Mrcookjr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm going to start by saying that I have only gotten my guardian up to level 40. I've done PvE tanking, which I think is fine up to this point and I also have seriously tried to get in to PvP. On that note is where we need to address how crappy Guardians/Juggernauts are. I can't speak for Marauders but as the "Beefy" class in the game you would think that we should do some serious damage and take a beating up close. Consulars/Inquisitors get a shield that protects them for 30 secs but we get nothing close to that. Sabre Ward just isn't a good comparison. You have really no choice but to leap into combat and get gang busted while every other class in the game is sitting back trying to be not noticed and DPS like they are in a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashpower Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 supporting this well thought out post simply cuz I play a jugg too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 No they don't. You need to learn to play your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandorr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's a tank class. They are not supposed to do big damage. If you want to hit things hard, roll a dps class. Have you played as a sorc? Without a shield they'd be dead in 2 secs, they are that squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Melee in this game really need gear and to be level 50. We don't get the tools to combat ranged DPS until 40-50 for the most part. Game is hugely imbalanced towards ranged pre 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cite Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You have really no choice but to leap into combat and get gang busted while every other class in the game is sitting back trying to be not noticed and DPS like they are in a raid. Not gonna lie secretly when I don't have any raids to plunder I hop into a WZ and pretend Im healing a tank from a pillar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You think you should do serious damage and tank it up at the same time? You must be new to MMOs. How adorable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcuspasnicus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am a lvl 50 valor Jugg and honestly we need a nerf not a buff. Go to the Jugg forums and read some strats. We will mostly not top dam meters but we are serious utility forces to be reckoned with. A good Jugg can make or break the wz just like a good healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's a tank class. They are not supposed to do big damage. If you want to hit things hard, roll a dps class. Have you played as a sorc? Without a shield they'd be dead in 2 secs, they are that squishy. Except they suck at tanking badly. So the question is: What can they do if they can't tank and dps for crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yourfacehi Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Melee in this game really need gear and to be level 50. We don't get the tools to combat ranged DPS until 40-50 for the most part. Game is hugely imbalanced towards ranged pre 50. could have left off the pre 50 part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Eh?....I do just fine as a jugg dps in pvp, and I don't even do pvp majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalassin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As a the best geared tank on Krayt Dragon server.. you sir are either crazy or trollin.. we absolutely do not need a buff in the slightest. Maybe even a slight nerf.. I can solo all dungeons up to directive 7 with my healing companion out and that's only cause I need 2 clickers for bulwark so yea.. we are kinda broke but no one notices it thankfully. I'd recommend upgrading your gear and looking more in depth at the talent tree's if you are tanking the Immortal tree has some significant buffs for our damage reduction.. I can tell you that at level 50 I can tank through a bosses enrage on 8 man nightmare mode no problem.. it's helped us down nightmare Soa a couple of times. It's just learning how to combine the different skills. For the DPS aspects you REALLY have to pay attention to the tree cause they hide some nifty abilities in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Agree with some of the others. They do not need buffed. Reason they are tanks and can take massive damage so to balance do lower DPS. It is like the healers. They have low DPS but can last just as long as any tank can. DPS classes on the other hand do high DPS but would die very fast if attempted to tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturgess Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 None of this addresses the fact that the JG/SJ is the lowest damage tank of any of the tank specs, and has the disadvantage of being effectively entirely melee based. And yeah, I have level 50 high PvP ranked JG with almost entirely Champion gear, so I'm not some scrub here. Do we have some awesome? Sure. Do we need some tweaks? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm going to start by saying that I have only gotten my guardian up to level 40. I've done PvE tanking, which I think is fine up to this point and I also have seriously tried to get in to PvP. On that note is where we need to address how crappy Guardians/Juggernauts are. I can't speak for Marauders but as the "Beefy" class in the game you would think that we should do some serious damage and take a beating up close. Consulars/Inquisitors get a shield that protects them for 30 secs but we get nothing close to that. Sabre Ward just isn't a good comparison. You have really no choice but to leap into combat and get gang busted while every other class in the game is sitting back trying to be not noticed and DPS like they are in a raid. what? my jugg is level 30 in quest gear, and i can take 2-3 people wailing on me while popping cooldowns for 10-15 seconds before i die unsupported... my advice to you is to learn how to rotate your cooldowns. they are how you mitigate damage... tanks are not there to deal damage but spam our snare, and keep enemies off our allies, and GUARDING healers! be suprised how fast a healer will start healing you if you put guard on them and support them. sorry a tank cant deal damage and have high survivability to that would make them BROKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laslaya Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's a tank class. They are not supposed to do big damage. If you want to hit things hard, roll a dps class. Have you played as a sorc? Without a shield they'd be dead in 2 secs, they are that squishy. There are only 2-[[TWO]] dps classes in each faction. How is this class a "tank" class and assassins, vanguards, etc, aren't? How are mercs, sorcs, etc able to do good dps when they should be considered "healing" classes by your vague definition? Guardians/Juggernauts are classes with one tanking tree and TWO dps trees. If tanking was the core of the class they would have would at least have two tanking trees or no DPS tree at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 None of this addresses the fact that the JG/SJ is the lowest damage tank of any of the tank specs, and has the disadvantage of being effectively entirely melee based. And yeah, I have level 50 high PvP ranked JG with almost entirely Champion gear, so I'm not some scrub here. Do we have some awesome? Sure. Do we need some tweaks? Absolutely. You have the most mobility of any tank. It evens out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessirin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Except they suck at tanking badly. So the question is: What can they do if they can't tank and dps for crap? You must have some sucky juggernaut tanks on your server. And in case you are one, I'm glad you're not on VZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 There are only 2-[[TWO]] dps classes in each faction. How is this class a "tank" class and assassins, vanguards, etc, aren't? How are mercs, sorcs, etc able to do good dps when they should be considered "healing" classes by your vague definition? Guardians/Juggernauts are classes with one tanking tree and TWO dps trees. If tanking was the core of the class they would have would at least have two tanking trees or no DPS tree at all. Yes it has 2 DPS class but you are NOT taking into account you have heavy armor not medium or light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Smith jugg needs to take more dps or give more. Its fine if they don't do a lot of damage but a tank should not be THAT easy to kill no matter what group buffs you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulukord Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Guardians/juggernauts are probably the worst classes in the game for pve. 2nd worse for pvp right in front of gunslinger/sniper. Vanguards/Powertech and Shadow/Assassin are better tanks and every other class is better DPS. Not to mention BW went with the typical MMO approach of giving melee dps such a disadvantage in boss fights. le sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Yes it has 2 DPS class but you are NOT taking into account you have heavy armor not medium or light. So? What does armor have to do with anything? If your a dps spec in a jugg you can still die quick regardless of whatever armor you got. Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanscholo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Id be waiting until i was 50 in some decent gear before i started making comparisons between classes. Melee is always more difficult in MMO's.. there are reasons that go beyond buff and nerf for that, they are also the most rewarding when played well and with good team work. This time around i wanted to play a ranged DPS because i didnt want the stress of melee. If you really dont like having to charge into certain death playing a tank is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckoneful Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Guardians/Juggs are THE BEST pvp support class in the game right now, if you aren't getting nearly every medal imaginable in WZs right now you're doing something wrong. Pretty much every Imp BM farm team on my realm has a pocket Juggernaut and they always have 11-13 medals every single match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Id be waiting until i was 50 in some decent gear before i started making comparisons between classes. Melee is always more difficult in MMO's.. there are reasons that go beyond buff and nerf for that, they are also the most rewarding when played well and with good team work. This time around i wanted to play a ranged DPS because i didnt want the stress of melee. If you really dont like having to charge into certain death playing a tank is not for you. A well armored tank should take more damage. Juggernaut is more like a Warden from Lotro: not taking enough damage or doing enough to offset the ease with which dps classes slash through them. The difference in damage dealt between a warrior and a jugg is clearly apparent. The difference in resistance is negligable. Edited February 9, 2012 by Comfterbilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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