Are Sith really evil?

[Aeneas_Falco]

If that is the case, what causes a jedi to fall or a sith to be redeemed?

.

 

For the Jedi it is a slippery slope of giving in to temptation, and for the Sith using self-discipline to deny their baser urges.

 

A Jedi who gives in to temptation is acting on dark side emotions (anger, fear, greed, ect) while a Sith who shows self-restraint (compassion, mercy, altruism, ect) is committing a light side act. Over time it probably results in a total shift of force alignment, since they're effectively acting under the opposite spectrum of their current force alignment.

 

The lore also makes alignment shifts from dark to light a very difficult thing to do, and it's supposed to be very rare, even though the EU often makes it seem more common place than it should. I'd argue that being full light side probably also makes it a lot less likely for a person to fall to the dark side. It probably strengthens their resolve and makes them a lot less likely to succumb to temptation. It is probably no coincidence that most of those who do fall are relatively inexperienced Jedi, rather than someone like Yoda.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[ClayPeopleCry]

True force users aren't sith or jedi. They are gray force users.

 

Some of the gray force code:

There is no dark side, nor a light side.

There is only the force.

There is passion, yet peace.

There is chaos, yet order.

[Ruhun]

True force users aren't sith or jedi. They are gray force users.

 

Some of the gray force code:

There is no dark side, nor a light side.

There is only the force.

There is passion, yet peace.

There is chaos, yet order.

 

Half measures are a sign of weakness my friend.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Gray force users are one of the more terrible ideas conjured up in the EU by hack writers who didn't pay attention to the films, where it is made clear that you can't walk a line between the light and dark sides of the force. They also missed the memo that Star Wars is an old-fashioned fairy tale about a struggle between good and evil.

 

Morally gray antiheroes should be limited to Smugglers and the like.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[BrianDavion]

True force users aren't sith or jedi. They are gray force users.

 

Some of the gray force code:

There is no dark side, nor a light side.

There is only the force.

There is passion, yet peace.

There is chaos, yet order.

 

no sorry TRUE force users use the Sparkle Rainbow side of the force!

 

Behold MY completely made up BS code for it!

 

There is no darkness only cookies

There is no light only ice cream

magic sparkly rainbows make everything better!

and thus the rainbow sparkly side is most powerful!

 

 

see anyone can write up a BS code for a side of the force that doesn't exist. so please don't go spewing your bad fanon like it has some sort of basis in reality

[ebbehhm]

"Evil" and "Good" are only perspectives of each other. Evil technically is only a phrase used to define people who are enemies of the ones accusing.

 

Without Evil there is no Good, without Good there is no Evil.

 

I would define sith as malicious rather than evil, put it like this, the Empire and Sith are Nazi Germany, and The Republic is Cyprus, the sith and empire are a proud, but imperialistic culture, always seeking knowledge, power, domination, but also striving for passion and the fun in life. The republics are like Cyprus for the fact they're a weaker force in a big war they're right in the middle of, with internal conflict, like corrupting jedi and rebels, quite common. But they're quite wealthy and own an arrange of amazing geography.

 

Its all perspective, nothing more, nothing less. I am more of a sith player, mainly because i like lightninging people, not because i want to be Evil, but because its funny.

[BrianDavion]

calling the Republic a "massivly weaker force" suggests a lack of understanding of the situation. the Republic is NOT weaker. it's more or less militarily equal to the Empire

[alricka]

If anything, the Republic is stronger than the Empire in military terms, or at least was during the Great War. The Empire managed to score early victories mainly due to the surprising and fast attacks it launched, but by the time of the treaty of Coruscant, the war was heading to a stalemate the Imps would not have won because they couldn't match the Republic's enormous manpower. The treaty was good for the Empire because it ratified their control over key systems, but it never would have been signed if it weren't for Malgus' assault on Coruscant.

 

During the time of the game itself, which is just a few decades later, the Empire was probably stronger than it had been initially, but the Republic had also had time to lick its wounds and prepare. And the fact that the Empire lost planets like Corellia and Balmorra hit them hard.

And while the Republic guys have troubles with separatists and the occasional corrupted Jedi, the internal strife is small compared to the Empire's where the Sith are CONSTANTLY fighting against each other (much more so than the Jedi who, as a whole, are cohesive and on the same page) and where stuff like Malugs' rebellion and Baras' scheming happen; heck, even on Dromund Kaas you deal with rebellious Sith lords like Grathan, the Revanites and Tytonus, while on Coruscant your enemies are either criminals or Imps, not Jedi gone rogue. If anything, the Empire is going to be ultimately defeated not so much through the Republic's efforts, but due to their own infighting. And I consider myself an Empire fan, but still, one can't ignore the obvious.

[adormitul]

Infighting is overrated have any of you ever heard of the Roman empire you know the empire that survived for over 1000 years. Do you know that they had entire an century of almost constant infighting while they had to deal with a powerful empire in the east and still survived for more then a 1000 years that had its share if infighting?

Once after they where greatly reduced they lost Egypt, Syria, basically everything besides Anatolia and where in a civil war. The winner of the civil war recovered the lost provinces in a couple of years. So losing most of your territory losing a civil war and recovering in a couple of years that does not seem to bad. Of course it does not help that they lost them again in a couple of years to another enemy but well better then their former enemy.

Edited February 6, 2016 by adormitul

[Aeneas_Falco]

calling the Republic a "massivly weaker force" suggests a lack of understanding of the situation. the Republic is NOT weaker. it's more or less militarily equal to the Empire

 

Indeed, it was even winning the war before Zakuul showed up.

 

Corellia was implied to be a sort of Stalingrad for the Empire. It is said to have lost a tenth of it's entire military in the Corellia campaign, not to mention three members of the Dark Council who get cut down by Jedi or Republic characters. Considering that the losses were severe among such high ranking Sith, it's probably a safe bet that the losses were also as severe or worse among the rank-and-file Apprentices and Lords deployed to Corellia.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[BrianDavion]

Indeed, it was even winning the war before Zakuul showed up.

 

Corellia was implied to be a sort of Stalingrad for the Empire. It is said to have lost a tenth of it's entire military in the Corellia campaign, not to mention three members of the Dark Council who get cut down by Jedi or Republic characters. Considering that the losses were severe among such high ranking Sith, it's probably a safe bet that the losses were also as severe or worse among the rank-and-file Apprentices and Lords deployed to Corellia.

 

worse then Stalingrad actually. Stalingrad only destroyed about 5% or so of the nazi military IIRC,

[IvanTheFurious]

I've seen this topic come up a number of times, and it's gotten me to thinking: Are the Sith really a truly evil organization, or are they just completely misrepresented by people like Palpatine?

 

I'll start this off by presenting my own opinion on the matter. I personally believe the Sith to be a morally-neutral organization, one that has a select few bad seeds scattered here and there. The Sith use passion and emotion as conduits of the Force, as opposed to the Jedi, who use Inner Peace instead. The Jedi recognize that there are areas of the Force that cannot truly be understood or entirely controlled... Areas that they dare not access. Therefore, they practice restraint, dubbing this unexplored territory the "Dark Side" of the Force, and condemning any and all practitioners of its arts.

 

Now, this next part is what really sells me to the Sith... The Jedi detested Dark Side users do much that they hunted them to near extinction, in a manner quite similar to the Crusades. The Jedi hold themselves on a mantle above the Sith, declaring themselves "Good" and their enemies "Evil." But I now present to you the question... Are the Jedi truly good? And are the Sith, by extension, evil? Let's look at the facts.

 

Jedi:

1. The Jedi cut themselves off from all physical attachment, considering emotion and attachment dangerous and dark. But last I checked, wasn't love a good thing? The same goes for joy, attachment, and many forms of passion. Take the love and attachment of a mother and child, for instance. What could be more good and pure than a love such as this? Yet the Jedi's principles condemn such a love, seeing it as a lure for the forces that they don't understand (AKA, the Dark Side)

2. The Jedi are hypocrites to their own code. They condemn pride, yet declare themselves the single good, holy force in the galaxy, and condemn their opponents as evil. Is such a declaration not prideful?

3. As Yoda himself stated in the novel-version of Revenge of the Sith, the Jedi's downfall came about because they stayed true to their old ways, while the Sith embraced change and adapted to a growing universe, taking on new ways and adapting to be as versatile as possible.

 

Sith:

1. The Sith embrace all emotions and physical affection, seeing passion as a powerful and wonderful thing. Yes, they wield Hatred, Anger, and Fear as blunt tools to master the Force, but they can also use positive emotions, such as Love, Joy, and Attachment, to wield the same powers and abilities.

2. Many look down on the Sith, seeing only individuals such as Palpatine or Malgus as representatives of the entire organization. Yes, some who wield the Dark Side of the force delve into the wrong areas, and become corrupted by it's unconteollable power.. But it seems that these individuals have cast a dark light over the entire Sith organization. Not all Sith are necessarily evil.

3. They have lightning.

 

All in all, I believe that the Sith are the true gems of the galaxy. What do you think?

 

I agree. This is completely true in my opinion, as the Sith and Jedi wouldn't be at war if it wasn't for the Jedi. The Sith were Jedi who decided to use the dark side, but the Jedi disagreed so they exiled them. Pretty ridiculous, huh?

[ludoviccb]

I agree. This is completely true in my opinion, as the Sith and Jedi wouldn't be at war if it wasn't for the Jedi. The Sith were Jedi who decided to use the dark side, but the Jedi disagreed so they exiled them. Pretty ridiculous, huh?

 

Also, the Sith in the Swtor games are the survivors of a genocide commited by the republic against them.

 

If you look at the story of the species, before the dark jedi arrived and took over the sith leadership, their were a society similar to feodal Japan with strick case system which promoted military achievements.

 

Also, for the Jedi, most would be like Albert Ganzenmüller was for the Nazi, not directly participating, but supporting, people involved in slavery and genocide. Also, the Republic itself isn't a democratie, it's a regroupment mostly made of dictatorships, absolute monarchies, theocraties and oligarchies. Having representatives of non-elected people voting on issues doesn't make a democratie.

[Jakoben]

I agree. This is completely true in my opinion, as the Sith and Jedi wouldn't be at war if it wasn't for the Jedi. The Sith were Jedi who decided to use the dark side, but the Jedi disagreed so they exiled them. Pretty ridiculous, huh?

 

Seriously? Its the same as saying that me ****** you is your fault since you're hot...

I play sith and I love them but they enslave, they torture and kill for pleasure and conquest and when they run out of worlds to conquer, they will colapse with infighting, since thats what sith do, they conquer and they lust for power. Their natural state is at war.

So I guess I can say they're pretty evil to me...

[Rhyltran]

I agree. This is completely true in my opinion, as the Sith and Jedi wouldn't be at war if it wasn't for the Jedi. The Sith were Jedi who decided to use the dark side, but the Jedi disagreed so they exiled them. Pretty ridiculous, huh?

 

Wrong. Read up on the force wars. Those that practiced the dark side created a massive civil war. The losers of that war were exiled instead of executed (this shows jedi mercy btw.) They then landed on korriban, subjugated the people there, attempted to create a master race, and began plotting revenge on the jedi order.

[rakshadaemon]

Also, the Sith in the Swtor games are the survivors of a genocide commited by the republic against them.

 

If you look at the story of the species, before the dark jedi arrived and took over the sith leadership, their were a society similar to feodal Japan with strick case system which promoted military achievements.

 

Also, for the Jedi, most would be like Albert Ganzenmüller was for the Nazi, not directly participating, but supporting, people involved in slavery and genocide. Also, the Republic itself isn't a democratie, it's a regroupment mostly made of dictatorships, absolute monarchies, theocraties and oligarchies. Having representatives of non-elected people voting on issues doesn't make a democratie.

 

I like the way you think! The republic is made out of countless corrupt governments, at least the Empire is unified. And as far as I can tell, the only reason Sith become evil is "because all the cool Darths are doing it"...

[Yermog]

As an organization, the Sith are evil. While individuals may differ, the mainstay of the population and those who direct the Sith and the Empire at large are evil.

 

I agree with this.

[IvamAkorahil]

I would argue with your view that Evolution and Natural selection as a form of competition is the main driving force of biological life. Thus peace is never achievable. There is always competition in one form or another - In humanoids expressed not only through warfare but also economics, personal strife etc etc.

[cool-dude]

No, just stupidly insane, but so are the Jedi.

[Joachimthbear]

I would argue with your view that Evolution and Natural selection as a form of competition is the main driving force of biological life. Thus peace is never achievable. There is always competition in one form or another - In humanoids expressed not only through warfare but also economics, personal strife etc etc.

I think I see where you're coming from, but there is a difficulty. In the real world, many religions and philosophies propose a higher purpose for human existence beyond all physical needs. If you don't adhere to any of those beliefs, then in the real world you might be able to say that there is no higher purpose - we're all locked in a struggle for survival and that's the end of it. But in Star Wars, the Force exists. There is demonstrable proof for the existence of the soul and empirical evidence for life after death. With the Force, you can transcend all your biological concerns and exist in a state of one-ness with the cosmos. Profound peace is absolutely attainable, and not even in the sense of oblivion - there are literally people who have died, achieved peace in death, and come back to visit the living, recognisable as themselves.

[Aeneas_Falco]

I see the edgelords are out in force.

[Ruhun]

I think I see where you're coming from, but there is a difficulty. In the real world, many religions and philosophies propose a higher purpose for human existence beyond all physical needs. If you don't adhere to any of those beliefs, then in the real world you might be able to say that there is no higher purpose - we're all locked in a struggle for survival and that's the end of it. But in Star Wars, the Force exists. There is demonstrable proof for the existence of the soul and empirical evidence for life after death. With the Force, you can transcend all your biological concerns and exist in a state of one-ness with the cosmos. Profound peace is absolutely attainable, and not even in the sense of oblivion - there are literally people who have died, achieved peace in death, and come back to visit the living, recognisable as themselves.

 

Sith usually don't achieve this kind of peace, even in death.

 

When they appear after death it's usually because of some holocron or they bound part of their will to an object to haunt a place.

 

I don't think SW every dealt with the afterlife beyond becoming one with the force.

I do wonder were Sith "go".

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ruhun

[PadsterPwns]

Sith usually don't achieve this kind of peace, even in death.

 

When they appear after death it's usually because of some holocron or they bound part of their will to an object to haunt a place.

 

I don't think SW every dealt with the afterlife beyond becoming one with the force.

I do wonder were Sith "go".

In legends the Sith go to a place called Chaos.

 

Here's a link if you're interested: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos

[Joachimthbear]

Sith usually don't achieve this kind of peace, even in death.

 

When they appear after death it's usually because of some holocron or they bound part of their will to an object to haunt a place.

Indeed; which is just part of the reason why following the path of the Dark Side is a bad idea.

[Ruhun]

Indeed; which is just part of the reason why following the path of the Dark Side is a bad idea.

 

They tend to not believe in Chaos or whatever the afterlife has in store for them, which is why they tend to bind their spirit to objects or strive for immortality.

Death is final.