The real problem with Grav round/Tracer Missile

[Daezihang]

I hear on good authority - my brother - that it isn't particularly interesting. I hear it essentially a 2-button spam fest. I'm not concerned with all the debate over how OP or not it is.

 

I simply don't like the idea of a class built around dpsing with 2 abilities. Arcane mage anyone?

[Aaoogaa]

So basically the same as a sorc/sage dps rotation.

[Gyronamics]

So go Assault.

[glenbruton]

I hear on good authority - my brother - that it isn't particularly interesting. I hear it essentially a 2-button spam fest. I'm not concerned with all the debate over how OP or not it is.

 

I simply don't like the idea of a class built around dpsing with 2 abilities. Arcane mage anyone?

 

So pick another class or build. Is it really that hard to consider?!

[Enzid]

I disagree with it just being two buttons, but I suppose the rotation could be a bit more interesting.

[ironzerg]

I disagree with it just being two buttons, but I suppose the rotation could be a bit more interesting.

 

Right. Don't be silly. It's just one button.

[lnknprk]

The spec has too much reliance on one ability. The real problem is that we HAVE TO Grav Round to make the spec move. If you miss your Grav Rounds, then the rest of the abilities suffer. It doesn't need nerfing. What it needs is balancing. Too much is riding on one skill. If they did nerf it I don't even see how they would do it. Doing too much damage doesn't feel like the problem. All the damage being attached to that one ability is what feels like the problem.

 

I fear that when they nerf it, they won't nerf the root of the problem. They will just nerf the damage that Grav Round or Demo Round does.

[LordKivlov]

I hear on good authority - my brother - that it isn't particularly interesting. I hear it essentially a 2-button spam fest. I'm not concerned with all the debate over how OP or not it is.

 

I simply don't like the idea of a class built around dpsing with 2 abilities. Arcane mage anyone?

 

If your brother is spamming tracer/grav then he's doing it wrong. You use grav round to proc full auto and power up HIB/Demo round. If you're prioritising grav over those 3 abilities then you're playing the class ineffectively.

 

Also, he's missing out on smart use of mortar volley (harder than DFA to use), plasma grenade and sticky grenades. They're situational abilities that can let you drop an entire point/door to half HP very quickly.

 

Grav Rounds doesn't need to be nerfed for the very fact that it's a casted ability. Every warzone has PLENTY, like god damn metric ****-tons of pillars and corners to abuse Line of Sight. If you're getting melted by grav rounds, then you're bad at utilising your terrain and deserve to be chain crit for 2-3k (sometimes 4 on new level 50's!) every 1.5 seconds.

Edited February 3, 2012 by LordKivlov

[valhak]

If your brother is spamming tracer/grav then he's doing it wrong. You use grav round to proc full auto and power up HIB/Demo round. If you're prioritising grav over those 3 abilities then you're playing the class ineffectively.

 

Also, he's missing out on smart use of mortar volley (harder than DFA to use), plasma grenade and sticky grenades. They're situational abilities that can let you drop an entire point/door to half HP very quickly.

 

Grav Rounds doesn't need to be nerfed for the very fact that it's a casted ability. Every warzone has PLENTY, like gosh darn metric ****-tons of pillars and corners to abuse Line of Sight. If you're getting melted by grav rounds, then you're bad at utilising your terrain and deserve to be chain crit for 2-3k (sometimes 4 on new level 50's!) every 1.5 seconds.

 

Exactly. It's alarmingly easy to shut down a Gunnery commando with smart use of LOS/Interrupts.

 

Cheers,

Edited February 3, 2012 by valhak

[ScytheNoire]

Not always true. If you are guarding the doors in Void Star, you cannot avoid it if the guy is sitting straight on. You'll get hit all day, unless you want to go run away from that which you are guarding and let him have the door.

[LordKivlov]

Not always true. If you are guarding the doors in Void Star, you cannot avoid it if the guy is sitting straight on. You'll get hit all day, unless you want to go run away from that which you are guarding and let him have the door.

The pillar is fairly close and melee with no ranged have leaps to get back to the door and melee with range have range to interupt.

 

Use your situational awareness. There's times when you can use LoS to your advantage, and other times when the commando has the upper hand like when the bomb is planted.

[Waagabond]

I disagree with it just being two buttons, but I suppose the rotation could be a bit more interesting.

 

Lol, your defending your playstyle.

 

You need 2 buttons with this spec.

 

1 for gravround, and 1 for aoe knockback for anyone coming near you.

Thats it.

Play it any other way and you lower your dps.

 

Its redicilous and frankly overpowered, since unlike arcane mages commandos and mercs wear heavy armor.

[jedip_enguin]

If you're playing with 2 buttons you fail at your class and at life.

 

Proper dmg rotation requires at least 5 buttons before even including all the stuff that everybody has to mash (cd's, relics cc's etc)

 

People who keep moaning about Grav Spam are just bitter cos they got focused by three troopers at once in the open and wondered why they died.

 

I saw one idiot claim Grav Round hits for 10k in another thread, and yet another that it hits (not crits) for 4k back to back constantly.

 

The hysteria is laughable.

[Tareel]

Lol, your defending your playstyle.

 

You need 2 buttons with this spec.

 

1 for gravround, and 1 for aoe knockback for anyone coming near you.

Thats it.

Play it any other way and you lower your dps.

 

Its redicilous and frankly overpowered, since unlike arcane mages commandos and mercs wear heavy armor.

 

You don't know the class very well if you think this. Grav round is the 2nd in rotation for me. Full Auto fisrt, 3 grav rounds to build up the DOT and to proc another FA, then HIB whenever it comes up. I only use Grav to keep the DOT up. If I were to only use Grav round, I would kill my DPS, as I would run out of ammo very quickly. As far as our knockback, it is on a very long cool down, you had better be using shockstrike to get at least one melee away from you, plus it does pretty good damage itself. Learn a Commandos full set of skills before you come in here talking smack.

[TUXs]

If your brother is spamming tracer/grav then he's doing it wrong. You use grav round to proc full auto and power up HIB/Demo round. If you're prioritising grav over those 3 abilities then you're playing the class ineffectively.

 

Also, he's missing out on smart use of mortar volley (harder than DFA to use), plasma grenade and sticky grenades. They're situational abilities that can let you drop an entire point/door to half HP very quickly.

 

Grav Rounds doesn't need to be nerfed for the very fact that it's a casted ability. Every warzone has PLENTY, like gosh darn metric ****-tons of pillars and corners to abuse Line of Sight. If you're getting melted by grav rounds, then you're bad at utilising your terrain and deserve to be chain crit for 2-3k (sometimes 4 on new level 50's!) every 1.5 seconds.

 

FANTASTIC and 100% accurate reply!!!

[IIIDCManIII]

I have 4-7 buttons I use mostly, including grenades. Most fights usually are the same, I lead with Flame Grenade, stick middle enemy with sticky, then I mix up what I do depending on who I am fighting. Seems to work pretty well for me.

[genesiser]

You don't know the class very well if you think this. Grav round is the 2nd in rotation for me. Full Auto fisrt, 3 grav rounds to build up the DOT and to proc another FA, then HIB whenever it comes up. I only use Grav to keep the DOT up. If I were to only use Grav round, I would kill my DPS, as I would run out of ammo very quickly. As far as our knockback, it is on a very long cool down, you had better be using shockstrike to get at least one melee away from you, plus it does pretty good damage itself. Learn a Commandos full set of skills before you come in here talking smack.

 

The problem is when fighting enemies that can block. Whether it's pve or pvp, fighting an enemy that can block can essentially make HIB and Full Auto near worthless.

 

I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was doing a 4 player heroic mission on voss. Most of the enemies on that mission were guardian type enemies, or enemies with high armor and high block chance. Normally my full auto hits for ~950 non crit and crits for about 1700. On those enemies I kept seeing full auto hitting for 450-550. Granted, it wasn't every attack, but it was quite a few of them.

 

When using HIB, that move normally hits for ~1400 and crits for ~2200. I saw lots of blocked attacks hitting for ~900.

 

Grav round on the other hand is immune to blocks and it hits for ~1400 and crits for ~2200. Every time I used it it would hit for somewhere around those numbers, never seeing a block. And of course, demolition round is the same.

 

And for those of you that aren't aware, you can tell when your attack is blocked because the damage number is tiny. So the numbers of full auto and HIB weren't low because of the enemy using a damage reduction ability, it was because of actual blocks.

 

In my opinion, all ranged special attacks should be immune to blocks because when fighting enemies that can block, it makes certain moves very weak. The mechanic of enemies blocking ranged special attacks is also what makes a gunslinger/sniper fairly weak if playing the non dot based spec because their attacks are not tech attacks. (one of the main reasons I quit my gunslinger and made a commando)

Edited February 3, 2012 by genesiser

[va_wanderer]

So in other words, because you found mobs that your standard rotation are weaker on, a fundamental part of the defense game should be nerfed so you get full DPS?

 

I'm not in the "everything should get hit the same way" club, honestly.

[Tareel]

The problem is when fighting enemies that can block. Whether it's pve or pvp, fighting an enemy that can block can essentially make HIB and Full Auto near worthless.

 

I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was doing a 4 player heroic mission on voss. Most of the enemies on that mission were guardian type enemies, or enemies with high armor and high block chance. Normally my full auto hits for ~950 non crit and crits for about 1700. On those enemies I kept seeing full auto hitting for 450-550. Granted, it wasn't every attack, but it was quite a few of them.

 

When using HIB, that move normally hits for ~1400 and crits for ~2200. I saw lots of blocked attacks hitting for ~900.

 

Grav round on the other hand is immune to blocks and it hits for ~1400 and crits for ~2200. Every time I used it it would hit for somewhere around those numbers, never seeing a block. And of course, demolition round is the same.

 

And for those of you that aren't aware, you can tell when your attack is blocked because the damage number is tiny. So the numbers of full auto and HIB weren't low because of the enemy using a damage reduction ability, it was because of actual blocks.

 

In my opinion, all ranged special attacks should be immune to blocks because when fighting enemies that can block, it makes certain moves very weak. The mechanic of enemies blocking ranged special attacks is also what makes a gunslinger/sniper fairly weak if playing the non dot based spec because their attacks are not tech attacks. (one of the main reasons I quit my gunslinger and made a commando)

 

Granted mine is just for the standard Strong/Elite/PVP enemy. You start talking Heroics/Flashpoints etc it all goes out the window.

[genesiser]

So in other words, because you found mobs that your standard rotation are weaker on, a fundamental part of the defense game should be nerfed so you get full DPS?

 

I'm not in the "everything should get hit the same way" club, honestly.

 

It doesn't just "hurt my standard rotation" it almost destroys my rotation and turns me into a grav round, demolition shot spammer because it brings more dps to the table. Like I said before, gunslinger marksmen deal with the same problem because all their attacks are physical based and it's what makes them extremely weak when dealing with these type of enemies. The only class that doesn't get effected with the current system is sage/sorcs and the funny part is, their moves hit for pretty much the same as the gunslinger and commando.

 

Instead of allowing enemies to block ranged physical type special attacks, just give ranged special attacks a 5% miss/resist chance for even level mobs and then an extra 5% for each level the enemy is. You say it would break a fundamental part of the defense game and I ask you, do tanks have problems fighting sorcs/sages? No they don't because their high armor provides damage mitigation to tech attacks and they have many ways to control the fight.

 

Why should physical based special ranged attacks have to deal with armor mitigation, shield chance, and evasion chance when tech based ranged attacks only deal with mitigation when tech attacks and physical based ranged attacks deal the same damage?