So the newly 50's expect to be treated like royalty because?

[Tooswifty]

As said in another thread, this is great news for real PVPers. PVP is, and always should be, about skill first.

 

Yup, gonna force real pvpers to do raids to get gear to keep up with the pvers.

 

Great news.

[Trujan]

Na, just give us blue 50 pvp gear (entry expert.), and crafted gear that's comparable to champ gear.

 

No grinding required *shock*.

 

All the kiddies who near gear progression can still try and get BM gear, whilst the rest of enjoy PVP that isn't so.... gear dependent?

 

/signed

[Jarfunkz]

You still dont get it.

 

I can put on my rakata gear, go into a warzone and own BM geared. Now the up coming patch is going to make that gap bigger. Why grind to BM when i can raid and get better gear.

 

This is like the xbox 360..........

 

The warzones I'm in, I see maybe 1 or 2 new 50s. They should figure out how to run with the group and not attacking solo.

 

As to barely scratching a BM, I can and will call ******** on that.

 

I can believe it... because some players still do not use stims, still do not use buffs, still do not use adrenals, and still do not know how to play well...

 

If you come unprepared, don't expect success.

[Vis-Tecum]

As said in another thread, this is great news for real PVPers. PVP is, and always should be, about skill first.

 

I would agree for pvp in any game other than a rpg. in a rpg it should be skill and progression. everyother pvp / sport out there is for people who play based on skill only rpgs are about progression. if its a good rpg there will allways be some gear/ability/rank to strive to and yes they will give you some edge over someone without

 

there are plenty of your "skill" based pvp games out there, leave rpgs alone.

 

[this in no way implies that rpgs dont take skill or that gear only should make you better, like I said its both]

[AesirUesugi]

honestly, they should make centurion gear more broadly available, that way fresh 50s have some expertise to get started with.

what they definitely shouldnt do is touch the BM or Champion set ... they already are inferior to some PvE sets ...

 

My thoughts exactly.

[MightyHalo]

Balance the freaking classes then. This dumbed down crap is a joke. I have been willing to work through the bugs and picking a gimped class hoping it will get better, but this kind of garbage will be my ticket out of here.

 

My main focus is PVP in this game, and it looks like that is going to ****.

[MightyHalo]

How about you merge the servers, get some more balance and you can do gear checks and match the gimps up together??

 

Idiots.

[Asnine]

Do you know what level 50s do in pve when they hit 50? They do regular mode 50 dungeons, dailies, get crafted gear and do early hardmode FPs. They match the gear they have with the difficulty of the flashpoint.

 

Do you know what level 50s do in pvp when they hit 50? They have NO CHOICE but to go up against BM players because the only way to get pvp gear is by being stomped over and over and over. Your logic would make sense if there was a matchmaker based on your expertise gear- but there isn't.

 

 

This would be a more accurate way of saying it. PvErs- the moment you hit 50, you can do nothing but nightmare modes of operations until you get your gear. That seem fair? Well, that's how the pvp system works right now.

 

But rejoice! They're nerfing BM/Champ loot drops, so that gap will be even harder to bypass!

 

Well said.

 

PvE != PvP, carebears.

 

 

But I am curious where you got this nerfing of BM/Champ loot drops?

[Jebi]

I would agree for pvp in any game other than a rpg. in a rpg it should be skill and progression. everyother pvp / sport out there is for people who play based on skill only rpgs are about progression. if its a good rpg there will allways be some gear/ability/rank to strive to and yes they will give you some edge over someone without

 

there are plenty of your "skill" based pvp games out there, leave rpgs alone.

 

[this in no way implies that rpgs dont take skill or that gear only should make you better, like I said its both]

 

Sounds to me like you've only played MMO's that have been designed for PVE, and then have had PVP tacked on as an afterthought.

 

MMO's PVP originally used to be about skill in PVP. They used to quite often required dodging, strafing, jumping, reflexes etc.. just like an FPS. Gear also helped, as did level, but the margins were quite small. They also required tactics, strategy teamwork, politics, world knowledge, resource management, blah blah blah...

 

Basically they had some of the most complex and involved PVP around.

 

Then along came WOW, and everything got turned around - dumbed down simpleton PVP, gear grinds, level > skill, instances, minigames, point grinding etc...

 

So no, how about we take the MMO PVP trainingwheels off again and start making PVP in MMO's actually massively multiplayer again, and the PVP actually be player vs player... instead of, gear vs gear or battle of the grind.

 

I have a feeling GW2 is going to be massive. People are finally starting to wake-up to this rehashed gear grind nonsense.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Jebi

[aeterno]

Funny thing is PvP gear is atm actually the ticket into starter mode raiding cos champion pieces are just thrown at you.

 

Tionese? Please. You get geared to start grinding operations for columni pieces much faster and easier if you pvp than if you grind flashpoints.

[Daex]

Battlemaster here, have to say I have no problem at all with gap being lowered. Really, nothing better for PvP in this game than more people playing it. Means they will put more resources into PvP and it will become better.

[Abanoth]

I got my ***-handed to me because of poorly implemented PvP stats and had to mindlessly grind/farm randoms for over a month---everyone else should go through the same process too!

 

There is a sense of entitlement here, but it's not at the noobs.

[Amiracle]

Maybe its the solution to all the pvp'rs who are exploiting and win trading their way to free pvp gear.

 

But hey, let all the new under geared players in with all the exploiters/cheats so they can get wiped repeatedly.

 

Wont that be a great experience for them?

 

So great they they will just not pvp and you will be wondering why pvp died.

[Safgril]

Maybe its the solution to all the pvp'rs who are exploiting and win trading their way to free pvp gear.

 

But hey, let all the new under geared players in with all the exploiters/cheats so they can get wiped repeatedly.

 

Wont that be a great experience for them?

 

So great they they will just not pvp and you will be wondering why pvp died.

 

oh and dont forget about the servers shrinking...hehe

 

to the ones about Rakata.. it doesnt have Expertise...

 

and about the cent gear... I dont know any 50 who starts out with cent gear... do you?

 

he has to grind to get cent gear.. in the meantime those BM guys will have fun killing that 50 with ease... not because of skill but because he has better gear...

 

oh and dont deny it.

 

orange weapon off the vendor compared to a bm weapon is a HUGE DIFFERENCE... dont tell me BS about a orange weapon barely scratching a BM wearer... not long ago I was one of those players using that orange weapon and now I see the difference with my new weapon.. its NIGHT AND DAY... and overpowered.

[Vis-Tecum]

Sounds to me like you've only played MMO's that have been designed for PVE, and then have had PVP tacked on as an afterthought.

 

MMO's PVP originally used to be about skill in PVP. They used to quite often required dodging, strafing, jumping, reflexes etc.. just like an FPS. Gear also helped, as did level, but the margins were quite small. They also required tactics, strategy teamwork, politics, world knowledge, resource management, blah blah blah...

 

Basically they had some of the most complex and involved PVP around.

 

Then along came WOW, and everything got turned around - dumbed down simpleton PVP, gear grinds, level > skill, instances, minigames, point grinding etc...

 

So no, how about we take the MMO PVP trainingwheels off again and start making PVP in MMO's actually massively multiplayer again, and the PVP actually be player vs player... instead of, gear vs gear or battle of the grind.

 

I have a feeling GW2 is going to be massive. People are finally starting to wake-up to this rehashed gear grind nonsense.

 

guild wars was the only pvp i have played without a real gear progression but it did still have a skills [as in abilities] progression so I dont really understand this whole equal thing. but like I said fps games, sports, fighters all have equal playing. rpgs have diffrent classes diffrent abilities diffrent stregnths and weaknesses for characters individually along with diffrent stats and gear so noone is equal. and then there is the trinity, I think this actually makes it more complex with teamwork tactics and stratagy like you said.

 

the "its just about gear" argument is not looking at the whole picture.

 

also everyone who thinks gear = easy is just wrong because everyone has gear or will have it eventually

[Libertine]

Sounds to me like you've only played MMO's that have been designed for PVE, and then have had PVP tacked on as an afterthought.

 

MMO's PVP originally used to be about skill in PVP. They used to quite often required dodging, strafing, jumping, reflexes etc.. just like an FPS. Gear also helped, as did level, but the margins were quite small. They also required tactics, strategy teamwork, politics, world knowledge, resource management, blah blah blah...

 

last MMO i played where PvP was more about skill the anything else was Ultima Online(played it pre-tramel). it was a completely equal playing field.

 

every other game that was pvp-centric that i have seen(not saying that UO was pvp-centric) has allways had some component that could tip the odds in your favour.

[Hesperdan]

I pvped and was valor capped all the way to 50. I'm a 61 BM now in BM gear 659 expertise. I work hard everyday leading my team to victory and dealing with the multitudes of Sith camping Ilum. If pvp wasn't/isn't for you, then stay out the warzones, don't get an itch and think you're billy bad-@$# at 50. I'll scratch that itch and you right out of the picture.

 

Yöu, Jedi Guardian Tank, Sith Meditation Sphere

 

Yöu Nguyen, now run along you and try again!

[Safgril]

guild wars was the only pvp i have played without a real gear progression but it did still have a skills [as in abilities] progression so I dont really understand this whole equal thing. but like I said fps games, sports, fighters all have equal playing. rpgs have diffrent classes diffrent abilities diffrent stregnths and weaknesses for characters individually along with diffrent stats and gear so noone is equal. and then there is the trinity, I think this actually makes it more complex with teamwork tactics and stratagy like you said.

 

the "its just about gear" argument is not looking at the whole picture.

 

also everyone who thinks gear = easy is just wrong because everyone has gear or will have it eventually

 

PRE CU SWG

PRE TOA DAOC

Shadowbane

 

there you go... MMOs that didnt have a gear grind... you crafted your gear or buy it.. run out and pvp...

 

trust me when i say this.. our guild is well organized at pvp.. we have been doing it a LONG time. I wouldnt say we are the best.. but we do damn good...

 

before we were all in pvp gear.. dressed up in orange colored gear... we were getting wiped and losing bad to Champ to BM geared premades... we are premade too...

 

now that we geared up.. we crush those same premades....

 

this might be great and all... BUT...

 

this isnt a good system to bring in NEW PLAYERS and to RETAIN OLD PLAYERS... it will only chase away somebody...

 

whether they are good at pvp or not... this is what BW/EA doesnt care about... THEY CARE ABOUT $$$$$$$$$$$$

 

and that relies on subs and a good player base...

 

without a player base.. YOU will complain that there is NO PVP... TOO LONG of queues... yada yada...

 

getting the picture yet?

[-Steph-]

This will only encourage PVP... anyone whining about the gap being closed a little aren't playing for a real test of their skills in my opinion. They just want an easy win, and they want to feel 'special' in their full Battlemaster gear. There needs to be a set of gear that can be obtained easier/quicker that at least gives you a step up while you grind for better gear.

 

 

Keeping in mind of course the people who were 50 first... you guys had it insanely easier to obtain that gear when there was no 50 pvp bracket and you didn't have people who vastly out geared you to compete against (not to mention all the Ilum exploiting that went on).

 

I PVP'd while levelling quite a lot and I was usually top three in the charts for my side (won more often then lost), I hit 50 and suddenly its like smashing my head off a brick wall. There is 100% a problem and unless you want to end up with fewer and fewer people to fight against as time goes on you'll welcome the changes. New players shouldn't be punished for coming into the game later.

 

Right now I've given up on even trying to PVP on my 50 Sentinel, I don't feel like having to do tonnes of PVE (or stand around that one bridge in Ilum farming people) to try close the gear gap and at the moment I'm just being stomped on without a chance of doing anything much productive.

 

 

So I've started an alt instead, leveling that in hopes some changes will happen to PVP that won't result in it being a frustrating pointless mess. And surprise surprise despite I'm level 18 being bolstered against level 30-40 players I'm coming top in medals again and I can actually kill something!

[Gwal]

nobody might like to hear it but being better than your neighbor is the driving goal in alot of peoples lives remove it and alot of people will go looking for their vicarious life elsewhere. not saying i am or are not i like the game i like the pvp but if the driving goals are removed

it will deminish participation and the length people will stay with the game

 

Exactly the opposite of reality you've got right there.

 

The old guard/pvp extreme grinders go from one MMO to another anyway. You'll notice them boast about their glory in DaoC/Darkfall/WoW/AoC/WAR/Mortal/RF etc etc. As soon as something new comes out they are going to get it anyway, then decide whether to return to this or not.

 

PvP needs a growing or stable population to remain alive, if new guys/casuals hit 50 then feel like it's pointless to participate in they simply will not participate. You'll see current players leaving and no new players comming in, this is how an MMO dies.

 

Games need to be accessable to retain and gain players. Let me reserve the question in the OP.

 

Why should jobless people that play 40 hours a week be treated like royalty?

Why should you be able to beat me using no skill because I occasionally spend a night at the gym or in the girlfriend rather than WZ grinding until my spine fuses.

 

Sorry mate, I love PvP but I prefer the type of PvP where situation and player skill are the deciding factor. Before Gems+PvP gear in AoC, you would see good level 60's running around topless ganking level 80's then getting ganked themselves by even better level 40's. There was no grind, but there was skill and an arcade like level of fun.

 

 

Everyone had a chance to get screwed, but everyone had a chance to shine, not just the basement heros. I have a job and responsabilities, I wish I was a kid again but that won't make it happen and people like me are the bread and butter of Biowares coffers.

 

I pvped and was valor capped all the way to 50. I'm a 61 BM now in BM gear 659 expertise. I work hard everyday leading my team to victory and dealing with the multitudes of Sith camping Ilum. If pvp wasn't/isn't for you, then stay out the warzones, don't get an itch and think you're billy bad-@$# at 50. I'll scratch that itch and you right out of the picture.

 

Yöu, Jedi Guardian Tank, Sith Meditation Sphere

 

Yöu Nguyen, now run along you and try again!

 

This type of dickery is laughable, so because I have to work 40+ hours a week, look after my home etc I should not be able to play the game I pay just as much for.

 

This is such a "Look at my huge E-peen" post it almost seems you must be trolling. If you want to impress people MMO PvP is not the way to do it.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Gwal

[Trujan]

I'd like to think that BW have seen the fun and good thoughts about the 10-49 wz. Its alot closer, but there still is an advantage, and a deserved one, when someone is of a higher level and in better gear. However, the advantage is not unsurmountable. I challenge anyone to say that the way the 10-49 bracket works at the moment is wrong, balance wise.

Thus they are going to try and address the 'gap' in the 50 bracket. Good on em.

[MightyHalo]

This will only encourage PVP... anyone whining about the gap being closed a little aren't playing for a real test of their skills in my opinion. They just want an easy win, and they want to feel 'special' in their full Battlemaster gear. There needs to be a set of gear that can be obtained easier/quicker that at least gives you a step up while you grind for better gear.

 

 

Keeping in mind of course the people who were 50 first... you guys had it insanely easier to obtain that gear when there was no 50 pvp bracket and you didn't have people who vastly out geared you to compete against (not to mention all the Ilum exploiting that went on).

 

I PVP'd while levelling quite a lot and I was usually top three in the charts for my side (won more often then lost), I hit 50 and suddenly its like smashing my head off a brick wall. There is 100% a problem and unless you want to end up with fewer and fewer people to fight against as time goes on you'll welcome the changes. New players shouldn't be punished for coming into the game later.

 

Right now I've given up on even trying to PVP on my 50 Sentinel, I don't feel like having to do tonnes of PVE (or stand around that one bridge in Ilum farming people) to try close the gear gap and at the moment I'm just being stomped on without a chance of doing anything much productive.

 

 

So I've started an alt instead, leveling that in hopes some changes will happen to PVP that won't result in it being a frustrating pointless mess. And surprise surprise despite I'm level 18 being bolstered against level 30-40 players I'm coming top in medals again and I can actually kill something!

 

You could learn to play. That seems like your biggest problem.

[Vis-Tecum]

PRE CU SWG

PRE TOA DAOC

Shadowbane

 

there you go... MMOs that didnt have a gear grind... you crafted your gear or buy it.. run out and pvp...

 

trust me when i say this.. our guild is well organized at pvp.. we have been doing it a LONG time. I wouldnt say we are the best.. but we do damn good...

 

before we were all in pvp gear.. dressed up in orange colored gear... we were getting wiped and losing bad to Champ to BM geared premades... we are premade too...

 

now that we geared up.. we crush those same premades....

 

this might be great and all... BUT...

 

this isnt a good system to bring in NEW PLAYERS and to RETAIN OLD PLAYERS... it will only chase away somebody...

 

whether they are good at pvp or not... this is what BW/EA doesnt care about... THEY CARE ABOUT $$$$$$$$$$$$

 

and that relies on subs and a good player base...

 

without a player base.. YOU will complain that there is NO PVP... TOO LONG of queues... yada yada...

 

getting the picture yet?

 

your condesending tone aside I was talking about gear being there or not and not how you get it and I never said there wasnt any mmos out there with out it. I do believe swg had gear progression and ways to level your character for an advantage but I could be wrong I didnt play much only rihgt at the begining and only for like a week

 

as to the second part it should encorage people to progress their character when you play a rpg and see someone with that better sword or armor or mount or whatever. yes he is going to stomp you but that should not make you not want to play, it should make you want what he has. so then you play more because thats how you get it.

 

again I just dont get the argument for equal pvp in a rpg [i am not saying the gear gap is fine but I do think the new 50s are complaining way to much it is not that bad]

Edited February 2, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[BDutch]

Do you know what level 50s do in pve when they hit 50? They do regular mode 50 dungeons, dailies, get crafted gear and do early hardmode FPs. They match the gear they have with the difficulty of the flashpoint.

 

Do you know what level 50s do in pvp when they hit 50? They have NO CHOICE but to go up against BM players because the only way to get pvp gear is by being stomped over and over and over. Your logic would make sense if there was a matchmaker based on your expertise gear- but there isn't.

 

 

This would be a more accurate way of saying it. PvErs- the moment you hit 50, you can do nothing but nightmare modes of operations until you get your gear. That seem fair? Well, that's how the pvp system works right now.

 

But rejoice! They're nerfing BM/Champ loot drops, so that gap will be even harder to bypass!

 

Nailed it on the first page.

[Bartes]

I bet most people here never tried to understand what stats are important in pve and pve. They just want easy wins, free gear.

Time for work now, but I made some interesting SS today. People wearing lvl 40-47 GREENS in lvl 50 WZs, not a single Relic on them. Some of them didn't even had implants.

Just OMG, you get those even from quests for god's sake. What the heck they were doing till now? If they were PvEing they should have AT LEAST lvl 50 blue mods in their gear.If it is so hard, do few space dailies to get 150k credits and then go buy few pieces of purple crafted gear I cannot say much more...

I did it, started to PvP seriously when I dinged 50 (well I enjoyed all PvE quests) now I have full champ (like every slot on my char has Champion in the name), 2 weeks after I started to PvP seriously. I do not play 24/7, I have kids and work and other stuff to do besides playing games.

 

Maybe so called "fresh 50s" are upset coz they can't faceroll lvl 10 noobs in WZs anymore? Hard to be on the recieving end? Did you feel sorry for those 10-20s you stomped on while you were lvl 48-49? Do you really think they thought it is enjoyable and balanced?

 

Again, why fresh 50s do not even use stims/adrenals? They are not expensive at all on GTN, you prolly get enough crdits to buy one blue that lasts 120 mins and stays after death even after lost WZ. Wait, you left it in rage coz enemy team scored before yours, right? So you got no medals, no valor, no credits.

 

You deserve to be obliterated with such attitute! Even if/when they nerf Champion/Battlemaster you whiners will still be owned by good players, no gear is gonna help you. I fail to ralise why people are so blind and don't want to put even lil effort into gearing up.

 

never gonna look in this thread and similar ones again tbh