Dual-spec Coming and no changing advanced classes!

[darkcerb]

I'm already playing the "wait and see" game with my subscription (I paid for 3 months, and currently will probably not resub, but I'm still on the fence). If they implemented dual-AC or AC-respecs, I would unsub so quick it would make your head spin.

 

And before you ask or accuse or hate, I don't have a logical and objective reason for it. I believe that there are certain decisions that you should have to live with during your character's lifetime, and AC is one of them.

 

No one would force you to use the feature, I'm all for options for players, the more control you have over your character the better.

 

Wanting others not to even have the option, wanting them to enjoy your way or the high way is more then a little selfish.

 

And although I'm all for having your say threatening to cancel your sub always comes across as petulant.

[Reaperchris]

Let's copy WoW...but we'll be subtle...we'll introduce things that have proven to be popular over a long period of time to mask the fact that we are a blatant copy that has failed its task at copying.

 

Fun fact: 90% of WoW's Material was stolen from another MMO. So when you try to be a T Roll be more effective through knowledge.

[darkcerb]

The users can demand all they want

 

Yes they can, and will.

 

Do I really need to bring up blizzards stance on character re-customization and transfers from pve to pvp servers? Those were UN-thinkable to them too.

 

I realize they're different company's but you're being naive if you continue to think "No current plans" means it'll never happen and talking about it is useless.

[AzKnc]

I'm already playing the "wait and see" game with my subscription (I paid for 3 months, and currently will probably not resub, but I'm still on the fence). If they implemented dual-AC or AC-respecs, I would unsub so quick it would make your head spin.

 

And before you ask or accuse or hate, I don't have a logical and objective reason for it. I believe that there are certain decisions that you should have to live with during your character's lifetime, and AC is one of them.

 

Don't worry, nobody arguing against dual ac has actually got any tangible reasons, i'm used to it.

At least you know it and admit it, instead of pretending like most of them do.

[Greyfeld]

No one would force you to use the feature, I'm all for options for players, the more control you have over your character the better.

 

Wanting others not to even have the option, wanting them to enjoy your way or the high way is more then a little selfish.

 

Alternatively, ignoring the effect such a change would have on the metagame similarly forces me (and those who feel the same way I do) to engage in the feature just because you want it, which is equally selfish.

 

There is a line drawn in the sand where passing it renders options meaningless. If you can freely switch between classes (let's not get into the debate of whether or not ACs are the same as classes, because that's not relevant right now), the choice of class becomes pointless. There's no weight behind the decision, because you can change it at any time, with no drawbacks for doing so.

 

And although I'm all for having your say threatening to cancel your sub always comes across as petulant.

 

You can think whatever you want. Unlike the majority of the unwashed masses, when I say "I'll quit," I'm not just blowing smoke from my ***. I'm making the statement, because I feel strongly enough about it to really quit in such a situation.

[AzKnc]

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

 

The developers are going to add dual-spec, and have no intention of adding AC respec. This stance has not changed since the last time they made these exact same statements some 2-3 months ago. The users can demand all they want, but if there's no change in the developer's stance on the content, then there's no reason to waste Q&A space answering the question.

 

Actually if you go as far back as 3 months, pre release talk, or some beta stages, ac switching was an option.

 

It doesn't matter what their stance is, there's still LOADS of people who want the feature, loads more than those who don't actually. Annoying devs about it isn't wasted time.

 

All they said is basically that for now they feel arrognat and confident enough that not having it isn't going to impact their subscription numbers so they don't care. Give it time and things will change, the novelty of rolling 100 chars (and paying for it like fools) will expire and people will cry out for convenience instead.

Edited February 11, 2012 by AzKnc

[Greyfeld]

Actually if you go as far back as 3 months, pre release talk, or some beta stages, ac switching was an option.

 

It doesn't matter what their stance is, there's still LOADS of people who want the feature, loads more than those who don't actually. Annoying devs about it isn't wasted time.

 

All they said is basically that for now they feel arrognat and confident enough that not having it isn't going to impact their subscription numbers so they don't care. Give it time and things will change, the novelty of rolling 100 chars (and paying for it like fools) will expire and people will cry out for convenience instead.

 

Unless you have hard numbers, I have to call shenanigans. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count as "more than those who don't."

[gurugeorge]

No, If you want change you ask for it, demand it you make yourself heard. Especially if your paying for the product and you genuinely enjoy it.

 

People might hate you for it and the dev's might not like it but that's how games are improved, user input.

 

No actually it's generally how games get crap over time. Games aren't quite like your archetypal widget, they're somewhere inbetween widgets and works of art.

 

But even with widgets, what's better as a measure than what people vocally cry for or fill in forms about in focus groups, or whine about in forums, is what people actually shell out for.

 

Be careful what you wish for and all that.

 

Having said that, of course developeres like to accommodate peoples' vocal wishes - so long as they don't have long term detrimental effects on the game.

[AzKnc]

Fun fact: 90% of WoW's Material was stolen from another MMO. So when you try to be a T Roll be more effective through knowledge.

 

Fun fact, wow actually released in a superior state compared to the game you claim it has copied. And has been superior to everything else since.

 

Swtor released as a game basically identical to wow in most aspects (everything that doesn't include voice acting/quests) while also failing miserably at delivering basically ALL the functionality/quality of life features wow enjoys, so the guy who said swtor failed at copying is right.

 

You can't copy something and forget to include all the mandatory stuff that make the source material work, it's just dumb.

[AzKnc]

Unless you have hard numbers, I have to call shenanigans. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count as "more than those who don't."

 

Yes i have actual numbers from several surveys.

 

I also have common sense, doesn't take a phd to know that casuals ARE the majority of players these days and that they're all for convenience and quality of life improvements, sadly, being casual, the majority of them don't even give a crap about forums and discussions like these, reason why it MAY look like they aren't the majority. But they are.

 

And despite the above, PRO ac switching is still winning in every poll, go figure.

Edited February 11, 2012 by AzKnc

[Dimedius]

Everybody that is saying it's a bad idea, we don't need it because we have companions etc. I'm agreeing to disagree with you. You don't have to participate in dual speccing but please understand that some of us have an actual need for them.

 

For the past couple weeks since I hit lvl 50, I have been doing dailies and pvp'ing. Now for pvp I use the firebug (BH) tree and for my dailies the arsenal. Prior to this week I had no need to change back and forth because I was pretty happy with arsenal.

 

That changed this week. I started using Firebug because the ability to stay mobile and kite. I still do dailies and prefer to go arsenal because of overheating issues accompanied with firebug.

 

So my day is dailies first, respec to pvp after dailies. If guildies need help with quests or we're working on HM's I need to respec again. Yes money comes fairly easily in this game but I'd rather waste it on crafting or something else more meaningful and not me respeccing a few times a day.

 

Either that or have the cap reset to 0 every couple of days.

[darkcerb]

No actually it's generally how games get crap over time. Games aren't quite like your archetypal widget, they're somewhere inbetween widgets and works of art.

 

But even with widgets, what's better as a measure than what people vocally cry for or fill in forms about in focus groups, or whine about in forums, is what people actually shell out for.

 

Be careful what you wish for and all that.

 

Having said that, of course developeres like to accommodate peoples' vocal wishes - so long as they don't have long term detrimental effects on the game.

 

I'm sorry but an opinion made into article is still an opinion.

 

Is your point that his/her's is somehow more valid then mine?

 

I disagree with you.

 

I love the "Kind of" when stating "facts" to btw. I can see why you'd consider that article absolute truth.

Edited February 11, 2012 by darkcerb

[aznthecapn]

Actually if you go as far back as 3 months, pre release talk, or some beta stages, ac switching was an option.

 

Only because you couldn't get an accurate view of the ACs when you chose. They added AC preview and a way to look at skill trees to compensate and then took out switching. It wasn't there so you could switch whenever you want to - it was there to fill a void in beta testing. When the void was fixed, the took it out. It was never intended to be "more options".

 

It doesn't matter what their stance is, there's still LOADS of people who want the feature, loads more than those who don't actually. Annoying devs about it isn't wasted time.

 

Please, do tell me where you get your hard and fast numbers. I've been in the discussion threads about this since release and the response has been a resounding NO. The same 5-10 people arguing for it against the same 5-10 people arguing against it and hundreds of others making one off posts saying "no.'

 

All they said is basically that for now they feel arrognat and confident enough that not having it isn't going to impact their subscription numbers so they don't care. Give it time and things will change, the novelty of rolling 100 chars (and paying for it like fools) will expire and people will cry out for convenience instead.

 

Odd, it hasn't happened in any other MMO. Maybe because most people recognize that classes are different and it was entirely a semantic argument about what an "advanced class" is that started this to begin with. Had Bioware made you choose at level 1 instead of 10, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Yes i have actual numbers from several surveys.

 

I also have common sense, doesn't take a phd to know that casuals ARE the majority of players these days and that they're all for convenience and quality of life improvements, sadly, being casual, the majority of them don't even give a crap about forums and discussions like these, reason why it MAY look like they aren't the majority. But they are.

 

And despite the above, PRO ac switching is still winning in every poll, go figure.

 

I find your lack of evidence disturbing.

 

If you've been looking at the same threads I have in these forums, you'd know how small a minority you exist in. Notice the "dual spec" thread was always ranked four stars. AC switching was ranked two. More people don't want it. Until you can provide numbers to back up your statements with actual links, I'll continue to believe my personal experience over your made up information.

Edited February 11, 2012 by aznthecapn

[aznthecapn]

No one would force you to use the feature, I'm all for options for players, the more control you have over your character the better.

 

Wanting others not to even have the option, wanting them to enjoy your way or the high way is more then a little selfish.

 

Options that reduce the lifetime of a game are not good options to have.

 

AC changing does this, hence its a bad option.

[StealthStalker]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[AzKnc]

I'm sorry but an opinion made into article is still an opinion.

 

Is your point that his/her's is somehow more valid then mine?

 

I disagree with you.

 

I love the "Kind of" when stating "facts" to btw. I can see why you'd consider that article absolute truth.

 

Yeah, that article was idiotic at best, i wish i had never clicked on the link, my intelligence feels violated.

[darkcerb]

Options that reduce the lifetime of a game are not good options to have.

 

AC changing does this, hence its a bad option.

 

In your opinion.

 

I disagree I Think more options especially when re playability of a toon is concerned enhance an individuals play time and therefore on a larger scale enhance a games life.

[CharagonIGN]

Looks like all those "we don't need no stinkin dual-spec" BioDrones are pretty pissed off right about now. Sucks to be them. Of course, it always did.

 

Can't wait to have a proper PvP spec.

[aznthecapn]

In your opinion.

 

I disagree I Think more options especially when re playability of a toon is concerned enhance an individuals play time and therefore on a larger scale enhance a games life.

 

When you can do everything on character you finish faster and quit sooner. Spending time across several characters means more time playing. This is better for SWTOR and therefore better for those playing it. You can still replay without needing to change your AC.

[darkcerb]

When you can do everything on character you finish faster and quit sooner. Spending time across several characters means more time playing. This is better for SWTOR and therefore better for those playing it. You can still replay without needing to change your AC.

 

Agree to disagree then.

 

Because I just don't share your views of it, when blizzard released more customization options I ended up putting more time in then I would of in the game on my main.

 

Might be play-style related, but in my personal experience more options = more playtime from me.

 

And again you wouldn't be forced to make use of the feature in fact I don't think I would either but as I keep saying more options for players=better in my view.

Edited February 11, 2012 by darkcerb

[aznthecapn]

Agree to disagree then.

 

Because I just don't share your views of it, when blizzard released more customization options I ended up putting more time in then I would of in the game on my main.

 

Might be play-style related, but in my personal experience more options = more playtime from me.

 

Normally, yes. This changes when you can roll 2+ characters into one.

[AzKnc]

In your opinion.

 

I disagree I Think more options especially when re playability of a toon is concerned enhance an individuals play time and therefore on a larger scale enhance a games life.

 

Examples of why this is true

 

1) There are players who will simply quit cause they can't be arsed to reroll. Not my case but there are.

 

2) There are players who would prefer to do EVERYTHING their class possibly can without having to use 2 separate characters because it's non functional, gear/pvp/social/whatever progress isn't shared between the 2 chars, or they simply don't like to use more than one char.

 

A lot of replay value would be added for me if i could switch my characters' acs, while the replay value of players who like to actually roll multiple characters to play different acs (or even specs) would be untouched, as my option to switch ac wouldn't affect their choice of rolling whatever they want.

 

Unfortunately, those people not wanting ac switching, feel that in some way, ME having the option to do something, would affect the way THEY have to play the game.

 

Ultimately, not being able to switch ac, is NOT adding replay value, but more like FORCING (fake) replay value down people's throat, and i simply am NOT fine with that. Sure, in some twisted instant gratification money making kind of way it's going to be better at first for the devs, cause people are forced to pay them in order to play the other spec, but is that worth frustrating your customers with a retarded mechanic? Apparently bioware's answer is yes. And my answer is fine, go frustrate someone else cause i'm not up for your mockery of a system.

 

Not a single second of my play time has been spent rolling the same class to pick an opposite ac. And it never will be.

Edited February 11, 2012 by AzKnc

[darkcerb]

Normally, yes. This changes when you can roll 2+ characters into one.

 

You really wouldn't catch me re-rolling for a different AC. Re-rolling a toon on a high pop server has come close to killing my motivation to play the voice acting was cool the first time round...second not so much. couple that with the linearity of the leveling process.

 

There's no re-playability there. Maybe if they had separate storys I'd buy into your view but to me having to redo the exact same line of quests just to try out the other ac of your class is something I'd rather hammer a nail into my foot then do. Again just me though.

[CzaplaM]

All the people against dual-spec should just boycott it. Not talking about how they hate it would be better still!

[warultima]

I just love seeing how ironic is it when some people are against Quality of Life improvements.

 

Especially when it's completely optional... eg. they can click on the auto teleport when group enters an instance or they can click on decline and run there and meet with the group 20 minutes later.

 

Or dual spec, well its really not that different than simple respec. The only difference is player being punished for changing the way to play their toon. Idiot comments like "Respec is CHEAP ALREADY, 1 respec is like only 60 grand, all it takes is if you go 7 dailies and sell all trash items" just cracks me up. And people who likes to play their toon 3 different way will still have to pay the credit. Oh the naysayers please do NOT use this feature after its released.

 

Lastly I love hearing people say something like "you add in [insert a feature here] and the game will end up like WoW". Yea no game makers will ever want their games to be like WoW and makes them 84 billion dollars of net profit a year (Total accounting profit of WoW during year of 2008).

Edited February 11, 2012 by warultima