Very similar to what I use, I'd shift 1 point from Psychokinesis to Jedi Resistance, but that's a subjective nitpick. You will definitely have force management issues if you use Project too much. I don't think its awful using it sparingly in PvP (too much a part of my playstyle not to at this point, I think) but you can definitely do fine without it. No way around our Squishy, but I wouldn't give up either of those personally, either. Best I can say is try to get a sense for predicting when a big hit like that is likely to happen and leverage Force Speed or Resilience to block it. That's more art than science though. Hard to say without seeing your play. I just know I never have trouble proc'ing it frequently. Never cast it without the proc - Madness standing still = dead. Try throwing in Saber Strike a bit more? Also, it may be possible that you're not attacking someone affected by your Discharge DOT, in which case it won't proc. It can be easy to lose track of who has what DOT on them sometimes. This may be an itemization issue, and likely will have less to do with BM/WH and more to do with your secondary stats. If you're running stock Stalker, BM or WH, it is entirely likely you have too much Acc/Crit and not nearly enough Power. This may be the culprit. Crit to 25-27%, Acc to 95-97%, Surge to 75%, then stack Power and Will.

And most of the PvPers I know have already, or are currently, remodding gear - it is the final progression of end-game PvP (due to the awful itemization across the board). To note, there is no need to get two full sets of anything. For Assassins who want to stack +power/+surge, War Hero Force-Master Boots** are the most cost-effective item to provide you with an appropriate mod and enhancement for swapping. Mix in a few of them and you're golden - no need to duplicate another entire set piece-by-piece. Mind you, I kept the old BM Stalker enhancements in some of my Force-Master pieces because of Alacrity (which you can see in my Armory link) - I'm in no rush to replace them, nor do I have the time/inclination to grind. But eventually you've got to do something with those Comms. **- Buy or Craft an orange BM shell, most certainly do not spend WZ Comms on an actual BM piece for the WH purchase.

Thought just occurred to me; it's minor: Since you're not using Upheaval and Twin Disciplines, thereby removing any incentive to use Project at all - you might want to shift one point out of Psychokinesis (Buy 12 Double Strikes, get the 13th free! Worst talent ever but that's another discussion) so you can double up on Pinning Resolve for a 10sec reduction on stun. Also: consider Applied Force is a stepping stone to Elusiveness. 15 second CD reduction on Resilience, along with quicker Force Speeds? To me the real choice is between Elusiveness and Misdirection (which is a very solid talent, don't get me wrong), Applied Force is filler. Given all the snares in the game, I prefer more frequent burst movement and Resilience over faster sustained movement and better stealth level (for this build), but it'll help you out either way.

I've been saying this for months - it's an uphill battle.

I'm not so sure about dropping Shock/Project, I find it far too situationally useful in PvP (though in PvE, yeah, drop it). The better you get at managing the force regen, the less of an impact Shock/Project will have on your overall force management. You definitely do not want to spam it, that's for sure. It has a place in selective use, especially since range/distance plays a significant part in PvP. Also, do not be afraid to throw in your basic saber attack more often - it gives you 3 swipes to Thrash/Double Strike's 2 swipes, giving it a greater chance to proc Raze/Force Strike. You mentioned hardly seeing the proc - mixing in saber strike a little bit more often and you'll see that change. Regarding Elusiveness - I could not live without the Assassin version of that Talent. My suggestion: take two points out of Infiltration Tactics, they're wasted there. One point is enough to get the proc as often as you need it under this spec. You don't want to fall into the tunnel vision of constantly trying to position for Maul, thereby letting your DOT/FiB priority suffer - you have plenty of other things to do. 10% is enough, in my experience, to get the proc up during just about every 10 second window.

I waffle back and forth between the two. Thinking back on it, if you don't already have a lot of experience with Madness in PvP you might consider taking Dark Embrace. It took me quite a while until I felt comfortable managing my Force Usage and Force Regen into a steady stream as Madness in PvP. Getting in quick Discharges on off-targets, when to throw Razed-CD onto an off-target, when and where to mix in Saber Strike**, etc. Or you can go the trial by fire route like I did and do without to figure it out. Most people hate Insulation (just as most people love Torment, which I don't) but for me, subjectively, I definitely feel a noticeable decline in uptime without it. 2/2 Insulation approximates medium armor. I've tried swapping out of it for other things, but I find 3/3 Duplicity to be a waste of two points, and I don't need the extra regen from Dark Embrace. I suppose I could put it in Sith Defiance, but meh. In the end, those two points always go back to Insulation. In PvE I've never had any trouble, but I also cut Shock out of my rotation entirely. Too Force hungry, even with Unearthed Knowledge buff. In PvP Shock helps with burst AND is useful in the constant jockeying for position and range which, IMO, makes it worth the cost to use sparingly. ** - Saber Strike has added utility in that it increases your chances of proc'ing Raze as well. In terms of Force Management and Raze, it should not be overlooked.

Madness is probably your best bet to do both. The spec in my sig (main spec I play) works well in PvP and PvE. 7/3/31 with points allocated a little differently than the norm.

I wish I could like or upvote your post. Double thumbs up.

Pretty much this. Bioware, as with Bethesda before it, has lost all credibility with me as a game designer at this point. This Q&A only cements the sad fact that they've joined most of the Old Guard dev studios who can't design their way out of a wet paper bag anymore.

Reference to a set by name means reference to the set BONUS. Having to swap out useless mod/enh for useful ones is a given in endgame PvP across the board. This is true even as a DPS with the Stalker set which has too much +crit and +acc by default, and nowhere near enough +power or +surge. If you're not swapping out at least some of the mod/enh in your War Hero set you are not itemizing to optimal performance. Nothing wrong with that if you're casual and have neither the time nor the inclination to grind (to which I can very much relate!). The set bonus is largely a matter of taste. Personally as Madness I prefer the Force-Master set bonus over the Stalker set bonus - neither one is really better than the other, at least not to any significant degree. Recklessness is almost always up when I need it given the pacing of PvP and I could give a crap about the extra charge. But again, personal taste. Whatever fits your style best. If I cared enough to grind, I'd love to give the PvE Stalker set bonus a whirl with PvP mod/enh. Should still hit around 1100 expertise and the +15% crit on Thrash, with a crit heavy build, would be nice. Could easily get 50% crit on Thrash as a default, without consumables.

I leveled Madness 1-50, so I can comment on that. You won't notice much of a difference until you get to the mid-20s. That's around the range you'll get Death Field, the cost reducer, and Raze - this is when Madness starts coming into its own. You should not be using Maul, regardless of spec, without 1 point in Expose Weakness for the Proc. Otherwise the cost is WAY too much to justify. As far as PvP goes, this early the only thing I can tell you is don't charge in and Rambo around. You're not a tank anymore, you don' t have heavy armor, a high AR, and tons of health. This class will play differently than your Jugg, your approach will have to adapt. EDIT: Get to 25 or 26, the good stuff doesn't start happening til around halfway through the tree (Darkness is the latest bloomer of the 3 IMO, Madness the earliest). All classes are pretty boring pre-20. Stick it out for a bit longer, at least, before you consider re-rolling.

Its not about passing the buck, unless you just stand there and watch and don't do anything. It's about letting those with better survivability (heavier armor, more health, better defensives) do what they are meant to do and take the brunt. They are easier to heal and they manage the focus better. With a few seconds pause to assess the situation, AOE taunt, and pick a target, you increase your value by not distracting your healers, and actually do what you're meant to do: spread the hurt around and ratchet up the pressure cooker. Running in first and getting slagged to respawn just makes you dead weight at best, a liability at worst. Healers and DPS do not lead the charge, that's not their role - it has nothing to do with passing the buck.

1) That's hard to say without knowing how you approach engagements. You can minimize this by playing to your role of squishy DPS and not leading the charge. You can do this a number of ways, for example: remain in stealth while you position until you engage; never lead the pack in a charge, wait until the groups have engaged before you start laying in; approach targets from angles, never the front, and preferably distracted (this doesn't always mean they're engaged). You may also consider grabbing 2/2 Insulation if you haven't, I find it helps. Nothing will save you from sustained, concentrated focus though. 2) As far as multiple melee, or multiple attackers period, this is usually the time to Cloak, re-position, and re-engage. If it's only two, you may get lucky with a stun followed by insta-WW so you can concentrate on the other one. Your level of gear relevant to theirs will bear significantly on the outcome of this fight. As far as kiting goes - as full Madness you should be extremely difficult to kite - you have too many tools at your disposal. This is an area where learning your tools over time will definitely help. Slow, Creeping Terror root, Speed, and Stun can all help you close distance - so can offensive use of Cloak. Proper use of Shroud can also help clear snares, and help clear setup moves that lead to huge DPS (like the sticky timebomb). Also, as Madness, CT, Discharge, and DF can all contribute to damage uptime (though not peak efficiency lacking Thrash and Raze proc) while you close the distance. Practice, you'll get the hang of it. Also, learn to leverage your environment to LOS. With 2 DOTs ticking away,and getting smacked around a corner by well placed DF, most people will come to you - allowing you to Slow, Thrash, and Raze-proc. Again, you may also consider grabbing 2/2 Insulation if you haven't. 3) My preferred set bonus for Madness is Force-Master, so clearly I'm biased. It takes a decent amount of mod/enh swapping, especially when transitioning to WH, because you'll get slapped with a bunch of useless Alacrity. You can cushion this somewhat by retaining BM enhancements and using them with WH Armoring/Mod. Stalker set bonus certainly won't hurt you any, I just prefer healing from Crushing Darkness over 3 charges of Reckless - +5m Shock and Jolt is nice too. Gear with an eye toward Power and Willpower, get crit to at least 25%, Surge to 75%, and I like my accuracy around 97%. You'll find when you make your initial switch to WH that you will be really crit heavy, but unless you love Grinding and have a lot of free time I wouldn't bother re-slotting with other pieces (FM Boots, I think, are the cheapest power/surge. Just remember to keep some power/acc in there) until you've got full WH. Hope this was helpful!

It always used to amuse me the people who would complain that Shadows and Assassins should have medium armor back in Jan-Feb. I still see that complaint trotted out every so often. 2/2 Shadowy Veil = Medium Armor. I find it to be a much better use of those two points than Security Breach, but I've always been in the minority there. On point: The build looks nice. I'm just coming off a week and a half test run of the Arika hybrid, I think I'll try this next.

Once I got the hang of managing Deathmarks I have had zero trouble with force management as Madness. 1) I wouldn't particularly mind that though I'm not sure how much it would really help. Commonly accepted knowledge for PvE Madness is that you want to eliminate Shock from your rotation entirely. It is too force hungry, even with the proc buff to melee bonus damage. I don't PvE much and I use Shock situationally in PvP quite frequently but most emphatically not on cooldown. It is definitely low on the priority list. 2) Even with 31 points in Madness/Balance you have enough points left over to go into the Infiltration tree and get the Stealth force regen talent and the Blackout talent. It does not need to be in the Madness tree. If you like it, get it. I prefer Lightning Recovery, myself, but that's more of a PvP talent. 3) Re: PvE set bonus - Saber Strike consists of 3 individual hits, each of which grants you 1 force. So for the single global cooldown of a Saberstrike you get 3 force plus whatever you regen in that time. Judicious mixing in of generic attacks from time to time is essential in force management across the board. Some classes need to use it less than others. I throw it in periodically, when I'm under 10% force and when I really want to proc Raze or EW because of the above mentioned 3 strikes and no force cost.

I don't know if its still the case, but SithWarriors (now the SWTOR section of the mmo-mechanics domain, I believe) was the source for all the hard math calculations for a while. 30% softcap has been around for ages.

I used to be a bit over the soft cap but swapping around gear has lessened that a bit - I'm hovering between 31 and 32 (28-29 without Talent). Seems like I don't need to worry about losing all that +crit when I upgrade to WH implants/ear/genny. That's good to know. Initially I figured I'd let it get up high naturally from how our unoptimized gear works out, just to see what kind of bump I'd get from increased self-healing. Its there, but feels like not enough to justify that much +crit (over +power), so its nice to see the gut feeling match up with others' opinions. Thanks for the reply.

Thoughts on recommended crit for Balance/Madness - the numbers cited are before the +3% crit Talent for our Stance or include the Talent bonus? Really curious here since I haven't been under 30% crit (including Talent, excluding Agent/Smuggler buff) in quite a long time. My gear is currently is too high on Crit but not much I can do about that in the short term (Full time Long Commute internship boosting my resume but killing my summer). Would it be too much of a hamstring to throw in some +power BM mod/enh to replace +crit WH mod/enh? Or should I just take a deep breath and ride out the Rated PUGs?

Well written guide for the general populace - thanks! I particularly appreciate the inclusion of some Madness love. Some thoughts regarding the Gearing section for 7/3/31: I've found that a bit higher crit combined with the 2 pc Force Master set bonus (I go 4/4, but that's me**) will provide for a noticeable increase in survivability. It's not dark charge, but it adds up, and, coupled with canny use of Cloak/LOS, can keep you on your feet pressuring and playing objectives longer. My unoptimized half WH-self is sitting on around 27-28% unbuffed crit (35-36 with talent and agent), 75-76% Surge, 96% Accuracy and a decent, though unoptimized, amount of Power. I am (somewhat) less concerned about Surge given talent Surge buffs. ** With the change to everything (important) being modable, I've been really tempted to see what 4 PvE Stalker armorings and PvP everything else would look like. Might not quite hit 1100 Expertise, but you'd be close. The ability to run around with buffed 50% crit rate on Thrash (edit: plus 2/2 Claws of Decay) as Madness/Arika/DarkMadHybrid would be... stupendous (and the 2pc helps force management more than you'd think). However, sadly, I have nowhere near the time, nor the inclination, to grind PvE that much.

As a Madness junky myself, I'd be curious to see how your Balance spec looks. I have a hard time living without Elusiveness/Lightning Recovery as I use Speed to reposition a lot, for example, but I'll always consider the possibility of a better way of doing things. My other curiosity is this: is the 13/28 Hybrid commonly considered as much of a waste of space in Rated as full Madness? Currently lacking a guild (they moved onto Tera ages ago, almost entirely) so I feel my likelihood of talking myself into a Rated Group (PUG or otherwise) as Madness is fairly low. Is the 23/1/17 Hybrid my only option, because I'm stubborn and bored to tears by 31/x/x.

I have no idea what your level is, but if you're not level 50 doing endgame content it sounds like you and your companion (I used Talos mostly, sometimes Khem or Ashara depending on mood) are undergeared. Madness spec is more gear dependent than Darkness so you'll notice any discrepancies a lot more. If you are into level 50 endgame, then I'm not sure what to say beyond taking a careful look at the tools you have available and just practicing with them - it is a much different playstyle than Darkness. You may just not be used to it yet. In PvE you'll want Discharge to be up on one or two of your Death Mark targets, Creeping Terror on cooldown, Crushing Darkness every Raze proc. If you're just questing, I'd use Shock every once in a while to keep Unearthed Knowledge buff up. If you're doing ops, you'll want to remove Shock from your priority (damage:cost ratio is unfavorable over the long term) and just concentrate on DF, DOTs, and Thrash/Assassinate. Where you spent your last 10 Talent points may also contribute. 2/2 Insulation gives you medium armor and, though most will tell you otherwise, is invaluable. I never did ops very often, but in solo or duo PvE and PvP I wouldn't consider doing without it. Every so often I'll move those two points somewhere else just to try something new and I notice a HUGE drop in survivability. Beyond these generalities I can't give you much else without details. EDIT: 50 bracket PvP is also a whole other beast entirely, and I'd definitely need more details before giving relevant feedback on that aspect.

Thanks for the replies folks - much appreciated! I'll likely settle out on +power, unless Willpower and Crit dip more than I'd like shifting my remaining BM pieces to WH. Initially at least, since I've already gotten a bunch of cheap green level 50 Power augments. That'll give me a decent gauge on how much of a boost I can expect to see before I make the plunge on all purples. Hopefully getting grade 6 implant slots won't be horribly expensive.

I remain unconvinced that it will be complete doom, gloom, and skies falling - at least for Madness. That being said, I remain flexible and will (grudgingly) switch to the Hybrid if that's what it takes. Not that I have a team right now since, as with a lot of Anchorhead guilds, most of mine flat out unsubbed (as I did until server swap) or flooded over to Tera in the past few months.

I've been out of circulation for a while so not only are my skills rusty but my knowledge (and notes) are out of date. I mainline Madness (Balance) and may end up switching to the Darkness/Madness Hybrid for Rateds if I judge it necessary. Bearing those things in mind: 1) +power or +willpower augments? Last I heard, consensus seemed to have settled on +willpower if you're already stacking +power on gear stats. Is there a ceiling I should eyeball on Willpower where it would be more beneficial to switch focus to +power once I breach that threshold? I'm hovering at 1500 right now. 2) With 1.3 coming and the changes to augment slots, am I correct in assuming that we'll be able to slot augments into Ear/Implants/Relics/Wrist/Belt/Offhand? If so, how does that change (or not) the answer to the first question? Thanks!

Credibility: zero. Seriously. This is one of those statements that sounds grander than it actually is, the Hybrid and full Madness have comparable utility. It has a pull, Madness has a root that ignores resolve; they both have instant WW - everything else is shared. The hybrid edges out with being able to Spike out of stealth, but this alone is not game defining. The Hybrid is a solid build, but I'll only be switching to it out of extreme necessity which so far has not been proven.