Saviorofcamelot Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Certain classes Crit way too often and Crit for way too much. Instead of just nerfing the class into oblivion BioWare has decided to re-balance SURGE ratings. According to the newest patch notes... "Surge rating has been re-balanced. It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings, and its per point damage contribution has been reduced by approximately 10%." This may not fix the problems we are seeing but I think it is a interesting first step that will help tone down some of the insane burst damage that we are seeing certain classes pumping out (a 20% reduction may be necessary). I'm sure people will complain about this but I hope everyone will stop and think for a minute. BioWare can nerf SURGE ratings across the board or they can issue hardcore nerfs to individual classes. I think we can all agree that nerfing SURGE ratings is a more logical first step... WZ Win Fix "Fixed an issue causing players to not receive Warzone Win mission credit upon winning a Warzone match when the first player to enter the zone leaves the zone before the match concludes." I'm sure we can all agree that this is a much needed fix. I don't think any of us realized that the wins weren't counting because the initial player was leaving the WZ. I've won 4 or 5 matches in a day where none of them counted... Thanks for finally fixing this BioWare! Edited February 10, 2012 by Saviorofcamelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have no idea. It's not like I can test it for myself to see what the changes are like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Wow, this really pisses me off... I've been on here saying the problem with scoundrel burst wasn't that shoot first does a ton of damage, it's that it has a stupid crit multiplier, especially in high end pvp gear. I suggested that they just reduce our top end crit multiplier talents. Now, after they already nerfed scoundrel dps they're looking at crit multipliers... :S This shoot first ask questions later style of balancing pvp is annoying. Edited February 10, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 BAM have some knowledge https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkYvaEVpHsu-dG1kYjFkMUpTcU5MOHdGeGV4Mk1oT3c#gid=0 the nerf is annoying, but imo it is not as dramatic of a reduction as some of you are making it out to be. personally, i will drop from 87% to 76%. however, i am disappointed that bioware is messing with mechanics that did not appear broken or overpowered whilst there are other, way more important issues to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorofcamelot Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wow, this really pisses me off... I've been on here saying the problem with scoundrel burst wasn't that shoot first does a ton of damage, it's that it has a stupid crit multiplier, especially in high end pvp gear. I suggested that they just reduce our top end crit multiplier talents. Now, after they already nerfed scoundrel dps they're looking at crit multipliers... :S This shoot first ask questions later style of balancing pvp is annoying. I thought that as well but I think they decided to go this route based on player response/outrage. If they find that it is the multiplier that was causing the problem they will likely change those classes back but they aren't going to do that unless they are 100% sure it was related to the multipliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choboon Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 And yet again a PVP fix that hurts the PVE game. They should have concentrated on PVE only, which is what they are good at and left the PVP as some kind of arena fun thing. PVP with PVP stats and heavy itemizations simply never works well. For that you need a skill based system, where items / stats only marginally influence the outcome. Just my oppinion but i am sick of games trying to create a milk producing, egg laying woolen cow. Just concentrate on one thing and do that well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorofcamelot Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 And yet again a PVP fix that hurts the PVE game. They should have concentrated on PVE only, which is what they are good at and left the PVP as some kind of arena fun thing. I don't think 10% really hurts the PvE game all that much. I think it is universal that classes are doing higher DPS then BioWare wants them to be doing and the 10% is a way to pop in a global fix till they figure out something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copasetic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 My biggest issue with this is that right now, the only good Enhancements for my Juggernaut are Crit/Surge and Power/Surge with the latter being the best. With Surge being nerfed, what other Enhancements do I put in my gear? Power/Accuracy? Crit/Accuracy? Is Accuracy even useful at all in PvP? I read somewhere that going over 100% Accuracy might add Armor Penetration in PvP? Can anyone confirm/deny this? I'm just at a loss as to what Enhancements I should be getting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathiss Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The 5k healing medal will be impossible to hit at least for sorc/sages with the trauma debuff up after this change. The only way to get it will be by 'gaming' the system, which is completely silly. I'm sure <sarcasm> that BW has enough foresight to lower the 5k medal to 4.5k, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebubs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This will be the 3rd patch in a row where they have claimed to fix Warzone credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidenPryde Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 BAM have some knowledge https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkYvaEVpHsu-dG1kYjFkMUpTcU5MOHdGeGV4Mk1oT3c#gid=0 the nerf is annoying, but imo it is not as dramatic of a reduction as some of you are making it out to be. personally, i will drop from 87% to 76%. however, i am disappointed that bioware is messing with mechanics that did not appear broken or overpowered whilst there are other, way more important issues to be addressed. Thanks for this. Good to know it won't ruin my Rage spec and might actually make sense to get more power. BM Jugg gear is still crappy though. 80% of the pieces have crit on it and I'm at 25% at the moment, so I'm close to the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes. I agree the Surge rating changes are in fact progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wow, this really pisses me off... I've been on here saying the problem with scoundrel burst wasn't that shoot first does a ton of damage, it's that it has a stupid crit multiplier, especially in high end pvp gear. I suggested that they just reduce our top end crit multiplier talents. Now, after they already nerfed scoundrel dps they're looking at crit multipliers... :S This shoot first ask questions later style of balancing pvp is annoying. Im still famous I see. No more Grav's for me, the grass was greener with the Assault line. Good changes imo btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmov Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is beyond retarded:classes that crit for too much will crit for less and classes that dont crit for too much wont crit for ****.Also it will screw pve cuz of enrage timers. Oh,and guess what,sorcs will have more surviveablity after this. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Surge was too good IMHO, but it partly has to do with the itemization available because there's no Power+Crit mods. I mean it was Surge+Crit or Surge+Power. Edited February 10, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoshist Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well, you don't HAVE to get the 5K medal every time you play a WZ. So you get 9 medals instead of 10 now. And keep in mind, the 5K medal will still be there when we get our next tier of PvP gear and 5K will be a laugher as we'll all be rocking 30k hit points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This will be the 3rd patch in a row where they have claimed to fix Warzone credit. Yes it is. And I am sure they mean it this time! Of course they said that last time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well, you don't HAVE to get the 5K medal every time you play a WZ. So you get 9 medals instead of 10 now. And keep in mind, the 5K medal will still be there when we get our next tier of PvP gear and 5K will be a laugher as we'll all be rocking 30k hit points. Point made. The 2.5K healing and dps medals are already easy mode for anybody in 50 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmak Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't mind the Surge nerf for PVP, but for PVE, I'm not sold it won't mess up nightmare encounters or at least make them more difficult. That being said, PVE is still a "controlled" environment so we will find ways around it. For PVP it really hurts the healers more than dps, as a lot of our skills are 2x damage base anyway on crit. I doubt we'd really see much of a difference though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulli Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 BAM have some knowledge https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkYvaEVpHsu-dG1kYjFkMUpTcU5MOHdGeGV4Mk1oT3c#gid=0 the nerf is annoying, but imo it is not as dramatic of a reduction as some of you are making it out to be. personally, i will drop from 87% to 76%. however, i am disappointed that bioware is messing with mechanics that did not appear broken or overpowered whilst there are other, way more important issues to be addressed. You ROCK! Do you have any numbers/input on where precisely soft/hard caps are? For primary stats, power, crit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikesta Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 While I won't form an opinion on his nerf until I actually play in the new patch, and see my new numbers, I really don't understand all the doom saying and QQ going on. I mean.. its a 10% decrease... thats it. Its not like they are cutting it in half or anything. Crits are still gonna be crits, but instead of doing a 5k crit... you'll do a 4.5k crit (just using 5k as an example). Do an auto attack and the damage becomes the same. The only thing that kind of remotely upsets me is the fact that I have never gotten the 5k hit medal, and now I probably won't for a while now, at least until I get full Battle Master gear. And even then im not so sure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krim- Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 My biggest issue with this is that right now, the only good Enhancements for my Juggernaut are Crit/Surge and Power/Surge with the latter being the best. With Surge being nerfed, what other Enhancements do I put in my gear? Power/Accuracy? Crit/Accuracy? Is Accuracy even useful at all in PvP? I read somewhere that going over 100% Accuracy might add Armor Penetration in PvP? Can anyone confirm/deny this? I'm just at a loss as to what Enhancements I should be getting now. Getting over 100% Accuracy doesn't add armor penetration, it lower's enemies defense. There's a difference, Armor pen is straight reducing straight mitigation. Lowering defense makes them slightly less likely to Block, or Parry but has no bearing on on absorption or the ability to increase your damage for that particular attack. It just lets that particular roll go through where as it might have gotten blocked or parried. Still good, but just makes it to where more attacks actually hit if they have a higher defense rating than most. This mainly applies to PvE content tho for ops bosses and the potential of them having 108-110% defense versus 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecollo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Huge nerf to Tracer Missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copasetic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Getting over 100% Accuracy doesn't add armor penetration, it lower's enemies defense. There's a difference, Armor pen is straight reducing straight mitigation. Lowering defense makes them slightly less likely to Block, or Parry but has no bearing on on absorption or the ability to increase your damage for that particular attack. It just lets that particular roll go through where as it might have gotten blocked or parried. Still good, but just makes it to where more attacks actually hit if they have a higher defense rating than most. This mainly applies to PvE content tho for ops bosses and the potential of them having 108-110% defense versus 100 Thanks for clarifying. Then what Enhancements should I be aiming for if the new DR on Surge is not worth diving deeper into? A mix of Accuracy and Power? I guess I do see the occasional Parry/Dodge/Miss in PvP but I just don't think it's often enough to justify getting Accuracy. I guess I'll wait and see how my damage is affected by the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 While I won't form an opinion on his nerf until I actually play in the new patch, and see my new numbers, I really don't understand all the doom saying and QQ going on. I mean.. its a 10% decrease... thats it. Its not like they are cutting it in half or anything. Crits are still gonna be crits, but instead of doing a 5k crit... you'll do a 4.5k crit (just using 5k as an example). Do an auto attack and the damage becomes the same. The only thing that kind of remotely upsets me is the fact that I have never gotten the 5k hit medal, and now I probably won't for a while now, at least until I get full Battle Master gear. And even then im not so sure.. Don't bother if you are an Operative/Scoundrel. You won't get that 5k, not on BM geared people anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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