darth_billy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) 1st of all swtor is my 1st mmo thats why i dont get a few of the mmo terms you use and i dont know well the the talents on specs except those i have played(marauder mostly)so you might(rightfully ) comsider me as a noob. I agree with tymri's point about hybrids they are oped i can solo kill everyone i have troops for launch every day but sorcs and sages sometimes cant be beaten. the true reason i decided to have a say on this post is that i am really pissed most of you dont get how hard and demanding it is to be a marauder(& sentinel i suppose) btw Tumry i bow down to you you are a monster:eek: marauders are pure dps we have no stuns our "true" buffs are really hard on rotation and they have big cooldowns , they require you to to do 30!!!! succefull attacks 1st or to use frenzy(3min cd) . we have only 2 ways to do serious damage with a single skill like many of which ranged players have(+the ridiculously mere cds lke the 6sec cd on shock and lighting) or without using a combination of skills. These 2 ways are ravage(15s cd) with 4m range and chaneled for 3 secs it is uselless on pvp since the opponet can simply move out of harms way(i use it only o foes that are stunned ) to counter this drawback you have to go at least 28(31 ofc) at carnage tree to make your ravage immobilize your target but if you do so you have to sacrifice your 2nd to none damage dealer anhilate from the omonymous tree. vicious slash is an instant & reliable hitter but as i noticed it takes almost 3/4 of a sec to be performed the point here is you can connect vicious slashes in a row easily but you can also go 31 on carnage tree and get massacre who deals similar amount of damage(if ataru form) and it is way more fluent. Helpfull effects like saber ward have 3 min cd which is a life time on pvp. rage tree on top has force crush which only helps finish a kill but though it is similar to ruprure but with a 10m range also it has a talent at tier4 that gives you 20% armor penetration that means there is no such a hybrid in our class ways to escape death or being outnumbered : only 1 intimidate (1 min cd) no stuns ,no cc ,not even a mere selfhealing, force camouflage last 4secs helps only when you have mates around so they have to stop targeting you things you have to do-overcome to get a kill :1) force charge to close disatance 2) knockbacks 3) stuns 4) more stuns 5) force charge is finnaly out of colldown 6) go to step 1 and this time the target han enforcements we have no skills that utalize the environment like force,pull or overload we only can force choke someone on a fire spot and thas why all crie babies claim that is oped despite the fact it has 1 min cd. the only skills we have without no drawbacks s force scream battering assault and cloack of pain.(maybe i forget some unimportant ones) medals: i deal about 130-200+k damage i do 22-36+kills and i get only 5-7 even though i do at least 2-3 solo kills every wz 1 get only 1 medal and there is no difference to deal 75k damage or 200k since the ranks are Combatant - 75k Damage Dealt Destroyer - 300k Damage Dealt but still there is 1 medal for 1, 3.5,10k heal-guard!!!! btw these number are superasy to get on a wz not to mention that we are the 1st target of farmers. on illum we unarguably have try more than anyone else to farm our kills since we dont have any force attacks with range more than 10meters HONESTLY I AM FINE WITH ALL OF THESE i really like the marauder most than any of my characters cause he makes feel that i really earn my medals and valor mostly than anyone else but to bring balance all the afformentioned things can remain the same, i suggest one adiitional skill that allows us to close distance even one that deals 0 damage and consumes rage(so its usable on when you are knocked back in a fight) OR a dramatic decrease to the cd of unleash , it think both are really fair since we are the most susceptible spec to stuns and cc short ranged and medium armored. Though i have be honest marauders most the times are poorly skilled the vast majority doesnt rotates properly to aplly their buffs and they do not use interrupts and on top of all they dont use obfuscate one of the most usefull tricks in our arsenal! Edited February 7, 2012 by darth_billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Because they are crazy easy to play. Just like merc. And get MASSIVE rewards for very little effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elivapor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Oh, look. Thread number 10 000 about how somebody got destroyed by some class in PvP and decided to make a topic about it. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) This. Thank you for skipping 11 pages of discussion in favor of just giving a +1 to the very first reply. Your insight is much appreciated. Edited February 7, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nythain Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 1st of all swtor is my 1st mmo thats why i dont get a few of the mmo terms you use and i dont know well the the talents on specs except those i have played(marauder mostly)so you might(rightfully ) comsider me as a noob. I agree with tymri's point about hybrids they are oped i can solo kill everyone i have troops for launch every day but sorcs and sages sometimes cant be beaten. the true reason i decided to have a say on this post is that i am really pissed most of you dont get how hard and demanding it is to be a marauder(& sentinel i suppose) btw Tumry i bow down to you you are a monster:eek: marauders are pure dps we have no stuns our "true" buffs are really hard on rotation and they have big cooldowns , they require you to to do 30!!!! succefull attacks 1st or to use frenzy(3min cd) . we have only 2 ways to do serious damage with a single skill like many of which ranged players have(+the ridiculously mere cds lke the 6sec cd on shock and lighting) or without using a combination of skills. These 2 ways are ravage(15s cd) with 4m range and chaneled for 3 secs it is uselless on pvp since the opponet can simply move out of harms way(i use it only o foes that are stunned ) to counter this drawback you have to go at least 28(31 ofc) at carnage tree to make your ravage immobilize your target but if you do so you have to sacrifice your 2nd to none damage dealer anhilate from the omonymous tree. vicious slash is an instant & reliable hitter but as i noticed it takes almost 3/4 of a sec to be performed the point here is you can connect vicious slashes in a row easily but you can also go 31 on carnage tree and get massacre who deals similar amount of damage(if ataru form) and it is way more fluent. Helpfull effects like saber ward have 3 min cd which is a life time on pvp. rage tree on top has force crush which only helps finish a kill but though it is similar to ruprure but with a 10m range also it has a talent at tier4 that gives you 20% armor penetration that means there is no such a hybrid in our class ways to escape death or being outnumbered : only 1 intimidate (1 min cd) no stuns ,no cc ,not even a mere selfhealing, force camouflage last 4secs helps only when you have mates around so they have to stop targeting you things you have to do-overcome to get a kill :1) force charge to close disatance 2) knockbacks 3) stuns 4) more stuns 5) force charge is finnaly out of colldown 6) go to step 1 and this time the target han enforcements we have no skills that utalize the environment like force,pull or overload we only can force choke someone on a fire spot and thas why all crie babies claim that is oped despite the fact it has 1 min cd. the only skills we have without no drawbacks s force scream battering assault and cloack of pain.(maybe i forget some unimportant ones) medals: i deal about 130-200+k damage i do 22-36+kills and i get only 5-7 even though i do at least 2-3 solo kills every wz 1 get only 1 medal and there is no difference to deal 75k damage or 200k since the ranks are Combatant - 75k Damage Dealt Destroyer - 300k Damage Dealt but still there is 1 medal for 1, 3.5,10k heal-guard!!!! btw these number are superasy to get on a wz not to mention that we are the 1st target of farmers. on illum we unarguably have try more than anyone else to farm our kills since we dont have any force attacks with range more than 10meters HONESTLY I AM FINE WITH ALL OF THESE i really like the marauder most than any of my characters cause he makes feel that i really earn my medals and valor mostly than anyone else but to bring balance all the afformentioned things can remain the same, i suggest one adiitional skill that allows us to close distance even one that deals 0 damage and consumes rage(so its usable on when you are knocked back in a fight) OR a dramatic decrease to the cd of unleash , it think both are really fair since we are the most susceptible spec to stuns and cc short ranged and medium armored. Though i have be honest marauders most the times are poorly skilled the vast majority doesnt rotates properly to aplly their buffs and they do not use interrupts and on top of all they dont use obfuscate one of the most usefull tricks in our arsenal! So start a thread demanding buffing marauders? I don't see marauder anywhere in the title of this thread, and if it's such a pain in the *** to play a marauder, maybe the solution should be to give them more utility or simplicity, and not destroy hybrid specs across the board? At least OP had points on topic, which I can concede to some of, though not all of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vales Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 False. Sorcerers do exceptionally well against all classes. The melee are actually the ones that give them a bit of trouble but their utility allows them to come out on top even against them. Rock Paper Scissors balance is also not how games are supposed to work. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykomyke Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Thank you for skipping 11 pages of discussion in favor of just giving a +1 to the very first reply. Your insight is much appreciated. Hey Tumri, your nerd-rage is showing. And the link from before from BioWare only stated that Marauders had a complex rotation. That's it. I don't get it; you claim you are so skilled. If you are skilled, then a complex rotation shouldn't bother you. The link was mainly about Juggernauts, but hey...keep grasping at straws bud. Such a weak argument. You literally contradict yourself at every turn, it's actually kind of amusing. And anyone who doesn't agree with you is either A) A troll or B) you reply with a snarky comment. News flash: If someone disagrees with you it's them disagreeing with your opinion. If you can't deal with people disagreeing with your viewpoint you should probably stop posting on the internet. Heck, you should probably stop communicating with humans AT ALL because if this is how you react in real life when you don't get your way....YEESH. I hate to see what happens then. You'd probably go climb a clocktower and take it out on all passers-by... Edited February 7, 2012 by Sykomyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_billy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So start a thread demanding buffing marauders? I don't see marauder anywhere in the title of this thread, and if it's such a pain in the *** to play a marauder, maybe the solution should be to give them more utility or simplicity, and not destroy hybrid specs across the board? At least OP had points on topic, which I can concede to some of, though not all of. i dont start a thread to demand buffs because i dont care if they buff us or not. the truth is that marauders are under-skilled comparing to other specs. tumri quoted a post of a swtoe dev where they admits that dualwield specs are very demanding. my suggestions are what is needed to bring balance even if they take place they will still require skill to be administrated by players and thus i consider them the fair since all i am asking as a medium armored 4m-ranged spec in an addiottinal way to close distance cause now i can do so every it 15secs witch is too much if you consider how many knock-backs and stuns and slow downs we have to overcome. a ranged player every time he is knocked or immobilized can still keep dealing damage , a meelee player in the same position has to sto dealing damage & w8 to regain his mobility and w8 for his distance closer to coll down in my guild the majority of players are BH and they always tell me a GREAT marauder = a noob bounty hunter-sorc which seems to be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtdead Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'd like to see the 90% of sorc/sages in the game play anything else and do above average lol. Highest damage I've done in a huttball is 397k. Happened once when I had a personal healer and I'm full champion + bm ear/implants. Sorcs can do over 400k in most games and bounty hunters even more. Edited February 7, 2012 by gtdead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_billy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hey Tumri, your nerd-rage is showing. And the link from before from BioWare only stated that Marauders had a complex rotation. That's it. I don't get it; you claim you are so skilled. If you are skilled, then a complex rotation shouldn't bother you. The link was mainly about Juggernauts, but hey...keep grasping at straws bud. Such a weak argument. You literally contradict yourself at every turn, it's actually kind of amusing. And anyone who doesn't agree with you is either A) A troll or B) you reply with a snarky comment. News flash: If someone disagrees with you it's them disagreeing with your opinion. If you can't deal with people disagreeing with your viewpoint you should probably stop posting on the internet. Heck, you should probably stop communicating with humans AT ALL because if this is how you react in real life when you don't get your way....YEESH. I hate to see what happens then. You'd probably go climb a clocktower and take it out on all passers-by... do not judge marauders according to tumri's efficiency, 9.9/10 wz boards are dominated by ranged player , marauders are 9.9/10 times midtable or bellow at wz boards it's obvious you havent played a meele class cause if did you could easily realize that tumri is a MONSTER if he was running an assasin we could posibly go of the charts:eek: , the fact that he can cope with such a demanding rotation doesnt means it is ok , the effort-result plastigue is very unbalanced for this class. i bet everything i have if i give a full champ geared marauder you wont do more than 22 kills and 80k damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravis Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If I look at every AC I can see hybrids that give "unbalancing" utility and such. You're only picking on Sorcerors because they are the most common class so you see more of them so the chances of skilled players increase with a larger pool. Honestly, based on your epeen screenshots id probably be calling for nerfs to marauders. TLDR....OP encounters a few skilled Sorcerors and doesn't think it's fair since there should only be 5 players per server who are as skilled as he is. So that justifies nerfs to the class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spreadz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not even worth my time to upload pics so I'll just use the ones I posted before. I don't "get destroyed" by anyone. That doesn't mean I don't understand when a class is imbalanced and needs to be fixed. https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0 1. The above sentence indicates that you have made this thread before explaining how overpowered sorcs are even though your top as people have pointed out? 2. With this pic are you trying to highlight that Sorcs are OP or that your some sort of PvP legend? Look at me, I come top coz I got mad Skillz but Sorcs need a nerf coz sometimes they kill me even though this WZ board shows I dominate... Honestly as you mentioned this is your second attempt to have a class nerfed that you suposidly dominate. This didnt deserve this many pages of replies. You just want to show people how even though Sorcs are overpowered, your so skillful they cant beat you. Thread doesnt even make sense. Im a Merc healer for your info before you call me a Sorc lover or something as pointless as this thread you created to promote your badboy skillz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You know if there weren't so many stupid sorc this topic would've went a different direction. Give me any class I can be on top, you know why? 95% don't have any skill whatsoever they just faceroll on their keyboards , now go find a 500+ expertise sorc(that knows how to play his class) and duel him and I'm taking in consideration that anyone posting here has over 500 because if you don't well lets face it you don't know **** and shouldn't be posting. Now here 3 pics not in a single one did I join which was already started so the same time to do dps. http://imgur.com/a/SJjGn If you can't break 400k dmg as a sorc your ether bad like most are or another sorc outgearing you and stealing your dps I've only pvped vs 2-3 good sorcs in probably 200~ warzones games, not once have I've been cleansed of a negative effect even when some random decides to be my pocket healer kinda proves the points how many bad players we got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The problem with hybridized Sages and Sorcerers is primarily because taking 31 points in either of our DPS trees is largely a loss in DPS over going hybrid. If they made sticking to one tree to 31 viable people would at least sort of gravitate away from hybridizing when it comes to PVE DPS and PVP. In terms of PVP, however, Deal with it. Every good PVP spec for every class is hybrid. DPS/Heals or Tank/DPS, doesn't matter, you need a balanced approach to meet the shifting conditions in PVP play. I'd like to see the 90% of sorc/sages in the game play anything else and do above average lol. Highest damage I've done in a huttball is 397k. Happened once when I had a personal healer and I'm full champion + bm ear/implants. Sorcs can do over 400k in most games and bounty hunters even more. You're an idiot. I play my Sage to heal, I've been playing MMOs for ten years now, and every class I play I do well with, regardless of whether it's OP or not. The pendulum will swing, if Sages are still a problem, we'll get nerfed. I'll still play mine. Deal with it. Edited February 7, 2012 by Onager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry but using me as a counter example to Sorcerer dominance is stupid. People are taking my Rakata geared pubstomping screenshots out of context. I'll just post a screenshot where I played my level 21 sorcerer. I did 270k+ damage in random greens/blues and empty slots. Most people don't reach that damage in level 50 epics. The next 3 highest damage players in that match were level 40+. My skill level is why I dominate. Not my class. Marauders are the absolute worst PvP class in the game in terms of utility and usefulness. When I'm on my Sorcerer I feel like a walking god even with less than half the talents. I tried out a level 50 hybrid spec Sorcerer a while back and did upwards of 550k damage and 130k healing. Pity I don't have a screenshot since it wasn't on my computer. http://i.imgur.com/EDQk9.jpg P.S. - I scored twice and didn't even focus on doing max damage that game. Edited February 7, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_billy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm sorry but using me as a counter example to Sorcerer dominance is stupid. People are taking my Rakata geared pubstomping screenshots out of context. I'll just post a screenshot where I played my level 21 sorcerer. I did 270k+ damage in random greens/blues and empty slots. Most people don't reach that damage in level 50 epics. The next 3 highest damage players in that match were level 40+. My skill level is why I dominate. Not my class. Marauders are the absolute worst PvP class in the game in terms of utility and usefulness. When I'm on my Sorcerer I feel like a walking god even with less than half the talents. I tried out a level 50 hybrid spec Sorcerer a while back and did upwards of 550k damage and 130k healing. Pity I don't have a screenshot since it wasn't on my computer. http://i.imgur.com/EDQk9.jpg P.S. - I scored twice and didn't even focus on doing max damage that game. you have multiple 400k+ wz with a marauder you dont have to prove anything end of discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaman Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is a problem with this thread... and it has to do with the fact that ppl equate numbers to skill. So u can break 400k dps damage woopy do. In most warzones there are players that go for medals selfishly... and they dont try to defend/cap/etc.. as this would interrupt their 'perfect' game! A player that dont even play sage/sorc and qualifying himself to call for nerfs to another class is just arrogance or self conceitedness. So u get upset that a sorc/sage can escape your attentions because of too much cc? So lets nerf it to oblivion so u can have an easier time showing your epeeness:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is a problem with this thread... and it has to do with the fact that ppl equate numbers to skill. So u can break 400k dps damage woopy do. In most warzones there are players that go for medals selfishly... and they dont try to defend/cap/etc.. as this would interrupt their 'perfect' game! A player that dont even play sage/sorc and qualifying himself to call for nerfs to another class is just arrogance or self conceitedness. So u get upset that a sorc/sage can escape your attentions because of too much cc? So lets nerf it to oblivion so u can have an easier time showing your epeeness:D 1. Yes, WZs are about capping/defending/scoring. Sorcerers with incredible amounts of hybrid spec CC actually excel at doing this more than any other class or spec combination in the game. 2. Not sure what you mean by "A player that don't even play sage/sorc and qualifying himself to call for nerfs to another class is just arrogance or self conceitedness". Do you expect Sages/Sorcerers to go to Bioware and ask to be nerfed? It's incredibly stupid to say that those without Sage/Sorcerer mains should have no say. 3. For the last time. Stop bringing my own screenshots into the discussion. My success is anecdotal evidence and is more a testament to the lack of skilled players in an average PUG WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirolos Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 1. Yes, WZs are about capping/defending/scoring. Sorcerers with incredible amounts of hybrid spec CC actually excel at doing this more than any other class or spec combination in the game. 2. Not sure what you mean by "A player that don't even play sage/sorc and qualifying himself to call for nerfs to another class is just arrogance or self conceitedness". Do you expect Sages/Sorcerers to go to Bioware and ask to be nerfed? It's incredibly stupid to say that those without Sage/Sorcerer mains should have no say. 3. For the last time. Stop bringing my own screenshots into the discussion. My success is anecdotal evidence and is more a testament to the lack of skilled players in an average PUG WZ. 1. you clearly dont realize that what ever dps spec a sorc/sage goes they will have the same amount of CC available to them. 2. Yes its pretty arrogant, sorry, If i was to go around saying that Murauders kill me and ask for some of their skills to be nerfed or moved to the top of their tree's and i have never played a murauder wouldnt you call me arrogant? 3. Kinda hard not to when your class is one of the under the radar burst classes. It amazes me people thing Sorcs/sages need to be nerfed when you have sentinals and vanguards destroying people. 4. http://youtu.be/K1O0y73chUw Madness spec.. an AoE spec that tops WZ damage...I mean..thats just unheard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) 1. you clearly dont realize that what ever dps spec a sorc/sage goes they will have the same amount of CC available to them. 2. Yes its pretty arrogant, sorry, If i was to go around saying that Murauders kill me and ask for some of their skills to be nerfed or moved to the top of their tree's and i have never played a murauder wouldnt you call me arrogant? 3. Kinda hard not to when your class is one of the under the radar burst classes. It amazes me people thing Sorcs/sages need to be nerfed when you have sentinals and vanguards destroying people. 4. http://youtu.be/K1O0y73chUw Madness spec.. an AoE spec that tops WZ damage...I mean..thats just unheard of. 1. Did you even read the OP? 2. Marauders don't have hybrid options. I wouldn't care if you moved around some talents. 3. Marauders have some of the lowest burst DPS in the game. We're sustained damage. 4. Read. The. Original. Post. --- I really dislike how all the sorc/sages are now using attacks against me to try and discredit this thread. Please have some decency and actually respond/reply to the issues I have raised in the original post. Enough with the BS. Edited February 7, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneky Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 No, the reason they're OP is because people like you complain about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_billy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 he recommends to simply move the good skills on higher tiers of the trees not to nerf sorcs/sages. acoording to your saying none of you is an oped hybrid, then whats your problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 he recommends to simply move the good skills on higher tiers of the trees not to nerf sorcs/sages. acoording to your saying none of you is an oped hybrid, then whats your problem with that? this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syntxerr Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I really don't understand this whole whining about Sages. In fact they are extremely squishy at higher levels. If you find yourself beating around on some shield for 2 minutes, you're either doing something wrong or you're level 14. There are classes which manage to kill me in seconds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabcoatSamurai Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The problem with this thinking is that it's all about level 50 PvP. If you move the talents up the tree, you are changing the PvE leveling dynamic of the class. If I, as a TK sage, can't get TK Wave as my 11 point talent, what are you going to give me instead? How much playtesting and rebalancing do we need to make sure that's fair for all levels of play both in PvE and PvP? And once you've accomplished all that testing and balancing.... what about all the other talents you mentioned? This simply doesn't seem like a feasible solution. A better one would be to disincentivize hybrid spec in other ways. For example, take Wrath. Right now, it procs all the time and can apply to both crushing darkness and chain lightning, whichever one happens to be off cooldown. So put a limit on how often it can proc, like once per 10 seconds or so. That makes it much less useful to hybrid spec, since you can get that once per 10 second instant chain lightning from pure lightning spec, anyway. Or if you don't like that, make it so it only reduces the casting time to 0 for *specific* abilities. Basically, the more strict synergy you enforce within a tree, the less incentive anyone will have to do a hybrid spec. But you don't want to take it too far.... it'd be nice for hybrid to be a viable option, still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts