see "spending some time running them, and maybe getting burnt out on them" as less bad than "just don't bother playing the toon because there's nothing that I can do in a reasonable amount of time (ie, < 4 hours)" Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiralyon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 God I hope so... The real concern for me will be the vocal minority DOES start having their QQ demands met. Once BW set a precedent for this course of action...it is only a matter of time before we have a REAL WoW clone on our hands Driz Ack.... don't say it. It might happen then. I'm already paid up for six months, I don't want to have to leave because this is turning into a WoW clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because I said so! -God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I already posted my view points on a cross-server LFD tool and why I believe that it shouldn't be implemented. It was disregarded by the LFD-lovers who, obviously, are unable to face logic and realize what the negative effects will be down the road, at any rate, it's there on page 35. I will stop posting in this thread as it's apparent to me that people will remain ignorant of the cold, hard truth and blind to any other viewpoint that actually presents logic. I will now link a video in which Stephen Fry is talking about the current age of laziness that this world is getting into (the entire clip is centered around philosophy, but he talks of the world as a whole when it comes to this), it begins around 2 minutes and 40 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqyXgvvzJQM "We live in an age, in which, hard work is, if not actively deprecated or denigrated, it is run away from or ignored. People frown at you and say "well that's a bit dull and stupid, why can't we just short-circuit it?"" Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 But generally speaking everyone who saw what it did in warcraft knows what is coming if it is made Cross-Server. I saw what it did to warcraft. It totally revitalized low level isntances; people went from leveling to the level cap without ever running a dungeon to running them, overnight. Some people did them here and there, and some people even chain ran them for several levels at a time.It got people that were sitting at the level cap out of dalaran; they didn't have to sit in town to do the daily heroic (or daily regular if they were new to the level cap) so you started seeing people out at the daily quest hubs again. That's pretty much all the effect it had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBull Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1077901-What-truly-is-happening-with-this-game.. The primary reason why WoW is now loosing so many subscribers: because the social part of the game has been almost destroyed with Cataclysm. Allow me to explain: The Social Side The reason why people kept playing and kept coming back to WoW when the content got stale was because of the people, the community, and the friends. What started about midway through WotLK and which has been going on for years now is that the social side of WoW, the ability to meet random people, get to know them, maybe even befriend them, has become more and more difficult. The main casual PvE and PvP content has become cross-server in the name of convenience and shorter queue times, and everything related to questing has become so easy that you'll never need the help of other people: When you want to do a dungeon you either do it with people you already know or with complete and utter strangers that you'll never see again, even if you wanted to. When you want to do a battleground you either do it with people you know or with complete and utter strangers you'll never see again, even if you wanted to. When you want to do daily quests you do it by yourself because every single one of them is solo-able, and in many cases bringing friends along penalizes you. When you level up a new alt you do it by yourself because every single one of the quests from from 1-85 is solo-able and because phasing has made helping other players with quests impossible. There are no more group or elite quests. This goes for almost all content in WoW now: The content that you actually need other people to play with is designed in such a way that you will be playing with or against people that you'll never ever be able to play with again, even if you wanted to. The Dungeon Finder means that all dungeons and heroic you do is either done with guildies or with complete random strangers that you'll never see again. Phasing means that simply meeting people out in the world has become extremely difficult. It would not be unusual for you to not see a single other person in whichever zone you level in. Sandbox games are definitely more social simply because of the way they're designed. The dependance on user created content, the whole idea of giving players the tools and then unleashing them in the sandbox is the basis of good community and a social game. I never got around to play SWG, but having played EVE for years it's pretty obvious that in a sandbox game like EVE where player interactions are what the drives the game forward, a larger and more open community appears. But yes WoW was a very social game. Although undoubtedly a themepark game when it was first released it was no where close to being at the extreme end of the Themepark------Sandbox spectrum as it is today. For a good community to spring up and prosper you need to force people to have to work together and to depend upon each other. In original WoW in most aspects of the game you actually had to interact with other people for things to happen, you had to depend on other people, and you had to make an effort yourself and be responsible. Doing a dungeon required you to actually talk to other people to set up a group, to actually bother to move across the map to find the dungeon and to actually work together with your group to complete the dungeon, something that could take quite a while. People got to know each other, they talked to each other, they depended upon each other, and so friendships formed. People had their friendslists full of skilled and reliable people that knew how to play their class, were funny and friendly, and knew how to pull their weight. The same with battlegrounds. Long ago you only played with people from your realm. You fought with and against the same people every time, you actually got to know them; their weaknesses, their strengths, which enemies to look out for etc. Rivalries and friendships formed, celebrities emerged, skilled players that organized and lead the battleground to victory. In regards to questing. It used to be harder, there used to be a lot of quests where you actually had to depend upon each other. In most zones there were at least 2-5 group or elite quests that couldn't be completed unless you had a group, and so people simple asked in the local channel for help and in that way again friendships formed. There were no realm transfers, no factions transfers, no name changes, and so people got to really know each other. If you were an !@#$%^- the whole server would know and you wouldn't be invited to any groups. If you were an awesome player you would find yourself on a lot of people's friendslist and would be invited to do dungeons with them. And there are so many other examples of ways that people bonded and get to know each other. WoW was a really social game! Today you can't meet new people though dungeons, you can't meet them through battlegrounds, you can't meet them while questing, and you can't meet them while just standing around in the cities doing nothing.. There are no incentives for you to work with other people that are not in your guild, and there is no reason for you to even talk to them. The game in general has just become extremely lonely. That is the primary reason why people are now leaving in droves; because the thing that kept people playing when the game was stagnant and no new content has been added for a long time, was the community and the friends. I am very interested to think what everyone else thinks. This thread gets enough attention maybe blizzard will read it and do something before all is lost! Thank You. I just have to copy that and post in this forum. It is excellent post from Eruruu. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4015344575 If you agree, or think otherwise. Please post it on Usa and help to bump this thread as well to get more attention to people. If we can attract Blizzard, then its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) it's there on page 35.FYI: page size isn't hard coded. The thread is currently on page 11 for me. I will stop posting in this thread as it's apparent to me that people will remain ignorant of the cold, hard truth and blind to any other viewpoint that actually presents logic. I'm curious if you actually based your argument on logic, other than the fallacious kind. The arguments against lfd, especially the ones based on "the evils that it did to wow" are generally based on fallacious logic. Conflating correlation with causation is a big offender. Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Now just give me the functionality to run Maelstrom this week if I want to, without wasting my paid game time staring at Empire reflections, and I'll be happy. Let's see... You say you spend 2hrs looking for a group right? So that's $15/30 which is equal to 50 cents per day, 50/24 which is 2.08 cents per hr that's 4 cents for your 2hrs spent. Let's multiply that for the 30 days in the month, 4x30 is $1.20. Man you're definitely a high roller. Let's break out the complementary scotch for you. You're not the only person paying the "big bucks" here you know. Hell the people who are against a fully automated cross server LFG tool is not against an LFG tool. They just don't see the need for it to be cross server and instantly teleport you to the flashpoint. Hell they're willing to compromise however you don't care about other people. It's all about you and since the MMO genre is about interacting with other players and having to deal with them you may be playing the wrong genre of games. I would Western Union you your $1.20 so you wouldn't have to complain about spending ALL that money but the Western Union don't think that it's worth their time to send that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I already posted my view points on a cross-server LFD tool and why I believe that it shouldn't be implemented. It was disregarded by the LFD-lovers who, obviously, are unable to face logic and realize what the negative effects will be down the road, at any rate, it's there on page 35. I will stop posting in this thread as it's apparent to me that people will remain ignorant of the cold, hard truth and blind to any other viewpoint that actually presents logic. I will now link a video in which Stephen Fry is talking about the current age of laziness that this world is getting into (the entire clip is centered around philosophy, but he talks of the world as a whole when it comes to this), it begins around 2 minutes and 40 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqyXgvvzJQM "We live in an age, in which, hard work is, if not actively deprecated or denigrated, it is run away from or ignored. People frown at you and say "well that's a bit dull and stupid, why can't we just short-circuit it?"" First two paragraphs, I'm hoping you can at least see that your inability to accept an optional feature that would only effect you if you let it is about as far from logical as you can get to our eyes. And no having a famous person agree with you in a vague way doesn't make you magically right. but sure I'll get philosophical to and I'll do it far quicker. The human race is driven by innovation, change and efficiency. Those that fear change? that support stagnancy? they're what drag us down. Edited February 13, 2012 by darkcerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hmmm, guilds there must not be, join them you should! hmm? (and yeah, LFG did break WoW, we never meet so many lowlifes & dirtbags, and that was only rarely, when there was only 4 guildies wanting to do some HCs late at night. We'd grab a 5th & /sigh, some don't even say "Hi" on joining, the funniest 1s are the "Faster!" gang, we would slow down more!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisai Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What's the problem with the instant teleportation?? COME ON GUYS!! You already have it on PvP, just grow a pair!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) FYI: page size isn't hard coded. The thread is currently on page 11 for me. I'm curious if you actually based your argument on logic, other than the fallacious kind. The arguments against lfd, especially the ones based on "the evils that it did to wow" are generally based on fallacious logic. Conflating correlation with causation is a big offender. Maybe thats a question for the pro xsvr LFD crowd... The only arguements I have seen thus far are: "We just want it and it wont affect you if you don't use it" - This is not true, it will eventually affect everyone and force those that dont want it to use it or suffer the exact same problems that low pop server are experiencing now. "Community doesnt exist" - depends on how and who you play the game with. "This will give much needed diversity for PvE / PvP players" - It will give you no more diversity than you have in game already - the cost however will come at the expense of the community feel on a localised server basis and will also be felt on a more micro level with more ninja looting and general being a jerk that comes with the removal of any player accountability. So maybe look back at the pro sides fallacious logic before critiscising those that are genuinely thinking of the games greater good? In essence, the problem here is the pop on your own specific servers....if BW sorts this out then the need for xsvr LFD is negated...why demand a sledgehammer to crack a nut? Driz Edited February 13, 2012 by ImperialSun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hmmm, guilds there must not be, join them you should! hmm? (and yeah, LFG did break WoW, we never meet so many lowlifes & dirtbags, and that was only rarely, when there was only 4 guildies wanting to do some HCs late at night. We'd grab a 5th & /sigh, some don't even say "Hi" on joining, the funniest 1s are the "Faster!" gang, we would slow down more!). do you really consider those less social then yourself dirtbags and lowlifes? really? Would someone saying "hi" have made you all feel much better in your guild chat and or vent? The hypocrisy is almost physically painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Maybe thats a question for the pro xsvr LFD crowd... The only arguements I have seen thus far are: "We just want it and it wont affect you if you don't use it" - This is not true, it will eventually affect everyone and force those that dont want it to use it or suffer the exact same problems that low pop server are experiencing now. "Community doesnt exist" - depends on how and who you play the game with. "This will give much needed diversity for PvE / PvP players" - It will give you no more diversity than you have in game already - the cost however will come at the expense of the community feel on a localised server basis and will also be felt on a more micro level with more ninja looting and general being a jerk that comes with the removal of any player accountability. So maybe look back at the pro sides fallacious logic before critiscising those that are genuinely thinking of the games greater good? Driz Logically if you don't need the tool now you have a sound method of getting groups that you're happy with. If that method is endangered with a cross server tool then it is only because people prefer to use it over your method. So your argument becomes "Have fun my way or the high way, there can be no optional lfg tool" And if it surprises you that people argue against that. Then I don't know what to tell you. Keeping in mind that my belief and indeed experience of community in mmo's is found and developed within guilds if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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