Blotter Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ROLE playing game, as in you pick a ROLE and you play it. Not ROLL playing game, as in you get to re-ROLL your toon constantly whenever the mood suits you or if you think you've found a way to exploit that mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 what i dont get, is whay are people so adverse to there being more play options? why should we be forced into a single role when each and every class has 3 talent trees to choose from? dual specs are needed. healers are penalised, they solo more slowly in pve, and they gain less medals in pvp. what benefit then, is there to staying as a healer? (i imagine this also applies to tanks) let us choose how we want to play - options are a good thing. You're not forced into a single role. You're just charged for it to limit you and prevent you from abusing it. Can't wait for th eflame wars to start over whether people should be allowed to role on items for the spec that they're not currently using.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 healers are penalised, they solo more slowly in pve, and they gain less medals in pvp. what benefit then, is there to staying as a healer? (i imagine this also applies to tanks) let us choose how we want to play - options are a good thing. The first is simply not true. I blow thru quests without a hitch. The second is definitely true...total screw job on medals for doing what is arguably the most important thing in PvP: keeping people alive and in the fight instead of waiting behind th elockout barrier for the timer to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodulo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The first is simply not true. I blow thru quests without a hitch. The second is definitely true...total screw job on medals for doing what is arguably the most important thing in PvP: keeping people alive and in the fight instead of waiting behind th elockout barrier for the timer to run. There you have it. As I slowly approach valor 60 I won't even heal anymore I switch from trinity to damage. Why? The current valor incentives are so high for the dps role that it's just not worth it. I can make as much and sometimes a little more valor during a losing huttball match as damage versus a healing role in a winning match. I'm not even going to talk about 11-12 medals as dps during a win. Therefore I re-talent. My gripe is not the credits but rebinding my mouse and keyboard each time as well as the hotbar and having to respend talent points and visiting the fleet ...for a broken mechanic in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSniper Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 yeah that is another issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZarquon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 First off, I want to say, I play a 31/7/3 sorc healer and have never respec'ed him. If dual spec is implemented, I will get it at the first opportunity and use it whenever I pvp or wish/need to fill a DPS role. That being said, I don't think it's necessary. The argument that healers and tanks are gimped out and more difficult to level, I don't find particularly true. I personally find it to be far more fun to play a dps class than it is to play a healer for solo content, but with the addition of companions, TOR has made solo healing perfectly viable. As a healer I can even solo most heroic 2+ content that was my level. For everyone who argues that leveling as a healer or tank is slower than a dps, I agree, it is. But there in lies a fundamental point, the advantage of taking the extra time to level as a healer/tank is that when you want to PUG, groups are nearly always looking for your roles. For those who are complaining that they can't just switch to a healer/tank/DPS role at will in order to fill a PUG or even for a guild party, why not tell the party members, you'd be happy to switch to that role...if the remaining 3 split the cost for your to respec. Shelling out 100k credits (which isn't even that much) yourself is harder than having each of them give you 35k. Or, alternatively, pay the respec cost, but for doing so, you get first dibs on any loot (assuming the group has more than one of your class). Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdstephen Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Wrong, you get ONE free respec a week (or maybe its going a week without respecing, since I didn't get one Tues.). The price does not reset. It does reset. I've respecced dozens of times, and after my weekly free one my next respec cost under 10,000 credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSniper Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It does reset. I've respecced dozens of times, and after my weekly free one my next respec cost under 10,000 credits. It must be a bug for me (and for plenty of others in this thread and in game). I respec, it says this one is free, the next after the free one is just as much as much as they were before. Edited February 9, 2012 by SinisterSniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luewen Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You have no idea how many times ive said this my friend. It falls on def ears. All they want is "i win" easy modes. Fact is TOR is more of an RPG then any other MMO to date (story, companions, choices etc)...and they want to ruin it. Id rather they stick to the blandness of WoW, Rift and the like and let us enjoy our mmoRPG. its not hard to find tanks and healers at all. Not in my experience. Join bigger guilds, make more friends...take your pick...the solutions are out there. Being social is a prerogative if you play an MMO... tanks and healers are out there in bundles, you people are just to lazy to be bothered. IT doesnt matter how big your guild is if everyone is bored of running same fp's again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Above posters don't play as healers, don't listen to them! There is no reason why we healers or even tank should have to pay that high of a price when other MMOS already have a duel spec in game (AND I DO NOT MEAN AC SWITCHING). We have 3 talent trees to choose from, why are we penalized if we want to play the other 2? I switch to DPS when I do my dailies and quest. Healing spec takes too damn long and its not fun while out soloing. There is no reason to have the prices set as high as they are period. I laughed at the bolded part in that it infers that anyone who is against something doesn't play a healer and states nothing they say is worth listening to. There is a reason: spec right now is intended to be an important choice that you can pay to change, and how often you change your mind determines how much you have to pay. Just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't valid. Oh, right....other MMOs have dual spec. And some of the people in that community are now demanding tri+ spec. If you do not like to pay 200k for a respec, then roll a character for the other role. I'm not saying whether it's easy or hard, but in the long run it will work out better and give you more options than trying to shoehorn everything you want to do into one character, and more options is better than fewer options. Edited February 10, 2012 by terminova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 now i could bandy this back and forward with you all day but when you get down to it, the pros for dual spec far outweigh the cons That is your opinion and one not shared by all. Much of it comes down to how much weight you give to the value MMO vs RPG. I suspect that those who prefer the former will agree with you, and those who prefer the later will not. One important fact is that the game currently allows you to switch specs. So really, the only argument is to how much that respec should cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSniper Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 That is your opinion and one not shared by all. Much of it comes down to how much weight you give to the value MMO vs RPG. I suspect that those who prefer the former will agree with you, and those who prefer the later will not. One important fact is that the game currently allows you to switch specs. So really, the only argument is to how much that respec should cost. Its not MMO vs RPG. If you are looking for a super realistic game to RP as, a person can continue to learn at all times without arbitrarily spending large sums of money to instantly gain a new set of skills and knowledge. Right now, it is significantly easier to gain valor/medals in game as DPS. Healers still need to tag targets to get valor in Ilum (not to menition someone in their group needs to get the killing blow). Ilum in its current form is useless for healers, with the vast majority of players getting pulled and instant gibbed. What about being able to get the daily done for Ilum, a DPS, they can at least solo it; a healer either needs a group or has to racetrack it done. Also, the fact that in warzones its easier to get medals. This is just an example. This is one of the biggest quality of life improvements that they can make for ALL players. If you want to be super serious RP, then don't get it. Pros: More players to choose from for dungeons, faster dungeon times, saved money over time for a lot of players, warzone valor, Ilum pvp, operations that require respecs on nightmare are faster, and easier to do dailies(pvp and pve). Probably a thousand more I'm not mentioning Cons: The only real one that I have seen is that people wont be able to RP as good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 "The first is simply not true. I blow thru quests without a hitch. The second is definitely true...total screw job on medals for doing what is arguably the most important thing in PvP: keeping people alive and in the fight instead of waiting behind th elockout barrier for the timer to run." as someone who started as heal spec and later swapped to dps i can tell you that leveling becomes a good deal quicker in dps spec, sololing as a healer is not difficult but it is slower and thats the point i was pressing at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 "There is a reason: spec right now is intended to be an important choice that you can pay to change, and how often you change your mind determines how much you have to pay. Just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't valid." the only valid part is that its a poor design. for one thing, the price at the end is faaar too high, and for another you have to change your hotbars round each time. i would settle for being able to save at least one more set of specs, that cost say 20k (at the top end) to respec and have my hotbars swap over. as things stand i really do not respec often (though i would like to). i would much prefer to be able to do both things stated above via a a ui window and for free. "Oh, right....other MMOs have dual spec. And some of the people in that community are now demanding tri+ spec." more choice is never a bad thing. why should we be limited? none of the reasons i have heard against dual spec have held any weight with me. If you do not like to pay 200k for a respec, then roll a character for the other role. I'm not saying whether it's easy or hard, but in the long run it will work out better and give you more options than trying to shoehorn everything you want to do into one character, and more options is better than fewer options. this here is absolute rubbish. people who like to roll alts will do so, but that does not mean those who wish to play 1 main character should be forced into it. this is probably the most rediculous arguement i have seen in this thread so far. you say it gives more options, like you think choice is a good thing, yet you dont agree with the fact that dual specs ARE more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrah Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Not including dual spec is not taking away choices, it's making the choices you make more meaningful. I hate it when you give you're character a complete 180 on a whim, because then, it's no longer the same character. Respeccing to try out or to evolve your play style, falls under development and evolving, while changing specs like you would change underwear undermines the spec system and makes the old character not the old character. Also, it's a very munchkin-like think to do. I am all for min maxing, but again, you guys don't want to play specialists or jacks of all trades, Masters of none, you just want to play masters of all trades. Get over yourselves. You are not masters of all trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) There is a reason: spec right now is intended to be an important choice that you can pay to change, and how often you change your mind determines how much you have to pay. Just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't valid. the only valid part is that its a poor design. for one thing, the price at the end is far too high, and for another you have to change your hotbars round each time. i would settle for being able to save at least one more set of specs, that cost say 20k (at the top end) to respec and have my hotbars swap over. as things stand i really do not respec often (though i would like to). i would much prefer to be able to do both things stated above via a ui window and for free. The bolded part is your biased and highly subjective opinion, not fact. From what I can gather, the price isn't too high, and is intended to limit the number of times people change their characters spec in a given day and make them consider whether it's worth it or not. Just because you want to do it for free whenever you want and have everything done for you doesn't mean the system is broken or of poor design. Oh, right....other MMOs have dual spec. And some of the people in that community are now demanding tri+ spec. more choice is never a bad thing. why should we be limited? none of the reasons i have heard against dual spec have held any weight with me. You don't need dual spec to have options as you can respec. It isn't like they are telling you that you cannot change your characters spec, they are just saying you have to pay for it. If you do not like to pay 200k for a respec, then roll a character for the other role. I'm not saying whether it's easy or hard, but in the long run it will work out better and give you more options than trying to shoehorn everything you want to do into one character, and more options is better than fewer options. this here is absolute rubbish. people who like to roll alts will do so, but that does not mean those who wish to play 1 main character should be forced into it. this is probably the most ridiculous argument i have seen in this thread so far. you say it gives more options, like you think choice is a good thing, yet you dont agree with the fact that dual specs ARE more options. No, dual spec doesn't give you more options. What can you possibly do with your character with dual spec that you can do without dual spec? Nothing except not spend credits respeccing. That's all. You just think it gives you more options, but the fact is it doesn't. Oh, and learn to use the quote button, it works wonders. Edited February 10, 2012 by terminova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maoxx Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) No, dual spec doesn't give you more options. What can you possibly do with your character with dual spec that you can do without dual spec? Nothing except not spend credits respeccing. That's all. You just think it gives you more options, but the fact is it doesn't. Oh, and learn to use the quote button, it works wonders. How about in raids that can switch from requiring 1 tank for most of the instance but certain encounters being made easier with 2 tanks? But for the rest of the instance that other tank either sits or pays to respec back and forth. Enrage timers aren't friendly in some encounters to allow you to have that one person doing gimp dps, especially when you first start learning the encounter. Edited February 10, 2012 by Maoxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSniper Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 The bolded part is your biased and highly subjective opinion, not fact. From what I can gather, the price isn't too high, and is intended to limit the number of times people change their characters spec in a given day and make them consider whether it's worth it or not. Just because you want to do it for free whenever you want and have everything done for you doesn't mean the system is broken or of poor design. Who says anyone is asking for free respecs? I don't think one person here is asking for that. No, dual spec doesn't give you more options. What can you possibly do with your character with dual spec that you can do without dual spec? Nothing except not spend credits respeccing. That's all. You just think it gives you more options, but the fact is it doesn't. and time is a huge one. Time farming and an example being able to dual spec dps to tank or vice versa before a raid boss. That breaks nothing just saves the time and money for the tank to run back and respec for a fight. It does give the community more options. More people will have a secondary spec as a tank/healer and thus we have more tanks and healers to pick from for dungeons! No one in their right might right now would respec for a dungeon or even a few of them. It is just to expensive. Have no one but dps online to queue with for a warzone? Dual spec heals till they log off. These options do not exist with todays system. If you claim that they exist, ask a dps juggernaut/assassin/powertech to tank for you for one flashpoint, just one. I'm either for dual spec or a lower respec price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinediks Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 skill trees should have 3 specs to choose from at any given time. Even if you do have to visit a trainer or the respec guy to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How about in raids that can switch from requiring 1 tank for most of the instance but certain encounters being made easier with 2 tanks? But for the rest of the instance that other tank either sits or pays to respec back and forth. Enrage timers aren't friendly in some encounters to allow you to have that one person doing gimp dps, especially when you first start learning the encounter. Sometimes you just have to go with what you have or take the time to send someone to respec for the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree with everyone who says limiting your playstyle options is a good idea. Everyone should just pick a tree and play it forever. Frankly, I'm even against playing alts or swapping companions for a different experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree with everyone who says limiting your playstyle options is a good idea. Everyone should just pick a tree and play it forever. Frankly, I'm even against playing alts or swapping companions for a different experience. Amen. Back in my day we didnt have companions. Or computers. Or that newfangled.... whatsitcalledagain? Oh yeah, electricity. Back then we grabbed a sword, and BY GOD we took our roles seriously. The death penalty was... well... death.... /rolls my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maoxx Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sometimes you just have to go with what you have or take the time to send someone to respec for the fight. Oh I see so your not against somebody changing their spec on a whim as long as it has a high cost/time for that one player. So really your argument against it is what then? RP reasons? Your already OK with respec to another role, why not just give them player a high cost ability to swap with say 10 min CD involved? And by high cost, we'll say 500k credits to buy that ability? I don't know about others but as a tank/dpser I would love that and would be happy to pay that much credits for that. Hell at this point I'd pay close to 1 million for it. You can't argue about balance if your ok with respecs. So why not just cut the middle man out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Who says anyone is asking for free respecs? I don't think one person here is asking for that. i would much prefer to be able to do both things stated above via a a ui window and for free. You were saying? and time is a huge one. Time farming and an example being able to dual spec dps to tank or vice versa before a raid boss. That breaks nothing just saves the time and money for the tank to run back and respec for a fight. It does give the community more options. More people will have a secondary spec as a tank/healer and thus we have more tanks and healers to pick from for dungeons! No one in their right might right now would respec for a dungeon or even a few of them. It is just to expensive. No, it won't fix a problem with a lack of tanks or healers. If someone does not want to tank, they won't. If they don't want to heal, they won't. WoW has Dual spec and there are TONS of DPS many of which are classes that are capable of tanking and healing. I personally had a paladin I took as DPS a lot because it was funner, a priest and shammy I didn't heal with not because I couldn't dual spec for healing but because I wanted to DPS. Have no one but dps online to queue with for a warzone? Dual spec heals till they log off. These options do not exist with todays system. If you claim that they exist, ask a dps juggernaut/assassin/powertech to tank for you for one flashpoint, just one. I'm either for dual spec or a lower respec price. The options do exist, you just have to pay for it. Just because you don't want to pay the asking price doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Amen. Back in my day we didnt have companions. Or computers. Or that newfangled.... whatsitcalledagain? Oh yeah, electricity. Back then we grabbed a sword, and BY GOD we took our roles seriously. The death penalty was... well... death.... /rolls my eyes. Exactly. Gamers are just lazy nowadays. I had to walk in the snow for 5 miles, uphill both ways, in a pair of long johns carrying a big sword hoping I'd return to see another sunrise. Now people are thinking about changing the way they play, with the same character?! May as well call this game Hello Kitty in Space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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