What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Tyranoc]

wow how do i go about pointing out your....... well here goes.

the only way your real life analogy would aply is if we met on the highway to race and i was forced to race you heads up. see in this example you start with BETTER GEAR, thus clearly giving you an advantage that is nearly impossible to overcome. guess what i will do if im told i have to race you? i wont. i'll just leave. just like casuals will if they dont have.... wait for it..... oh ya.... FUN. Just because you are used to the current system doesn't mean it's a good system. at the end of the day it's a video game. if you like it and want it to stay around you should probably hope casuals play it.

 

No... He didnt start with an A5. He had to earn it. Just like in this, no1 starts with champ and BM. They have to earn. Just because you havent earnt it yet doesnt make it unfair. It just means exactly that... YOU HAVENT EARNT IT!

[Sshate]

Because pvp with same class gets boring and i want to play a different class? Edited February 5, 2012 by Sshate

[RobNightfall]

Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

 

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

 

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

 

Easy, the ones that really like PvP will keep PvPing. The rest will return to raiding, where they belong.

[Razot]

the problem with no pvp gear means it becomes about pve progression dictating how good you are in pve from a gear perspective. Don't get me wrong this system is screwey.

 

The problem is that with PVP gear means it becomes about pve progression dictating how PVP gear scales.

 

With this system and non equal gear the PVE side of game will always determine what level the PVP will be and how successful it will become and looking at history the only who has pulled it off is blizzard the rest have failed and i think its fair to say even WoW failed at it as well,I am pretty sure it would have a larger pvp base without it.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Razot

[mandrillagon]

On my server Jekk Jekk Tar there was this guy Harkonen in a guild called One Blood and another guy Nuro who defended him that said levels and gear do not matter (therefore expertise wouldn't matter); it is all about player skill. I was called an idiot for saying levels, gear, and expertise did matter.

 

I am wondering are those people still out there who were claiming levels and gear do not matter therefore level brackets were unnecessary? If so, why are those same people not speaking up like they were before in this thread saying gear doesn't matter.

Edited February 5, 2012 by mandrillagon

[xxdragonragexx]

If people really just want to pvp in a warzone and not progress their character in a MMO, they will just stay at 49 and leave warzones before they end.

You get these benefits:

 

- Best gear which means either the playing field is fair or it favors you.

- More skill points - just like the above

- no more grinding for levels

- no more farming for gear

- Your character is basically at the top.

 

Guess what? A lot of people in World of warcraft quit their twinks when they can no longer progress like get achievements, titles, win/lose ratio and stuff when they have to leave the battlegrounds before the game ends. This basically proves one thing, MMO players want some type of reward even if it is minuscule like a title or win count or even just seeing their side win for playing a battleground. Without a reward, people will just quit.

Edited February 5, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Ganeshori]

44 pages in so im sure someone already posted it and I missed it. But why not set it up like GWII is going to be? They will have three types of pvp, Hot Join, world vs. world vs. world, and tournement pvp. Not sure on tourement pvp, but on W vs. W vs. W...your stats bump up...but you keep yer gear you have on your character. On Hot Join, which would be like our WZs...Your dude jumps to max...lvl 80, all stats are bumped up...and you get max gear for while yer in it.

 

And it will be popular and played alot...even tho gear has no major role other than evening out everyone. Without looking it up, I'm guessing that tournement pvp will work the same as Hot Join for level, gear, stat boosts.

[Talizzar]

You know ALOT of people would just be happy with a Scoreboard so they can see how they compare to others, Which is why most people PvP in the first place, a Ranking system would be much more accepted and loved than a gear system.

 

What a scoreboard to show everyone how many people they ganked today? No thanks. Scoreboards are for those looking for EPEEN and nothing else. Do you really need to flex your E muscles. Do you really think it impresses anyone?

 

Scoreboards will take low level ganking to new heights.

[ombraa]

Ultima Online PVP was by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO.

Even though you could loot your bodies corpse, the main reason to PVP was notoriety and bragging rights.

 

Agree with you

[Ojaix]

Here is what it teaches us, most of you people complaining about needing a starter set of gear once you hit 50 is because in the 10-49 bracket you dominated and now you're to afraid to be dominated by people that have worked long and hard for what they have.

 

Finally got a sorcerer up to level 10 today and wasn't really shocked at this but the same level 40 seemed to be attracted to me and any other way lower than them like magnets!

 

I get it but if it is about being equal how about a starter set for level 10? I mean it is only fair that those of us with no chance should be equal right? Now I don't believe this for 1 second but to all of you crying and whining, grow a set and jump in there and take your lumps in the 50 bracket!

[NintendoJesus]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

 

I think we should turn levels off too. Cuz 40+ has an unfair advantage vs level 11s.

 

We should turn sprint off too, cuz level 14+ has an advantage over level 11s.

 

Personally for me, I don't want to level at all past 11. I want to be able to compete at level 11 as my class. It's not fair to me that other people have more time to spend questing than I do. Also, sending money to your alt so he may buy nice gear should be outlawed as well.

 

In fact, let's just make this game like rockem sockem robots and give everyone 2 buttons, punch and punch harder.

 

tl;dr Stupid argument is stupid.

[Kohsar]

Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

 

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

 

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

 

GW2.. Soon..

[Manigma]

The only solution I can think of, is that people wear pvp suits, they can only be worn in pvp and no other gear is allowed - you could gain valor, tokens etc to buy the same stat gear but different cosmetic options would unlock.

 

I feel this would address the expertise problem as well as stopping those in pve gear dominating - as well as giving pvpers some reason to gain valor ranks.

[TimothyJForde]

I support skill based PvP not gear based.

I don't have time to get battle master PvP gear right now so when I hit 50 I changed to an alt for PvP. So much more fun! Oh and yes I'm from a FPS/RTS background where we do have progression as well but it's called your own skill and experience.

I would like a TF2 system with gear that changes playing styles slightly and gives new looks but no advantage.

Not that I see it happening any time soon but I can dream.

Edited February 5, 2012 by TimothyJForde

[Keldaur]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

 

I pvp on epics with my vanguard alter on the sub bracket.

 

I faceroll doing more than 300k per game.

 

Profit.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Meluna
rude

[kckkryptonite]

I prefer the 50's brax tbh. In the 1-49 brax on my alts, I find that a lot of players don't know what they're doing (more so than the 50 brax anyways), queue up at level 11 and spam their basic ranged attack, lack a lot of their abilities possibly causing one side to be imbalanced. Pair this with me always being purple-geared, I feel like I'm just n00bstomping in the 1-49. Capping a turret, scoring, or planting a bomb in the 50's brax feels so much more rewarding. People die much slower in the 50's brax and are generally more organized, this means battles last longer and fights are more challenging. 1-49 is EZmode for me, so while I do enjoy stomping every now and again, I'd be lying to myself to say that's where the real pvp is and you'd be lying to yourself to think 1-49 is more balanced.

 

Do the dailies/weeklies, do some HMs to gear up instead of writing long extravagant whine posts. You'll gear up fast enough. You should've saved up 1k/1k + 1 champ bag before 50, you could've had a few pieces right out of the gate. Getting to Valor 60 is a grind, getting champ gear is not - it's really easy; and BM is not much better than champ.

Edited February 5, 2012 by kckkryptonite

[Vincedaddy]

character progression in an mmo? What is this madness?

 

this.......is ...... Sparta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Angaurath]

Remove the PVP gear and you will be complaining about getting rolled by everyone who raids in a few months. Swtor has only been out for 5'ish weeks. A couple of content patches down the road and you would fall over dead when a raider even looks at you.

 

 

The solution is to make expertise a high-end PVE / Raid stat that DOES NOT WORK in PVP. Problem solved.

 

 

If BW can make situational buffs (expertise) for PVP, than they can also make situational buffs for PVE.

 

This boils down to: make raid gear better for raids only . Easy peasy.

[Zlashie]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

+1

 

QFT / QFE

 

Cant stress this enough.

 

Blizzard might be the king with World of warcraft but F.Y.I, Resllience was added as a "bandage" due to the fact that Blizzard failed at coding their game.

 

Cant see a reason why we should have this expertise crap.

 

If you arnt going to remove it atleast give the 50s a bracket were we can ignore the people with it.

 

I usually exit warzones with 4+ pvp geared people, especially if they have a healer. Its just not worth the effort.

 

Also look a tthe big picture. if Bioware looked at World of Warcraft they would know that Blizzards biggest problem have been to balance pvp AND pve with this resillience/expertise thing. It cant be done.

 

-Z

Edited February 5, 2012 by Zlashie

[Blasphemerr]

Arguments that suggest PVP gear need not exist is wasted. Progression is the base business model, and the answer to the question "how do we keep players playing" --you keep giving them stuff to gain. Removing gains from pvp/warzones and the WZs will dry up faster than any FPS game without a weapon progression system. Sure, we all hate it--but we play longer as a result.

 

The better route is to add expertise to existing pvp sets in addition to adding a PVP set for level 30, to gap the presumed difference between 20-40

[Gwal]

And the others that reroll to play in a lowbie bracket aren't good pvpers and are too lazy to grind gear.

 

 

I got hit for 14k on my 50 with 2 bits of champion by a Shadow in full BM.

 

There is nothing good or skilled about being able to focus/stim/cooldown someone dead in 1 hit.

[Gwal]

Arguments that suggest PVP gear need not exist is wasted. Progression is the base business model, and the answer to the question "how do we keep players playing" --you keep giving them stuff to gain. Removing gains from pvp/warzones and the WZs will dry up faster than any FPS game without a weapon progression system. Sure, we all hate it--but we play longer as a result.

 

The better route is to add expertise to existing pvp sets in addition to adding a PVP set for level 30, to gap the presumed difference between 20-40

 

Or you make PvP fun in it's own right.

 

People PvP'ed all the time in AoC before gear, in L2 where all gear was PvE gear and in GW wich gear didnt matter in.

 

You're are assuming the Blizzard/WoW model is the only one.

 

Bioware should have realized you'll never be a market leader by copying a market leader, you need to innovate. Sadly I am now convinced this game is another one that will be considered "dead" by many people inside of a year.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Gwal

[Blasphemerr]

Or you make PvP fun in it's own right.

 

People PvP'ed all the time in AoC before gear, in L2 where all gear was PvE gear and in GW wich gear didnt matter in.

 

You're are assuming the Blizzard/WoW model is the only one.

 

Bioware should have realized you'll never be a market leader by copying a market leader, you need to innovate. Sadly I am now convinced this game is another one that will be considered "dead" by many people inside of a year.

 

Ah well, there's always EverQuest: Next ...They've built their own engine at least.

[Dominemesis]

Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

 

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

 

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

 

There is pvp gear in the 10-49 bracket tho, you get weapons like every ten levels, and full gear at 20 and 40. The difference between this gear and the lvl 50 pvp gear is the graduation of the gear curve. The sub-50 pvp gear is good, but not so good that the advantage provided is insurmountable to those who don't have it. However, the 50 gear is not like that, the advantage the expertise gear provides against someone without is much more steep and vastly more difficult for non-geared players to overcome, so many just don't bother. Add to that the disaster of Ilum and the long queues for Warzones, and pvp at lvl 50 pretty much has nothing recommending it over the lower bracket.

[rzrknight]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

All i read was ... i dont have patience to achieve nothing BW , plz , deliver to me for free right now.