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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Same gender romances should be unique. At this point in time, none of the characters I've leveled have any companions even close to being bi. Re writing someone like Corso Riggs to be bi, wouldn't make any sense.

 

There are some companions that do give off not-so-straight vibes. And to be honest, Corso might seem straight, but we don't know what his reaction would be if a male Smuggler expressed interest. And the reason we don't know that is because male Smugglers can't express an interest. Corso might indeed say something like "uh, I'm flattered, but I don't swing that way", or he might say "Oh, *blush* I've never felt this way about a guy before!", or he might say "What took you so long? *glomph*". Until any of those things happen, we don't know what Corso's sexuality is beyond the fact that he is attracted to women (and attraction to women doesn't not automatically exclude attraction to men).

 

The same goes for every companion. Sexuality isn't stamped on a person's face, you can't tell by looking at a person where they fall in the spectrum. You can't even tell from their past loves, though maybe you can make a(n inaccurate) guess. The only way you'll ever know what a person's sexuality is, is if they tell you themselves - and even then, it's not 100%. People do lie to themselves, and they do choose to hide who they are if they think the truth might hurt them.

 

BioWare will get more negative flack from making every character bi then they would positive. Hell look at Anders, adding to the male Hawke relationship that he was partners with Karl tells me he's gay, so any relationship with a female Hawke, is just him faking interest in her.

 

I think the main problem with Anders is that some people were uncomfortable when he made the first move. Yes, I'm sure there were some people who were upset that he seemed to have changed from the first game to the second, but... He had changed! Having a fade spirit inhabiting you is going to change you.

 

The rest of what you said makes no sense at all. You're saying that because Anders had a relationship with Karl, that he's only gay, and is faking a relationship with female Hawke. He never mentions having an intimate relationship with Karl to a female Hawke. In female Hawke's world, Anders is probably straight (remember what I said above about not making absolute assumptions about a person's sexuality).

 

I can't take any current squad mate serious as a bi anymore because they've been written has straight from the get go. New companions, can be anything they want.

 

You haven't played a female Agent, have you?

 

I guess after Mass Effect 3, you'll have a better idea of an answer from BioWare. If they rewrite any of the companions to be bi-able, then you'll know that they have no problems with rewriting and destroying the story of their companions.

 

Just so you know, both Kaiden and Ashley were intended to be bisexual, but for some reason they took out that possibility before releasing the first Mass Effect game. There are same gender romance lines that were recorded for both of them. You can go and look, they're probably on YouTube somewhere. So, now you know that - do you think Bioware ruined them by rewriting them to be straight?

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While it would be strange to have ALL the companions romancable by any gender; it would be more annoying to have to wait till level 50 to be able to even start the SGRA. And even if they go that way it seems likely they will be lazy and add the minimum number of companions. Maybe 1 per side for empire and republic for everyone to meet on the new planet.

 

Edit: And like Zandilar said, the Agents first companion is explicitly stated to be bi. It's just that there's nothing you can do with that information as a female character currently.

Edited by Luhrsen
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There are some companions that do give off not-so-straight vibes. And to be honest, Corso might seem straight, but we don't know what his reaction would be if a male Smuggler expressed interest. And the reason we don't know that is because male Smugglers can't express an interest. Corso might indeed say something like "uh, I'm flattered, but I don't swing that way", or he might say "Oh, *blush* I've never felt this way about a guy before!", or he might say "What took you so long? *glomph*". Until any of those things happen, we don't know what Corso's sexuality is beyond the fact that he is attracted to women (and attraction to women doesn't not automatically exclude attraction to men).

 

The same goes for every companion. Sexuality isn't stamped on a person's face, you can't tell by looking at a person where they fall in the spectrum. You can't even tell from their past loves, though maybe you can make a(n inaccurate) guess. The only way you'll ever know what a person's sexuality is, is if they tell you themselves - and even then, it's not 100%. People do lie to themselves, and they do choose to hide who they are if they think the truth might hurt them.

Well said. :D The way the companions are written now, much like the player, they can only be in heterosexual relationships, so it's impossible to say just what their sexuality could be. Hetero isn't the default sexuality by any means.

 

For example, with my male Trooper, I have no idea what Aric Jorgan's sexuality is, as the man hasn't said a thing either way. Aric hasn't expressed attraction or interest toward anyone, male or female. Much the same with Malavai Quinn with my Sith Warrior, though I have the feeling Malavai might just like anyone in a uniform, regardless of their gender - he may and well truly be Empire-sexual. :p But you get the idea.

 

This is a big part of why I'm in favor of widespread bisexuality/hero-sexuality for the companions. The SGRs may start with a companion saying they've never felt this way for someone the same gender before, they may not. I've written enough same-gender stuff myself to know there are many ways to do it. But I trust in BioWare's writers to write these things well and make them believable.

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I can't take any current squad mate serious as a bi anymore because they've been written has straight from the get go.

 

Except they haven't. Since's there's more or less a single script for 95% of companion dialog, including romancable companions, regardless of player gender, romancable companions often seem to be hinting at interest.

 

Though I think that Corso's basic character write-up indicates he's straight (in retrospect, I guess I don't actually know of any studies linking the behaviors I'm thinking of to sexuality, I could be way off) a lot of people playing male smugglers have commented they feel like there's a little bit more than "bromance" going on there.

 

To me, it seems like Kira's into the Jedi Knight, regardless of the JK's gender.

 

I saw the first four minutes or so of bounty hunter gameplay. It seemed like the female bounty hunter was immediately interested in Mako, if for no other reason as she has he same script as the male bounty hunter.

 

The characters haven't really been written as straight at all. It feels like they've been written as "herosexual," but then someone flipped the "no *****" switch.

 

Granted that may simply be an artifact of the amount voicework and writing that needed to be done and totally unintended, but it is the state of things.

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The characters haven't really been written as straight at all. It feels like they've been written as "herosexual," but then someone flipped the "no *****" switch.

 

Very much agreed. It isn't that any of the character are or are not straight, its that we have no choice in the matter. Of the companions I'm most familiar with, Corso, Kira, Mako, Vette, Quinn, Kaliyo, all seem to me as if they were written to be hero-sexual anyway. Does that extend to "all" the romance-able companions? I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't see why not.

 

I think most of the people saying that the romance companions shouldn't be hero-sexual do so more out of a hope that it will either delay or prevent same gender romance options all together, which is just silly.

 

There shouldn't really be much of a difference in the romance stories regardless of what the PC gender is, neither the hetero nor the **** nor the bi sexual romances need to be singled out to be made "different" from the others. I don't need a special "gay moment" inserted into my romance with Corso or Kira or anyone else. In fact doing so would be rather insulting.

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Greetings all. I've been watching this everyday since the new year hoping that I will find what ever information has been leaked. So far there hasn't been any. It's sad and a little depressing I know, but I've been on the other side of the fence as well.

 

Yes they have said publicly, which is almost a committal, that they are going to put same sex relationships into SWTOR after launch. This was said quite awhile ago. However, until the game launched they were most likely scrambling, 80+ hours a week, to get the already decided upon list of features completed. So as far as SSRs go, they probably didn't even look into them seriously 1 month or more after release. I mean they have release issues to solve as well.

 

Now as far as creating the SSR content, sure they may have had the script portions somewhat done, but I'm willing to bet that the voice acting wasn't done. This means scheduling with the actors and their agents, getting time in a recording environment and recording the giant amount of lines that need to be created. A lot of the voice acting for the companions may be able to be reused by just making it accessible, but for the main character to have responses they will probably have to record it all.

 

So from my point of view, as much as I really want SSRs in this game, I'm happy they at least said it's coming. It may take until June->August for it to happen though, so once I get all my characters to a point where they may be able to romance with the same sex, I will quit. I'll keep my cash and just wait until they finish what they are doing.

 

My two cents. Take it as you will.

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We aren't looking at two months of developer silence. We are looking at five months, going on six, in regards to an aspect of game content which, as of five months ago, was said by BioWare to be of no small importance to them.

 

Yes, some would like a timeline. That's not asking for a date. It's asking for what sort of span of time they project for this content. They have this number. Sure it can change. But they can say, "We are aiming to get it implemented this year, but it may take longer if we need more time to do it as well as we want to."

 

BioWare put its own foot in this particular bear trap through a combination of bad decisions which to me have all the ear-marks of being compromises hashed out by a commitee in a hurry. My gut instinct is that BioWare now recognizes these as having been bad decisions.

 

The dilemma they are left with is that if they make haste to reply they may make another bad decision because they have not really thought it through. At the same time, the very same poor decisions they already have made make it extremely awkward not to be able to make a meaningful response in any sort of timely manner.

 

Here's how they seem to have gotten there:

 

First, in a story-driven game, they determined to have sidekick characters who players would get to know through the course of the story. Fine. They decided to include the possibility of romance as a part of that story that some players would enjoy. Okay.

 

But, for whatever reason, they seem not to have recalled at this point that gay people exist, that some play MMOs, and that some MMO players who aren't gay still are interested enough in pretending to be someone else that same-gender content would in fact be a real selling point for them.

 

Somewhere in here, a different bunch of developers are working on the missions, and the attendant conversations. Light Side / Dark Side decisions probably held a fairly central part in what they wanted to do with these at the outset. Only in trying to offer more sense of "life" to the player's character did they think, "hey - let's put in some chances to flirt. That will be fun!" No one working on this content seems to have thought about same-gender content at all. Or, if they did, the idea was squashed.

 

Somewhere further along, the notion of companion romances is mentioned to fans who are following the development of the game. Someone asks about same-gender content. The developers working on companion stories go, "Uh..." This is probably the first time it even comes up. A minor tempest ensues.

 

Nothing in particular is mentioned about casual flirts - talk about missions probably is more about Light Side / Dark Side. No one hears about flirts, no one asks about same-gender content, there is no "Uh..." moment. There is no kerfuffle. There is no awareness that content being written is devoid of any inclusiveness.

 

The companion romance issue is booted around. BioWare, through whatever crappy design decision making process it has, decides that yeah, this is probably something they ought to include. But hey - it's nothing really important. It doesn't make the cut in the decision as to what they think needs to be in the game at launch. Bad decision #1, as it demarcates same-gender content as of secondary importance to having romance in the game at launch.

 

Bad mistake number two. They announce this, in advance of the launch, in terms that make it plain they really don't know at that point how they might go about it. Comments made putting this decision in context underline this - they are thinking about maybe making current companions romanceable, but really that's just one possibility.

 

So players who expect EA and BioWare to deliver same-gender content (a reputation these companies have cultivated) know they are riding in the back of the bus even before launch. They can infer that this is coming as an afterthought. Companion romances exist, are written, are integral to what SWTOR will feature at launch. Same-gender content is an afterthought, an extra that will be added later as a concession to those other people who like that sort of thing. Bad decision.

 

Better to wait on any companion romances until the content was inclusive - that puts it in there at least with the appearance of actually mattering to the design team as much as romantic content as a whole.

 

Launch comes, people start playing, and have the opportunity to meet the companions, experience how the companion stories actually work in practice, get to know particular individual companions and cannot help thinking which would make for an interesting romantic prospect.

 

KEY POINT - With more information on how the game plays, obtained by playing it, those who look forward to same-gender content now have more specific wishes for and questions about how in fact it will be implemented. Hence, this thread.

 

Similarly, through playing the game, the prevalence of casual opportunities to flirt, in some cases resulting in a cutscene with a fade-to-black of implied intimacy, is revealed. It is evident that no effort whatsoever has been made to make this content - experienced sooner and more frequently than any companion romance - inclusive of same gender content.

 

As far as I know, this was not even questioned prior to launch. Those around for beta may be able to correct me.

 

At this point, we still only have the limited, unsatisfactory announcement from September which told us this content was essentially unimportant, framed with assurances that there will be far more new content that's fun for everyone, not just those other people who like that kind of thing.

 

In what way is this not, from the get-go, deeply condescending, dismissive and frankly a token gesture only - to be made at some point, when convenient?

 

That looks really crappy. Now, since same-gender content is on their end apparently still in development hell, they cannot or will not address any questions raised by the actual game-play experience.

 

Pre-launch, they were offering a token gesture to prospective customers.

 

Post-launch, they are offering nothing at all to paying customers.

 

"We value all our players, and this is important to us!" Bantha poodoo.

 

There is good reason to be dissatisfied with this state of affairs, and not a few of us feel this way. Graceless decisions made by BioWare have made a graceful resolution difficult. Honest communication as to the actual situation right now - wherever that actually is - would be a very good place to start. Not saying anything, on the other hand, puts everything in the worst light possible.

 

BioWare really screwed the pooch on this one, all the way around. And I think they know it.

Edited by Uluain
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It may take until June->August for it to happen though, so once I get all my characters to a point where they may be able to romance with the same sex, I will quit.

 

June/August? Wow. My subscription ends this month, and that is as much time as I'm willing to give them and keep paying. I'll probably keep an eye on the forum in March yet to see if it gets added but if they think June/Aug is a reasonable date to expect this content is borderline negligent. That would be a pretty clear sign to me they care absolutely nothing about this portion of the player base. If I don't hear anything about it being implemented in March, I doubt I'll ever look back at this game.

 

The developers working on companion stories go, "Uh..." This is probably the first time it even comes up. A minor tempest ensues.

 

I don't buy that for a second. :p If this were anyone else but BW, maybe I would consider that, but these guys know better. I don't believe no one on the development team at anytime couldn't be bothered to raise a hand and say "So what about same gender content?"

 

BW knows how important this is to their fans, they as a company seem to be very proud of previous games that include this content and proud of the praise they have received for it. I simply can't believe this ever came as a shock or surprise to them.

 

 

"We value all our players, and this is important to us!" Bantha poodoo.

 

Agree, I don't see that they value us any at all.

Edited by Nozybidaj
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Most of yous are complaining like its the end of the world because yous cant romance pixels on a screen. The fact is: yous arent going to be able to romance the companions yous have now, only new ones ie: in an expansion, which is when the rest of us will get further companion content/story.

 

Bioware isnt going to release any content just for yous. Yous wait like the rest of us.

Edited by Girdeux
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It may take until June->August for it to happen though, so once I get all my characters to a point where they may be able to romance with the same sex, I will quit. I'll keep my cash and just wait until they finish what they are doing.

 

My two cents. Take it as you will.

 

Yep. My billing cycle renews in 2 days. That's not really enough time to reasonably expect them to be able to change their minds on how they are (not) communicating with us, so I decided that I'm going to let my sub auto-renew and then cancel it as soon as it does.

 

In this way I can use the exit survey to make sure they know that my issue is with the lack of communication from the Community Team. Then, if at some point within that 30-day period they decide to reach out to us, I'll renew. More silence will mean my sub lapses.

 

I honestly don't care if it takes awhile to implement SGRA's. That's totally fine. I'd rather they take their time and do it well. But I absolutely will not renew past this next billing cycle without some kind of good-faith gesture of communication. If that is something that other people can't even try to understand, well...I'm okay with that. /Shrug

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Yous wait like the rest of us.

 

No.

 

For "Yous" and "the rest of us" the waiting is not the same.

 

The majority of the community has been given romance content to interact with. While waiting for further content, they can pursue the content they have.

 

The GLBT community has been given nothing, and no explanation as to when they might expect to receive something or what it is they should expect to receive.

 

"Yous" does not wait "like the rest of us."

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The point of what? A dev post has confirmed yous WILL be waiting till new companions are added.

No, they have not

 

They have said that new companions will include more romance options.

 

They have also said:

 

"We can't guarantee that a character you play at launch would have romance options 'unlocked' for an existing companion. It's something that will be taken into consideration when making design decisions. Not a promise it'll happen, but we'll take that feedback and relay it through to design.

That comment was made in regards to the announcement regarding future content.

 

Further, NO Developer has ever said ANYTHING regarding same-gender content.

 

That information was not from the Development Team. They were from the Online Community front-man, Stephen Reid, who does not have any say in design or implementation.

 

Trust me - those to whom this is an important issue know what has and has not been said. You, plainly, don't.

 

You also plainly don't care about this content. I don't wander into topics (Chat Bubbles, Combat Logs, Damage Meters, Ilum) that I don't care about and tell people to shut up and wait. Kindly return the courtesy.

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We aren't looking at two months of developer silence. We are looking at five months, going on six, in regards to an aspect of game content which, as of five months ago, was said by BioWare to be of no small importance to them.

 

Yes, some would like a timeline. That's not asking for a date. It's asking for what sort of span of time they project for this content.

 

I understand that they said almost 6 months ago that it would be added post launch. But I doubt it was looked at seriously until after release, and even then it probably took a little while to get on the radar. I do understand the silence and lack of feedback to the community being a problem. And I agree I would hope that they would at least have a worst case timeline coming out of their meetings soon.

 

 

KEY POINT - With more information on how the game plays, obtained by playing it, those who look forward to same-gender content now have more specific wishes for and questions about how in fact it will be implemented. Hence, this thread.

 

You are right, the key point of this thread is to discuss how it could/should be implemented. I'll give you that, and I apologize for leaving that out of my post. I was just trying to explain that I believe patience over a longer period of time is what is needed.

 

I do believe that SSR should be implemented for all current companion characters, or worse case add some new companions that are only SSR. Any extra companions should be obtainable at around the same points in the story as the current set then. I personally don't want to play the main story line with out an SSR companion. I'd never get to additional content added for higher players that may have SSR without it from the beginning. It just wouldn't appeal to me.

 

Oh, and no check box radio button thing.....just a [Flirt] option thank you.

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June/August? Wow. My subscription ends this month, and that is as much time as I'm willing to give them and keep paying. I'll probably keep an eye on the forum in March yet to see if it gets added but if they think June/Aug is a reasonable date to expect this content is borderline negligent. That would be a pretty clear sign to me they care absolutely nothing about this portion of the player base. If I don't hear anything about it being implemented in March, I doubt I'll ever look back at this game.

 

That was my estimate, nothing official. My estimate may be way off not having worked for EA/Bioware personally. I can't gauge how fast they react and where on the list of things to accomplish this may be. So take it with a grain of salt and do as you believe is necessary.

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I was just trying to explain that I believe patience over a longer period of time is what is needed.

 

I would be willing to be very patient if BW could just tell us whether or not finishing character's storylines would mean missing out on romance options, or in fact, as people are now claiming that they already said (which most other people who have been following this very closely clarified that it was not) that it will be part of a completely new set of companions in a paid expansion pack. I just really want to know if it won't matter if you play through the entire story or not so that I would be able to focus on certain classes that I don't care if I miss things out with.

 

I'm not saying I want it now or I'm going to bash my fists on my desk until someone hears, and they release it promptly tailored to my every wish. The general idea, at least from me, is that I just want a vague communication of how they may go about setting this up. Just an acknowledgement would mean so much to so many I imagine.

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Weekend reminder for those who have yet to post in the current Community Q&A Thread to take the time to do so.

 

Our questions were not answered in the latest Q&A blog and recent remarks through Customer Support hint thar BioWare does not want to talk about same-gender content right now, so the burden is on us to convince them that they really should.

 

Current count is 50 respondents requesting more information on the status of same-gender content, as of 452 posts in the thread. Most of those are in the very early pages, but we are currently an impressive 11% of the discussion.

 

Let's keep it up if we can.

Edited by Uluain
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That was my estimate, nothing official. My estimate may be way off not having worked for EA/Bioware personally. I can't gauge how fast they react and where on the list of things to accomplish this may be. So take it with a grain of salt and do as you believe is necessary.

 

No no, I understand. Just even thinking of this taking that long just seems like so far out there. I can't believe anyone would be willing to wait that long. :p I have characters I want to play now, not 6 months from now. I'm certainly not willing to pay them 6 months worth of subscription fees to continue ignoring me.

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I have received your transmission regarding the Same Gender Romance Arc feature.

 

I apologize if this topic has placed you in a frustrating position. As of the moment, we are not in the best position to provide any final feedbacks on the feature in question. I, however, assure you that your suggestion will reach the correct ears. At the moment, the developers are working on having the SGRA feature ready to be added on the future patches.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything further we can help you with.

 

Galactic Support is our specialty...

 

Well, this sounds promising. If this is an issue of "final feedback," then it would appear that this issue is closer to completion than we had thought.

 

I wonder if the plan is to just put this into a patch without any fanfare. Putting something that has already generated a response from the usual anti-gay suspects into a paid expansion wouldn't really make sense from a business perspective. Why turn a major source of revenue (a paid expansion pack going for, say, $60) into the focal point of a boycott/backlash when you can put it into a patch and maybe lose a couple of subscribers who went over the patch notes with a fine-tooth comb. Judging from the number of people asking in this week's Dev Q&A about the prospects of server transfers, a question answered two Q&As ago, they could be...how do I put this delicately...betting on the lack of reading comprehension skills instead of facing a focused campaign with the "gays in space expansion pack" as the target.

 

In the pre-launch forums, someone suggested--and I'm paraphrasing here--that this is how it would probably show up in the patch notes:

 

Increased damage of Jedi Consulars by 0.3% across the board. Fixed issue with certain graphics card drivers that was causing players to crash to desktop. Mobs on higher level planets should now drop rewards more in line with their level of difficulty. Emotes should now animate properly in cantinas. Fixed issue with Flashpoints that was causing some dialogue choices to permanently bug the mission for the entire team. Introduced Telosian Battle Greaves to crafting system. Gays in space. Rakghoul serum is now craftable by biochemists regardless of level.

 

We'll see...

Edited by jediknightcub
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Increased damage of Jedi Consulars by 0.3% across the board. Fixed issue with certain graphics card drivers that was causing players to crash to desktop. Mobs on higher level planets should now drop rewards more in line with their level of difficulty. Emotes should now animate properly in cantinas. Fixed issue with Flashpoints that was causing some dialogue choices to permanently bug the mission for the entire team. Introduced Telosian Battle Greaves to crafting system. Gays in space. Rakghoul serum is now craftable by biochemists regardless of level.

 

We'll see...

 

<giggles>

 

Is it bad that I immediately thought to myself, 'PIIIGS IIIN SPAAAAAACE!'?

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Well, this sounds promising. If this is an issue of "final feedback," then it would appear that this issue is closer to completion than we had thought.

In which case, we can only hope someone has been paying attention to what we are actually hoping for, because if it is close to finalization, it is probably too late to offer any sort of constructive feedback of our own.

 

In the very first Community Q&A, one of the questions responded to was:

 

Seltron: What is the preferred method for providing feedback to the development team, and why (e.g. In-game tickets, forums, support@swtor.com)?

 

Stephen Reid: Every method of feedback you mention will ultimately make its way to the development team; we get feedback from everywhere (including off-site sources such as Twitter, Facebook, fansites, podcasts and the like). In-game metrics are also always being gathered and analyzed, so that essentially ‘passive feedback’ is given by players every time they log in. With that said, the Forums are always a good starting place for feedback; everything is read (even if we don’t always immediately respond to threads) and the Community team regularly reports out player concerns and thoughts. As always, the more constructive your feedback is, the better for the development team. [emphasis mine - U]

If this is in fact the case (as it is certain this thread has never received acknowlegement, much less a response), then perhaps my worries are unfounded.

 

But not entering a dialog just lets them give us what they give us, and leads me to expect less rather than more, later rather than sooner.

 

Also, while it looks as if that response actually wrung some amount of information out of someone, and "patch" is more encouraging than "expansion", I still would like a status report. Someone must know something, and at this point any response would be better than none.

Edited by Uluain
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So I'm too lazy to read all 80 pages, are we still expecting this or is Bioware giving up because of bad press?

There have been indications of a second-hand, round-about sort that BioWare has faced the controversy and is very much still planning some manner of same-gender content at some point.

 

We know no more regarding specifics, but (I would have to really dig for the sources) they have not abandoned their announced intentions.

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JediKnightCub, where did you get the quote:

 

I have received your transmission regarding the Same Gender Romance Arc feature.

 

I apologize if this topic has placed you in a frustrating position. As of the moment, we are not in the best position to provide any final feedbacks on the feature in question. I, however, assure you that your suggestion will reach the correct ears. At the moment, the developers are working on having the SGRA feature ready to be added on the future patches.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything further we can help you with.

 

Galactic Support is our specialty...

 

I have not seen this before, and I'm wondering if it's something I missed, or if it's new. I guess I should also ask if the source was Bioware/EA. Please let me know.

Edited by ElvarMagnus
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