Please don't let this game become WoW.

[KBSIP]

Reixxer, there is millions of people in prison also, but I doubt they all wanna be there and that's what they really want.

 

Sometimes people just end up in places they don't wanna be. Doesn't nessassarily mean it's such a great place

 

 

 

This is the dumbest....

 

 

This is the dumbest...

 

 

Dumbest dumbest dumbest dumbest dumbest analogy I've seen on this entire freaking set of forums in the last month and a half, and if you actually try to defend it I move you be instantly incarcerated and then forced to play WoW for a month so you can form a basis for comparison.

[JeremyDale]

This is the dumbest....

 

 

This is the dumbest...

 

 

Dumbest dumbest dumbest dumbest dumbest analogy I've seen on this entire freaking set of forums in the last month and a half, and if you actually try to defend it I move you be instantly incarcerated and then forced to play WoW for a month so you can form a basis for comparison.

 

lol...

 

YOu can call it dumb if you want, but it was a very apt analogy, at least from my perspective. It explains perfectly my assossiation with WoW

 

A lot of people who play WoW dont' want to be there. They are only there because of friends, family, the wife or girlfriend who can't play anything but WoW because she sucks at games so bad....ect.

 

I think you get the picture. That game is a like prison to a lot of people. Trust me lol

Edited February 10, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Maoxx]

When I think about what they could add to make this game an unbelievable deal breaker... Here's what I come up with...

 

Open up space, add planets, galaxies, asteroid fields, comets, stars, space stations, fleets.

 

Planets that are uncharted and aren't quest driven (not these small planets that are the size of Rhode Island). Add more area to current planets. A place where players can grind and find unexpected items, materials, and enemies. A place where guilds can make their own outposts with individual housing, defense shields, defense turrents, hangars, hired guards and npcs, ect. Some way give guilds and their members their own corner in the market.

 

Allow you to customize your gear, ship, companions. Anything that is customizable. Different variations of colors and functionality to items. Add more ships, different ships with different functions. Allow people to make ships not just ship parts. Guild capital ships, where you can fly to operations and planets as a guild (every flashpoint and operation start at fleet? c'mon boring)

 

Allow you to control your ship in space, to be able to pvp and pve in open space. To be able to loot or salvage enemy ships. Mine asteroids for metals, ect. Allow you to board enemy ships.

 

More classes, more races, more professions, more ways to make your character look and feel unique. (every class in tionese, columi, rakata gear look exactly the same.) Right now they don't have enough content to even justify more than 8 color crystals for god sake. Make the game a little more complex and challenging. The biggest challenge is the operations, in which all you have to do is look up the youtube video for fight mechanics and the best strategy. Leveling in this game is a walk in the park and a joke compared to any of its competitors.

 

And basically the more I think about it, it sounds like a crack-pipe dream. Even a fraction of what I just said would open up so many possibilities and "end-game content". Bioware themselves stated when asked in an interview, what do you think makes the best MMO, which they replied a mixture of sand-box content and theme-park content. All I've seen is WoW if the humans and orcs were several thousand years advanced. They should have taken elements from different games, but yet again another copy and paste. Oh wait they added voice acting, big woop.

 

So I think I can sum this up. You wish this game was SWG 2?

[Pinchy_]

Nice post Spaze.

 

I'm sick of the WoW-model myself, and I'm really tired of how every game is copy-pasting it these days. I'd like to see some "sand-box" (why they call it than i'll never know) type content added myself. The repetitive gear-grind hamster wheel at the end gets old fast.

 

I would have perfered SWTOR hadn't copied WoW so closely. The so-called "endgame" on this game may as well be called World of Warcraft2 - minus the effective LFG tool....

 

They call it Sandbox because it allows you to model things out of something to the point of infinite replayablility, only limited by your imagination.

 

I'm designing a document for an MMO stepping up from a game currently being remade in a modern design, to get some feedback fromt he industry on these ideas.

 

A mix of turn based combat, sandbox type base building and a large expansive tech tree to research. So unlike the "get the tier set" copy paste MMO design, it will have a complete custom set of equipment which you can fit into your soldiers equipment grid

 

A tech tree for each aspect of the game, combat, construction, resource gathering, diplomatic/social.

 

There is a galaxy map where random missions based on radar coverage and skill level pop up for the player to choose, however they can only go on missions alone if it is linked to their class. Each class chooses one combat and one support class (EG, Foot soldier, Constructor or Vehicle Pilot, and one of the research types)

 

You start out by creating a "Company"(guild) of 10 players then selecting a place in the galaxy for a new planet to be terraformed, this will be where your Company places their main base building and has a set area to construct on.

 

The levelling process goes from expertise 1-100 and is like an extensive tutorial, after that the end game opens up an enourmous second tech tree, where you can choose where to go.

 

The game will allow you to vote on most things as a guild or vote for a leader who will select all choices, including the start locations and approve base constructions. Think custom tower defence but with traps and other defence structures in your main base, maybe like stronghold, but you can only use what you have researched and fabricated in your base.

 

I typed most of this stuff here as a quick note if you want to know more ask me.

[JeremyDale]

They call it Sandbox because it allows you to model things out of something to the point of infinite replayablility, only limited by your imagination.

 

I'm designing a document for an MMO stepping up from a game currently being remade in a modern design, to get some feedback fromt he industry on these ideas.

 

A mix of turn based combat, sandbox type base building and a large expansive tech tree to research. So unlike the "get the tier set" copy paste MMO design, it will have a complete custom set of equipment which you can fit into your soldiers equipment grid

 

A tech tree for each aspect of the game, combat, construction, resource gathering, diplomatic/social.

 

There is a galaxy map where random missions based on radar coverage and skill level pop up for the player to choose, however they can only go on missions alone if it is linked to their class. Each class chooses one combat and one support class (EG, Foot soldier, Constructor or Vehicle Pilot, and one of the research types)

 

You start out by creating a "Company"(guild) of 10 players then selecting a place in the galaxy for a new planet to be terraformed, this will be where your Company places their main base building and has a set area to construct on.

 

The levelling process goes from expertise 1-100 and is like an extensive tutorial, after that the end game opens up an enourmous second tech tree, where you can choose where to go.

 

The game will allow you to vote on most things as a guild or vote for a leader who will select all choices, including the start locations and approve base constructions. Think custom tower defence but with traps and other defence structures in your main base, maybe like stronghold, but you can only use what you have researched and fabricated in your base.

 

I typed most of this stuff here as a quick note if you want to know more ask me.

 

Well that sounds interesting Pinchy. Some cool ideas in there.

 

I too work on creating my own RPGs in my off-time. I've poured countless hours into it, and who knows - maybe one day I'll actually finish it

 

Thanks for explaining the "sand-box" metaphor.

Edited February 10, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Ansultares]

I personally, don't understand how people are still playing WoW after 8+ years.

I played for three years before they settled on this model.

 

I've put in another 18 months or so into MMOs since; none with WoW, because they settled upon that model.

 

Disappointing to see BW electing to go the same direction, light on substance and heavy on obvious grind.

[Kubernetic]

I've been loving this game so far. Huge SW's fan all my life. I understand there isn't a whole lot of end-game content right now, so after I've gotten my main in mostly Rakata gear now...so I'm playing alts and enjoying it whole-heartily, for the most part.

 

The number one reason why I quit WoW after so many months. Is, because they made it completely about gear. Gear, gear, gear. You get your full suit of Rakata, then what? You wait forever for the next patch for the next tier of set items? Same with PVP, after you get your full set of Battlemaster, then what do you do? It loses its value when there is nothing left to accomplish. It seems so pointless.

 

I know this has been discussed before, but if they don't add "sand-box" type content, it will be just like WoW... never-ending conquest for gear. I think the best thing they can do is open up space. It makes sense, it is *Star* Wars after-all. Half the movies take place in open space. But I don't see these big-type changes coming anytime soon.

 

Maybe this "gear grind" is just the formula big-time MMO developers use anymore. I guess it keeps me occupied and entertained longer than most single player games. 3-6 months. But after those 3-6 months, instead of feeling happy I beat the game, I'm angry with the developers and angry at myself for wasting so much time and money. I personally, don't understand how people are still playing WoW after 8+ years. Honestly, I can't see myself playing beyond the 3 months I've payed for.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. I see the gear as secondary to the game and its purpose. If the purpose were to disappear and leave gear as the top primary goal, that will probably be my final month.

 

I'd really like some sandbox content of some kind that can keep us meaningfully busy between content updates.

 

And as for those content updates, maybe they should spend some time re-evaluating their intended release schedules. When is the next chapter of the character stories due? Spring? Summer? Fall? Maybe they can be moved up a little bit. Maybe they should be?

 

Just a thought.

[oakamp]

WoW is every game that came before it.

 

Just like Castle Wolfenstien,then DOOM, then every 1st person shooter from then on.

Its a genre:

A class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like.

 

wrong,

EQ 1st.

[Jezzah]

WoW is every game that came before it.

 

Just like Castle Wolfenstien,then DOOM, then every 1st person shooter from then on.

Its a genre:

A class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like.

 

U know your classics

 

As a hardcore fps player don't forget ut99 and Quake since they have put the multiplayer aspect in it

Edited February 10, 2012 by Jezzah

[Leandrid]

I agree with the OP and posted this in another thread, which got closed by a mod. I think the following is the culprit nowadays.

 

After playing online games sind MUDs and playing almost all of the major MMORPGs since the mid 90s, I am quite sure the genre is dead by now. All major titles cater to the casual gamers, which of course pose the majority of the player base.

 

The problem, that many players like me have is, that we played too many of those games, which all have the same course of action: level to max level, then grind gear. We simply are burnt out on that, that's it. Before WoW the MMORPG market was a niche one and getting to max level meant something and took a long time. Heck, even finding a quest was a chore, as there where no flashing question marks above the NPC's heads. Same counts for finding the quest goal. Today a lobotomized amoeba could level to the max level. Maybe this puzzling is we now long for and miss in every single of those newly released games, but simply forgot. So we jump from game to game, looking for the thrill we had so many years ago in the first MMORPGs.

 

Blizzard started to open the market for all players and made it easy to get into the mmorpg gameplay. And we, the old rpg players accepted that gameplay. We gladly accepted being handed out rewards without having to work for it, and forgot to have fun by actually playing, only striving for the next shiny purple. I and prolly many others like me, forgot to have fun in finding solutions to quests and other things. Heck, there are even games now which autowalk your char to the quest objective.

 

We only got what the game industry thought we wanted, because it worked since WoW. So I have to agree with many others, who stated that WoW broke the genre. I believe it to be true.

[Mephismo]

The only person turned WoW, or any other game into a gear grind is YOU !

None of it is a necessity, its mostly just fluff for epeen preeners.

 

So you just cleared all Hardmodes but you still need more gear right ?

Its because you need some kind of reward for doing something you have already done.

It’s a nice trick keeps some playing.

[Wazooty]

News flash:

 

This is game is WoW with different settings/graphics, and a third of the content.

 

Honestly, if blizzard decided to make an exact (and I mean exact) wow clone but with star wars setting/plots/classes instead, I'd rather play it than this.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Wazooty

[darkcerb]

The only person turned WoW, or any other game into a gear grind is YOU !

None of it is a necessity, its mostly just fluff for epeen preeners.

 

So you just cleared all Hardmodes but you still need more gear right ?

Its because you need some kind of reward for doing something you have already done.

It’s a nice trick keeps some playing.

 

For your point to mean anything 95% of the people that whine about the ease of mmos would have to have actually cleared the content put in specifically for it's difficulty.

[Gobrot]

every mmo maker is using the wow model. why? simple. 8 million suscribers speak for itself.

 

cos thats what most ppl wants. look at the features (both already in and requested) mainly. eg. barbershop, linking items in chat, model room to look how that armour looks on you, rogue like stealth and sap feature, need or greed roll, raid aka operations at end game, even the color coding ie. grey for junk, green for magical and blue for rares/protype etc are all from WOW. admit it whether u like it or not.

 

as someone in prior market research background, let me boldly say this-

 

if any mmo maker does not follow the world of warrcraft route, it will fail.

 

flame on.

 

8+ million subscribers and a watered down piece of crap game that tries to please everyone and in turn is becoming somewhat into a joke. hense why so many people are looking for something else.

I certanily would prefer a game that sticks to it's original concept and have a smaller player base then one that sells out just to make money, and am sure a lot of others would probably say the same thing. maybe not 8+ million but still a decent amount.

[Koendewit]

When I think about what they could add to make this game an unbelievable deal breaker... Here's what I come up with...

 

Open up space, add planets, galaxies, asteroid fields, comets, stars, space stations, fleets.

 

Planets that are uncharted and aren't quest driven (not these small planets that are the size of Rhode Island). Add more area to current planets. A place where players can grind and find unexpected items, materials, and enemies. A place where guilds can make their own outposts with individual housing, defense shields, defense turrents, hangars, hired guards and npcs, ect. Some way give guilds and their members their own corner in the market.

 

Add more area to current planets? Are u serius dude? Alderaan is already bigger than 8 wowzones. Cmon the zones are already very large, why do you people allways want more?

 

Allow you to customize your gear, ship, companions. Anything that is customizable. Different variations of colors and functionality to items. Add more ships, different ships with different functions. Allow people to make ships not just ship parts. Guild capital ships, where you can fly to operations and planets as a guild (every flashpoint and operation start at fleet? c'mon boring)

 

Totally agreed on this

 

Allow you to control your ship in space, to be able to pvp and pve in open space. To be able to loot or salvage enemy ships. Mine asteroids for metals, ect. Allow you to board enemy ships.

 

Agreed

 

More classes, more races, more professions, more ways to make your character look and feel unique. (every class in tionese, columi, rakata gear look exactly the same.) Right now they don't have enough content to even justify more than 8 color crystals for god sake. Make the game a little more complex and challenging. The biggest challenge is the operations, in which all you have to do is look up the youtube video for fight mechanics and the best strategy. Leveling in this game is a walk in the park and a joke compared to any of its competitors.

 

This game has in total 16 classes, which is quite alot compared to wow. Also, adding more classes requires different voice acting on a WHOLE new story. This will take just too much time and money. Agreed on the gear thing.

 

And basically the more I think about it, it sounds like a crack-pipe dream. Even a fraction of what I just said would open up so many possibilities and "end-game content". Bioware themselves stated when asked in an interview, what do you think makes the best MMO, which they replied a mixture of sand-box content and theme-park content. All I've seen is WoW if the humans and orcs were several thousand years advanced. They should have taken elements from different games, but yet again another copy and paste. Oh wait they added voice acting, big woop.

 

So please think about the things u ask before u start yelling them on Forums.

[Rayaleith]

They wish they will become wow. After 7 years having 10mil active subscribers (mmochampion says so). Well, you can't blame them trying to.

[Tic-]

every mmo maker is using the wow model. why? simple. 8 million suscribers speak for itself.

 

cos thats what most ppl wants. look at the features (both already in and requested) mainly. eg. barbershop, linking items in chat, model room to look how that armour looks on you, rogue like stealth and sap feature, need or greed roll, raid aka operations at end game, even the color coding ie. grey for junk, green for magical and blue for rares/protype etc are all from WOW. admit it whether u like it or not.

 

as someone in prior market research background, let me boldly say this-

 

if any mmo maker does not follow the world of warrcraft route, it will fail.

 

flame on.

 

This is why I never last in AAA MMOs.

 

They play exactly like the last one. I don't even need to read the players manual in these games anymore, its almost pathetic. I know exactly what must be done the moment i log in.

 

Wonderful.

 

Theres no sense of discovery, no curiousity at all. I can even put the same skill in the same slots on my keyboard.

 

Maybe someday, some with AAA money will step outside the box, and give us something a lil different... but i'm not holding my breath

Edited February 10, 2012 by Tic-

[spoonguy]

It is already WoW with lightsabres and voiceacting so I dunno what you're talking about.

 

Is it more WoW than it is Aion / Vanguard / EQ / EQ2? It's just an MMORPG ... most are variations on a theme.

[Mephismo]

Is it more WoW than it is Aion / Vanguard / EQ / EQ2? It's just an MMORPG ... most are variations on a theme.

 

Its very like WoW and tbh that is why I like it:)

[Knewt]

This game has in total 16 classes, which is quite alot compared to wow. Also, adding more classes requires different voice acting on a WHOLE new story. This will take just too much time and money. Agreed on the gear thing.

No. This game has 8 classes. Each faction has a mirror class that performs almost equally. The differences are flavor, not systematic.

 

OP: This isn't the "WoW" model. The gear up to beat something model goes back forever. In reality, that is what every computer RPG has boiled down to. Progress through the story (quests, etc), get better gear and beat the big baddie at the end. The only difference between MMOs and single player games is that MMOs require other real people to help you beat the big baddie of the time. Think about Dragon Age or Mass Effect for a minute. At the end of the day, it was the same exact gaming model as WoW, Everquest and TOR. The only difference is you played alone instead of with other people.

[Kaisernick]

i agree the end game while appeases some players will disapoint many with its wow like grind.

 

mnay things are needed to spice up the what to do after your story other than re-roll.

 

social items- things like pazzak and other stuff is needed to fill up those empty cantinas around the galaxy- i mean nar shaddar has a casino yet its only used for the few quests there.

 

tighter community- not an issue for bioware but ive noticed that other than fellow guildies very few people interact with each other around the various planets, thougth i cant think of a system for bioware to impliment that would help, if anyone does have ideas they should tell them of it.

 

space combat improvement- this isnt a request for free roaming space combat but more missions at the end which are more varied may help.

 

there a lots of things that bioware could do to improve it that wouldnt take forever to add, sitting would also help much maybe people would louncge around in areas more.

[Lerthan]

I agree with the OP and posted this in another thread, which got closed by a mod. I think the following is the culprit nowadays.

 

After playing online games sind MUDs and playing almost all of the major MMORPGs since the mid 90s, I am quite sure the genre is dead by now. All major titles cater to the casual gamers, which of course pose the majority of the player base.

 

The problem, that many players like me have is, that we played too many of those games, which all have the same course of action: level to max level, then grind gear. We simply are burnt out on that, that's it. Before WoW the MMORPG market was a niche one and getting to max level meant something and took a long time. Heck, even finding a quest was a chore, as there where no flashing question marks above the NPC's heads. Same counts for finding the quest goal. Today a lobotomized amoeba could level to the max level. Maybe this puzzling is we now long for and miss in every single of those newly released games, but simply forgot. So we jump from game to game, looking for the thrill we had so many years ago in the first MMORPGs.

 

Blizzard started to open the market for all players and made it easy to get into the mmorpg gameplay. And we, the old rpg players accepted that gameplay. We gladly accepted being handed out rewards without having to work for it, and forgot to have fun by actually playing, only striving for the next shiny purple. I and prolly many others like me, forgot to have fun in finding solutions to quests and other things. Heck, there are even games now which autowalk your char to the quest objective.

 

We only got what the game industry thought we wanted, because it worked since WoW. So I have to agree with many others, who stated that WoW broke the genre. I believe it to be true.

 

I have to agree, unfortunately most games on the market is all about getting to the end of the journey instead of the journey its self. While yes going and beating down a big bad raid boss is fun there needs to be more then just that. To be honest the best games are the ones that do have end game content but the focus is on the journey to the end game, not the end game its self.

 

To be honest so far this game at least has given a nod to the journey. Not enough but still better then what has been out there. And lets be honest, when the game becomes about the journey not the end game content the game becomes alive in a way it never can without it. Gone are the days where people explored the game content just to see what was around the next corner. Gone are the days where players could find cool stuff that while it dint do anything major was still cool to have and rare. Gone are the days where you would spend weeks hunting down a mob, not because he had anything cool on him but because very few people had found him and killed him.

 

The game that beats wow, will be the game that offers end game content and the journey in its content.

[dargor-]

Yes please, don't let this become the most successful game in MMO history and an icon of the genre for the next decade or so (and yes I know wow is merely a clone of everquest, but WoW gets all the chicks either way).

 

That would be horrible.

Edited February 10, 2012 by dargor-

[SpazeGoat]

It won't become the most successful MMO in history. Why? Because its too easy. I've heard of people getting from level 1-50 in 4-5 days. That's not the case for most people, I know, but give it another 6 months to a year. After people roll their alts and have done every quest 2-3 times, every flash-point 50 times, they'll lose interest and quit. There is no way Bio-ware will be able to churn out content patches that won't be chewed up and spit out within a month.

 

I'm playing an alt a now and its twice as hard to find groups for heroics quests and low-level flash-points then when I played through with my main. Not to mention I'm on a standard-heavy populated server. Some planets have only 15-20 people on them at peak hours. Peak hours at fleet there will be 170-200 people tops, mostly level 50s looking for groups for hard-modes. What happens when these people finish getting all their Columi gear and get bored?

 

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt when I say that I am going to wait until the big patch in March. See what they do with legacy. See what that brings to the table, then it will be clear to most people if its worth paying for another month or to say good-bye.

 

And yes, why not model your game after the most successful MMO in existence? Its not about the players, its about money. Its about maximizing profits. After Bioware has soaked up millions and have lost the bulk of subscriptions. They'll make it free-to-play and move on the next big money making scheme. And its not just Bioware, more and more companies go this route because to them, its the most profitable, most logical thing to do. Its a shame, but I think these companies just view their clients as cattle.