Madness is now the PvP spec

[MexarCarn]

What gear do you use with this spec?? Do you swing towards tank or dps?

[Nocorras]

What gear do you use with this spec?? Do you swing towards tank or dps?

 

Full stalker gear.

[The_Pro]

Question.

 

Fully optimising mods and such, would the way to go be stacking the 48 will / 37 power mods, and the 34 power / 48 surge enhancements from Champion level operative gear? Or maybe accuracy to 100%, because before 100% you can miss and it can be parried? Or maybe it still isn't worth it.

 

Also, it seems like force master offset pieces are mostly better. Am I right?

[Astarica]

Question.

 

Fully optimising mods and such, would the way to go be stacking the 48 will / 37 power mods, and the 34 power / 48 surge enhancements from Champion level operative gear? Or maybe accuracy to 100%, because before 100% you can miss and it can be parried? Or maybe it still isn't worth it.

 

Also, it seems like force master offset pieces are mostly better. Am I right?

 

Everyone has at least 5% defense so 105% accuracy on melee is always safe assuming you rely on melee attacks. After that it's a real mess to figure out especially with the impending nerf to Surge. I'd at least suggest seeing how Surge is nerfed next patch before commiting resources into buying extra armors unless you're overflowing with extra commendations.

 

Note that Force attacks pretty much never miss.

[Nocorras]

Everyone has at least 5% defense so 105% accuracy on melee is always safe assuming you rely on melee attacks. After that it's a real mess to figure out especially with the impending nerf to Surge. I'd at least suggest seeing how Surge is nerfed next patch before commiting resources into buying extra armors unless you're overflowing with extra commendations.

 

Note that Force attacks pretty much never miss.

 

The surge change might not even be a nerf for 0-350~. They are going to re-balance the formula for DR and lower it by 10%. The results could be a buff/nerf/or neutral.

[Plexxx]

This thread is so slowpoke. Been using 7/3/31 since I hit 50 ages ago, and it's always been the best pvp non-tank damage spec.

 

Hopefully you ******* spamming discharge on everyone to inflate your damage won't get it nerfed.

 

And there is no reason to ever use anything but lightning charge as this spec, bar running the ball in hutball.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Plexxx

[Sabbathius]

Tried Madness today. Did OK in PvP. Though having to manually target Death Field as opposed to autotarget with Wither really ticks me off. Still, the spec is far too fragile for my liking. Tried leveling with it, and nearly puked. Strong mob 2 levels above me took me nearly to half health. No good. Went back to Darkness.

[Nocorras]

This thread is so slowpoke. Been using 7/3/31 since I hit 50 ages ago, and it's always been the best pvp non-tank damage spec.

 

Hopefully you ******* spamming discharge on everyone to inflate your damage won't get it nerfed.

 

And there is no reason to ever use anything but lightning charge as this spec, bar running the ball in hutball.

 

I played it pre-patch too, I didn't like how raze was pre-patch so I stopped. Discharging to inflate numbers is retarded.

[Plexxx]

I played it pre-patch too, I didn't like how raze was pre-patch so I stopped. Discharging to inflate numbers is retarded.

 

Raze prepatch wasn't that bad imo, it just required a lot of crit. There was no internal cd on it so you could have multiple procs in a row. The new version is far more consistent, seems to be a nearly 100% proc on the first melee strike, so you can even work it into a reliable rotation.

 

Yeah if you look at the amount of kills in that 700k dmg screenshot posted earlier, it's at least half of what it should be. I admit it can be a bit of fun to see how much damage you can do, but it's not smart play.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Plexxx

[kijthae]

Are we playing same game ? I got 500 expertise and my dots tick 300. How can you deal that much of damage unless you dot everybody constantly and let somebody kill them ? Making our basic rotation ability an aoe which needs to be targeted manualy ftw ... Edited February 10, 2012 by kijthae

[Nocorras]

Are we playing same game ? I got 500 expertise and my dots tick 300. How can you deal that much of damage unless you dot everybody constantly and let somebody kill them ?

 

Trash hits hard. Death field hits hard. Creeping terror/lightning discharge/raze combined drops people's health.

[Sabbathius]

Trash hits hard. Death field hits hard. Creeping terror/lightning discharge/raze combined drops people's health.

 

It's pretty slow though. I mean, a Marauder DOT does its full damage in 6 seconds. The Madness DoTs are for the most part 18 seconds long. That's quite a while. And Thrash only hits harder on a crit, compared to a 31/0/10 spec. Meanwhile you take a TON more damage, compared to Darkness spec.

 

I did a quick test in PvE - did half a quest, ported to fleet to respec, and finished the quest as another spec. And frankly, Madness didn't blow me away. I felt at least 5x squishier, and while the kill speed went up, it wasn't that significant - 3x HD stack lightning just melts things at +75% damage, not to mention it's a pretty meaty heal too.

[GhostHei]

It's pretty slow though. I mean, a Marauder DOT does its full damage in 6 seconds. The Madness DoTs are for the most part 18 seconds long. That's quite a while. And Thrash only hits harder on a crit, compared to a 31/0/10 spec. Meanwhile you take a TON more damage, compared to Darkness spec.

 

I did a quick test in PvE - did half a quest, ported to fleet to respec, and finished the quest as another spec. And frankly, Madness didn't blow me away. I felt at least 5x squishier, and while the kill speed went up, it wasn't that significant - 3x HD stack lightning just melts things at +75% damage, not to mention it's a pretty meaty heal too.

 

IMO madness isn't about dropping people. It's about being a giant pain in the *** and harassing them from range and picking them off in melee instead of going toe to toe with them. I love using death field, lighting charged and creeping terror to harass people at cap points to buy my team some time.

 

The night I switched specs from deception to madness my damage in warzones doubled. But it's all padded because I'm just doing minor damage to tons of targets. If I have to 1v1 it definately takes a lot longer to drop people but again I think that's not what madness is about

[Plexxx]

IMO madness isn't about dropping people. It's about being a giant pain in the *** and harassing them from range and picking them off in melee instead of going toe to toe with them. I love using death field, lighting charged and creeping terror to harass people at cap points to buy my team some time.

 

The night I switched specs from deception to madness my damage in warzones doubled. But it's all padded because I'm just doing minor damage to tons of targets. If I have to 1v1 it definately takes a lot longer to drop people but again I think that's not what madness is about

 

It is absolutely about dropping people. Sure, it takes a couple of seconds to ramp up to the big hits because you have to apply dots etc. But played correctly you should still have killing power.

 

You should not be dotting everyone. You should be dotting your main target only, who should have deathmark on him.

[Ekemeister]

It is absolutely about dropping people. Sure, it takes a couple of seconds to ramp up to the big hits because you have to apply dots etc. But played correctly you should still have killing power.

 

You should not be dotting everyone. You should be dotting your main target only, who should have deathmark on him.

 

this is the point of madness. However, the spec plays more like a warlock than anything else.

 

Madness has a 2 sec soft cc, but not a 4 sec hard cc or extra knockdown + 2nd slow. Additionally, madness is squishier, requires more micro, and has no chasing abilities beyond death field.

 

Also just to Clarify, darkness does have healing. Harnessed Darkness, energize, and dark charge all heal the player.

 

Lastly, do you focus on power or crit when doing a full madness build?

[Plexxx]

this is the point of madness. However, the spec plays more like a warlock than anything else.

 

Madness has a 2 sec soft cc, but not a 4 sec hard cc or extra knockdown + 2nd slow. Additionally, madness is squishier, requires more micro, and has no chasing abilities beyond death field.

 

Also just to Clarify, darkness does have healing. Harnessed Darkness, energize, and dark charge all heal the player.

 

Lastly, do you focus on power or crit when doing a full madness build?

 

With a low cd force sprint, CT, and your snare ability (rarely used, don't need it), how are you being kited?

 

I've just been using full BM stalker gear, haven't played around with any of the mods. You really need both though. To kill a player you want deathfield and maul to crit, they're a lot of your burst; but you need enough power/surge for that crit to hurt.

 

I'm the first to admit madness is a different play style, and is more difficult to manage, but played well it can be very effective.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Plexxx

[Nocorras]

this is the point of madness. However, the spec plays more like a warlock than anything else.

 

Madness has a 2 sec soft cc, but not a 4 sec hard cc or extra knockdown + 2nd slow. Additionally, madness is squishier, requires more micro, and has no chasing abilities beyond death field.

 

Also just to Clarify, darkness does have healing. Harnessed Darkness, energize, and dark charge all heal the player.

 

Lastly, do you focus on power or crit when doing a full madness build?

 

People should not be able to run from you as madness, ever. Yes it has more micro but if you can play the spec it's amazing.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Nocorras

[Mazrigar]

I think you are putting WAY to much stock in the "damage done" listing at the end of a match. The damage that madness deals out to a single target is pretty solid, but what I am seeing madness assassins do now after the patch is what I call "false damage". It puts up BIG numbers, but those numbers don't tell the whole story. You should not be trying to sell the spec based on it that is for sure.

 

Right now I am seeing more and more madness assassins just putting discharge dot on as many people as possible, and keeping death field on cooldown. That damage is overall VERY high, but also almost completely useless in assisting your team. You'll notice some of the pictures are of assassins doing 700k damage, which is MUCH higher then everyone else.... and yet they still lost. Because putting fairly minor DoTs on 5+ different people might look sexy on the meters, but it damn sure didn't actually kill anyone. You can barely call it assisting.

 

If you want to play a madness spec assassin in pvp because you like the play style then have at it. Enjoy yourself. If you want to play it to just spam weak DoTs and and stroke your ego at the end of a match then you are going to do nothing but hinder your future teams. A deception assassin might only have done 200-300k tops, but I can promise you he did it killing important targets, and focusing on the objective. Which in the end is the only thing that matters. Personal egos be damned.... play the match properly.

[Nocorras]

I think you are putting WAY to much stock in the "damage done" listing at the end of a match. The damage that madness deals out to a single target is pretty solid, but what I am seeing madness assassins do now after the patch is what I call "false damage". It puts up BIG numbers, but those numbers don't tell the whole story. You should not be trying to sell the spec based on it that is for sure.

 

Right now I am seeing more and more madness assassins just putting discharge dot on as many people as possible, and keeping death field on cooldown. That damage is overall VERY high, but also almost completely useless in assisting your team. You'll notice some of the pictures are of assassins doing 700k damage, which is MUCH higher then everyone else.... and yet they still lost. Because putting fairly minor DoTs on 5+ different people might look sexy on the meters, but it damn sure didn't actually kill anyone. You can barely call it assisting.

 

If you want to play a madness spec assassin in pvp because you like the play style then have at it. Enjoy yourself. If you want to play it to just spam weak DoTs and and stroke your ego at the end of a match then you are going to do nothing but hinder your future teams. A deception assassin might only have done 200-300k tops, but I can promise you he did it killing important targets, and focusing on the objective. Which in the end is the only thing that matters. Personal egos be damned.... play the match properly.

 

Except, I don't deathfield in cd and I dont discharge 5 targets. Everything I do i single target with death field.

[Sabbathius]

I think someone is going to need to make a video of Madness post-patch to really sell it. Just one random match. Preferably without pocket healer or water abuse.

[venjinze]

Played around with Madness a bit last night, yes my damage output was significantly higher. I had a few 1v1's where I dominated, but that isn't much different then deception for me. It is a fun spec, and probably would be more useful in PvE. I probably would never use maul with this spec, so there could be better use of those points. I feel gimped in PvP as I no longer have low slash for an added stun and avoidance is a big one, although I could probably adjust the spec to account for this but then I'd lose points in darkness. Why is this important? I usually lock down healers in PvP and for 1v1 situations, the more I can interrupt and stun, the better chance I'll come out on top. Main thing is burst, burst is significanly higher in deception, and my dps is more sustainable with blackout.

 

this is my rotation w/ madness, any input greatly appreciated as I'd like to be sure I'm utilizing everything I can.

 

deathfield

discharge

creeping terror

shock

melee til raze

crushing darkness

shock

assisinate if in melee

Edited February 10, 2012 by venjinze

[Karandor]

I tried madness and wasn't a huge fan, if a healer knows where the cleanse button is you're pretty much up **** creek without a paddle.

 

It's a great spec to roll PuGs but against organized teams it just wasn't that great.

 

 

It has no burst, less CC and interrupts than other specs and the survivability is still pretty mediocre. It would be a great PvE spec but I really think it's pretty lacking in PvP when any healers are involved. The only thing I really liked was deathfield and creeping terror. Deathfield is amazing for killing guards with recklessness I was hitting the guarded person for 1500 and the tank for 4k+.

[otterfreak]

I have played Madness and Deception, I find both of them really fun and here are my two cents. They are both extremely good specs for both PVE/PVP. Madness definitely stands out in PVE but it is useful in PVP. Its a pressure build with plenty of ways to kill, I find it has a lot more utility than Deception. Insta-whirlwind a healer, force slow someone, root another person, stun another, aoe-taunt, you've just helped your team (situational of course). Deception is fantastic too, take out the key healers/squishy DPS. Its easier to force starve yourself with Deception compared to Madness. I love Deception too but if I see a Sin/Shadow spinning his lightsaber (VS) i'm going for him first because he's gonna be alot squishier. There are pros/cons for all 3 specs, there is not one that beats all, play styles, if you like it, to hell with what others have to say.

 

I had one question in regards to Maul with the Madness spec, I personally find myself using Maul less often. The tooltip says that direct damage attacks procs Maul 10/20/30%, do DOTs count as direct damage attacks (i'm a little iffy on the definition of direct damage)? The reason I ask is it seems like EW seems to proc alot more in this spec and i'm wondering if its sufficient to have only one point (10%) in Duplicity.

 

Currently 5/5/31, thinking about a respec to 7/3/31 or possibly 9/1/31 (giving up Dark Embrace for Electric Execution).

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 10, 2012 by otterfreak

[Darth_Xzygy]

I would shock before you begin melee, you'll hit 10% harder. Its counter-intuitive from Deception, but it works very well.

 

I will also death field and Tab Discharge in a group of people. I get a lot of damage rolling, which also generates a lot of healing, then I'll start focusing targets down while off-target interrupting the healer and CCing them if possible.

 

I have to get better at looking for Raze procs, but with a 60% chance, I should be able to just thrash once and attempt to cast CD, but overall, I'm having a heap of fun with this spec. It is a true melee caster now, and was what I wanted to play from the start, not a lightsaber yo-yo wielding dude in red goth raver gear.

[Karandor]

I would shock before you begin melee, you'll hit 10% harder. Its counter-intuitive from Deception, but it works very well.

 

I will also death field and Tab Discharge in a group of people. I get a lot of damage rolling, which also generates a lot of healing, then I'll start focusing targets down while off-target interrupting the healer and CCing them if possible.

 

I have to get better at looking for Raze procs, but with a 60% chance, I should be able to just thrash once and attempt to cast CD, but overall, I'm having a heap of fun with this spec. It is a true melee caster now, and was what I wanted to play from the start, not a lightsaber yo-yo wielding dude in red goth raver gear.

 

The tab discharge makes those people immune to 1/2 the CC in the game including your own whirlwind.

 

People like you are why we can't cap doors in void or points on alderaan. Making people essentially immune to long duration CC is not worth the extra damage and healing you receive....