Nocorras Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 just topped 700k earlier http://imageshack.us/f/215/700p.png/ loving the build Ya i want to play the build on voidstar so bad to see how high I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Dude thanks for telling me about the pure shock frozen water. Ive had one in my inventory for like forever, and force cloak + pure shockfrozen water = win! LOL don't get too attached to it. Have a feeling that will be changed, although it's something everyone can do so maybe no one will QQ about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) LOL don't get too attached to it. Have a feeling that will be changed, although it's something everyone can do so maybe no one will QQ about it. Not everyone can exit combat though, its like adding an 8k healing component to force cloak lol. I'm sure it will be nerfed. Edited February 7, 2012 by DarthNorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well yesterday still playing as deception I was hitting for 1.2k ish hits and 2.5 k crits with maul ( bear in mind I only had 3 champion pieces and the rest were orange with blue mod enhancements ) after I respeced and got 3 new pieces thanks to the new bag reward system my trash was doing around 1k non crit. maybe those extra pieces make a bigger difference than I tought since you say u were doing 1800 non crit I'm in full tier 2 gear though with 1 t3 PvE and I'm pretty sure that 1800 came off a weak mob while questing. I'll need to do more testing I think. Numbers off tooltip though heavily favor Maul. Let me see if I can dig up the tooltip numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfreudHC Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As someone said to me, padding your stats with the Shockfrozen water heal medals is nothing to brag about. DoT spec always pads your stats, actual contriibution to PvP is usually quite low. DoTs provide more PVP Objective functionality than instant damage abilities. DoTs interrupt capping and tick after you are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Off my tooltip: 1. Thrash: 23 force cost, deals 625-720 wpn dmg per hit. 2. Maul: 50 force cost (25 with EW), deals 1885-2171 wpn dmg. How do the crits work when there's a 50% crit dmg increase for Thrash? My Crit Multiplier is listed at 66.48% in PvP gear (4x Champion armor pieces, Mainhand, Offhand, 1 Relic, 1 Implant, no BMs and Centurions) Damage 756-937 Bonus: 393.1 Acc: 100.25% Crit %: 29.70% The tooltips for Thrash and Maul also off while wearing PvP gear. Does this mean Maul crit would be 2000 x 1.66 = 3320? Thrash 700 x (1.66 + 0.50) = 1512 per crit hit, both hits critting will yield 3024. Well short of what Maul does even w/o implementing the 50% armor reduction from Expose Weakness. I don't think the increased Saber Charge damage makes up for that, in PvP I'd say Maul definitely gets the edge. Need someone with more math skills to find DPS numbers based on the extra 15% crit chance Thrash gets from having 4 pieces of PvE set gear, but I'm not convinced Thrash can replace Maul. Edited February 7, 2012 by jkcheng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 DoTs provide more PVP Objective functionality than instant damage abilities. DoTs interrupt capping and tick after you are dead. Not to mention preventing vanishers from staying in stealth for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Game 4 as madness -- http://imgur.com/Iu1bh -- Finally got a voidstar to see how much dmg I can get. Wasn't a stalemate at first door to pad to 600k+. This spec is insane now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goror Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 can u post the build please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruulTapul Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It seems the growth Value of Trash has been reduced with the new Patch; since I play deception, I did not notice. The Value around PvP T2 is 150 damage lower now; can anyone else confirm? This seems to make both madness and Deception builds better by comparison to darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 can u post the build please? http://i.imgur.com/tjwxv.jpg I dont know if the maul talent is even worth it. Trash hits nearly as hard from what I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goror Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/tjwxv.jpg I dont know if the maul talent is even worth it. Trash hits nearly as hard from what I can see. thx alot buddy.. ill try it out now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not to mention preventing vanishers from staying in stealth for long. Sins have Force Shroud. Which removes all DoTs. Ops have Evasion. Which removes all DoTs. A stealther who wants to stay in stealth will stay in stealth, DoTs or no DoTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooxy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Off my tooltip: 1. Thrash: 23 force cost, deals 625-720 wpn dmg per hit. 2. Maul: 50 force cost (25 with EW), deals 1885-2171 wpn dmg. How do the crits work when there's a 50% crit dmg increase for Thrash? My Crit Multiplier is listed at 66.48% in PvP gear (4x Champion armor pieces, Mainhand, Offhand, 1 Relic, 1 Implant, no BMs and Centurions) Damage 756-937 Bonus: 393.1 Acc: 100.25% Crit %: 29.70% The tooltips for Thrash and Maul also off while wearing PvP gear. Does this mean Maul crit would be 2000 x 1.66 = 3320? Thrash 700 x (1.66 + 0.50) = 1512 per crit hit, both hits critting will yield 3024. Well short of what Maul does even w/o implementing the 50% armor reduction from Expose Weakness. I don't think the increased Saber Charge damage makes up for that, in PvP I'd say Maul definitely gets the edge. Need someone with more math skills to find DPS numbers based on the extra 15% crit chance Thrash gets from having 4 pieces of PvE set gear, but I'm not convinced Thrash can replace Maul. Now I'm no math expert but in order to make the comparison to my spec you need to take into consideration the increased dmg I get from 3 pts in electric execution. Also don't forget that the Maui proc has a cd so it should also be taken into consideration as well. I think it's more of a choice than anything else since I'd rather loose a bit of dmg than have to watch my tiny ui bar for yet another proc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Would be great if someone slapped together a post-patch Madness PvP video. Doesn't have to be stellar, just an average match to see how things play out. I'm still having trouble picturing how exactly it would work, even on paper. I'm also having trouble giving up Force Pull and Spike out of stealth, not to mention the slow on Wither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Sins have Force Shroud. Which removes all DoTs. Ops have Evasion. Which removes all DoTs. A stealther who wants to stay in stealth will stay in stealth, DoTs or no DoTs. Oh well, making them drop their cd is still a win, and it's not always up when they want to vanish. Do Marauders have it debuff remover too? PS. I must know what this Trash ability everyone is talking is, it seems pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Now I'm no math expert but in order to make the comparison to my spec you need to take into consideration the increased dmg I get from 3 pts in electric execution. Also don't forget that the Maui proc has a cd so it should also be taken into consideration as well. I think it's more of a choice than anything else since I'd rather loose a bit of dmg than have to watch my tiny ui bar for yet another proc Right, this is where I'm struggling as well and really want to see some number crunching to weigh the cost/benefit of Maul vs Electric Execution. I do consider having one less proc to look for as a significant bonus as I already have trouble keeping all our procs/timers in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Oh well, making them drop their cd is still a win, and it's not always up when they want to vanish. Do Marauders have it debuff remover too? If you're blowing 3 min CD anyway, like Force Cloak. Might as well blow a 1 min CD like Force Shroud and do it right. And no, Maras don't get a removal tool. But if they are Annihilation, their Force Camo makes them 100% immune to damage for its 4 second duration, so they won't bust out of it just because there's a DoT on them. But it's 4 sec max, no big deal. What Maras can do though is chain Force Camo and Undying Rage into 9 seconds of 99.6% damage reduction. Which is pretty beastly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm pretty sure Marauders can't attack while using Force Camo or they lose their invulnerability. You get 40K healing for just meleeing with Dark Charge on, so if you get 30K from Frozen Shockwater, that means you got 20K from other heals. It's a decent number but not it's not incredible survivality. Dotting everyone in range is usually a good idea, though it doesn't help your team win as much as the total DPS would indicate. Just ask the Sorcs that dot/AE everyone for crazy damage while failing to actually kill anybody. Dots also limit your ability to use any break-on-damage effects. While you should always use your best DPF attack even if it's a dot, it is not nearly as strong as its leaderboard number would indicate. People just don't die from dots in this game. It's useful for interrupting caps, but it's rarely necessary when you've a proper defense unless you're just being absolutely wiped on D, and in that case some magic with dots probably won't win the game for you either. I've had some games where it seems like impossible to cap a spot even though we're killing the enemy as soon as they landed due to dots, but eventually we figured out if we can kill them that fast, we should just attack all their positions at once and eventually they won't be able to defend them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure Marauders can't attack while using Force Camo or they lose their invulnerability. You get 40K healing for just meleeing with Dark Charge on, so if you get 30K from Frozen Shockwater, that means you got 20K from other heals. It's a decent number but not it's not incredible survivality. Dotting everyone in range is usually a good idea, though it doesn't help your team win as much as the total DPS would indicate. Just ask the Sorcs that dot/AE everyone for crazy damage while failing to actually kill anybody. Dots also limit your ability to use any break-on-damage effects. While you should always use your best DPF attack even if it's a dot, it is not nearly as strong as its leaderboard number would indicate. People just don't die from dots in this game. It's useful for interrupting caps, but it's rarely necessary when you've a proper defense unless you're just being absolutely wiped on D, and in that case some magic with dots probably won't win the game for you either. I've had some games where it seems like impossible to cap a spot even though we're killing the enemy as soon as they landed due to dots, but eventually we figured out if we can kill them that fast, we should just attack all their positions at once and eventually they won't be able to defend them all. I don't have dark charge on, that's just dumb. 60k was from madness healing. I can solo healers or keep 2-3 busy healing each other. Edited February 8, 2012 by Nocorras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm pretty sure Marauders can't attack while using Force Camo or they lose their invulnerability. Yeah, but Anni spec, they stack the bleeds on you and vanish. They are still doing 80% of their nominal DPS, and you are doing diddly squat to them. Also anyone who happens to be running by will see just a friendly and keep on running, since most players in SWTOR have the memory of a goldfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't have dark charge on, that's just dumb. 60k was from madness healing. I can solo healers or keep 2-3 busy healing each other. You'd have had 40K before the patch change because there was no meaningful penalty to use Dark Charge. I can keep 5 healers busy by myself but all that shows is the enemy side is too undisciplined to just let a single person die. Two Withers do more damage than dotting 5 guys if you catch the enemy in a pack, and the damage done by that is just as meaningless as dotting 5 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) You'd have had 40K before the patch change because there was no meaningful penalty to use Dark Charge. I can keep 5 healers busy by myself but all that shows is the enemy side is too undisciplined to just let a single person die. Two Withers do more damage than dotting 5 guys if you catch the enemy in a pack, and the damage done by that is just as meaningless as dotting 5 guys. You won't deal nearly the damage I can as madness. You won't catch 5 at a time most of the time and the raw damage isnt there. I'm not multi dotting discharge to pad up numbers, I am single target bursting and using death field. Edited February 8, 2012 by Nocorras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReFlexionn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 just topped 700k earlier http://imageshack.us/f/215/700p.png/ loving the build you make me sick! > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavonau Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've been trying to finish my Stalker set so I could switch between Darkness and Deception. After reading this though, I may have to try out Madness. I did it while I was leveling, but now it just seems insane. I'll have to play around with it and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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