[Proof] How much a shield absorbs [Screenshot]

[GrandMike]

My Vanguard destroy's Sorcerer's (in the sub 49 Bracket) at Rank 36, Valor 34 I've yet to not be able to kill a sorc, double bubble or not. They have bubble, I have 25% damage reduction, they have various CC I have 8 sec CC immunity, they speed burst away, I harpoon them right back in again.

 

A Sorcerer's best ability, is making the most of the terrain, circling around the pillars in voidstar, gaining height advantages in huttball etc. You get that Sorcerer face on and he should drop easily. Just people don't want to work for their kills.

 

Survivability on my Vanguard is atleast 3x better than that of my Sorc. I regularly pull in 10+ medals on my Vanguard, whereas 5/8 is normal on the Sorc.

 

Lies! Sorc/Sages are immortal beasts that kill other players just by looking at them!

[Karenai]

You can twist it as much as you like. There is no magic 9k shield, like many claim.

Expect the shield to be lower for dps Sorcs/Sages.

 

I would gladly test it, but we almost never get Huttball.

 

I always asumed around 3k. Now we have the first hard numbers. Nice work.

[Aetou]

Isn't the issue that it takes 3.5k Elemental damage to break the bubble rather than 3.5k damage? Elemental damage bypasses most forms of mitigation so the amount of, say, energy damage required to break it is always going to be higher (perhaps not that much higher but still.)

 

Anyway, the real issue with bubbles isn't their existence so much as the fact that they can be used so frequently and on so many different people. Compare them to the equally squishy Scoundrel's Defensive Screen which absorbs a meagre 1500 damage, can only be used on yourself, lasts less time and can be used less frequently even if talented.

 

While 9k shields is probably an exageration the fact that you can preemptively heal your team for 3.5k each at very little cost is still exceptionally powerful on a class that already has absurd amounts of healing/ranged dps and utility. Giving Shield a standard 45s CD would pretty much fix it I think. Still very useful for the Sage to protect themselves or save somebody else, no more seeing entire teams buffed with an extra 3.5k health (that we don't even get 'credit' for breaking.)

[Vales]

Isn't the issue that it takes 3.5k Elemental damage to break the bubble rather than 3.5k damage? Elemental damage bypasses most forms of mitigation so the amount of, say, energy damage required to break it is always going to be higher (perhaps not that much higher but still.)

 

Anyway, the real issue with bubbles isn't their existence so much as the fact that they can be used so frequently and on so many different people. Compare them to the equally squishy Scoundrel's Defensive Screen which absorbs a meagre 1500 damage, can only be used on yourself, lasts less time and can be used less frequently even if talented.

 

While 9k shields is probably an exageration the fact that you can preemptively heal your team for 3.5k each at very little cost is still exceptionally powerful on a class that already has absurd amounts of healing/ranged dps and utility. Giving Shield a standard 45s CD would pretty much fix it I think. Still very useful for the Sage to protect themselves or save somebody else, no more seeing entire teams buffed with an extra 3.5k health (that we don't even get 'credit' for breaking.)

 

Excuse me but shield for non Healers cost 65 force spamming it as much as possible will get me oof in mere 10-15 seconds.

[Falkonwing]

Even with detailed information, the flames will go on.. it's what they do..

 

@OP: Thanks for the Information, it was time someone found out the actual absorb values so the lunatic speculations stop.

[Krystaf]

What makes bubble even better is that if you cast it on a peep with full hp, it adds effective hp for the amount absorbed. Heals can only heal you up to your max hp.

[BadNewzzz]

Best healing skill?

 

You're not even trying anymore. There have been plenty of screenshots of sorcs/sages doing 1 million healing in a wz

 

Standing in fire and healing yourself, is useless and only ruin it for your own team.

Show me a sorc/sage healing 1 mil on alderaan... show me one healing for 500k...

[Elysion]

Ive personally dropped a fresh bubble and done ~1k damage in addition on an ambush crit.

 

So i would say 3-3.5k sounds about right to me.

[scootle]

What I did was to enter a brand new warzone (huttball in this case), stay behind and let everyone do their PvP thing. I made sure no one was around me and that I was out of combat.

 

I casted a shield on myself and walked through fire. The fire consumed my shield and I received a 2.5K healing medal. This is how I knew "healing" was accounted for.

 

All the other semantics aside... you're saying all sorc/sage basically get a free 2.5k healing medal just by casting bubble on any full health target and then taking a tick of fire? that sure seems a bit bunk...

 

Everyone else has to cast the heal on a target that actually took damage (and not overheal) to get the healing medal... e.g. "dps" classes trying to just add the 2.5k heal to their medal count.

[EternalFinality]

You can twist it as much as you like. There is no magic 9k shield, like many claim.

 

No one has ever claimed this.

 

If they did, they were undoubtedly a Sorc themselves trolling it up with hyperbole to try and distract from their blatantly overpowered ability.

[CommandoPower]

Even with detailed information, the flames will go on.. it's what they do..

 

@OP: Thanks for the Information, it was time someone found out the actual absorb values so the lunatic speculations stop.

 

It's not detailed information. It's a red herring that is only useful information with combined with a plethora of other information that was not provided at all.

 

 

 

It's like saying my car can only go up to 35 mph. But neglecting to mention that was the result of it being out of gas and coasting down a hill.

[Raque]

No one has ever claimed this.

LOL, people have claimed it absorbs 20k damage before.

 

It's not detailed information. It's a red herring that is only useful information with combined with a plethora of other information that was not provided at all.

 

It's like saying my car can only go up to 35 mph. But neglecting to mention that was the result of it being out of gas and coasting down a hill.

You have got to be kidding me, what he proved FITS the equations all over the web that show how much it absorbs, it is just an in game test proving what we already knew.

[EternalFinality]

LOL, people have claimed it absorbs 20k damage before.

 

No, people have claimed it absorbs 2000kk damage!!!

Edited February 8, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Treplos]

I would like to ask again:

 

How much "bonus healing" do the OP have?

 

And how much "bonus healing" would a BM sorc/sage healer have?

 

I would assume no less than 450-500?

[Mudou]

Hmm. I may have to take a fraps of using shoot first with fletchette round loaded on a sorc, critting for 3500 and that damn bubble still persisting through at least a blaster whip (usually around 600-1200 damage on blaster whip).

 

It may be 3500 for equal expertise rating/base, but for those poor bastards with 0-200 expertise, that bubble sure does seem infinite.

[Delavager]

It's not detailed information. It's a red herring that is only useful information with combined with a plethora of other information that was not provided at all.

 

It's like saying my car can only go up to 35 mph. But neglecting to mention that was the result of it being out of gas and coasting down a hill.

 

Fail. Aside from straight up lying, it proves very well what it absorbs.

 

The OP wasn't claiming fairness or balance, they just PURELY STATED FACT as to what the absorb was.

 

Someone posts "Shield heals 7k"...wrong you are lying.

Someone posts "Shield only heals 2k"...wrong you are lying.

 

Basically the OP did us a service, without being biased about it at all.

[Raque]

Hmm. I may have to take a fraps of using shoot first with fletchette round loaded on a sorc, critting for 3500 and that damn bubble still persisting through at least a blaster whip (usually around 600-1200 damage on blaster whip).

 

It may be 3500 for equal expertise rating/base, but for those poor bastards with 0-200 expertise, that bubble sure does seem infinite.

If that was possible there would already be 100s of videos of it.

 

Also, I am sure that 10% reduced damage from expertise makes the bubble feel 11.1% larger.

[Vales]

It's not detailed information. It's a red herring that is only useful information with combined with a plethora of other information that was not provided at all.

 

 

 

It's like saying my car can only go up to 35 mph. But neglecting to mention that was the result of it being out of gas and coasting down a hill.

 

This is the best he could do as a practical test.

Tell me how did he downplay the absorb rate of the shield to the degree you used in your silly example?

[Mudou]

If that was possible there would already be 100s of videos of it.

 

Also, I am sure that 10% reduced damage from expertise makes the bubble feel 11.1% larger.

 

Then I am very unlucky and seem to only attack sorcs when their original bubble debuff has worn off and they can recast another.

 

I could have sworn you cant cast a bubble again in 10 seconds but I could be very wrong, it just seems they always have a bubble up and breaking it, interrupting heals (heal spec or not) and still trying to live through their dots/instant casts is just silly.

[Eyevan]

Does the shield have no damage mitigation? I mean, does the shield inherit your character's damage mitigation such as your Expertise stat?

 

If it does, that needs to be factored into the test.

[MaxiO]

EVERYONE benefits from sorc/sage bubble. Well, those who find themselves grouped with a decent sorc/sage healer do. The numbers are irrelevant.

 

Unless you make a point of right-clicking any bubble that is cast on you, you're guilty of hypocrisy.

 

Likewise, any argument revolving around 1v1 is redundant. If you can't solo another player during those ultra-rare encounters where it's an actual 1v1, all CDs are available and both players start on 100% HP, revise your strategy. It's highly probable you made a mistake.

[Sirolos]

The problem is not the bubble itself, but how much it can absorb while a Sorc/Sage is a hybrid spec. Sure a full healing spec should have an absord of 3200-4000, no problem. But a spec that lets you do very good damage, should be around 1500 absorb. With the monster toolkit they have its pretty unreasonable as a hybrid spec to have such a powerfull shield ontop of hefty damage and sound healing, not to mention the plethora of other utilities the hybrid spec provides.

 

Or just put a 1.5 Min CD on it, and have a talent to reduce the CD deep into the healing tree.

 

But then you need to compensate for the damage they output.

 

A hybrid spec does great AOE damage. its the reason why every sorc and merc top the charts.

 

but if hitting a target for 3.3k is too hard for your class, you need to find the class that can do it and reroll.

** Operative

Assassin

Mercenary

Murauder

Sniper

All have a way to pop a bubble in 1-2 hits

 

Getting through a bubble is not hard, and im glad someone finally busted the myth of it being the 10k absorb hyperbolers claim it to be.

 

Secondly

http://youtu.be/ZA7YuWuIF-k

 

This is a full balance/Madness spec

 

Your not going to see the mythical 5k hits

If a Sorc/Sage is topping charts most likely its using TK wave on your group, because they stuck together like bee's in a hive.

[CommandoPower]

You have got to be kidding me, what he proved FITS the equations all over the web that show how much it absorbs, it is just an in game test proving what we already knew.

 

Which is entirely USELESS without applying it practically. Ok it fits with the formula, I never argued that it did or it didn't. What I'm concerned about is how much damage does it mitigate practically? My crude analogy failed so I must bring about maths to illustrate my point. Bear with me, it's unfortunately a much longer route.

 

 

 

Lets take 2 people, a sorc and a powertech. Lets assume a Gunslinger crits each of these players for 5,000 baseline damage. You go sniper boy!! For simplicities sake lets not include armor pen.

 

A Gunslinger fires and crits for an amazing 4k dmg on the sorceror, aww snap that hurt. Or it would have if it had done more than 800 damage (3,200 hp shield). But now that shield is down and the sorc is primed for pain unless he pre-shielded. The sorceror is running 20% kinetic/energy mitigation.

 

End result: 5,000 dmg * 0.8 = 4,000 dmg dealt. (20% armor mitigation).

Effective shield protection: 4,000 base damage was blocked by shield thanks to mitigation.

(4,000 * 0.8 = 3,200)

 

 

 

Miraculous luck strikes and the sniper crits on the powertech and it doesn't get tagged by the tanks own personal shielding. Lets say he is running 50% mitigation and didn't pick up and %dmg reduction talents. The gunslinger hits him for 2,500 damage, not even breaking the bubble. An already tough target made that much tougher.

 

End result: 5,000 dmg * 0.5 = 2,500 damage absorbed by shield. 700 damage remains on shield. (50% armor mitigation)

Effective shield protection: 6,400 base damage can be blocked by shield thanks to mitigation. (6,400 * 0.5 = 3,200).

 

 

 

 

This is why you must know how effective something is PRACTICALLY. If mitigation does indeed apply then higher mitigation reaps vastly greater rewards from a shield. Thus if you consider the shield balanced in respect to a sorc's survivability it would undoubtedly be imbalanced in respect to a tanks survivability.

 

The irony is the counter to such ARMOR mitigation would be to use internal or elemental damage. The buff on sorcs/sages increases internal/elemental mitigation which would then stack with the tanks small internal/elemental mitigation increase. Would take a good set of testing to even see how much more effective, if any (kinetic/energy attacks have higher baseline damage), such attacks would be in that situation.

[Delekii]

This is why you must know how effective something is PRACTICALLY. If mitigation does indeed apply then higher mitigation reaps vastly greater rewards from a shield. Thus if you consider the shield balanced in respect to a sorc's survivability it would undoubtedly be imbalanced in respect to a tanks survivability.

 

While what you are saying is true, it is also true of every single point of healing you receive.

 

Every point of mitigation you have increases your effective health, and thereby the value of healing on you, by the same degree. If I have 0% mitigation and you have 50% mitigation, every point of hp you have is worth 50% more, and every point of healing you receive is worth 50% more.

[BobaFurz]

EVERYONE benefits from sorc/sage bubble. Well, those who find themselves grouped with a decent sorc/sage healer do. The numbers are irrelevant.

 

Unless you make a point of right-clicking any bubble that is cast on you, you're guilty of hypocrisy.

 

Likewise, any argument revolving around 1v1 is redundant. If you can't solo another player during those ultra-rare encounters where it's an actual 1v1, all CDs are available and both players start on 100% HP, revise your strategy. It's highly probable you made a mistake.

 

 

 

 

We have Guard for this, why should bubbles be allowed on other players.