Madness is now the PvP spec

[venjinze]

I would shock before you begin melee, you'll hit 10% harder. Its counter-intuitive from Deception, but it works very well.

 

I will also death field and Tab Discharge in a group of people. I get a lot of damage rolling, which also generates a lot of healing, then I'll start focusing targets down while off-target interrupting the healer and CCing them if possible.

 

I have to get better at looking for Raze procs, but with a 60% chance, I should be able to just thrash once and attempt to cast CD, but overall, I'm having a heap of fun with this spec. It is a true melee caster now, and was what I wanted to play from the start, not a lightsaber yo-yo wielding dude in red goth raver gear.

 

yea im used to building up my inductions w/ voltaic then hitting shock haha , raze is annoying, the buffs are too small, hopefully the UI changes (resizing / moving etc) will help.

Edited February 10, 2012 by venjinze

[Sabbathius]

People like you are why we can't cap doors in void or points on alderaan. Making people essentially immune to long duration CC is not worth the extra damage and healing you receive....

 

That's the general problem with players in SWTOR PvP.

 

1. Nobody uses CC. I tried to get my team to send ONE guy to cap the door. And everyone else to just CC the enemy as they spawn. You think they did it? Heck no. As long as they themselves aren't taking damage, nobody used CC. At all.

 

2. Everyone only cares about the damage done. Because that's how morons assign MVP votes - see who did most damage. Which means tab-discharge is king.

 

I said this in another thread, but I don't think I've ever seen THIS many inept morons in PvP in ANY MMO. And that includes WoW. Yeah, you get some monkeys in WoW BGs that don't know their lower backside from a hole in the ground, but it's maybe 20-30% of the team, at most. Here? 90% of the team has absolutely no brains, and lacks any tactical thinking whatsoever.

 

I once spent an entire evening trying to get people to RUN PAST ME in huttball. I'm serious. I tell them "I'll grab the ball, go ahead past me, I'll pass to you, you score". Think even one of them did it?! HELL NO. It's like there's an invisible barrier on me, and they can't go past me no matter what. Then one guy with a knockback runs in and sends us all to the pit. GG.

 

It's one of the main reasons I find myself logging in less and less. Where did these people come from?!

Edited February 10, 2012 by Sabbathius

[xdoctor]

That's the general problem with players in SWTOR PvP.

 

1. Nobody uses CC. I tried to get my team to send ONE guy to cap the door. And everyone else to just CC the enemy as they spawn. You think they did it? Heck no. As long as they themselves aren't taking damage, nobody used CC. At all.

 

2. Everyone only cares about the damage done. Because that's how morons assign MVP votes - see who did most damage. Which means tab-discharge is king.

 

I said this in another thread, but I don't think I've ever seen THIS many inept morons in PvP in ANY MMO. And that includes WoW. Yeah, you get some monkeys in WoW BGs that don't know their lower backside from a hole in the ground, but it's maybe 20-30% of the team, at most. Here? 90% of the team has absolutely no brains, and lacks any tactical thinking whatsoever.

 

I once spent an entire evening trying to get people to RUN PAST ME in huttball. I'm serious. I tell them "I'll grab the ball, go ahead past me, I'll pass to you, you score". Think even one of them did it?! HELL NO. It's like there's an invisible barrier on me, and they can't go past me no matter what. Then one guy with a knockback runs in and sends us all to the pit. GG.

 

It's one of the main reasons I find myself logging in less and less. Where did these people come from?!

 

I never played WoW, but I agree with you on this. Every time I get the ball, I look for someone to pass to and there's rarely anyone from my team between me and the goal line, even if I'm at center field. The other side of that is that for some reason, when someone else has the ball, they'll stand there and wait for the fire to die and get killed rather than passing it across the fire to me so our team can score. Makes no sense. Then you get to Civil War and five guys run up and try to activate the turret at the same time instead of slowing down the enemies so one guy can secure it.

 

Trouble is, no one is seeing this as a team activity. Unless you're queued with a group of people you know, chances are you'll be playing with people who don't really think about anything but whacking another character with their big glowey stick. This is incredibly frustrating to me.

 

Switching to this spec seems a little sad, but smart to me. I mean, lets call a duck, a duck. Since people won't work together, warzones are for medal farming. Might as well do that as efficiently as you can.

Edited February 10, 2012 by xdoctor

[tXHereticXt]

It's one of the main reasons I find myself logging in less and less. Where did these people come from?!

 

KDR > Team Work.

 

While kills due contribute to lowering opposition forces, the players in question care more about their score than anything else.

[schmak]

Played around with Madness a bit last night, yes my damage output was significantly higher. I had a few 1v1's where I dominated, but that isn't much different then deception for me. It is a fun spec, and probably would be more useful in PvE. I probably would never use maul with this spec, so there could be better use of those points. I feel gimped in PvP as I no longer have low slash for an added stun and avoidance is a big one, although I could probably adjust the spec to account for this but then I'd lose points in darkness. Why is this important? I usually lock down healers in PvP and for 1v1 situations, the more I can interrupt and stun, the better chance I'll come out on top. Main thing is burst, burst is significanly higher in deception, and my dps is more sustainable with blackout.

 

this is my rotation w/ madness, any input greatly appreciated as I'd like to be sure I'm utilizing everything I can.

 

deathfield

discharge

creeping terror

shock

melee til raze

crushing darkness

shock

assisinate if in melee

 

 

You want to move shock up.

 

10% to all damage is important. You should be keeping that buff up as much as possible.

 

I usually start if chasing down with creeping terror, shock, Death Field, discharge, thrash, crushing darkness when instant and so forth, hitting creeping terror anytime its up to root.

 

That also changes depending on the person's resolve.

[schmak]

That's the general problem with players in SWTOR PvP.

 

1. Nobody uses CC. I tried to get my team to send ONE guy to cap the door. And everyone else to just CC the enemy as they spawn. You think they did it? Heck no. As long as they themselves aren't taking damage, nobody used CC. At all.

 

2. Everyone only cares about the damage done. Because that's how morons assign MVP votes - see who did most damage. Which means tab-discharge is king.

 

I said this in another thread, but I don't think I've ever seen THIS many inept morons in PvP in ANY MMO. And that includes WoW. Yeah, you get some monkeys in WoW BGs that don't know their lower backside from a hole in the ground, but it's maybe 20-30% of the team, at most. Here? 90% of the team has absolutely no brains, and lacks any tactical thinking whatsoever.

 

I once spent an entire evening trying to get people to RUN PAST ME in huttball. I'm serious. I tell them "I'll grab the ball, go ahead past me, I'll pass to you, you score". Think even one of them did it?! HELL NO. It's like there's an invisible barrier on me, and they can't go past me no matter what. Then one guy with a knockback runs in and sends us all to the pit. GG.

 

It's one of the main reasons I find myself logging in less and less. Where did these people come from?!

 

 

This is also why I got in a spat with another guy earlier. On offense i usually go dark charge and avoid DoT's. Mostly on Void Star. I don't know how many times I have been able to stealth in, use my minute CC, have them break it, then I do whirlwind and some jackhole breaks it right before I am about to cap the door. Infuriating. We'll even have 3 guys CCing anyone that comes to one side while I cap a door and some douchenozzle starts tab-discharging.

 

There is a time for tab-discharging, and its when you're defending a turret or door. THAT'S IT.

[darkenwolf]

You want to move shock up.

 

10% to all damage is important. You should be keeping that buff up as much as possible.

 

 

 

Tooltip says melee bonus damage (so just Thrash/Assassinate/Maul(if you use it)). Is this not the case? Because I've honestly been thinking of skipping Unearthed Knowledge but I don't think there's anything else more worthwhile to reallocate the two points. Maybe Oppressing Force, but eh.

[taek]

Multiple classes must dot opponents, and this is by design.

 

Lethality snipers & operatives multi dot everyone can w/ corrosive to generate energy.

Annih. Marauders heal themselves by applying dots to multiple targets.

Pyrotech BH generate a dot on their attacks automatically.

 

To complain about madness sins dotting multiple opponents is ignoring the fact that the devs encourage this behavior with their own spec design.

[Astarica]

Actually most of the time when I get hit by a Whirlwind like effect, it has a surprisingly high chance of lasting the whole duration. Dots just aren't as common as you think.

[schmak]

Tooltip says melee bonus damage (so just Thrash/Assassinate/Maul(if you use it)). Is this not the case? Because I've honestly been thinking of skipping Unearthed Knowledge but I don't think there's anything else more worthwhile to reallocate the two points. Maybe Oppressing Force, but eh.

 

Its a 10% boost to your melee dps, with madness you aren't a sorc, you have to hit people to kill them. You can't just rely on force lightning, shock, creeping terror and death field you'll get owned.

 

WE're a hybrid class by design, half ranged (mostly just the dots) the rest melee. Your force skills proc melee crit increases and your melee crits used to provide an instant cast (old raze).

 

Its not if you will use melee, its if you want to spec for Maul or Thrash.

[darkenwolf]

Its a 10% boost to your melee dps, with madness you aren't a sorc, you have to hit people to kill them. You can't just rely on force lightning, shock, creeping terror and death field you'll get owned.

 

WE're a hybrid class by design, half ranged (mostly just the dots) the rest melee. Your force skills proc melee crit increases and your melee crits used to provide an instant cast (old raze).

 

Its not if you will use melee, its if you want to spec for Maul or Thrash.

 

I'm well aware, no worries. I don't try to Sorc it up with Madness. I've been straight Madness since well before the last adjustment.

 

While Unearthed Knowledge is definitely handy, I've just been wondering lately if the 2 points are better spent elsewhere in the tree. So far my answer to that is no, but I'd love to hear opinions outside or inside the box. Gives me something to think about on my daily commute.

 

EDIT: My original point was just to check and make sure it was actually just melee - +10% across the board would be nice though.

Edited February 10, 2012 by darkenwolf

[schmak]

Now that I read it though its 10% to melee bonus damage... not sure what that is, Crit? If so it may not be worth it.

 

You know what would help?

 

A COMBAT LOG

[Angina]

Additionally, madness.... no chasing abilities beyond death field.

 

 

No chasing abilities? Not sure what you mean by that? Closers?

 

Let me introduce you to: instant cast whirlwind, electrocute, creeping madness (2 sec root), force slow and force sprint. If you want on a target you should be on them.

 

 

 

Also I've posted this in many other threads: drop Maul from Madness. You don't need it, save that force for thrash which hits harder when you aren't deep deception. Also consider picking up dark embrace which gives you greatly increased force regen for 6 seconds when you come out of stealth, that's 4 GCD's you can deathfield, discharge, creeping madness, and shock in those 6 seconds and be full force to thrash like 4 times before needing to build force. Most targets are dead by then and then you stealth and get force back.

 

Main thing about madness is remembering not to stand there like a tank. I never even get in melee with something until all my dots are rolling on that target. Then I electrocute and hit them with a few thrashs and then run away as I hit them with an instant crushing darkness....one target, one kill, next.....

[schmak]

Ok so I thought I was crazy for never using maul and using thrash with thrashing blades.

 

Glad to know I'm crazy but not for that reason.

[darkenwolf]

Now that I read it though its 10% to melee bonus damage... not sure what that is, Crit? If so it may not be worth it.

 

You know what would help?

 

A COMBAT LOG

 

On the character screen, under the melee tab is a listing for Bonus Damage. 10% of that is... not a lot for 2 points that high in a tree. I've been waffling back and forth but I'm not sure where else I'd put those 2 points that's more useful.

 

(For reference, this is the build I run currently)

[riedeas]

About multidotting and cc...

On my server (bloodworthy) people seem to get slightly smarter for every week atleast in voidstar and Civil war, atleast in the low level bracket. Have not been in the 50 bracket for about a week now so i don't know how it's there.

Huttball on the other hand................... But i blame that on me being republic and i guess imperial just have lot more experiance in that .''

 

Sometimes it helps just doing a winning tactic over and over again with a friend and people which hopefully are on your team start get a hint on what actully causes the wins.

[Meflieshigh]

LOL, newsflash. Healers heal. I had 0-5 deaths every game in solo queue.

 

Then Madness is not "the" spec. With a pocket healer, my level 20 sniper can do as much damage.

[Nocorras]

Then Madness is not "the" spec. With a pocket healer, my level 20 sniper can do as much damage.

 

No you can't. I don't have a pocket healer, I play with a good healer who heals himself and the team. Just like good tanks guard good healers/people getting hit and good dps kill the correct target. I'm sorry you play with bad people.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Nocorras

[Plexxx]

No chasing abilities? Not sure what you mean by that? Closers?

 

Let me introduce you to: instant cast whirlwind, electrocute, creeping madness (2 sec root), force slow and force sprint. If you want on a target you should be on them.

 

 

 

Also I've posted this in many other threads: drop Maul from Madness. You don't need it, save that force for thrash which hits harder when you aren't deep deception. Also consider picking up dark embrace which gives you greatly increased force regen for 6 seconds when you come out of stealth, that's 4 GCD's you can deathfield, discharge, creeping madness, and shock in those 6 seconds and be full force to thrash like 4 times before needing to build force. Most targets are dead by then and then you stealth and get force back.

 

Main thing about madness is remembering not to stand there like a tank. I never even get in melee with something until all my dots are rolling on that target. Then I electrocute and hit them with a few thrashs and then run away as I hit them with an instant crushing darkness....one target, one kill, next.....

 

I don't agree with dropping maul. Maul and death field is your burst for killing targets. DF > CT > discharge > shock > maul or thrash depending on proc > DF again when it's up.

 

If you're running out of force you're probably doing someting wrong. And stealth is pretty much useless as this spec, there's no point in using it really. Our openers are awful, death field is a better opener.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Plexxx

[Hellabadson]

I really don't think madness is the only good spec... at all

 

Check out my link for example... just some random pug game... I topped ALL THREE for my team... I'm not that geared and yes my damage isnt as high as the pic you posted but this was a losing game.

 

I dont think in any way that "Madness is now the PvP spec" all are viable

 

http://s1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/walk0281/?action=view&current=game1.jpg

 

edit : Of course im Darkness... lol

Edited February 11, 2012 by Hellabadson

[PolakToma]

I really don't think madness is the only good spec... at all

 

Check out my link for example... just some random pug game... I topped ALL THREE for my team... I'm not that geared and yes my damage isnt as high as the pic you posted but this was a losing game.

 

I dont think in any way that "Madness is now the PvP spec" all are viable

 

http://s1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/walk0281/?action=view&current=game1.jpg

 

edit : Of course im Darkness... lol

 

Oh boy you did ALMOST 300k damage, this dude is doing DOUBLE in madness

[Hellabadson]

Oh boy you did ALMOST 300k damage, this dude is doing DOUBLE in madness

 

uh what dude... you?

[Mazari]

MADNESS?!

 

THIS...IS....SPARTA!!!

 

 

soz, couldn't resist the pun!

[Mazrigar]

Oh boy you did ALMOST 300k damage, this dude is doing DOUBLE in madness

 

Most of it was worthless AE damage. Easily healed through.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but until I see a video showing a few things I don't believe the OP isn't just following the crowd and enjoying tab-dotting. Make a video showing the following and I will happily concede that Madness is now THE pvp spec.

 

1. No cheesing the meters with constant tab-dotting. Go forth and play the round properly. Focusing on the objectives, and not padding your numbers with cheesy tactics.

 

2. No pocket healer. Queuing up with a healer is a great way to look like a rock star. Anni-Marauders with a dedicated healer can easily bury other classes on damage output. No healer? Cannon fodder.

 

3. Get 8-10 medals without using the silly frozen water trick. I often get that many just by adapting my role during the game. Heavy offense to start, and swapping to defense when needed. Every medal well earned. No silly +healing medals on my assassin... ever.

 

4. Show your 500-700k damage at the end.

 

Might sound like a tall order, but if you make big claims you have to make big demonstrations. If we want to just say that "Madness is a great pvp spec!" then sure. No problem. It IS a great pvp spec, and does wonderful things in the right hands. THE pvp spec though? Pfffffft, you are going to have to prove it with more then silly/meaningless screen shots. To use the popular internet phrase...

 

Videos or it didn't happen.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Mazrigar

[Xancath]

Most of those are fairly easy to comply with. Solely focus firing (no tab dotting) I never miss the 300k-400k mark in damage with 8-10 medals easily being achieved through taunting.

 

The reality is that you won't be pulling 500k-700k under those conditions unless you're in a FULL length huttball or voidstar. The guy posting the ss' of numbers as high as 700k in those situations and had a pocket healer.