PvP Gear changes in 1.2 , let me get this straight...

[Subatomix]

Guys, the article the OP cites DOES NOT MENTION nerfing pvp gear. It's mainly a post about changes to BioChem.

 

They do mention "we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear."

 

That does not necessarily mean a nerf. It could, for all we know, mean putting some better lvl 40 pvp gear sets (or any < pvp 50 gear w/ expertise) out there. More likely, they're just going to change expertise mechanics / values.

 

Read it yourself.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

Geez.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Subatomix

[diogolp]

The arguements being used to try to stop the changes all seem to hinge on the fact that the people with the best gear had to spend time to get it. OK well then if it took you 60 hours of game play to get that then I, as a new 50, should be able to get that same gear in 60 hours (give or take) right? Oh but there is a problem I have to fight in low level gear against better equipped opponents so instead of taking 60 hours it might take me 100 or 150 hours. Well now I've put in 2 or 3 times the amount of time you did to get the same gear so how is that fair? I put in a LOT more effort than you to get the gear by your own arguements shouldn't I now actually have better gear than you?

 

PvP is NOT about fighting with no chance nor even with even chances its about it being FAIR to all players who want to participate. If I, as a new 50, want to go up against highly geared players I want it to be MY choice not something that I HAVE to do because of the game mechanics. The current system puts in a barrier that can effectively STOP progress of the new 50 PvP player. How is that GOOD for the game?

 

 

Then the solution is a better match making system, NOT a nerf to gear that is already borderline.

 

PVE gear is currently easier to get, and in many cases better than PVP gear for PVP.

[XParoleX]

This is not just a PVP game. Order to get better gear you may want to get gear from PVE activities. So according to logic this is mainly learn to play issue.

 

Dude I always see you posting the same crap "This isn't a PVP game" guess what it has PVP in it so leave this discussion to the Big boys and go back to questing!!!

[burningcurse]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

Essentially half way though the post it is stated that pvp gear will be reduced in effectiveness to reduce the gap between incoming 50 pvpers and current 50 pvpers with some amount of gear.

 

Now let me get this straight...

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

Time and effort rewards PVE players with gear. This gear sets them from the rest of the community in terms of their effectiveness in handling PVE environments.

 

This same effort rewards PVP players. The time and effort you put in to the game should yield moderate results. Parallel and equal to the rewards that a PVE player gets for their perseverance.

 

If PvP gear is , well for lack of a better word "standardized" to a certain extent. What is there to differentiate a player who puts in time and effort in order to be more effective than general community at what he or she enjoys, which is success to a certain extent in a pvp environment.

 

Before you start flaming me, declaring that I am an elitist, I am only valor rank 36. And I am not severely geared, I am currently in a mix of centurion/champion gear with many, many holes in it. I am not trying to declare that people with gear should dominate those without it. But I think that degrading those who have put time and effort into obtaining their gear should not be penalized for trying to do well.

 

@OP, I agree with most of these sentiments

 

@ the new level 50s/to the new 50s with the upcoming changes to champion bags, dropping more comms, you will be able to buy your gear just put in the effort to do your dailies! If you can't even accomplish a daily quest then you don't deserve a chance.

[netskink]

You know how many matches of Huttball I've played that were determined by one or fewer goals?

 

Four.

 

Out of hundreds, only FOUR of my Huttball matches have been played to completion in a competitive, gut-wrenching, exciting manner. And let me tell you, I have NEVER had more fun (Even though I'm 2-2 in those matches) in PvP. Every pass, every kill, every score felt meaningful, and for a brief moment they showed exactly how fun this concept they designed can be if it is fair and competitive.

 

 

 

I'm one of the ones who stay. I guess I am dumb. I really hate it when as soon as huttball starts we get a quitter, not to mention when it just gets worse as time progresses.

 

I enjoy cooperative team based play. My favorite warzone is the one with the three towers. My favorite matches are when the east and west are capped by both sides and the game rages the entire match as both sides struggle to cap the middle. I enjoy it when people call out strategy and people respond with smart comments rather than smack talk. "yo, there is a healer and sniper on the ledge getting the expertise buffs, someone stop that" and you get a response like "on it" rather than "**** noob".

 

Sadly that happens about 1/10 games.

[Anthiel]

Quit complaining nerd, its not that serious. With skill, blues with endurance more can beat purps with no skill 9/10. It's high time the forums start being used for constructive criticism and not lol girls ************.

 

whatta stupid **** thanks for adding to the discussion

[Sookster]

forcing pvpers to pve. It's Wow all over again.

 

Failed at reading the notes.

[Kryptorchid]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

Essentially half way though the post it is stated that pvp gear will be reduced in effectiveness to reduce the gap between incoming 50 pvpers and current 50 pvpers with some amount of gear.

 

This is wrong! Why can't people read? This is exactly what the dev wrote:

 

"we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear."

 

Read those bolded words. Gear. Related. Power. Difference. In other words, they think fresh 50s are not powerful enough in PvP relative to full gear. This does not imply PvP gear will be reduced in effectiveness. It implies that there will be less of a stat difference between the "starter 50" PvP set and the best PvP set.

 

This also does not imply PvE gear will become "better" for PvP than it is now.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[Terrorshard]

This is wrong! Why can't people read? This is exactly what the dev wrote:

 

"we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear."

 

Read those bolded words. Gear. Related. Power. Difference. In other words, they think fresh 50s are not powerful enough in PvP relative to full gear. This does not imply PvP gear will be reduced in effectiveness. It implies that there will be less of a stat difference between the "starter 50" PvP set and the best PvP set.

 

This also does not imply PvE gear will become "better" for PvP than it is now.

 

This is accurate. Not sure how anybody got anything different from this in their heads.

 

The different sides of the pvp stat point are very much the difference between the way my brother and I are competitive.

 

Completely unrelated in something else my opponent will get really unlucky in something and I'll say something like I don't want to win that way. He always comes back with his, I'll win in any dirty sleazy way necessary. I think that is exactly how the community is divided.

[Daqu]

They didn't say they are nerfing pvp gear. They said they are trying to close the gap between newly dinged 50s and people in full battlemaster gear.

 

Atm when you ding level 50, the easiest pvp gear to get is champion gear (not the centurion). In the latest patch notes 1.1.2 they said they are changing the bag drops so more commendations drop i.e. newly dinged 50s with get centurion gear faster with more commendations from bags (less luck in getting your first set of pvp gear) while they will also decrease the drop rate of champion gear.

 

What this means basically is that Centurion gear will be first set many pvpers get now, while getting some random pieces of champion. Then when they get rank 60, they will be opening BM bags and getting champ commendations so will be able to finish off that set, while getting random BM pieces.

 

The system at the moment is flawed in that centurion gear is actually harder to get than champion pieces. This patch looks like it will rectify that, allowing new 50s to get their first pvp set faster without the random factor.

 

Quoted for truth. Removed snide comment about reading comprehension.

[HokieKarma]

quick question about updates

 

Have they stated that pulling ball carriers into your spawn to kill them is against rules or have they deemed it a function of the game?

[lordniah]

All they need to do is bolster gear in the level 50 bracket. If someone comes in with elite pve gear, it gets bolstered down. If someone comes in with green level 10 gear on their level 50, it gets bolstered up. This makes gear a total non factor. Then they can give some pve sets for pvp players so they can switch to raiding, but not as good as the best raid stuff since it is easier to grind for good gear in pvp than in pve.

[Omnomm]

As the dev post was primarily about crafting, I think it hinted more at the possibility of crafted PVP starter gear. ALso supported by the fact that they took out the blue lvl 50 stuff from the vendors recently. I think we'll get the blue PVP stuff to craft which will also bolster the server economy as he talked about.

[RycheMykola]

As the dev post was primarily about crafting, I think it hinted more at the possibility of crafted PVP starter gear. ALso supported by the fact that they took out the blue lvl 50 stuff from the vendors recently. I think we'll get the blue PVP stuff to craft which will also bolster the server economy as he talked about.

 

^ Crossing my fingers!

[Gwal]

2 Points.

 

A) I pvp for fun not carrots(gear/rewards)

 

B) T0 PvP'ers are being forced into T3 PvP encounters, throw that into your progression comparison.

[Tenthletter]

The exact statement was this :

 

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

It does mention that the "power difference" will be reduced. That they feel the difference is "too high".

 

Like I stated before, their is a "power difference" in new PVE player's effectiveness and those with gear. Why shouldn't their be a "power difference" for the parallel PVP environment.

 

It was already explained to you by Dannythefool, here let me repost it so you actually read it this time.

 

In PVE though, that player can choose to gear up by doing some tier 1 PVE stuff and get tier 1 PVE gear, which will be enough to do some tier 2 PVE stuff and get tier 2 gear, which will be enough to do some tier 3 PVE stuff and get tier 3 gear and so on. At no point does he have to go into tier 3 with tier 0 PVE equipment and stay there for a month before he can actually hope to take down a boss.

 

Also, no where in Georg's post does it say that existing PVP gear is being nerfed. It says that the gap between geared 50s and new 50's will be shortened, making for better competition and lowering the barrier for entry into level 50 PVP.

 

All they need to do is put the level 50 Blue set back in the game, which was already in at launch and was for some reason removed. Upping Centurion Comm drops works too, but just putting the blue set back in is an easier fix.

 

The thing that you fail to understand OP is that PVP is good for the longevity of a game. If someone's first experience with PVP is getting smashed by a geared 50 and being told to 'suck it up' for two weeks or more, especially after just leaving the competitive 1-49 bracket, chances are very good that the new player will either stop PVPing altogether, or simply roll an alt and play 1-49 again. If it's a more casual player (which this game is targeted towards) they will likely just stop completely.

 

This increases level 50 queue times further and will eventually make level 50 PVP a ghosttown, as people are bound to cancel their subscriptions over time and there will be little influx of new level 50s to replace them.

 

Do people think before posting garbage like this? I swear it's like you want this game to fail.

[LaManoNera]

because pvp is more about competition than progression.

 

The topic ended here.

[EndgameTOR]

because pvp is more about competition than progression.

 

Spread the good word! All of the men, women and children must hear the truth!

[aquamonkey]

PVP = Player vs Player not Gear vs Gear which is what this game currently is, a highly skilled player with no gear cannot kill and incompetent player that has full gear simple as that the gear is too powerful atm.

[Goodtimez]

New guy, one of the founders, here is how PVP works for me. I play an IA sniper. I am 50, have been for a little while, 31 valor, orange gear with blue and purple mods. I now have a few PVP items, 186 expertise. I enter into an already started huttball match, that has 3 of the other team members staying in our goal, 1 tank, 1 dps and 1 healer. They **** everyone that steps out of our spawn. We try to kill them, ball carrier ( who is just holding the ball ) throws to us and kills us instantly. Repeat this for 5 minutes. Those guys are geared and just farming.......Why on earth would I stay in the match and try PVP when this happens on a regular basis. I do over and over again, do a little over 100k damage, get 3 medals, and 58 tokens................that I convert 3 to 1..........no reason I would "grind" over and over just to be slaughtered.

 

Half the PVP matches are fun I love a struggle, a close game. I hate being rolled over and over by some super geared 500 + expertise guys not even trying to play the game. Hence the reason I switch over and pvp with an alt. Its a blast from 10 to 49.

 

From my view I welcome any change that allows me to gear up faster, or takes away the advantage geared 50's have. Expertise is the problem, you can say tactics, player skills anything you want, when your team is normal 50's with normal gear and the other side geared and expertised out the butt it does not matter what tactics you use.

[Abiza]

quick question about updates

 

Have they stated that pulling ball carriers into your spawn to kill them is against rules or have they deemed it a function of the game?

 

A mod responded to an in-game ticket last week or so saying that it was perfectly legal gameplay.

[Torathin]

When playing PVE, you can start at lower difficulty and work your way up by winning those encounters. You try and succeed. This is fun.

 

In PVP you cannot win. You are just dog food for the geared PVPers. Until eventually you can do the same to other newbies. This is not fun.

1. The PVP model will discourage new people from PVPing.
   
2. The PVP model will cause seasoned PVPers to not have fun.
   As an example, would someone in top end PVE gear go back to the newbie planet and lay waste to level 4 npcs? Why not? Cause it's not fun.
   

 

Why not have a gear progression of:

- entry level gear that is 90% effective

- reasonably easy to grind gear that is 95% effective

- advanced gear that requires a significant grind to be 100% effective.

 

A 10% gear on top of the experience advantage should be all you need to dominate ungeared nubies.

[dtongwa]

TL;DR: (actually, too much crying, didn't read, or TMQQ; DR): "I have too much time to play this game, but I'm not very good at pvp, and it is going to make me seriously [sadface] if I can no longer gear stomp better players who don't play swtor 24/7."

 

Please don't compare pve (playing versus an AI) to pvp. The AI doesn't need to be treated fairly in a game. Other players do.

[Abiza]

TL;DR: (actually, too much crying, didn't read, or TMQQ; DR): "I have too much time to play this game, but I'm not very good at pvp, and it is going to make me seriously [sadface] if I can no longer gear stomp better players who don't play swtor 24/7."

 

Please don't compare pve (playing versus an AI) to pvp. The AI doesn't need to be treated fairly in a game. Other players do.

 

This isn't a FPS, this is a mmo. Whether it disagrees with your personal opinion of how PvP should be or not, the game design itself is inherently a gear progression one. The context of your comparison doesn't amount to anything in the mmo world.

[MinguesDew]

When playing PVE, you can start at lower difficulty and work your way up by winning those encounters. You try and succeed. This is fun.

 

In PVP you cannot win. You are just dog food for the geared PVPers. Until eventually you can do the same to other newbies. This is not fun.

1. The PVP model will discourage new people from PVPing.
   
2. The PVP model will cause seasoned PVPers to not have fun.
   As an example, would someone in top end PVE gear go back to the newbie planet and lay waste to level 4 npcs? Why not? Cause it's not fun.
   

 

Why not have a gear progression of:

- entry level gear that is 90% effective

- reasonably easy to grind gear that is 95% effective

- advanced gear that requires a significant grind to be 100% effective.

 

A 10% gear on top of the experience advantage should be all you need to dominate ungeared nubies.

Pretty much this. I'm glad they are addressing this sooner rather than later. I played some rift and they did the opposite (added another tier of even better pvp gear) and it made the gap really absurd. Class was irrelevant in pvp you just had to know your place on the gear chain and laugh while you two shot someone right before someone else two shot you.