Sky_walkerPL Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 -1 to using red text in posts -1 to anything that goes cross-server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 That's the key right there and why so many folks want an LFG system. They want to play and get things in the game without having to put forth any effort to achieve these things. Some folks want to see that effort required, Can you make both parties happy? No you cant. One will always whine if you just try to make the other happy. True diplomacy in this situation would be to make neither party happy yet add in something that both parties can live with. I am sick and tired of being told I want things in this game without putting in any effort. My effort should come from the flashpoint not the brain numbingly tedius process of finding groups. Sitting around the fleet isn't effort. Spamming general chat isn't effort. Flagging myself in a useless LFG system isn't effort. Whispering random people does require effort but success isn't defined by my skill but on the whims and interests of those who I am whispering. The current system is pure tedium for so many of us. It's not effort. It's not challenge, its a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphix Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think they do need a dungeon finder because I've looked everywhere and I've yet to find a dungeon in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) -1 to using red text in posts -1 to anything that goes cross-server. Wow, amazingly passive aggressive. Sorry you're feeling such nerdrage, guess it would be okay for me to use red coloring if I named my account Darth_Vader. Edited February 9, 2012 by MalignX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lulzbot Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am constantly finding groups for HMs and I'm even PUGing HM Operations now. Why are you guys having problems? And don't tell me 'lol no one plays republic' because I play republic. I have 4/5 Rakata pieces from PUGing. The game does not need a dungeon finder, it needs YOU to talk to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am constantly finding groups for HMs and I'm even PUGing HM Operations now. Why are you guys having problems? And don't tell me 'lol no one plays republic' because I play republic. I have 4/5 Rakata pieces from PUGing. The game does not need a dungeon finder, it needs YOU to talk to people. Congratulations! So when they implement the LFG tool you won't have to even bother using it! But thanks for the useless post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I am constantly finding groups for HMs and I'm even PUGing HM Operations now. Why are you guys having problems? And don't tell me 'lol no one plays republic' because I play republic. I have 4/5 Rakata pieces from PUGing. The game does not need a dungeon finder, it needs YOU to talk to people. It's cool dude. If they add a LFG tool its a win win. For those of us having trouble finding groups we will be able to find groups, for those of you who have no trouble can just keep doing what your doing. Everybody wins. If finding groups becomes more difficult for you, it just means YOU need to talk to people even more. Edited February 9, 2012 by Moricthian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecrologyX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's cool dude. If they add a LFG tool its a win win. For those of us having trouble finding groups we will be able to find groups, for those of you who have no trouble can just keep doing what your doing. Everybody wins. If finding groups becomes more difficult for you, it just means YOU need to talk to people even more. Yeah, this is the part that I dont get why there is such hate. If I am not finding groups, then "YOU" arent playing with me anyway. So what do you care if I press a button to play with 3 other random people WHO ALSO CANT FIND GROUPS?!?!?!?! Like, in WoW I have two options to form groups 1) the old fashioned way spamming trade/general/friends lists/guild 2) press a button Guess what. I do both. Sometimes I do a mix of the two (awesome, we have a heal and a dps, lets queue for a tank and 2 more dps!), sometimes I do exclusively one or the other. But if you hate one of those options so what. If you are finding groups so easy you must... Play at better times for your server than I do Picked a more in demand class than I did (for the record, I am a heal specced Sage who can and will respec dps as needed) Have more friends who want to do things besides leveling alts Good for you! i'd like to press a button and do a dungeon. I'd like to be sick of the content, not sick of trying to get to the content. In wow I am tired of doing the dungeons cause I have done them so much. In tor I have completely given up after weeks of spamming only to have done less than 10 HM FPs (and even then its like taral V, koan, and esseles cause after 3 hours of putting a group together everyone wants to do the "easy" ones). Do you not understand the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Should probably start shopping for a new game then. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtarr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game. Pros: 1. Can continue questing while waiting for group to form. 2. Prevents trolls from sitting there ruining General Chat while they are bored trying to fill a group. 3. Proves that BioWare can do something like this. Buys street creds. Cons: 1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group. 2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role. Good Idea I think. This would help on lag on the fleets as well. /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky_walkerPL Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If anything MalignX, I call that a passive-aggressive post: Congratulations! So when they implement the LFG tool you won't have to even bother using it! But thanks for the useless post! And a quote for truth: I think they do need a dungeon finder because I've looked everywhere and I've yet to find a dungeon in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mridc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Haven't read most of the thread, but I am against a dungeon finder. What I am for however is something Mythic has already done way back in DAoC. The LFG UI window.. Simply let people choose their roles and their desired content and put everyone flagged as LFG in a list that can be filtered and searched. Add a separate "LFM" list where groups can look for more people and this should really be good enough. As said above, this was something DAoC had back then. It is so basic and yet so functional I cannot fathom why BioWare has not bothered to put something like this in their game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I personally think that a non-cross server LFG tool is acceptable, because it maintains a sort of reputation for your characters on the server, but the moment they decide to make it cross server, I'm quitting. I've been down that path before with WoW and it wasn't pretty. To me, all it seemed to lead to was impatient people who couldn't care less about their group and all they could think was "Gear, gear, gear, gear, gear". I played WoW long before the implementation of the LFG tool, and I remember people actually knowing who I was on the server and were happy to have me as a healer and stuff. Then along came LFG and everyone faded into anonymity. Some may like this, I'm just saying that I do not. Anyway, that's my two-cents, luv y'all and have fun <3 So tell me which currently released main stream MMO youll go play that doesnt have a cross server lfg system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I am constantly finding groups for HMs and I'm even PUGing HM Operations now. Why are you guys having problems? And don't tell me 'lol no one plays republic' because I play republic. I have 4/5 Rakata pieces from PUGing. The game does not need a dungeon finder, it needs YOU to talk to people. Wasn't being passive aggressive at all, I found their post useless, I quoted it, and said I found it useless. -1 to using red text in posts -1 to anything that goes cross-server. You however think little snarky posts like -1 for red text, is some how witty or cute. You've added nothing to this discussion whatsoever But thanks for coming to waste space in the thread. Passive Aggressive would be me randomly posting how foolish I find people who name their accounts Skywalker. Edited February 9, 2012 by MalignX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Haven't read most of the thread, but I am against a dungeon finder. What I am for however is something Mythic has already done way back in DAoC. The LFG UI window.. Simply let people choose their roles and their desired content and put everyone flagged as LFG in a list that can be filtered and searched. Add a separate "LFM" list where groups can look for more people and this should really be good enough. As said above, this was something DAoC had back then. It is so basic and yet so functional I cannot fathom why BioWare has not bothered to put something like this in their game... You could have at least read the first page. Edited February 9, 2012 by MalignX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Good Idea I think. This would help on lag on the fleets as well. /signed Yeah I never thought of the fleet lag problem. Yeah another reason why LFD is a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mridc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You could have at least read the first page. Maybe I could have. But it's been a long day at work reading through pages of stuff and I did not feel like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaonis Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm against dungeon finders cross server, because it does kill community. But why there isn't an in-server dungeon finder is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm against dungeon finders cross server, because it does kill community. But why there isn't an in-server dungeon finder is beyond me. Cause EA rushed the game out. Same with combat logs not appearing because people thought Bioware vehemently wanted a game without those kinda features. Bioware has already damaged and fractured the community, lets hope it doesn't reach the breaking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 There are 14 people on Hoth atm, with nobody flagged with comments besides me in the LFG ... what part of socialization am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was thinking of something, why are people opposed to X-LFD for leveling dungeons? I know for a fact people are having a difficult time running them at the moment and it's only going to get worse as the game ages like every other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehjai Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm ambivalent about X-LFG, really, but I do remember that it wasn't all roses and sunshine in WoW when the system started. I got one word for you (and those of you who played/play WoW should know exactly what I mean): Queues. I am reasonably sure that there's the same disparity in SWTOR between DPS and Tanks/Healers that WoW had. We can sit here and laud WoW for the tool -- personally, I think it worked great -- but does anyone remember the crowing about DPS queues? It wasn't uncommon for a DPS to be waiting 30-45 minutes to do their dungeons, when tanks and healers got into a dungeon a heck of a lot more quickly. The playerbase then looked to Blizzard, screaming "FIX THIS", and all sorts of hamfisted measures were taken to get more tanks and healers into X-LFG, which the playerbase screamed "THAT'S NOT FAIR" about. (It was a terrible argument; the company can't make a certain percentage of its players be tanks or heals, so what else were they to do save incentivize the people who *do* stick their neck out?) Now, I'm bringing this up to remind the present/former WoW players about what LFG does in practise, as opposed to in theory. Depending on your role, even with a cross-server LFG in SWTOR, you may still have to wait awhile for your group to form. There might be ridiculously long queues. I just hope that if and when X-LFG comes about and we get into this queues problem as we invariably will, that the community doesn't place blame on BioWare for the roles that the players choose to play; that the community doesn't screech "UNFAIR" when BioWare eventually has to incentivize tanks and healers to get them to run*. It is entirely possible that right now, at this point in the game, it's an organizational and administrative quagmire that BW doesn't want to get into. TL;DR - Remember dungeon queues in WoW? Remember Call to Arms and all those issues? Yeah, we're going to have them here in SWTOR if X-LFG comes our way. *I'm operating under the assumption that there are more DPS than tanks/heals in SWTOR; if this isn't the case, well then, the inverse can always ring true too; long queues for tanks/heals, and short queues for DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkittles Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm ambivalent about X-LFG, really, but I do remember that it wasn't all roses and sunshine in WoW when the system started. I got one word for you (and those of you who played/play WoW should know exactly what I mean): Queues. *SNIP* TL;DR - Remember dungeon queues in WoW? Remember Call to Arms and all those issues? Yeah, we're going to have them here in SWTOR if X-LFG comes our way. *I'm operating under the assumption that there are more DPS than tanks/heals in SWTOR; if this isn't the case, well then, the inverse can always ring true too; long queues for tanks/heals, and short queues for DPS. Yeah I was hoping that SWTOR would do something other than the "holy trinity" for their classes. But alas, that ship has sailed. So if they do add a WoW type LFD tool, we will most definitely see people whining on the forums about queue times and everything you talked about that happened in WoW. The thing is, I don't care about that because just like in WoW, I won't be on the forums anymore asking for a better tool. I'll actually be playing the game, which I am most definitely not doing now. Or at least, not as much as I want to be doing. So bring on all of the inevitable complaining when they do add a cross-server LFG system. I'll be a happy boy running FP after FP. And maybe Bioware is that good and somehow they will create a better system than WoW has. One can hope. But I'm a realist and at least want what WoW has currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm ambivalent about X-LFG, really, but I do remember that it wasn't all roses and sunshine in WoW when the system started. I got one word for you (and those of you who played/play WoW should know exactly what I mean): Queues. I am reasonably sure that there's the same disparity in SWTOR between DPS and Tanks/Healers that WoW had. We can sit here and laud WoW for the tool -- personally, I think it worked great -- but does anyone remember the crowing about DPS queues? It wasn't uncommon for a DPS to be waiting 30-45 minutes to do their dungeons, when tanks and healers got into a dungeon a heck of a lot more quickly. The playerbase then looked to Blizzard, screaming "FIX THIS", and all sorts of hamfisted measures were taken to get more tanks and healers into X-LFG, which the playerbase screamed "THAT'S NOT FAIR" about. (It was a terrible argument; the company can't make a certain percentage of its players be tanks or heals, so what else were they to do save incentivize the people who *do* stick their neck out?) Now, I'm bringing this up to remind the present/former WoW players about what LFG does in practise, as opposed to in theory. Depending on your role, even with a cross-server LFG in SWTOR, you may still have to wait awhile for your group to form. There might be ridiculously long queues. I just hope that if and when X-LFG comes about and we get into this queues problem as we invariably will, that the community doesn't place blame on BioWare for the roles that the players choose to play; that the community doesn't screech "UNFAIR" when BioWare eventually has to incentivize tanks and healers to get them to run*. It is entirely possible that right now, at this point in the game, it's an organizational and administrative quagmire that BW doesn't want to get into. TL;DR - Remember dungeon queues in WoW? Remember Call to Arms and all those issues? Yeah, we're going to have them here in SWTOR if X-LFG comes our way. *I'm operating under the assumption that there are more DPS than tanks/heals in SWTOR; if this isn't the case, well then, the inverse can always ring true too; long queues for tanks/heals, and short queues for DPS. As it stands now, the queues for leveling as DPS are under 10 minutes. For cataclysm content 80-84 it's around 20 minutes, for level 85 normal it's about 10 minutes, regular heroics at 85 are under 10 minutes and premium heroics are 30 minutes. You gotta realize, traveling alone to a dungeon use to take 10 minutes, with people traveling at different speeds, afk/bio breaks before the run started as people gathered up and the act of putting the group together was like 30 minutes at a time. Heaven forbid if you lost someone you had to travel all the way to a city and HOPE someone would come. So yeah the queues were perfectly reasonable. In this game with one less DPS per group, it's going to be a nightmare, especially with how difficult tanking is compared to WoW. I'd say minimal 45 minutes while leveling and an hour+ at max level. It'll incentive people to form their own groups which in case everyone will win. Thank you for your positive comments towards the debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Bioware just sent me a survey asking why I stopped my subscription. I told them I would come back if they put a LFD tool in place. Hopefully enough people who quit over this will tell Bioware the same exact thing to light a fire under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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