is it me, the game, or the folks new to mmos?

[Xerda]

Dont blame all the beta testers. A lot of us brought up these issues repeatedly over the months with no word or actions from BW!

If it was not flat out a bug they didnt change much of anyting really.

its like they locked themselves in a closet for 4 years and said this is how we are doing it we are only interested in debugging.

 

It's always lame when the beta testers are blamed. It's not like BW has shown it's quick to respond after launch to anything reported. So why on earth do people think all the shed load of things that were reported in Beta testing would be treated any differently.

 

The only people to blame are BW

[MithurElb]

It's a design flaw. Also, a lot of players who seem to really love SWTOR aren't your typical MMO player. They're slow paced, don't really care for things that force them to do anything beyond their comfort zone.

 

You are mixing concepts. I, for a example, am a slow-paced player. I take my time, and hate all the rush that appear to be the drive of the elite-hardcoreplayer-im-the-boss-men.

 

But I know my DPS and my tanking. And I returned to MMORPG since the start of LOTRO. 4 years without play a single MMORPG.

 

I need a month or so to figure it all. It's no so hard.

 

 

I think this game have a lot more of flexibility than other MOORPG, and allows for more casual and slow-paced players to become good players.

 

But, being as it is, a different kind of game, a lot of people with preconceptions fail to see their environment; no problem, in a few months will bhe obvious.

[Lowenklee]

SWTOR does indeed have the least-skilled playerbase of any MMO I've played since Everquest. The level of bad in this game is truly epic.

 

The ONLY people you can semi-trust to do their jobs properly are the healers. The tanks and DPS are massively brain-dead.

 

Eh, it's a bit off-topic but I couldn't help myself...are you implying EQ1 had a predominately unskilled player base? When were you playing?

 

I recall, in the glory years, the difficulty of the game world weeding out the unskilled. It was a game in which progressing was not a given simply by virtue of continued play and most bad players never got further than the mid-levels. Early Norrath was a wondrous and pitiless world.

 

By contrast, and back on topic, modern games address a family friendlier fan-base for whom many of the punitive and high difficulty/steep learning-curve elements have been removed. Progression is viewed as an entitlement rather than an earned reward and consequently player skill has gone down dramatically.

[Drudenfusz]

Passed my mind as well, I haven't had any of these experiences on Empire. It would make sense since most new MMO players usually pick the morally good/seemingly better side first.

Started playing during early access on republic side and had not much trouble with bad players... but maybe its because the server had queue by the time of release so that the folks that just bought the game then decided to play on other servers and the folks who had waited long for this MMO where on those servers that started early. Wouldn't be surprised if the problem is server based and not faction based.

[areto]

I think part of it is you at least. Swtor tanking doesn't necessarily mean you'll have all the aggro, there's meant to be some damage happening to the dps while they burn the adds. So you'll have to get use to healing the dps every now and then. The game is designed to be like this, so it'd be far to easy for the healer if the tank was the only one taking damage.

[Ghaiana]

We have all been new to MMO's once. Just be glad new people start playing this genre.. Edited February 6, 2012 by Ghaiana

[Couac]

Started playing during early access on republic side and had not much trouble with bad players... but maybe its because the server had queue by the time of release so that the folks that just bought the game then decided to play on other servers and the folks who had waited long for this MMO where on those servers that started early. Wouldn't be surprised if the problem is server based and not faction based.

 

Could be, and I bet guild deployment has something to do with this as well. I would imagine that certain servers are mostly occupied by old guilds of which most are even from same servers from e.g. WoW. My server is like that, pretty much everyone was in a guild already on day 1, and then there are those servers that were set up after launch and probably attract new, guildless players.

[Embrosil]

I think every class gets atleast one crowd control ability. Bioware intended for us to use those abilities (that's why every class gets them), so the answer is in all likelyhood #3.

 

No, it does not. My scoundrel has none as well as my vanguard.

[Inat_mivea]

there are some bad players out there for sure - some of them are bad in terms of being new to MMOs and others are bad in terms of thinking they are super bad-azz.

 

Here's how it can go - you get in a PUG and end up wiping. Some mega-nerd starts berating everyone in the group and telling them how bad they suck. Group falls apart.

 

OR

 

It could go this way (which is how i handle it) - you get in a PUG and wipe. I kick the mega-nerd for berating people and then tell them all how to do handle what we're up against. It builds my friends list and just perhaps starts a few players down the path of becoming good MMO players.

[DarthKong]

Not everyone has played MMOs before. Just try explaining things to them. They'll probably be appreciative.

 

For those calling people "bads," etc. when they make mistakes, get over yourself. MMOs are about playing with others, and if you can't take a minute out of your gaming experience to try to pass on some knowledge/wisdom to others, you might be better off with single-player games.

Edited February 6, 2012 by DarthKong

[_Flin_]

Sturgeon's Law applies to MMO players as well.

 

90% of everything is crud.

 

But I have found a lot of talented players here. Especially the ones with MMO experience, and there are a lot of those.

[Jimudthesecond]

There's lots of new MMOers. Is what I think it is anyway. Just teach them. Try not to CAPS heh, they might take offence. Just say 'stop doing AOE's while I stun X' tell them to go for the same mob as the tank and try not to aggro. Don't pull stupid things. Although we can all do a Leroy Jenkins (accepted term) from time to time, just remember to try and help them first. Fire at will after if they still don't get it!

[Syylara]

No, it does not. My scoundrel has none as well as my vanguard.

 

Scoundrel-

 

Slice Droid (level 12): Hacks a droid, incapacitating it for 60 seconds. While sliced, the droid's systems reboot, causing non-standard and non-weak droids to heal rapidly. Damage causes this effect to end prematurely. Only one droid can be sliced at a time.

 

Tranquilizer (level 20): Puts the target to sleep for 60 seconds. Damage will break the effect prematurely. Only usable from stealth and only usable on targets not in combat. Only one target can be incapacitated at a time. Does not affect droids.

[Armourboy]

After playing for a bit I tend to think its because we have lots of inexperienced players. I did a few runs with my guild and everything was ok, done a few without and they aren't.

 

It's taken me a bit to get my head out of my *** and realize that for the first time in years I might actually be part of the problem.

 

A little bit of communication goes a long way. It only takes a few seconds to ask people if they have ever played an MMO before, if they haven't you know its time to put your teaching hat on, if they have then you can be less forgiving.

 

Its been an adjustment for me, but tbh the more I am around it I've kind of missed they days of needing to help my fellow players as a whole. It builds a far far better community than " you broke CC, you suck noob".

[Yfelsung]

Right now, think of a friend you have that is of "average intelligence".

 

Picture that person in your head.

 

Think of things they've said that have allowed you to come to the conclusion that they're of average intelligence.

 

Up to 50% of people are stupider than that person.

 

This should explain the current state of just about any community you can think of.

[Seraphynn]

My MMO experience I am not ashamed to say is Diablo II LOD and well it may be an old game but the basics of grouping there seem to apply here also.

 

I may be new to MMO's but that does not mean I am stupid and do not understand the mechanics of Healer, DPS and Tanks. I find you ignorant to suggest such a thing. If someone you are grouping with seem to not understand their role explain it too them, and I don't mean in a condescending manner either with the silly name calling.

 

I have one of each class myself in both factions. My tank char is a trooper vanguard sitting at level 40 right now. When I started tanking heroics and FP's I told my group I am new to tanking so if I mess up tell me. I got no complaints what so ever. When my DPS groupie later invited me to RF and asked me to tank the Colicoid war games I must be doing something right.

 

So if you are grouped with someone who seems unsure of their role, help them.. Give them some friendly advice rather than yell Noob or some other silly comment and rage quit the group.

[Thor_Doomhammer]

I'm going to go with new players as well. I've had a few groups now where people have just straight come out and said "I don't know what you guys are talking about, what the hell is a tank?", or something similar. I think, as a community, we could do much better in how we treat these players. The 3 times this has happened to me, twice the group leader just kicked them straight out, the other I was leader and explained the concept to them, and lost a DPS who refused to continue unless I kicked the "noob". These players then become afraid to admit ignorance in future groups, and go from new players, to bad players. Those of us with experiance with MMOs in general really need to do a lot better with how we deal with people who don't know what they're doing.

 

Obviously I accept some people are just bad, and have no desire or see no need to get any better. If they won't take and act on advice when they're failing, I have no time for them either.

[Switch_Ares]

I'm probably pretty bad at this game, as this is my first real in-depth experience with an MMO. I am learning on the fly, taking my time through the leveling portion of the game.

 

I was just PUGged up with an experienced set of players for a more difficult Heroic on Taris last night, and I got to see first-hand what consequences my bad decisions cost the effectiveness of the team. Doing things like breaking cc with my aoe, attacking the wrong MOB, and dropping dps or losing aggro had noticable effects and were great learning experiences. I was given a tip about breaking cc from a groupmate (politely), but I was able to observe and correct the rest of the errors, mostly. I am glad that my pug was at least patient enough not to heckle me and eject me from the group.

 

There are a lot of abilities, and I am still working on learning all of them by finding out how they work in combat. It usually has to be in the more difficult heroics or flashpoints to matter, and I have to be playing with others who know what they are doing MMO-wise.

 

Veteran players can complain about noobs, but if they want this game to be fun, they need to help us become more competitive so that the endgame can be more populated with skilled players. Plus, who doesn't like a challenge?

[Gaznolan]

hey all

 

I guess i would come under what some people see as a bad player. I would say this is due to this being my first real go on a mmo. I agree i am not great at this game at the mo but over time i will improve.

 

The main issue i have been having is that people who see themselves as ''vets'' have no time to help people in a group with them who are new. I say this as very often i find myself in a group i accidently cause a wipe because i have done somthing wrong, this instantly leads on to a comment on the lines of OMG u noob U havnt got a clue. This then usaly leads to them kicking me out the group.

 

Before people say learn your class, there is only so far reading how to play on the internet will get you, sometimes a bit of guideance of more experianced players is needed.

 

As I find this attitude towards new players is very common even on the several servers i have tried, i now group very rarely.

 

So i would say its a combination of inexperianced players aswell as vets who simply can be rude and ignorant to new players. This causes a lack of cmmunication so no one ever learns

 

(sorry for bad spelling im dyslexic and didnt have a word check handy)

Edited February 6, 2012 by Gaznolan

[MasterKayote]

No youre not expecting too much. Thats just what you get after 4+ years of dependency on Recount and Gearscore. No situational awareness, teamwork, or even common sense.

[Pheroras]

I started my first character as a Jedi Sage. I decided I would lvl with the intent of being a healer. Every group I've been in for various FPs has no "order" to it. People don't understand that as a tank you have to have or should have situational awareness so if there's an add you need to pull it. DPS don't seem to understand that AoEs are going to break CCs which means A. you're going to draw aggro and B. since the tank takes priority for heals you're probably going to die.

 

This isn't meant to be a rant... I just want to make sure I understand.

 

1. Am I expecting too much?

2. Is the game just not set up in such a way that you really need the typical tank/dps/healer combo that you do in most mmos? (if so then that answers the first question as well)

 

or

 

3. Is it that this game in all it's awesomeness brought a lot of Star Wars fans who are not necessarily mmo fans who have no concept of what their classes role is?

 

Please understand... if the answer is #3 then I get it... in fact I think it's great that SWTOR has the potential to bring a lot of people to it who wouldn't otherwise play an MMO.

 

Also, I'm currently only lvl 17 so maybe it doesn't matter yet... it's just what I've noticed and it's fairly annoying. I'm not that douchebag healer that rage quits when things don't go smoothly. In fact I would love to take the time to explain to a new to mmoer how class roles work... but I don't want to sound like a pretentious ***** ya know?

 

i don't mind a playerbase that is fresh to MMO genre, but i have a problem with a development team/publisher that is....

[DarthKong]

i don't mind a playerbase that is fresh to MMO genre, but i have a problem with a development team/publisher that is....

 

/yawn

[Royalwarden]

I started my first character as a Jedi Sage. I decided I would lvl with the intent of being a healer. Every group I've been in for various FPs has no "order" to it. People don't understand that as a tank you have to have or should have situational awareness so if there's an add you need to pull it. DPS don't seem to understand that AoEs are going to break CCs which means A. you're going to draw aggro and B. since the tank takes priority for heals you're probably going to die.

 

This isn't meant to be a rant... I just want to make sure I understand.

 

1. Am I expecting too much?

2. Is the game just not set up in such a way that you really need the typical tank/dps/healer combo that you do in most mmos? (if so then that answers the first question as well)

 

or

 

3. Is it that this game in all it's awesomeness brought a lot of Star Wars fans who are not necessarily mmo fans who have no concept of what their classes role is?

 

Please understand... if the answer is #3 then I get it... in fact I think it's great that SWTOR has the potential to bring a lot of people to it who wouldn't otherwise play an MMO.

 

Also, I'm currently only lvl 17 so maybe it doesn't matter yet... it's just what I've noticed and it's fairly annoying. I'm not that douchebag healer that rage quits when things don't go smoothly. In fact I would love to take the time to explain to a new to mmoer how class roles work... but I don't want to sound like a pretentious ***** ya know?

 

lvl 17? you've done eseless? wich is almost soloable and you should always look at yourself first what can i do to make this group work it's like your expecting other people to solve your issues?

tell them what to do give them tactics advice COMMUNICATION!!!!

[Yfelsung]

load of nonsence. WOW healing is not easy mode.

 

ALL MMOs are easy mode.

 

Let's be honest here, they're marketted to the lowest common denominator. The skill level needed to be really good at MMOs is a very low amount of skill.

 

Tanking and healing may be harder than DPS, but they're still very very easy.

 

I am honestly surprised that people who are not good at MMOs can do simple things like walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

Being unskilled at an MMO literally requires either a significant disability or a very low level of intellect.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Yfelsung

[AsheraII]

You're expecting too much. You don't want to know how many WoW failures came to this game, since they were so far behind the top-dogs in progress, they figured they'd be able to get part of the top by having an even start.

 

Sadly enough, the ONLY strategy they ever learned in WoW was: AOE. While AOE's can be very useful and important in TOR, they are rarely the solution to getting through the fight. So yeah, they kinda failed in WoW, and fail even harder here. Big shame there's so many of them. We could handle educating a few of them, but there's more of them than Rakghouls on Taris, so just ignore them if they don't listen and claim to know it all.

 

This is also why guildruns rock: to actually get things done. It may take a little more organizing, but it's soo worth the effort.