darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People don't try to learn new things. They just judge it and hate it and never go near it again without actually ever trying it. You know this, I know you do. All people, every single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) People don't try to learn new things. They just judge it and hate it and never go near it again without actually ever trying it. You know this, I know you do. Yes that's why humans haven't even discovered fire yet... Edited February 11, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenthiosLestaran Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 All people, every single one. That might be a bit on the extreme side Dark. I'd say a fair number react this way to tanking and healing in MMO's. I've seen it happen enough times to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenthiosLestaran Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yes that's why humans haven't even discovered fire yet... I'm extremely sure there were quite a few prehistoric humans that saw fire, and fled into the cold to die instead of trying to understand it. This is a bit off topic, but this is how our species evolved. Those that were afraid of change and couldn't adapt died off, leaving those who were to reproduce and survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That might be a bit on the extreme side Dark. I'd say a fair number react this way to tanking and healing in MMO's. I've seen it happen enough times to believe it. Your sarcasm detector must be broken friend. If you think that duel specc wont increase the number of tanks and healers available then your living in a dream world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It did help. Blizzard just felt the need to speed it along even more. Tanks and healers don't need to steal your DPS slot. That's just dumb. They can get groups whenever they want, as healers or tanks. That .. wasn't your argument, bright eyes. Tanks & heals don't magically appear because of dual specs. Part of that is because there's 2-3 times as many DPS slots but mostly because DPS is a significantly easier role. When LFG was added, DPS had 40 minute queues, every time out and well into Cata. There was massive QQ about this on Blizzard's forums at the time. The queue times got shorter when Blizz nerfed the hell out of heroic content, made the badge rewards ridiculously good, and added the extra goodie bag incentive. It had nothing to do with DPS players suddenly deciding to tank or heal just because of a second spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That .. wasn't your argument, bright eyes. Tanks & heals don't magically appear because of dual specs. Part of that is because there's 2-3 times as many DPS slots but mostly because DPS is a significantly easier role. When LFG was added, DPS had 40 minute queues, every time out and well into Cata. There was massive QQ about this on Blizzard's forums at the time. The queue times got shorter when Blizz nerfed the hell out of heroic content, made the badge rewards ridiculously good, and added the extra goodie bag incentive. It had nothing to do with DPS players suddenly deciding to tank or heal just because of a second spec. At this point we can't do anything but agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenthiosLestaran Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Your sarcasm detector must be broken friend. If you think that duel specc wont increase the number of tanks and healers available then your living in a dream world. I never said that. If you could please re-read and understand that I was referring to the idea that it will produce a lot of bad tanks and healers. Which it will, which leads into my point that some of them would not improve. My sarcasm detector is working just fine. Is your reading comprehension chip functioning? Edited February 11, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 At this point we can't do anything but agree to disagree. Yes, and I blame you. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I never said that. If you could please re-read and understand that I was referring to the idea that it will produce a lot of bad tanks and healers. Which it will, which leads into my point that some of them would not improve. My sarcasm detector is working just fine. Is your reading comprehension chip functioning? And? It'll also make available many good tanks and healers. You take the bad with the good, just like you do now. Maybe you should stop thinking so deeply about this. An evolution analogy, really? Is this life and death to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenthiosLestaran Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) And? It'll also make available many good tanks and healers. You take the bad with the good, just like you do now. Maybe you should stop thinking so deeply about this. An evolution analogy, really? Is this life and death to you? That wasn't a deep thought, it was just a logical example to use for what she had said about humans and making fire. If you feel that's deep well, then.. It's a perfectly on topic to what I was responding to analogy. Of course you take the bad with the good, when did I ever say we wouldn't? You seem to make up things that I never said, or inferred. Take a step back, and relax and read the words on the page. Don't dream up things they might mean, or see words that aren't there. Just read what's in the box, and that's exactly what is being said. I'm all for this feature by the way, it'll really help groups get together quicker. Also, LFD would be fantastic. It's like pulling teeth to set up a non guild HM run. Edited February 11, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maoxx Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That .. wasn't your argument, bright eyes. Tanks & heals don't magically appear because of dual specs. Part of that is because there's 2-3 times as many DPS slots but mostly because DPS is a significantly easier role. When LFG was added, DPS had 40 minute queues, every time out and well into Cata. There was massive QQ about this on Blizzard's forums at the time. The queue times got shorter when Blizz nerfed the hell out of heroic content, made the badge rewards ridiculously good, and added the extra goodie bag incentive. It had nothing to do with DPS players suddenly deciding to tank or heal just because of a second spec. You must have been on an underpopulated server or just had some weird luck, because in Wrath, when LFG was added, DPS queues were 10 - 15 mins at the max on my server. They didn't hit that 40 min mark until Blizz made drastic changes to tanks and healers in Cataclysm. A lot of people did not want to adapt to it and just rerolled DPS, thus getting you those massive queues at first. Your right in they did nerf the hell of the content and added the rewards to get tanks to even do LFG. But all this aside.... Dual specs is a good thing to have for the hybrid classes. Or even the guy that likes to do both PVP and PVE. It allows a player to have flexibility in raids rather than doing their main job 1/4 th of the time and doing their secondary gimply. (I'm sure others could come with other examples of player types that want it.) AC respecs are a no though, I do agree that in that regard. What you picked is what you picked and they do give you very adequate description (For Sith Wars and Jedi Knights at least) of what each AC is capable of, so unless you got a reading disorder or just mentally challenged then you know what your getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It will also create a lot more really REALLY bad tanks and healers. They were there before dual spec. One of two things will happen: A) They will learn. Or B) Heteful members of the community will drive them off when they try and use their secondary spec to run a dungeon and can't succeed hence they never use it in PuGs again. The problem will sort itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanC Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm a little bit torn about the whole lets change advance class issue. I understand why bioware wants to keep it the way it is from a mechanics standpoint on how some advance classes are completely different. It does suck though for sent/guardians and sith counterparts when they are basically the same class. On the other hand it does suck leveling up the same class when the story is the same way through regardless of advance class. Also, its not that hard to learn a class even if they implemented a change like this when there are guides telling you on how to play the class. I dont think it would be a big deal if they added it for a one time deal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzKnc Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Their ac stance is purely dictated by money making reasons, for now there's still people rolling all sort of ****, and paying game time to do so, give it a few months and it will be allowed. Either way, they won't be getting my money until then, it's that simple. 3 out of 4 in my sig have been confirmed, no surprise really since it's all things that makes sense to have in a 2012 title and there's valid reasons for them just as there's valid reasons for ac switching, regardless of what all the insane roleplayers and naysayers who can't even argue their points with valid arguments have to say about them. I'm confident bw will go 4/4 eventually, the only question is, will i still be interested into paying them when that happens or will i be playing that other mmo that is light years in front of them in every possible aspect that doesn't include a voice actor? Edited February 11, 2012 by AzKnc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Their ac stance is purely dictated by money making reasons, for now there's still people rolling all sort of ****, and paying game time to do so, give it a few months and it will be allowed. Either way, they won't be getting my money until then, it's that simple. The delusion is strong in this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The Devs have already said that they're going to implement dual spec, and that AC respeccing won't happen. The fact that a question slot was taken up with the Friday Q&A for something they've already commented on in the past is saddening on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artthen Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone! Several posts have been removed from this thread for straying off-topic. As you continue to participate in this thread, please remember to heed the Rules of Conduct. As a general reminder: Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively.Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them.Thanks for your cooperation! Edited February 11, 2012 by Artthen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The Devs have already said that they're going to implement dual spec, and that AC respeccing won't happen. The fact that a question slot was taken up with the Friday Q&A for something they've already commented on in the past is saddening on many levels. This wouldn't be the first time an mmo dev or any game dev had said those exact words "We do not currently have plans to..." It's not wise to take that sentence as a solemn oath that they will never do it. In fact that it's mentioned at all can be seen as promising for those that want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 This wouldn't be the first time an mmo dev or any game dev had said those exact words "We do not currently have plans to..." It's not wise to take that sentence as a solemn oath that they will never do it. In fact that it's mentioned at all can be seen as promising for those that want it. Which is an even stronger reason to not even bring it up in the first place, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The confirmation has just made my morning that little bit better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Which is an even stronger reason to not even bring it up in the first place, don't you think? No, If you want change you ask for it, demand it you make yourself heard. Especially if your paying for the product and you genuinely enjoy it. People might hate you for it and the dev's might not like it but that's how games are improved, user input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm confident bw will go 4/4 eventually, the only question is, will i still be interested into paying them when that happens or will i be playing that other mmo that is light years in front of them in every possible aspect that doesn't include a voice actor? I'm already playing the "wait and see" game with my subscription (I paid for 3 months, and currently will probably not resub, but I'm still on the fence). If they implemented dual-AC or AC-respecs, I would unsub so quick it would make your head spin. And before you ask or accuse or hate, I don't have a logical and objective reason for it. I believe that there are certain decisions that you should have to live with during your character's lifetime, and AC is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprytxx Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Let's copy WoW...but we'll be subtle...we'll introduce things that have proven to be popular over a long period of time to mask the fact that we are a blatant copy that has failed its task at copying. Only reason all games "copy wow" is because most want those features. Only way TOR "failed" at copying was by not having it all in at launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 No, If you want change you ask for it, demand it you make yourself heard. Especially if your paying for the product and you genuinely enjoy it. People might hate you for it and the dev's might not like it but that's how games are improved, user input. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. The developers are going to add dual-spec, and have no intention of adding AC respec. This stance has not changed since the last time they made these exact same statements some 2-3 months ago. The users can demand all they want, but if there's no change in the developer's stance on the content, then there's no reason to waste Q&A space answering the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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