Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[TarikGur]

I do not get how those who desire an LFG are characterized as opposed to socialization. Socialization will happen anyway it isn't like they've taken a vow of silence or something. They just want to form groups faster. See a list of groups, find one you want to do, click apply to group, maybe get accepted. Then into the action!

 

Intra-group dialog will still occur:

"Thanks for accepting me to the group"

"Target X first", "Ok"

"Ready?", "Good to go"

"Anyone know a good way to do this?"

"Good job!"

"Good run all!"

 

 

Instead of:

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(X whispers to you: Fine don't invite me!)

/r "Sorry didn't see your message in all the spam"

(Player is no longer online)

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(X whispers to you: Hard mode?)

/r "No"

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(30 minutes later...)

/p "Omg this is taking forever."

/p "Sorry but I'm out of time to play now, good luck"

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Exactly right.

 

I used to be in dungeon finder groups in WoW that rocked, we would stay together all day running randoms. We chated, we knew how the other was going to play, it was great fun. But without the dungeon finder ability, I would have never found those fun groups, and been stuck in chat all day looking for a group.

Edited February 8, 2012 by TarikGur

[Moricthian]

I do not get how those who desire an LFG are characterized as opposed to socialization. Socialization will happen anyway it isn't like they've taken a vow of silence or something. They just want to form groups faster. See a list of groups, find one you want to do, click apply to group, maybe get accepted. Then into the action!

 

Intra-group dialog will still occur:

"Target X first", "Ok"

"Ready?", "Good to go"

"Anyone know a good way to to this?"

"Good job!"

 

 

Instead of:

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(X whispers to you: Fine don't invite me!)

/r "Sorry didn't see your message in all the spam"

(Player is no longer online)

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(X whispers to you: Hard mode?)

/r "No"

/1 "Anyone doing normal Hammer Station?"

(Other spams from other people desperately trying something similar)

(30 minutes later...)

/p "Omg this is taking forever."

/p "Sorry but I'm out of time to play now, good luck"

 

This.

 

People don't realize that just getting a group together faster does not instantly destroy the social factor of the game. I hate the current system of grouping with a passion. Last night I spammed general chat and even messaged some people trying to get a group going for Taral V. I was the only person on the fleet who was flagged for LFG. That system is beyond useless. You know what I got? Nothing. Nobody was interested and I didn't get a chance to run it. Because I didn't get a chance to even do the group I didn't really get the chance to be social outside of talking to a few people that ultimately didn't join my group. It was a horrible experience and a few more like this will turn me off of this game.

 

Don't talk as if the core of an MMO can be completel summed up in the headache of getting groups together. Every group I have entered has consisted this or something similar

 

LFM Hammer Station

 

*wait ten minutes*

 

Whisper: I'll go

 

*wait 5 minutes*

 

Whisper: Invite Plz

 

*wait 15 minutes*

 

Whisper: Do you have a healer?

 

Me: No, you in?

 

Whisper: Sure

 

Me: Okay, let's go.

 

That's it. The above is the social experience these anti-LFG people are fighting so desperately to force everyone to endure. We talked some more later that night after we got into the flashpoint. The social experience is far moe comprehensive and extensive than just the grouping experience.

 

I'm sick and tired of it. I'm actually goint to pick up FF XIII-2 today after work because I need to play something that doesn't consist of sitting around the fleet for 45 minutes trying to get a group. THIS IS NOT SOCIAL. Anti-LFG people need to stop speaking as if the pre-flashpoint stage is this renaissance of social fun because, though it might be fun for them, it is miserable for a ton of other people and unless something changes, we might not stick around.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Moricthian

[Sendrel]

That's like saying that if bars/clubs are supposed to be social, why is it permissible that you go to one and drink/eat alone and not talk to anyone?

 

The idea of grouping with other people is intrinsically social. It is the thing that the game centers around. PvP is organized to be done in groups. PvE is organized to be done in groups. Solo activities -- crafting, levelling, et cetera -- are just drivers/time sinks for these other two environments.

 

And, in case you haven't noticed, the chat frame is constantly intrusive.

 

When you have "groups" that are just formed by a computer at the click of a mouse, all social meaning is gone. The incentive to make friends/acquaintances, the incentive to quid pro quo with other players -- i.e. helping them so they'll help you -- is gone, because you can just get people by clicking the mouse.

 

The LFD system -- from WoW -- unavoidably destroyed social expansion in the game because it made it so that people were easily-accessible tools to accomplish an end. It replaced people as the end and made them the means. Instead of playing the game to have a great time with your friends, and to meet and interact with new people, you play the game to get gear and do dungeons so you can...

 

...play the game. The game just becomes this circle of self-justifying activities, rather than an engine which cultivates inter-personal relationships.

 

WoW without the LFD was an engine that produced productive and enjoyable inter-personal relationships. I wasn't bored, wasn't guilded, and barely even raided for the first year or so of BC, I was too busy meeting people and doing heroic 5-mans. Some of those people that I met are still good friends, even though none of us play WoW anymore.

 

Since WoW had the LFD added, I haven't succeeded in meeting anyone, because the grouping mechanic which drove the fostering of inter-personal relationships is gone. People become cloistered in their guilds, with no incentive to go out and interact with other people. The people they need to get their dungeons done are provided out of thin air by the LFD system. These people will never be seen again, and their feelings are irrelevant. Making them like you is irrelevant. Making them want to group with you is irrelevant. Similarly, dumping all over them for some small personal gain -- whether it be ninja looting or making an unskilled player leave so you finish faster -- has no downside.

 

It turns the game from a social engine, to an asocial grindfest which actually actively encourages antisocial behaviour.

 

Note that "asocial" and "antisocial" have disjoint meanings.

 

So fix the aspects of cross server LFD that 'destroy community'? Add cross server friends lists, chat and the ability to group for group content across servers? I disagree with pretty much every point you make in that post, but even I were to agree with all of them, the solution to the problem isn't to step backwards in time 10 years.

 

You know what I don't get (since we're waxing rhetorical)? How so many people can put on their nostalgia pants and get all weepy over the golden days of grouping and decry cross server LFD as the sole source of that community's destruction. Either the community was as you claim - the single greatest source of socialization known to man. In which case, cross server wouldn't have had any impact on it at all. People would still be lining up around the block to run dungeons with their e-friends. Or it wasn't so great. In which case, cross server still wouldn't have had any impact on the 'community' at all. If those people you guys hold in such high regard (the individuals who make up the community) were really your BFFL, why did they abandon their community?

 

The answer is that a 'community' founded on the ideals of 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' isn't much of a community at all. It works fine provided there are no other options (hi2u EQ), but once an option is introduced that allows people to bypass the entire notion of quid pro quo, it goes out the window. Couple that with instanced content where people never had to really cooperate for anything meaningful, and the community you guys are so bent on reinventing is revealed as being really just a hollow joke.

[Drainedsoul]

I do not get how those who desire an LFG are characterized as opposed to socialization. Socialization will happen anyway it isn't like they've taken a vow of silence or something. They just want to form groups faster. See a list of groups, find one you want to do, click apply to group, maybe get accepted. Then into the action!

 

Yes, which is how it works if the LFG tool is not automatic and is not cross-server, but as soon as either -- or both -- of these elements is present, then socialization drops out of the equation because it is no longer pointful.

 

WoW had such a tool, in vanilla, BC, and early WotLK. You opened the LFG tool, selected what you wanted to do, added a note to yourself (like "tank") and were then visible to other people or groups wanting to do the same thing. They could whisper you, invite you, armory you, et cetera.

 

Moreover -- added in BC -- you were added to the channel "LFG", where you could talk to people looking to group up for something.

 

However, once the grouping becomes automatic then you're foisted upon people, and your reputation, skill, et cetera is not meaningful because you cannot be effectively excluded (or preferred over other players).

 

Once the grouping becomes cross-server, then there's no point to socializing because you'll never see the people again. You have 60 minutes (sometimes much less) to form some kind of connection beyond "wow he's good I'll group with him again if I can", which doesn't really happen, so people just retreat to being asocial because the effort of socializing no longer has any pay off.

 

Which brings you to where WoW is today. Groups are commonly griefed by people who cannot be effectively excluded. Groups are commonly silent as a tomb because no one's ever going to be grouped with any other given person again in all likelihood, and therefore they just go through the dungeon as automatons, with getting the boss down replacing having a good time with others as the ends.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Drainedsoul

[Touchbass]

Many people dont have hours upon hours to play...many people only have 90 minutes. And you might be surprised, but its those same people with little time on their hands that keep their subs going.

 

If this is to be a hard-core, raid only game...then so be it, it saddens me, but so be it. I wont be playing it. I have neither the time, nor the state-of-mind to be hardcore. My life is hardcore enough as it is. I dont need the stress of a perfect raid run and clicking every single button at the exact right time in the exact right location. I want to be able to play with a general knowledge of the game and the specific environment im in.

 

 

 

Im a casual gamer and proud of it.

 

I'm with you brother and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase feels this way.

[Drainedsoul]

I'm with you brother and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase feels this way.

 

Then play a game from a genre that doesn't require such a heavy time investment?

 

Seriously, LFD strips the soul out of MMOs.

 

Would you walk onto a Ferrari dealership with only five thousand dollars to spend?

 

Why would you play on MMO with only 90 minutes stints during which to play it?

[Touchbass]

Because I like the way manual grouping works and I don't want the whole community to be sucked into the vacuum of automatic grouping.

 

You'll still be able to find groups manually. I was able to in WoW post X-LFD, maybe you need to be more polite on your server and you'll get those invites.

 

 

 

If you didn't think all the other opinions were wrong, why would you have the opinion that you do?

 

/facepalm

Edited February 8, 2012 by Touchbass

[Morpurgo]

Cross-server dungeon finder or this game will die! Altough I suspect that it will die anyway from the amount of boredom you experience after you hit 50.

[Sendrel]

However, once the grouping becomes automatic then you're foisted upon people, and your reputation, skill, et cetera is not meaningful because you cannot be effectively excluded (or preferred over other players).

 

I'll let you in on a secret: outside of a few people you may have run with routinely, none of that stuff was meaningful to anyone other than you anyway. The answer isn't to throw out a system because it ruins your personal sense of social engineering. The answer is to include features that can help build it back up.

[Touchbass]

Then play a game from a genre that doesn't require such a heavy time investment?

 

Seriously, LFD strips the soul out of MMOs.

 

Would you walk onto a Ferrari dealership with only five thousand dollars to spend?

 

Why would you play on MMO with only 90 minutes stints during which to play it?

 

Listen, the problem here is the MMORPG's for you is a time-sink hobby and for the rest of us it's a game we play. The old rules of MMORPG's work for you but not for us. You guys would never had this many Western subs if the old models existed, you guys are being phased out. Maybe MMORPG's are not for you anymore? There is no shame in not liking the new trend of MMORPG's but for second if you think Bioware is going to cater to you guys versus us you're dellusional.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Touchbass

[Moricthian]

Yes, which is how it works if the LFG tool is not automatic and is not cross-server, but as soon as either -- or both -- of these elements is present, then socialization drops out of the equation because it is no longer pointful.

 

WoW had such a tool, in vanilla, BC, and early WotLK. You opened the LFG tool, selected what you wanted to do, added a note to yourself (like "tank") and were then visible to other people or groups wanting to do the same thing. They could whisper you, invite you, armory you, et cetera.

 

Moreover -- added in BC -- you were added to the channel "LFG", where you could talk to people looking to group up for something.

 

However, once the grouping becomes automatic then you're foisted upon people, and your reputation, skill, et cetera is not meaningful because you cannot be effectively excluded (or preferred over other players).

 

Once the grouping becomes cross-server, then there's no point to socializing because you'll never see the people again. You have 60 minutes (sometimes much less) to form some kind of connection beyond "wow he's good I'll group with him again if I can", which doesn't really happen, so people just retreat to being asocial because the effort of socializing no longer has any pay off.

 

Which brings you to where WoW is today. Groups are commonly griefed by people who cannot be effectively excluded. Groups are commonly silent as a tomb because no one's ever going to be grouped with any other given person again in all likelihood, and therefore they just go through the dungeon as automatons, with getting the boss down replacing having a good time with others as the ends.

 

You're arguments are such nonsense. An automated LFG feature does not reduce the "meaning of the group."

 

You people claim that the current system offers choice as to who you group with.

 

Wrong.

 

Groupmates are so sparce right now I'm forced to group with whoever's interested. I have no idea who they are nor do I have any idea about their personality. But I group with them because they are available. The only difference between the automated system and the current one is that the later takes 30 minutes longer and doesn't allow me to PvP or quest during the waiting period.

 

Also, if you don't like the people the automated feature has put you with, you can take advantage of the kick feature. An automated group finder just finds groups, thats it. To somehow argue that this makes the group lose is meaning is a subjective statement with no evidence to support it. A PUG is a PUG regardless of how hit forms.

 

I can see what you mean with the cross-server though which is why they should include a cross server option on the LFG tool for those who don't mind playing with people they will never see again. Because, you know, we should allow people to play the game how they want to play and not force them to play it the same way you do.

 

The current system is terrible. I can' take much more of it.

[Touchbass]

I'll let you in on a secret: outside of a few people you may have run with routinely, none of that stuff was meaningful to anyone other than you anyway. The answer isn't to throw out a system because it ruins your personal sense of social engineering. The answer is to include features that can help build it back up.

 

I think maybe 1 out of a 100 maybe care about that stuff anymore. Besides all pug content is so easy these days that reputation doesn't mean crap if you're a skilled healer or not. The only skill part of a healer currently that I'm seeing in pugs is if the guy is heal specced.

[Touchbass]

You're arguments are such nonsense. An automated LFG feature does not reduce the "meaning of the group."

 

You people claim that the current system offers choice as to who you group with.

 

Wrong.

 

Groupmates are so sparce right now I'm forced to group with whoever's interested. I have no idea who they are nor do I have any idea about their personality. But I group with them because they are available. The only difference between the automated system and the current one is that the later takes 30 minutes longer and doesn't allow me to PvP or quest during the waiting period.

 

Also, if you don't like the people the automated feature has put you with, you can take advantage of the kick feature. An automated group finder just finds groups, thats it. To somehow argue that this makes the group lose is meaning is a subjective statement with no evidence to support it. A PUG is a PUG regardless of how hit forms.

 

I can see what you mean with the cross-server though which is why they should include a cross server option on the LFG tool for those who don't mind playing with people they will never see again. Because, you know, we should allow people to play the game how they want to play and not force them to play it the same way you do.

 

The current system is terrible. I can' take much more of it.

 

Really enjoyed the read brother More and more people are sharing this type of view and it warms me. For every day the game is out more and more people post about how frustrated they are, our side grows stronger!

[Skann]

What's better about the lack of XLFG is that the first 'batch' of 50s are mostly past the need to run HM FPs for gear, meaning, the more time goes by, the smaller will be the pool of players that needs to run these smaller group HM, making it increasingly harder for players to catch up.

 

Exactly what I saw in Rift. I started playing about 1 month after release, and when I got to level cap, majority of the players were only doing the tier 2 heroic instances, or simply raiding. Meaning, there was a unbridgeable gap between me and them.

 

So much for community building.

[TarikGur]

I'm with you brother and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase feels this way.

 

Thanks. But I want to state that im not against raiding, I just have no use for it currently. Let the raiders have their raids, and the rest of us have our easily formed flashpoint groups.

[EyeRekon]

So it looks like the points of contention are

• LFG Tool versus No
  
• Same-Server versus Cross-Server
  
• Automatic Fill versus No
  

 

Lots of support for LFG Tool and weak (IMO) opposition to it. Most concerns are about a Cross-Server one. I agree Cross-Server doesn't make good sense and is only a crutch to bridge localized population issues. Population issues can be resolved separately and constitutes just one of the reasons people have trouble finding groups. LFG tools can address the other factors.

 

From DDO, I love putting the group leader in charge and would be uncomfortable with an automatic fill.

Edited February 8, 2012 by EyeRekon

[NecrologyX]

Then play a game from a genre that doesn't require such a heavy time investment?

 

Seriously, LFD strips the soul out of MMOs.

 

Would you walk onto a Ferrari dealership with only five thousand dollars to spend?

 

Why would you play on MMO with only 90 minutes stints during which to play it?

 

Because this isnt 1999 where a 15 hour raid was "the norm" a la the EQ1 days. This is the Post World of Warcraft land where 90 minutes should be long enough to do just about anything but a raid (and I think some on these boards even claim you CAN raid in under an hour).

 

I'm sorry, I am in much the same position as the dude you are rippin on - I have a ridiculous amount of time to spend on games, but in smaller stints. I can log into wow (I dont want to, realllllly I dont want to) and queue for a dungeon and be done with it in 45-60 minutes EVEN IF I HAVE TO WAIT IN AN AUTOMATED QUEUE FOR HALF THAT TIME. In ToR, I have to manually parse every line of chat and sort through 1283913829103 sentinel DPS toons before I find a tank.

 

And yes, I use trade, general, my servers level 50 channel, flag myself as LFG and what spec(s) I can cover, am in a fairly active guild, whisper people of the appropriate level... doesnt matter.

 

I did cancel the game not because there was nothing to do at 50, but because THERE IS FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIN NO ONE TO DO IT WITH

[Touchbass]

Okay?

 

I don't understand your mentality. You're playing an on-line, "massively multiplayer" game, and yet you want to just do things without having to interact with people, when those activities are explicitly designed to involve other people.

 

There are games that let you do this.

 

KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are examples, they're even in the Star Wars universe too! You can fire them up and have your party of people whenever you want and they only exist to do exactly what you tell them to.

 

So, why are you playing this game instead of that one?

 

See, you don't want TOR to have a new feature, your real complaint is that they made TOR instead of KOTOR 3.

 

I don't think you understand demographics. The reason WoW got so big is because they made it so single player accessible with great content. You don't know the mentality of the playerbase so don't impose your ideas on them. MMORPG's are finding more success in putting out single player orienated content then group content becaus most people don't want to do group content cause of the hassles it brings. I'm sorry that bothers you but it's the reality of the situation

[Drainedsoul]

You'll still be able to find groups manually. I was able to in WoW post X-LFD, maybe you need to be more polite on your server and you'll get those invites.

 

Sure it's happened that I've somehow gotten a 5 person pre-made since LFD was put into the game. I've spent most of the time I've been playing in active raiding guilds after all, but these are the exception, not the rule.

 

Back in BC, as an active player, you were part of a community of people. Your name got "out there" and people knew you, or knew of you. You had people on your friends list just because they were a good tank, or healer, and you could hit them up if you needed a tank or healer.

 

It wasn't just "oh we need a tank let's just hit the queue button" as it is now, and don't try and tell me that isn't the way it is now. I've tried to form PuGs from my server before, and in all cases the people just want you to hit the queue button instead of actually waiting to find people.

 

So since you can't select players for quality, everyone suffers from the lack of quality in the player base, which means that content is nerfed endlessly so that groups made without regard for composition or player skill, and without the ability to effectively exclude terrible people (or preferentially include good people) can get through the content.

 

It's a net drain on the game as a whole. There's a reason BC and vanilla are looked upon fondly by the WoW community, whereas WotLK (and even Cata) are eschewed. It's because the game was fun and engaging, as opposed to a chore-filled grindfest.

 

BC heroic 5-mans were like nothing that's been put into the game to date, even the hellish Cataclysm heroic 5-mans didn't come close to BC heroic 5-mans. The only reason the outcry about Cataclysm heroic 5-mans was so great is because people had been conditioned to believe (by WotLK) that they should be able to just slap 5 people together (with the assistance of the LFD, of course) and steam roll it.

 

If you like rewarding, challenging game play, you can't want an automatic, cross-server LFD, because those two are mutually exclusive. The latter leads to the elimination of the former.

 

If you like meeting people, making friends, and playing with the same people over and over, you'd better either have a large base of established friends before automatic, cross-server LFD hits, because meeting people in LFD groups is nigh impossible (I haven't managed to actually meet anyone in them to date, whereas I met new people constantly in BC).

 

But if you want to treat TOR like it's Call of Duty or Counter Strike, and you want to throw a little tantrum because the genre won't conform to your time constraints, then by all means, agitate for it.

 

Because heaven forbid you should have to make intelligent decisions. Heaven forbid that a game which relies on the involvement of other people -- i.e. an MMO -- should be contingent on other people being around when you feel like it.

 

While we're at it though, why don't we petition the government, to develop a tool, to group people together at bars, or the movie theatre, in case all your friends just happen to be busy? After all, if you don't have someone to go out with, or go to the theatre with, whenever you want, that's a travesty, and you're paying for the food (at the bar), and the tickets (at the theatre), so you ought to have people to do these things with!

 

/facepalm

 

That's not an argument.

 

I'll let you in on a secret: outside of a few people you may have run with routinely, none of that stuff was meaningful to anyone other than you anyway.

 

What are you talking about?

 

The people I "may have run with routinely" I never would've "run with routinely" had there been an LFD system...

 

...how are you not understanding this.

 

In order to meet people, you need a way to have recurring interaction with them. When you're thrown into a random group with someone for 30-60 minutes, that's rarely a basis for recurring interaction.

 

Sure, you could add them to Real ID, but what if they don't want to give their e-mail address out?

 

And besides, why bother when you can just hit the button and get another tank/healer/dps anyway?

 

Interpersonal relationships don't just grow out of nothing. You don't get on the same bus as someone and instantly become friends. There needs to be something that forces you together as a precursor to the relationship developing.

 

LFD gets rid of that.

[EyeRekon]

Which brings you to where WoW is today. Groups are commonly griefed by people who cannot be effectively excluded. Groups are commonly silent as a tomb because no one's ever going to be grouped with any other given person again in all likelihood, and therefore they just go through the dungeon as automatons, with getting the boss down replacing having a good time with others as the ends.

 

DDO had a great model for this. And it wasn't automatic.

[Drainedsoul]

MMORPG's are finding more success in putting out single player orienated content then group content becaus most people don't want to do group content cause of the hassles it brings.

 

An MMORPG where all the content is effectively single player is no longer an MMORPG.

 

There are RPGs full of single player content, they are simply called "RPGs" because you don't need other people to play them so they're not "multiplayer", massively or not.

 

How is this concept difficult? I gave you an example. BioWare makes squad-based RPGs where you have a party of entities that are under your control and available for you 24/7/365, no LFD needed!

Edited February 8, 2012 by Drainedsoul

[Skann]

So it looks like the points of contention are

• LFG Tool versus No
  
• Same-Server versus Cross-Server
  

 

Lots of support for LFG Tool and weak (IMO) opposition to it. Most concerns are about a Cross-Server one. I agree Cross-Server doesn't make good sense and is only a crutch to bridge localized population issues. Population issues can be resolved separately and constitutes just one of the reasons people have trouble finding groups. LFG tools can address the other factors.

 

Not only population, but also playing or not during prime time. The lack of XLFG penalizes people that can't play during a specific window of time. It creates huge gaps between geared and non-geared people, because one group won't mix with the other for way to many reasons.

 

In a XLFG scenario, given "derserter" type of debuffs you get from bailing a group, people will often endure running along under geared players simply because they just want to get their daily/weekly done.

[Touchbass]

Thanks. But I want to state that im not against raiding, I just have no use for it currently. Let the raiders have their raids, and the rest of us have our easily formed flashpoint groups.

 

I love raiding, it's just not a sustainable model for a game to survive on if it wants to make huge population projections.

[Drainedsoul]

Not only population, but also playing or not during prime time. The lack of XLFG penalizes people that can't play during a specific window of time.

 

There's something else that does that.

 

It's called "real life".

 

Other people are not tools for you to use to accomplish your ends. They don't play the game for your benefit. If you want this play a squad-based game. You don't have to go through all the trouble of paying a subscription or waiting in a queue.

 

It creates huge gaps between geared and non-geared people, because one group won't mix with the other for way to many reasons.

 

Yes because "non-geared" people can't become "geared".

 

Also I played with plenty of "non-geared" people who geared up quickly in BC. The barrier was mostly getting raiding gear, which the proposed situation doesn't address anyway.

 

In a XLFG scenario, given "derserter" type of debuffs you get from bailing a group, people will often endure running along under geared players simply because they just want to get their daily/weekly done.

 

So what you're basically saying is that you have a right to negatively impact someone else's gameplay, and that if they don't want to play with you, they should be penalized for it?

Edited February 8, 2012 by Drainedsoul

[EyeRekon]

An MMORPG where all the content is effectively single player is no longer an MMORPG.

 

Exactly which letters of the acronym does it violate?

MM = Lots of Players, Check

O = Online, Check

RPG = Game Style, Check

 

An FPS in Deathmatch mode could almost qualify. You're attaching your own meaning to it.