Official: Over 1.7 million active subs, 2 + mil sold

[daemian]

To further refine my point, because my last was rushed...

 

I simply refuse to obsess over sub numbers. That's for those execs to do. My only concern is whether I enjoy the product and if I trust the word of the people behind it. So long as the answer to both is YES I'm going to enjoy my game, regardless of how the sub numbers fluctuate.

 

And again, games that are quite flawed still survive for years. Even in the worst case scenario I know that the likely hood of TOR vanishing or not being expanded upon is almost nil.

 

Indeed. And it ultimately doesn't matter how many subs TOR retains, there will always be people who say it has 'failed'. They're already saying it, and they will never stop.

[zrinking]

The only way this game will ever shut down is if they lose the rights to the "Star Wars" online franchise.

 

And if that happens it will be because a new Star Wars MMO is on the way.

[ptwonline]

To further refine my point, because my last was rushed...

 

I simply refuse to obsess over sub numbers. That's for those execs to do. My only concern is whether I enjoy the product and if I trust the word of the people behind it. So long as the answer to both is YES I'm going to enjoy my game, regardless of how the sub numbers fluctuate.

 

And again, games that are quite flawed still survive for years. Even in the worst case scenario I know that the likely hood of TOR vanishing or not being expanded upon is almost nil.

 

And it's not like that's wishful thinking on my part. It's been the example of almost every MMO ever released. Very few truly die and even those that do survive for a very long time.

 

 

Personally I don't really worry about actual sub numbers as long as they remain high enough to guarantee good re-investment rates from the developer/publisher to keep improving and expanding the game and with a certain level of quality.

 

IOW, if SWTOR has 5 million subs...great! If they have 2 million subs...great! If they have 1 million subs...great! If they have 100,000 subs...um, hmm.

[sikandar]

Indeed. And it ultimately doesn't matter how many subs TOR retains, there will always be people who say it has 'failed'. They're already saying it, and they will never stop.

 

I agree. I say WoW failed...to entertain me more than their included month of gametime. Did I continue to subscribe to grief people? Nope. I refused to continue paying for what I did not enjoy.

[daemian]

I agree. I say WoW failed...to entertain me more than their included month of gametime. Did I continue to subscribe to grief people? Nope. I refused to continue paying for what I did not enjoy.

 

Conversely, right now I'm paying for another subscription I'm not enjoying at all... not because I don't like it but because I keep playing TOR.

Edited February 2, 2012 by daemian

[Mikkeos]

Remember that the published data is from dec. 31st ... within the 30 days free of all the preorder, first day and xmas starters.

[zrinking]

Indeed. And it ultimately doesn't matter how many subs TOR retains, there will always be people who say it has 'failed'. They're already saying it, and they will never stop.

 

They are invested in its failure.

[Jimer_Lins]

Remember that the published data is from dec. 31st ... within the 30 days free of all the preorder, first day and xmas starters.

 

Wrong. The published financial data is from the 31st (non-GAAP revenues, quarterly profits, etc). The subscription numbers were current, at least as of the earnings conference call yesterday.

[Drewser]

Remember that the published data is from dec. 31st ... within the 30 days free of all the preorder, first day and xmas starters.

 

No, it isn't as has been covered dozens of times in this thread.

[SeloDaoC]

I think its to early to say. Come back after 3 months. Most are giving it a chance for another couple of months, some are bored, but dont want to admit it.

 

Or when another MMO comes around

Edited February 2, 2012 by SeloDaoC

[Jimer_Lins]

I slept in today, but after getting up a bit ago, making my coffee, and sitting down at the PC, I went to check the market. Turns out it looks like I was right.

 

EA is at 19.86 with less than an hour left of trading to go, even beating out a broader down market. I said it'd finish between 19 and 20. It wasn't as volatile as I expected, but that's good, frankly.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Jimer_Lins

[Wicari]

I'm a BIG fan of this game, but even I don't believe in the 1.7mil active subscribers out of 2mil , UNLESS that number was taken before the free month was over, otherwise, that nearly a 100% retention rate (because not everyone who gets the game actually installs, plays and subscribes), which is definantely never going to happen with any MMO.

 

New Math? Old Math says that's 85%

[Scar]

I slept in today, but after getting up a bit ago, making my coffee, and sitting down at the PC, I went to check the market. Turns out it looks like I was right.

 

EA is at 19.86 with less than an hour left of trading to go, even beating out a broader down market. I said it'd finish between 19 and 20. It wasn't as volatile as I expected, but that's good, frankly.

 

Just FYI, if you change post to edit in the url (a la "#edit2416210" from "#post2416210"), it will take you directly to the post.

[Jimer_Lins]

Just FYI, if you change post to edit in the url (a la "#edit2416210" from "#post2416210"), it will take you directly to the post.

 

You, sir- yes, you. You're awesome. Thanks for the tip.

[Jrzez]

First of all WoW is a different situation because Blizzard has become a lazy developer. There's no excuse for the insane amount of money that game has been making them that they couldn't get larger content out faster. During peak subs, they also got into the habit of recycling old content and assets (gear, weapons, models, etc). This is terrible practice, and only blizzard can get away with it, though apparently people are getting fed up with it. Not to mention that blizzard is the slowest developer out there. And they sling that "quality, when it's done" stuff around, but anyone who played their games know they suffer from numerous bugs, and have sub-par quality assets to them (visuals for example). There's a reason that Kotick had to step in there and clean house to get them on a some what more respectable development cycle. Fans are finally turning against them, and that's why they're in panic mode, cutting off dead wood, like they have with the Diablo, SC2, and Titan teams. I hate to throw the term around, but "lazy developer" should be blizzard's trademark, not "soon". They've exploited their fans long enough.

 

As Trion showed how successful they were getting over 3.5 million subs at a time, it's because they cared. They put in larger than usual content patches, and in much much faster fashion. They also actually cared about their userbase. This is what helped them get established so fast which is out of the norm for a "new" developer.

 

BW needs to do what Trion did. If they can pull that off, not only would I be happier, but I'd be impressed, considering how SWTOR ended up being a bit of a let down considering the state it launched in for a high-budget MMO from a big name dev like BioWare and publisher, EA. They know they need to rapidly fix these issues, and come out smelling like a rose, because we all know the real threat to WoW, and of course SWTOR, is not much further down the road. And the amount of hype for it in the media and the communities is staggering.

 

The media and fans know the issues with this game, and we're giving BW the benefit of the doubt, for now. But the levels of mockery has been rising and fast in communities, and in the media (lack of content, too much downtime, bugs/glitches, etc).

 

Hopefully this gets BW moving, and if not, maybe EA will step in and crack the whip if need be like daddy Kotick did on blizzard.

[SwampHobbit]

This game is a great alternative to the end game grind that LOTRO is experiencing right now. I love both games, but it's nice to have an alternative. This game here, to borrow from Sorano.. it's veery nice.

[SwampHobbit]

EA will step in and crack the whip...

 

cracking the whip.... kinky

[Emeda]

OK I dont know how to post from the last thread but on one of the last pagers it had a Q&A about how many people were needed to break even.

 

It was someone saying they needed 500,000 customers to break even and then he said if they had a million they would make a min profit.

 

So 500,000x15 = 7.5 million dollars a month and thats min profit?

 

Looks like they are just making us covers to why they cant afford to add new content in the future because they are barely making a profit.

[wifeaggro]

New Math? Old Math says that's 85%

 

That is 15% more retention then i would have speculated

[Jimer_Lins]

OK I dont know how to post from the last thread but on one of the last pagers it had a Q&A about how many people were needed to break even.

 

It was someone saying they needed 500,000 customers to break even and then he said if they had a million they would make a min profit.

 

So 500,000x15 = 7.5 million dollars a month and thats min profit?

 

Looks like they are just making us covers to why they cant afford to add new content in the future because they are barely making a profit.

 

The game doesn't run itself for free. And ongoing support, development, patches, content creation and administration isn't free either.

 

Breaking even just means recouping their investment. After that, they still have to maintain profitability, which means showing revenues that are more than just a little bit over break-even.

[SoupyNuggs]

OK I dont know how to post from the last thread but on one of the last pagers it had a Q&A about how many people were needed to break even.

 

It was someone saying they needed 500,000 customers to break even and then he said if they had a million they would make a min profit.

 

So 500,000x15 = 7.5 million dollars a month and thats min profit?

 

Looks like they are just making us covers to why they cant afford to add new content in the future because they are barely making a profit.

 

Gross revenue != Net PTI

 

Basic stuff here.

[Scar]

You, sir- yes, you. You're awesome. Thanks for the tip.

 

If only more people would realize that, what a better world it would be (for me).

[Emeda]

The game doesn't run itself for free. And ongoing support, development, patches, content creation and administration isn't free either.

 

Breaking even just means recouping their investment. After that, they still have to maintain profitability, which means showing revenues that are more than just a little bit over break-even.

 

Still breaking even means that you are paying for everything you need so you dont lose any money but you dont make any money more than to cover bills. This includes research and developement of new content.

 

Making 7.5 million dollars more is all profit from what I can see. It costs 7.5 million to pay the bills, we bring in 15 million thats double of what they need to break even. That is not a min gain of 7.5 million a month.

[Jimer_Lins]

Still breaking even means that you are paying for everything you need so you dont lose any money but you dont make any money more than to cover bills. This includes research and developement of new content.

 

Making 7.5 million dollars more is all profit from what I can see. It costs 7.5 million to pay the bills, we bring in 15 million thats double of what they need to break even. That is not a min gain of 7.5 million a month.

 

If you break even on a hot-dog stand, you don't need a ton of profit over that "break-even" point to call yourself profitable.

 

If you break even on a game that cost as much as SWTOR did and only maintain that break-even, or show a minor profit- you're not going to be considered profitable because you're spending MASSIVE amounts of resources, including the big one: time, to get... what you put in.

 

Profitability for something on the scale of SWTOR is not the same as profitability for your paper route. No one will be impressed if SWTOR makes a few million dollars per year after expenses and costs.

 

All that said, I'm totally confident in SWTOR's ability to deliver major profits as part of EA's larger portfolio.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Jimer_Lins

[wifeaggro]

First of all WoW is a different situation because Blizzard has become a lazy developer. There's no excuse for the insane amount of money that game has been making them that they couldn't get larger content out faster. During peak subs, they also got into the habit of recycling old content and assets (gear, weapons, models, etc). This is terrible practice, and only blizzard can get away with it, though apparently people are getting fed up with it. Not to mention that blizzard is the slowest developer out there. And they sling that "quality, when it's done" stuff around, but anyone who played their games know they suffer from numerous bugs, and have sub-par quality assets to them (visuals for example). There's a reason that Kotick had to step in there and clean house to get them on a some what more respectable development cycle. Fans are finally turning against them, and that's why they're in panic mode, cutting off dead wood, like they have with the Diablo, SC2, and Titan teams. I hate to throw the term around, but "lazy developer" should be blizzard's trademark, not "soon". They've exploited their fans long enough.

 

As Trion showed how successful they were getting over 3.5 million subs at a time, it's because they cared. They put in larger than usual content patches, and in much much faster fashion. They also actually cared about their userbase. This is what helped them get established so fast which is out of the norm for a "new" developer.

 

BW needs to do what Trion did. If they can pull that off, not only would I be happier, but I'd be impressed, considering how SWTOR ended up being a bit of a let down considering the state it launched in for a high-budget MMO from a big name dev like BioWare and publisher, EA. They know they need to rapidly fix these issues, and come out smelling like a rose, because we all know the real threat to WoW, and of course SWTOR, is not much further down the road. And the amount of hype for it in the media and the communities is staggering.

 

The media and fans know the issues with this game, and we're giving BW the benefit of the doubt, for now. But the levels of mockery has been rising and fast in communities, and in the media (lack of content, too much downtime, bugs/glitches, etc).

 

Hopefully this gets BW moving, and if not, maybe EA will step in and crack the whip if need be like daddy Kotick did on blizzard.

 

Many people underestimate trion. There is a reason why that studio has some of the most talented and creative people in the industry. It's because they dont answer to anyone but the player's. rift is hands down the best MMO released in the last 7 years. Wallstreet is crazy for these guys to go public. they just got shot in the rear wwith a huge lump of money to produce new content for rift and Devolp a new engine for liscensing.

 

My guess 2012 and 2013 will be a battle between Trion and BW for the top tier Sub based MMO. and as i see it Trion has far less restrictions . People calll rift a fail MMO yet its growing and has less churn then WOW does currently. people fail to relalize that Trion gets 100% of the subscriptions .they have no liscense and everything they do is in house.The publisher got the Box sales and thats it.

Edited February 2, 2012 by wifeaggro