No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[MrOrionQuest]

Cross-server is not needed. Your reputation on a server should count for something. Those saying a douche is still a douche even with a cross-server LFG: Sure, they will still be douches, but why would we WANT them to queue with other people not on your server? This will only allow them to carry on, and never feel the repercussions of it. You'd rather have those people earn they way back into other people's favor than have them ply their nuisance on others with impunity.

 

Those that say the community was dead long before LFG: You couldn't be more wrong. The only time this applies to you would be if you were the bad. If you weren't a bad person and you claim the community was as horrible as you describe, you are nothing more than a Wrath Baby. In BC, you had to join the LFG channel, if you weren't being ignored and you were able to show that you weren't a ninja or an idiot, you were granted a pretty quick invite. You say the community was dead, I say the community was policing itself and you were either one of the ignored or were plainly not worth your salt. Either way, your performance in a group would leave people wanting, and I'd rather you didn't get to spread your filth among people of other servers.

 

Those that say Ninjas never got blacklisted are very wrong. I've waited for hours before a raid started, because of bad apples, and wouldn't want it any other way. Because we had to wait on quality performers, I was able to not only gain among the only world firsts on many a raid for an American guild, we didn't have to bring any of the people that you so boldly claim still have an endgame. Blacklisting indeed happened, indeed worked, and indeed kept people playing as they should, lest they have virtually no endgame to speak of. I've seen it happen first hand, purposefully not invited people based on it, and certainly have no qualms of it happening again. Cross-server did indeed destroy communities and allowed people to be ******es without repercussion. The community was greater not having it, and I've seen it happen exactly as people claim it hasn't.

 

As you've no doubt noticed with the above paragraphs, I'm not sugar coating my dislike of a cross-server LFG. People are going to be even more of an ******e than they were if they had to watch their reputation on a server, because they know the anonymity will save them from any harm. If you think for once that people will still act the same without being acted upon, you have no first hand knowledge of it happening or it happened to you and you won't want it because you would rather continue with your wanton irrational behavior.

 

As stated by other posters, if you're on a low population server and can't find groups, you have greater issues than a cross-server LFG system could provide. Although you might not see it this way, you'd be better off having your server grow than using a tool that enables your already small population to behave unjustly towards your cross-server peers. This also does not gain you any reputation with existing guilds on your server because you'll most likely never be grouped with them. Even on the off-chance you were, the chances a guild from your server would recruit you aren't as good. By then they'd have already moved on to other more reliable sources of recruitment than notice you in a random Flashpoint.

[face_hindu]

Another wall of text from Mr Onion Quest

 

So don't use it then.

 

And I assure you that I will not suddenly become an inconsiderate person because there are no in-game consequences.

 

If murder suddenly became legal, I wouldn't do that, either.

 

Do you have any valid points, Mr "Server First" Onion Man?

[Mordalus]

all i gotta say is

 

don't like it?

 

don't use it!

[MalignX]

Cross-server is not needed. Your reputation on a server should count for something. Those saying a douche is still a douche even with a cross-server LFG: Sure, they will still be douches, but why would we WANT them to queue with other people not on your server? This will only allow them to carry on, and never feel the repercussions of it. You'd rather have those people earn they way back into other people's favor than have them ply their nuisance on others with impunity.

 

This is a control issue on your part. If someone being rude, ninja'ing an item, or not playing their class to your standards, ruins your day in any meaningful way; it's a you problem not a them problem. "Earning their way back into other people's favor" is absolutely asinine. /Ignore for the win. Reputation should only count among your guild. What you think of Player A should absolutely not have any meaningful effect on thier ability to play a game they paid for. Sorry

 

Those that say the community was dead long before LFG: You couldn't be more wrong. The only time this applies to you would be if you were the bad. If you weren't a bad person and you claim the community was as horrible as you describe, you are nothing more than a Wrath Baby. In BC, you had to join the LFG channel, if you weren't being ignored and you were able to show that you weren't a ninja or an idiot, you were granted a pretty quick invite. You say the community was dead, I say the community was policing itself and you were either one of the ignored or were plainly not worth your salt. Either way, your performance in a group would leave people wanting, and I'd rather you didn't get to spread your filth among people of other servers.

 

Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a LFG tool with people like you available. "Community" is what you make it, and so far I'd like to be as far away from any community you're apart of, were your opinion on me "being worth my salt" or "spreading my filfth", has any impact on me playing video game.

 

Those that say Ninjas never got blacklisted are very wrong. I've waited for hours before a raid started, because of bad apples, and wouldn't want it any other way. Because we had to wait on quality performers, I was able to not only gain among the only world firsts on many a raid for an American guild, we didn't have to bring any of the people that you so boldly claim still have an endgame. Blacklisting indeed happened, indeed worked, and indeed kept people playing as they should, lest they have virtually no endgame to speak of. I've seen it happen first hand, purposefully not invited people based on it, and certainly have no qualms of it happening again. Cross-server did indeed destroy communities and allowed people to be ******es without repercussion. The community was greater not having it, and I've seen it happen exactly as people claim it hasn't.

You mean Cross-Server destroyed your ability to punish other players in any meaningful way. Too bad.

 

As you've no doubt noticed with the above paragraphs, I'm not sugar coating my dislike of a cross-server LFG. People are going to be even more of an ******e than they were if they had to watch their reputation on a server, because they know the anonymity will save them from any harm. If you think for once that people will still act the same without being acted upon, you have no first hand knowledge of it happening or it happened to you and you won't want it because you would rather continue with your wanton irrational behavior.

 

I had tons of great experiences in Random Dungeon Finder. But I am sure your opinion on this matter is far more correct, because you have many "World Firsts" under your belt.

 

As stated by other posters, if you're on a low population server and can't find groups, you have greater issues than a cross-server LFG system could provide. Although you might not see it this way, you'd be better off having your server grow than using a tool that enables your already small population to behave unjustly towards your cross-server peers. This also does not gain you any reputation with existing guilds on your server because you'll most likely never be grouped with them. Even on the off-chance you were, the chances a guild from your server would recruit you aren't as good. By then they'd have already moved on to other more reliable sources of recruitment than notice you in a random Flashpoint.

 

Guilds should be 100% optional for running content, not mandatory. You keep to playing within your Guild of Awesomeness. The rest of us will use the LFG tool far far far awat from you.

 

Glad you feel so passionately about it though. Seriously.

[MrOrionQuest]

So don't use it then.

 

And I assure you that I will not suddenly become an inconsiderate person because there are no in-game consequences.

 

If murder suddenly became legal, I wouldn't do that, either.

 

Do you have any valid points, Mr "Server First" Onion Man?

 

Unfortunately, people that purposefully spell another person's name incorrectly discredit themselves. Fortunately for you, you didn't have much to say.

 

Oh and murder isn't illegal, getting caught is. In case you were wondering, communities make laws, but I suppose you didn't put much thought into that one.

 

I'd also like to point out that, although I indeed participated in server firsts, I also got world firsts, which coincidentally would happen together on plenty of occasions.

[Siorac]

Oh and murder isn't illegal, getting caught is.

 

Wait... what? Was that supposed to be a joke or something?

[Silarr]

I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me.

 

While I agree on the reputation part etc that some people mentioned, it's a pain in the *** when you are playing on a server with 150 people max. scattered over different levels at any given time.

 

LFG is an elegant way to fix the dropping population and make people on low pop servers happy without destroying their community with merges or free transfers.

WoW does have many low pop servers, but noone cares because everyone can still do any given hc or pug raid without having to wait for the other 4-24, same level, characters to login so he can group up and he can still enjoy his time in his guild.

 

PvP is going to be promoted by this changes too. As it is now I know anyone who does pvp in my server by his name. I know deppending on who is in my group how the game will end. That isn't because I am too social or anything, but because there are only a couple of players doing pvp (Republic).

 

In the end if no one of the good players is around (me beeing a healer, that needs good dps (at least high level players) to be utilized to the max), I end up quitting of doing PvP until they decide to log in; which then gives us a fair change to compete.

 

A LFG too would greatly improve my experience at least because it would give me a feeling of not knowing what's going to happen and not the depressions I get when I see all the 12lvl players in my team and the 49level player on imps side..

 

I for myself enjoy my server and having lived through countless merges, I know I don't want one in this game. That would destroy the community imho..

[face_hindu]

Unfortunately, people that purposefully spell another person's name incorrectly discredit themselves. Fortunately for you, you didn't have much to say.

 

Oh and murder isn't illegal, getting caught is. In case you were wondering, communities make laws, but I suppose you didn't put much thought into that one.

 

I'd also like to point out that, although I indeed participated in server firsts, I also got world firsts, which coincidentally would happen together on plenty of occasions.

 

Ah, but I did have something to say. Don't like it? Don't use it.

 

If you still feel the need to argue against it, I question your motivation. Are you unhappy that this isn't a hardcore MMO? Are you unhappy that someday, people from WoW will come here and get the same gear you have, with less work and time investment? What is it that's really bothering you, Onion Man?

[Turkman]

It's difficult to explain. Those of us that experienced its implementation in WoW probably make up the bulk of those not wanting it here. There are plenty of threads here and over at WoW that have discussed it to death. My quick take, it promotes ***-hatery and the killing of the zones. 99% of the WoW population are in the two faction capital cities, the zones are a ghost town.

 

But how is that different here? 99% of the lvl 50 players are standing in the fleet spamming LFG, doing warzones, waiting etc.

The zones are only not deserted now, because the game is still young and new people start playing or new alts are being made. Once the game matures and the majority of the playerbase is at lvl 50 all the zones except the ones with lvl 50 dailies will be mostly deserted except for the occasional twinker.

 

On the contrary: I think that a lfd tool enhances the usage of other zones, because you actually are able to look for a group while you are out in the world doing whatever else you like. With the system we have now everybody who wants to do a flashpoint has to be on the fleet and wait there idle until his group is full. And because you are kicked out of the group, when you join a warzone (something that didn't happen in WoW for example) you can really do nothing except maybe trading while you're forming a group.

 

I'm not much of a socialiser in such games. That's just not the part I like about MMOs. I play MMOs to be able to kill real opponents in pvp or team up with others against ****** bosses or to kill real opponents .

 

I have a small pool of real life friends I normally do this group content with.

But as this pool is fairly small (and, sadly, some have already quit due to the lack of a properly working lfg-tool (among other reasons) )we often don't have enough people in the required level range or of the required spec etc. to form a group. It's better here because you need one person less than in WoW, but it still is a pain to find a group spamming lfg and asking the acquaintances you've made while leveling or instancing.

 

So for me and my friends a dungeonfinder á la WoW would be a perfect enhancement to our grouping experience. We'd just group up together, join a queue and look for that 1-2 tank/healer/dd that are still missing. As I'm on a relatively populated server a cross-server tool wouldn't be required for me, but I have also read that there are a lot of quite deserted servers out there that would greatly benefit from cross-server grouping.

 

I'm also aware that the playing experience of those, who really like MMOs for their socialising part and for getting to know random strangers during their grouping experiences might deteriorate with a cross server dungeonfinder might . But I also think that these players are in the minority nowadays and that the majority of the players just want to log on and kill stuff. At least that's my experience.

 

I've been in plenty of flashpoints in SwTor now and I don't find them more or less socialising than WoW instances I joined via dungeonfinder. If anybody talks anything, it's mostly something like: "wait a second, phone rings./got to pee/what's the strat for this boss?"

Other than "hi" and "bye" nothing is talked during the whole instance, unless something (usually something bad, due to someone not having enough time or not knowing the strategy) happens.

That's exactly the same thing I've encountered while grouping via the dungeon-finder in WoW. So, for me there really is no difference between the two games in that aspect other than in SWTOR you have to work harder to form a group, which I don't think to be a good thing.

 

I understand those of you who miss the "good old times" of their first MMOs when everything was different and you were, supposedly, younger.

 

But I also think that now another generation of players has taken over the MMO-market (I call it the diablo-generation ) and these players like to group with their clan/rl-friends and when these are not available they want an easy and quick way to get into group-content and endlessly repeat the same instances until they have the gear they desire. They normally play a lot of video games parallel and therefore everything has to go quickly because there might be another game of HON, COD, etc. scheduled.

 

I don't say that every player is so, but in my peer group most players play that way. And when you have to wait for an hour to play and literally can't do anything while waiting that's not fun, I think most will agree on this.

 

And I think if Bioware wants to stay/become strong in this market they need to cater to these types of players that have a shorter attention span than earlier generations of MMO-players and may or may not be spoiled by WoW. Because if they don't they will lose paying customers in the long run.

They might lose some others if they implement cross server lfd-tools, but I think these might not be as many. Vocal maybe, but I'm almost 100% sure they are a dwindling minority. Be that sad, or not.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Turkman

[Grecanis]

Its not a good thing when they have to dumdown the content to accommodate the people useing the tool.

 

Have a look at at patch 4.3 and see what looking for group and looking for raid have done to that game.

 

Also its not a fact having LFG/LFR in a mmorpg is a good thing in trying to maintain customers and grow if wow or rift are anything to go by its the opposite. How many subs have both of them lost this year?

 

I would argue that the dumbing down of content prior to and accompanying Dungeon finders implimentation did more to ruin the game than the tool itself did.

 

I personally stopped playing shortly after cata because it had become too linear and "cookie cutter". I actually enjoyed that in place of my normal playstyle, that the changes had killed, ..I was able to run content in a more casual and consistent fashion.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Grecanis

[jclackey]

easiest way to placate the hardcore purists is to remove a few servers from the LFG system and give them a free character transfer, give them their own forum as well in fact.

[SBite]

Cross-server is not needed. Your reputation on a server should count for something. Those saying a douche is still a douche even with a cross-server LFG: Sure, they will still be douches, but why would we WANT them to queue with other people not on your server? This will only allow them to carry on, and never feel the repercussions of it. You'd rather have those people earn they way back into other people's favor than have them ply their nuisance on others with impunity.

 

This is a control issue on your part. If someone being rude, ninja'ing an item, or not playing their class to your standards, ruins your day in any meaningful way; it's a you problem not a them problem. "Earning their way back into other people's favor" is absolutely asinine. /Ignore for the win. Reputation should only count among your guild. What you think of Player A should absolutely not have any meaningful effect on thier ability to play a game they paid for. Sorry

 

...

...

 

As stated by other posters, if you're on a low population server and can't find groups, you have greater issues than a cross-server LFG system could provide. Although you might not see it this way, you'd be better off having your server grow than using a tool that enables your already small population to behave unjustly towards your cross-server peers. This also does not gain you any reputation with existing guilds on your server because you'll most likely never be grouped with them. Even on the off-chance you were, the chances a guild from your server would recruit you aren't as good. By then they'd have already moved on to other more reliable sources of recruitment than notice you in a random Flashpoint.

 

Guilds should be 100% optional for running content, not mandatory. You keep to playing within your Guild of Awesomeness. The rest of us will use the LFG tool far far far awat from you.

 

So the problem with ninjaing lies in everyone else in the party except in the ninja? Just "great", what more I can say. And you say that reputation should only be meaningful inside guilds when later on you say that guilds should be totally optional? So according to you there must be no personal reputation in MMOs - again one of the "greatest" thoughts ever heard!

 

Never heard more pointless response(red) to a meaningful post. And it is just to show what kind of ppl want cross-server LFD and what they try to achieve or more precisely what they try to avoid. What a person is that can't ever find ppl that he can coop well with and on top of that want no repercussions and reputation at all in the game (outside of the so "meaningless, useless and optional" guilds if we believe him).

 

P.S. Sorry for my English, not a language I know and use a lot.

Edited February 12, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment/personal attack

[LostMyDroid]

couldn't find the "support this post" or what ever you call it. So im shamelessly posting just to agree.

 

Please don't make cross realm anything

[face_hindu]

Why are there 6 current threads about the same topic with the same posters?

 

BioWare, seriously: I volunteer my weekend nights to help you consolidate threads on the forums, because your people don't do a very good job of it. Respectfully.

[ispanolfw]

So the problem with ninjaing lies in everyone else in the party except in the ninja? Just "great", what more I can say. And you say that reputation should only be meaningful inside guilds when later on you say that guilds should be totally optional? So according to you there must be no personal reputation in MMOs - again one of the "greatest" thoughts ever heard!

 

Never heard more pointless response(red) to a meaningful post. And it is just to show what kind of ppl want cross-server LFD and what they try to achieve or more precisely what they try to avoid. What a person is that can't ever find ppl that he can coop well with and on top of that want no repercussions and reputation at all in the game (outside of the so "meaningless, useless and optional" guilds if we believe him).

 

P.S. Sorry for my English, not a language I know and use a lot.

 

Or the problem lies in those people for not accepting him rolling on it as valid, even though he's genuinely going to use the item. IE just because YOU think he's a "ninja" doesn't actually make him one.

Edited February 12, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude - quote

[face_hindu]

Or the problem lies in those people for not accepting him rolling on it as valid, even though he's genuinely going to use the item. IE just because YOU think he's a "ninja" doesn't actually make him one.

 

Ahh, the lovely sound of a thread being completely derailed.

[MalignX]

So the problem with ninjaing lies in everyone else in the party except in the ninja? Just "great", what more I can say. And you say that reputation should only be meaningful inside guilds when later on you say that guilds should be totally optional? So according to you there must be no personal reputation in MMOs - again one of the "greatest" thoughts ever heard!

 

The problem with "ninja'ing" lies in the Loot system, not the LFG tool. Yes reputation should only be meaningful in guilds, and yes guilds should be totally optional. ESPECIALLY if you're equating "Rep" with "Community Policing" and the ability to "punish" other players for behavior you don't like. If you have a "rep" on MMO then it only matters to you and the people paying attention to you. I know you're going to be shocked to find there are plenty of people that play MMO and "server reputation" never crosses their mind.

 

Never heard more pointless response(red) to a meaningful post. And it is just to show what kind of ppl want cross-server LFD and what they try to achieve or more precisely what they try to avoid. What a person is that can't ever find ppl that he can coop well with and on top of that want no repercussions and reputation at all in the game (outside of the so "meaningless, useless and optional" guilds if we believe him).

 

I've read a more useless post, see above.

 

P.S. Sorry for my English, not a language I know and use a lot.

 

Sorry my opinions bother you so much. I know you're going to be completely shocked to find I couldn't care less. I even still want a Cross-Server LFG tool. Woooah.

 

Edit: If I used any words there you can't understand, please feel free to ask for clarification. Wouldn't want you to be unlcear on anything before you spout off again.

Edited February 12, 2012 by MalignX

[ispanolfw]

Ahh, the lovely sound of a thread being completely derailed.

 

What can I say, I like to point out flaws in people's arguments. It brings me joy. And it's semi related at least in this case.

 

And I point them out not only for that reason. I WANT people to point out real flaws in anything I argue for or against, I may have missed something. But emotional/opinionated and flawed arguments don't help anyone.

Edited February 12, 2012 by ispanolfw

[agien]

Too many pages to read them all so just going to throw in my opinion...

 

I have played FFXI with no cross server Qing and WoW with it.

 

I found the community was 100x better with no cross server LFG.

 

Server only LFG helps you meet members of your server.

Leveling, Flashpoints, PvP, just doing events that require groups you come across a lot of people you may have never taken notice of. Some good and some bad.. You make friends and build bridges with the community. It is what in my opinion a MMO is all about. You just can't do that cross server. Chances are high you will never see the person again and nobody is going to bother talking or really being personable for that reason.

 

 

Personal and Guild reputation.

In a server only environment your reputation is very very important. And the way you act reflects not only on you but on your guild. This is a big deal server only because people see you over and over and get to know who is who in the community. Guilds are more willing to work with other guilds if they have a good reputation. People find comfort when they see a guild name or just specific people grouped with them. Server only LFG strengthens groups and bonds between people as they run into them over and over.

A great example is my guild in PvP. For a wile a group of 4 of us were Qing often trying to finish our last 10 levels to Battle Master. We often heard comments such as "YES! <guild name> is here" or "oooo we have <so and so>" this is going to be a good match. We have had to fill open slots for OPs and people are so much more willing to come if you have a good rep.

 

So why is this a big deal? Cross server Qing just promotes anti-social behavior. There is no feeling of belonging. There is no real recognizing people it just becomes a blur. In WoW you Qed into a BG or dungeon everybody did his or her own thing. Nobody cared if you won or lost. Nobody bothered to get to know team mates and form good strong bonds. Cross server Qing just turns into a big boring anti-social grind full of me me me on everything because heck you don't know them you wont see them again so why give a darn?

 

After leaving FFXI which had such an amazing and strong community (left because i had been on the game for years and just ran out of things to keep me interested) I hated the WoW community. Everybody in it for his or her self, no real way to get to know people outside of a guild you joined, I felt no real pride in my server's faction, it was painful to deal with people because they knew they wouldn't see you again..

 

Now FFXI was not an enormous game subscription wise but you really had no problem finding people to level with or do events with.

 

Why?

Because it had an amazing LFG/search system that was well implemented and it did not matter where you were people easily found you and knew what you were looking to join for.

 

The problems people are having at the moment can be fixed with 2 things

1) a better LFG/Search system to see everybody no matter where you are on the server not just in a zone and information about the person being looked at

2) Combined small servers with play times that compliment each other to fix the issue of not enough people. SW:ToR does not need 120491820 servers with 100 people on them put them together.

 

I enjoy the game with no cross server Qing it gives me a feeling of pride in my faction (Republic) when we band together to overcome odds against the Imps, I meet people through WZ or flashpoints and when I see them again we talk and some times join up to do things. I have a rep with my enemies and allies that makes things fun. I feel connected in this game.

 

I understand the more casual people who play need fast ways to get into things. That can be just as easily done with a good base of friends and a strong community as it can by just throwing people together.

 

Please do not bring in cross server Qing.

 

These are my feelings on the issue. I do not speak for more then myself. I do not plan to argue back and forth with people who may not agree with my opinion as it is an opinion.

[Sky_walkerPL]

couldn't find the "support this post" or what ever you call it. So im shamelessly posting just to agree.

 

Please don't make cross realm anything

 

When you post a replay below the text input box you have "Additional Options" - there you should see post rating - pick 5 stars

That's one of decent ways to support topic, although keep in mind that you need to make a post anyway for it to be saved.

[Sky_walkerPL]

By the way:

Support the idea of a poll before adding cross-server tools into the game.

This way everyone will have a fair chance to voice their opinion.

[Darkulous]

Anti-Xservers - "It ruins the community!" (opinion)

 

Pro-Xservers - "You experience more content in a much shorter time period" (FACT)

 

 

Edit: If people don't want conveniance, I suggest they leave TOR now and find a game where the developer doesn't care about making money.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Darkulous

[lorelthesecond]

easiest way to placate the hardcore purists is to remove a few servers from the LFG system and give them a free character transfer, give them their own forum as well in fact.

 

I know you were being sarcastic but I think thats a good idea.

 

I would love play on one of them servers.

[MUFanatic]

I welcome convenience. I just don't welcome the cross server aspect of the tool. It should remain for that server. What happens is similar to a mob mentality. You may not be a jerk if it was a server wide thing but when you are essentially anonymous you are more likely to do things that you wouldn't normally do

[Gittyup]

Anti-Xservers - "It ruins the community!" (opinion)

 

Pro-Xservers - "You experience more content in a much shorter time period" (FACT)

 

 

Edit: If people don't want conveniance, I suggest they leave TOR now and find a game where the developer doesn't care about making money.

 

Fact-lfg FEELS needed because some servers/factions are low population

 

Fact-after lfg those servers/factions will still be low population.

 

lfg doesn't fix the actual problem, only hides it from forum lurkers just waiting to say tor is dying if they merge servers. Merging servers can solve faction imbalances/low pops at the same time and remove the need for a tool. For those saying you don't have to use it, take a look at other games with it. You sure don't have to use it just like you don't have to use pvp gear to pvp, but sooner or later enough will use that those that don't will be left with only the illusion of choice.

 

Make the poll in-game or another way it will have the best chance of being answered by the highest number of people, but add more option than just do you want lfg yes/no. Make options for other solutions to the same problem. Free xfers/server merges ect.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gittyup