If you haven't beat the end game content, how is there lack of end game content?

[jarjarloves]

You have no idea what your talking about. The only real issue with wow when it launched was a massive amount of lag.

 

I ran into very few bugs in wow end game which consisted of ubrs until Molten core came out. I have only ever not been able to finish one raid/dungeon twice in the entire time since it came out. One of those times a gm reset our lock timer for the raid so we could do it again. Im at 6 in swtor in the first month an a half. Some of them were not even hard modes.

 

you are joking right? Server crashes all the time was a huge issue so much so my account gained about 3 full weeks of free time to make up for the constant crashes during prime time.

 

Molten Core had a ton of bugs like what was that giant two headed dog named? I remember he would enrage become invincible and tranq shot would not work on him.

 

Then after about 4 months too many guilds started raiding on a most of the servers which led to unbearable lag on friday night raids. No one could raid during prime time due to the raid.

[Paelos]

Depends on the content. I might be there but you don't have to enjoy it if you don't want to. I personally don't do a lot of pvp even though it's there because I think it's simply a numbers game with only a few minor skills involved. The rest is simply communication or the lack thereof.

 

That being said, I would complain about the lack of content if I'd completed the end of the PvE stuff and the next patch only contained pvp options.

[wifeaggro]

Honest, open discussion. No flame wars please.

-------------------------------------------------------

The complaint I see most in this forum is:

 

Lack of end game content.

 

When posed with the question "Have you beaten all the end game/hard mode content and have a full set of gear?" they will usually answer no. There is usually the claim that they don't want to or they assume they can beat it.

 

(Yes, that is an assumption, but I see quite often.)

 

So...for those of you who say the game lacks end game content please expand on what you want to see at end game. If you haven't beaten all the end game content, and you don't have a full set of gear, please explain why that doesn't equate to end game content.

 

a full set of Columi is not hard to get , unless your a force user. The normal mode 8 mans are Easy , lvling is easy, HM FP are easy. Rakata gear is not even really worth getting. So yes lack of end game things is a problem. no guild quests no guild lvls. Legacy missing for alternate advancement. a pletheroa of standard fluff content people do at end game like personal customization. Its all missing there is ton of things to be added to this game to make it a true MMO.

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

Its easy to beat. Just because you haven't done the same dungeon AGAIN on Nightmare mode (same mobs, same fights, more HP on bosses) doesn't mean you should desire to either.

 

Operations with multiple settings, so that they can continue to use 2 of them, is kinda a waste. HM FP's are all on farm. Am I missing some gear pieces? sure. Do I really care anymore about them? not really, do I really want to do EV a 20 more times to hope for a drop? not particularly. The only thing restricting success at that point is dungeon timers, not the difficulty and entertainment value of the end game content.

 

So what I read here is that there is End Game content, you just don't want to do it. Pretty much agreeing with the OP then?

[ROSS-]

as a player who beat both raids on NM 16man ..it was the easiest content in all of my MMo history Eq2, maplestory, Wow.Rift. My guild raids only 1 night to down both raids. Honestly we skipped the "Hardmode 4 mans" and jumped straight into normal 16 man to get gear. The bosses themselves DROP TOO MUCH LOOT. The whole loot table drops on 1 boss kill ***? Again there is no point to 4 man. Jump right into normal from quest gear. You get geared out TOO fast since the bosses drop a megaton of loot and it's so easy.

 

 

So yeah. i'm lvling alts and getting them geared out for the march raid. If the march raid is as faceroll easy ..i expect everyone to unsub.

 

did you leave constructive feedback in the correct forum regarding your personal experiences? BW is kind of new at this. its not like they are cursed forever because of these 2 ops. there will be plenty more to come.

[Crimsane]

So what I read here is that there is End Game content, you just don't want to do it. Pretty much agreeing with the OP then?

 

Pretty sure he said the same two ops with the same bosses with more hp doesn't equate to more content. Work on your reading skills.

[ROSS-]

Short answer to the OP: Because you are not stupid and quickly notice that it all goes down to grinding gear, which can be made in 1 week.

 

I'm not buying that. People in Wow would post that WotLK was too easy, but those people never saw algalon, firefighter, or HLK. You can't use the excuse "yeah, if I wanted to do the endgame, it would be too easy, but I don't want to be bothered with it." Talk is cheap.

[Dire-Wolf]

End game content isn't just dungeons and raids, it's what ever activities are available to do at end game.

 

TOR follows the traditional mmo model of focusing on level cap dungeons and raids. Many people enjoy doing these, many people don't. It's the people who don't enjoy them, or perhapes don't enjoy them enough to be satisfied with only doing one thing at end game, who are complaining about a lack of end game content.

 

They don't want more dungeons and raids to do at end game, they want other things. What those other things are will depend on the person.

[Shingara]

My end game review...

 

I Can sit in illum hoping more republic log in

 

I can run warzones ( which ive been doing since level 10 )

 

I can run dailies on belsavis, space or ilum...

 

I can sit for hours and try to run "progressively" ( gna do the finger quotes here "Harder") Flashpoints which is old because if you've ran them once.. its basically the same thing with harder mobs..

 

I can sit for hours looking for an op to join

 

End game is a HOOT

 

Right, are you seriously telling us its the games fault that you dont have a solid raiding guild to do ops with and thus is the games fault you spend so many hours sitting around doing nothing ?

[Tocaseven]

how can you be right handed when you have two hands.

[fadingdimension]

Child: Mom i'm bored.

Mom: Watch a movie.

Child: I don't wanna.

Mom: Go for a bike ride.

Child: I don't wanna.

Mom: I'll take you to the park.

Child: I don't wanna.

Mom: Do the dishes

Child: Temper Tantrum

 

Pretty much sums this up.

[Bregah]

So what I read here is that there is End Game content, you just don't want to do it. Pretty much agreeing with the OP then?

 

I guess it comes down to whether you consider heroic/hardmode/nightmare mode versions of the same stuff different content.

 

Mostly, I don't. Sure, Black Talon hardmode is different than Black Talon normal, but most stuff is not drastically different.

 

There used to be games that didn't have "hard mode versions", but actually had other stuff in place of that. WoW has only had hard modes for 2 expansions, but now that's the standard?

 

I'm not saying everything about WoW is bad, but it's not necessarily good, either.

 

As someone who did ICC 25 normal within 3 or 4 weeks of LK being available (day before 1st buff we downed him), when I went back to do ICC 10 heroic, I did NOT feel like I was doing any new content. Maybe the consensus amongst MMO players, now, is that if it drops better loot, it's new content, but meh.

 

Doing hard mode versions is about as interesting, in terms of "new content" as doing the exact same quests, only a couple levels lower, on an alt. Is it more challenging? Yes. Is it more interesting? That depends on the player.

 

For example, I beat Demon's Souls twice, but every New Game + adds about 8% difficulty, up to 8 or 9 NGs, I think. Did I not beat the game, because I only beat it on New Game +1? If I stop playing it at that point because I'm bored, and claim I have "nothing more to do", am I actually wrong because I can keep upping the difficulty and do the same things again and again and again?

[Shingara]

I guess it comes down to whether you consider heroic/hardmode/nightmare mode versions of the same stuff different content.

 

Mostly, I don't. Sure, Black Talon hardmode is different than Black Talon normal, but most stuff is not drastically different.

 

There used to be games that didn't have "hard mode versions", but actually had other stuff in place of that. WoW has only had hard modes for 2 expansions, but now that's the standard?

 

I'm not saying everything about WoW is bad, but it's not necessarily good, either.

 

As someone who did ICC 25 normal within 3 or 4 weeks of LK being available (day before 1st buff we downed him), when I went back to do ICC 10 heroic, I did NOT feel like I was doing any new content. Maybe the consensus amongst MMO players, now, is that if it drops better loot, it's new content, but meh.

 

Doing hard mode versions is about as interesting, in terms of "new content" as doing the exact same quests, only a couple levels lower, on an alt. Is it more challenging? Yes. Is it more interesting? That depends on the player.

 

For example, I beat Demon's Souls twice, but every New Game + adds about 8% difficulty, up to 8 or 9 NGs, I think. Did I not beat the game, because I only beat it on New Game +1? If I stop playing it at that point because I'm bored, and claim I have "nothing more to do", am I actually wrong because I can keep upping the difficulty and do the same things again and again and again?

 

The point of hard modes and nightmare modes is to make the thing harder and thus more challenging, in turn better rewards. and tell me if im wrong but havnt they already added an operation and extended it, plus added a new flashpoint and how long has the game been out again ?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Shingara

[ROSS-]

...

 

For example, I beat Demon's Souls twice, but every New Game + adds about 8% difficulty, up to 8 or 9 NGs, I think. Did I not beat the game, because I only beat it on New Game +1? If I stop playing it at that point because I'm bored, and claim I have "nothing more to do", am I actually wrong because I can keep upping the difficulty and do the same things again and again and again?

...

 

I actually think this a valid point. One of the things WoW did right was special HM only bosses, ie, Algalon & Sinestra. You could argue that you had to tread the same content to get there, but at least when you got there, you felt like you accomplished something different (not me personnally, lol, but those that did). I think BW would be wise to think about adding things like this.

[Bregah]

The point of hard modes and nightmare modes is to make the thing harder and thus more challenging, in turn better rewards. and tell me if im wrong but havnt they already added an operation and extended it, plus added a new flashpoint and how long has the game been out again ?

 

I know this.

 

I'm not actually complaining about "lack of end game content", either.

 

But I can totally understand why someone would.

 

I guess my main points are that I can totally understand why someone would NOT see a hardmode version of something as "new content", and that there were many games prior to WoW and LK expansion that never used hard modes as "end game content".

 

Ultimately, the general idea that "end game content" pretty much ONLY equals raiding in MMOs, I think, needs to change. To what, I don't know, but to something else.

 

But I'm way past the point of thinking - buy game, level to max, raid it's raids for 3 months and gear, raid the new raid for 3 months and gear, raid the next new raid for 3 months and gear, buy expansion, level to max, raid it's raids for 3 months and gear, raid the new raid for 3 months and gear, raid the next new raid for 3 months and gear, buy expansion, level to max...being what I want out of an MMO.

 

Maybe that's the only successful (financially) way to design one, I don't know.

[Bloodtau]

Honest, open discussion. No flame wars please.

-------------------------------------------------------

The complaint I see most in this forum is:

 

Lack of end game content.

 

When posed with the question "Have you beaten all the end game/hard mode content and have a full set of gear?" they will usually answer no. There is usually the claim that they don't want to or they assume they can beat it.

 

(Yes, that is an assumption, but I see quite often.)

 

So...for those of you who say the game lacks end game content please expand on what you want to see at end game. If you haven't beaten all the end game content, and you don't have a full set of gear, please explain why that doesn't equate to end game content.

 

 

Since when is grinding endlessly for gear "end game content"?.

Your argument is invalid, the door is that way >

[Emeda]

Not all end game content appeals to all players. Many people do not enjoy raiding and do not enjoy PvP. For them all that is left is flashpoints (quickly done those), daily quests (can be quickly done those or too bored to keep doing them) and a bit of exploration (not much to do there).

 

Bioware needs to release entire new planets of PvE questing with their major updates, not just Ops and flashpoints and a few new dailies.

 

Hate to tell you but I dont really see any way they can add more PVE quest content into the game. Imagine how long its going to take for them to get more voice actors to do all the work.

 

Hate to say it but I think the entire end game for this game is going to be PVP warzones and instances.

[ArtMonster]

So what you are basically saying is that you are not the farming type of person?

What are you doing playing an mmorpg? The whole process is to collect gear, when this has been done you move on to another character or move on to another game......

 

heh... you seem misinformed on this topic IMO, or just stereotyping every player....lol.

 

 

I dont collect gear.

 

I'm not a 'farmer'... or even a grinder above and beyond the storyline.

 

I have not collected even one endgame gear peice... I prefer modding the oranges over purples.

 

I have zero need to one-up someone over a few gear points... dont feel the need to stand in Fleet showing off a new chestplate.

 

heck...I got all the way to 50 ......solo....*gasp !!!!! I know Right !?!?!?

 

I havent run one flashpoint, operation or group mission yet... I dont like having to wait for people, or hurry up for others...and the bickering over loot is a big turn off...so solo is preferred yet again.

 

What I do, and what I get out of the game is my business, and what I find enjoyable is far from the list you provided.....

 

 

so ya.... your analysis of mmorpg's and the kinds of people that play them ...is...well..... short sighted at the least.

 

.

Edited February 4, 2012 by ArtMonster

[Mhak]

Why not just have 1 Operation but with 50 difficulties? Would that appease players?

 

How about 2 Operations but with 3 difficulties each, but have each op so small/short that a well-organized group can clear it in a couple hours?

 

Neither of those options (the latter of which is the case we have) is very conducive to replayability. You can't just rehash the same thing but make it a little harder, that's the cheapest way to try and give players more content when really you've done no extra work as a developer.

 

So outside of the incredibly small and easy-to-clear Operations that have almost no replayability, what else is there to do at endgame? PvP, which is a Korean grindfest with absolutely no immersion - I don't feel like I'm helping my side win a war (in Star WARS), I feel like I'm playing a minigame that's been duct-taped onto the main game. Rewards? What happens when you get 620+ expertise? Why keep PvPing? There's no sustainable incentive.

 

The only people who DON'T complain about lack of endgame content are the extreme casuals or people who have not experienced it yet. Arguing otherwise just tells everybody you're in one of those two categories.

[Shingara]

I know this.

 

I'm not actually complaining about "lack of end game content", either.

 

But I can totally understand why someone would.

 

I guess my main points are that I can totally understand why someone would NOT see a hardmode version of something as "new content", and that there were many games prior to WoW and LK expansion that never used hard modes as "end game content".

 

Ultimately, the general idea that "end game content" pretty much ONLY equals raiding in MMOs, I think, needs to change. To what, I don't know, but to something else.

 

But I'm way past the point of thinking - buy game, level to max, raid it's raids for 3 months and gear, raid the new raid for 3 months and gear, raid the next new raid for 3 months and gear, buy expansion, level to max, raid it's raids for 3 months and gear, raid the new raid for 3 months and gear, raid the next new raid for 3 months and gear, buy expansion, level to max...being what I want out of an MMO.

 

Maybe that's the only successful (financially) way to design one, I don't know.

 

well no one should see a hardmode as new content unless you class boss's have extra abilitys and maybe a few dif mobs in the harder modes compared to normal versions.

 

But lets get to the crux of this, hardmodes are there for one purpose and one purpose only, To attain the level of dificulty that really tests you. of course bragging rights come from this but that is a by product.

 

We are only just getting into this game. we have to expect there main priority to be bug hunting as no matter how many they had in the beta, the majority of the bugs in all mos will pop there heads up when the masses hit the game and really stress it and fools go around exploiting which forces rebalancing and resources pulled from other things to stop the exploits.

 

But even so we know for a fact the Bioware have got teams still going headlong on different aspects of content including endgame. its not like there running low on funds and they arnt scrimping on the quality of stuff given to us. ye some of the 'tweaks' have alot to be desired but the actual content delivered is of good design and at most needs a bit of tweaking.

 

The endgame we have now is healthy, illum is the major headache when it comes to an aspect of endgame and the majority of that headache comes due to the exploiters and a faction inbalance which they have said they are going to sort out.

 

Now if the game is still in the same state its in now in 6 months time i will put my hands up and say that bioware arnt pulling there weight but there has been no indication that they plan to just leave the game as is have they.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Shingara

[ArtMonster]

.....

The only people who DON'T complain about lack of endgame content are the extreme casuals or people who have not experienced it yet. Arguing otherwise just tells everybody you're in one of those two categories.

 

that's because us 'casuals' don't feel the need to mingle in a group of people pissed off all the time, and feed the fire of mirrored-discontent.

 

 

 

.... I'm loving the game..... 'away' from all the haters and self-proclaimed 'experienced' players......lol.

 

 

:cool:

Edited February 4, 2012 by ArtMonster

[ROSS-]

...

Rewards? What happens when you get 620+ expertise? Why keep PvPing? There's no sustainable incentive.

 

...

.

 

so you only do pvp to "gear up," and after that you don't like it? Sounds like you don't really like to pvp...

[Mhak]

hat's because us 'casuals' don't feel the need to mingle in a group of people pissed off all the time.

 

.... I'm loving the game..... 'away' from all the haters and self-proclaimed 'experienced' players......lol.

 

:cool:

 

Good for you. I feel happy that there are a group of people like you who enjoy this game. I don't want people to hate this game. I wish I could like it more.

 

I like your tongue-in-cheek attitude. It's almost like you think people with a different set of experiences and opinions than you must be wrong somehow, and that they deserve to be mocked for this. The sign of a truly mature and worldly individual.

 

so you only do pvp to "gear up," and after that you don't like it? Sounds like you don't really like to pvp...

That's the only incentive for PvP this game offers. "PvPing to PvP" is for games designed around PvP where the PvP is so fun that's a reward in and of itself. And even those games usually have ladder systems or other incentives besides gear.

 

If you're implying people should PvP just for the fun of PvPing...you haven't PvPd enough in this game.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Mhak

[ArtMonster]

Good for you. I feel happy that there are a group of people like you who enjoy this game. I don't want people to hate this game. I wish I could like it more.

 

I like your tongue-in-cheek attitude. It's almost like you think people with a different set of experiences and opinions than you must be wrong somehow, and that they deserve to be mocked for this. The sign of a truly mature and worldly individual.

...

 

heh....remember...'you' are the one who said this:

 

"The only people who DON'T complain about lack of endgame content are the extreme casuals or people who have not experienced it yet. Arguing otherwise just tells everybody you're in one of those two categories."

 

so....who is the one that thinks with a different set of experiences and opinions and others are wrong ????

 

hmmmm?????

 

 

lol :)

[Dunzo]

"It's a new MMO" - The number one most-used fanboy excuse for all problems, concerns, issues, and lack of anything.