Pyro PVP, What Class Do You Struggle Wth?

[exphryl]

Just curious. Everybody always seems to have that one class or spec they struggle again so figure have some fun and see if there are any trends. And/or help each other beat that class.

 

Personally, I find Mara's the most frustrating to go up again.

 

I've been told keep them snared and I'm fine yet, that works all of 0% of the time. The BM ones on my server is a 50/50 chance for me to win depending on my crits.

 

That and I seem to be horrible at noticing their smash to avoid some 5-7k damage >_<

[Sabbathius]

Pretty much any class where the player knows how to play. That's for me, at least.

 

Poorly played - I stomp them regardless of class. Well played - it's 50/50 at best.

 

Biochem also is a big factor. On some of my chars I have no Biochem, and on some I do. And when I fight people, some have it, some don't. Whoever doesn't have it is at a HUGE disadvantage.

 

My personal feeling about the PT is that the class is very bland and simple. You don't really get anything serious in a way of tools to deal with situations that might come up, not the way some other classes do. I mean, Marauders get mobility and mini-vanish, Assassins get stealth and knockback/down, Sorcerers get a full toolbox, and so on.

 

Powertech - you try to DPS them down before they DPS you down. There's hardly any room for anything fancy. You have a whopping two CCs, not counting Grapple. A few defensive abilities, one on a long-ish cooldown. Come up against someone who has more cooldowns and DPS higher or equal to yours, and you're toast. The class doesn't give you enough tools to outplay your opponent the way some other classes do.

 

That's probably why you are having trouble with Marauders. Their DPS is at least on par with PT, probably higher. And their defensive cooldowns are more, and arguably more effective. Chaining Saber Ward, Obfuscate, Force Cloak and Undying Rage with Cloak of Pain running throughout, plus adding a Force Choke into the mix, it's possible that they can take more damage than a PT can. Without cooldowns, yeah, Maras are toast. But with cooldowns they can be tough as nails. At least well played ones are.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Sowwy]

Well played sents. Tanks are annoying only that actually take a big of work to bring down, i guess Im spoiled.

[Sanzibal]

I'm not 50 yet so maybe the Mara/Sent thing hasn't fully kicked in. But at 35 I'm not sure what that first responder was talking about. Maybe he's a shield tech spec? I'm frankly surprised we aren't being nerfed.

 

So about your question....I get ganged just like any other class and die fast. But when I think about the times I have truly had a chance to go solo in a WZ and lost...strangely enough its been several snipers. I think there was one sentinel in there too. And I think I lost to a few sages. The rest I don't even notice really. They just smoking piles of burned flesh when I'm done.

[BobaFurz]

Every class has a chance to take the PT down like someone already said....good played dual saber classes can be hard, they hit hard and if they have their bubble up its fearsome. Donno how operatives hit after 1.1.1, before they could take you down quick but that counts for every class. Sorcs/Sage if well played are not easy mode, especially when they heal well. Gunners/Mercs are hitting hard from range and of course another Vanguard/PT is a threat. Snipers if they attack you from far and crit hard....well, class seems quiete balanced. Edited February 1, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Mhak]

With 620 expertise there isn't any class I fear in 1v1 duels. To be honest I think as a Pyrotech PT my class is a little unbalanced in that I can really kill anybody in a duel, with 2 exceptions -

 

1 - A good sentinel marauder who pops BC consumables or a pvp buff, and then uses that ability to make him 99% immune to damage when he's at about 5% health. By then a good one can usually have taken me to pretty low, 30-40%, and that 99% immunity to damage can *sometimes* be enough to hold him off just long enough to get me to 20% to use his execute ability. This is not a sure bet for the marauders but it's the best chance they have to kill me, and really the only hope they ever have to beat me in a 1v1. Without that 99% immunity to damage I will always win.

 

2 - A Scoundrel/Operative with all his CDs up. I ran into a BM Operative on my server in Huttball today and he killed me in a 1v1 once, by opening with that hidden strike, stunning me after I got up, after damaging me some more through the debilitate stun he vanished then used the opener on me again. About 5 seconds and he killed me, although I still got him damn low despite all that. Every other time I met him he didn't have 100% of his CDs to blow and I killed him very easily. Without a second opener I will always win.

 

Additionally if my grapple is down and a Sorc or Merc is shooting at me from a ledge or something I can't quickly run up to, say in Huttball or the ledges in center of map in Alderaan, I gotta LoS or die. Grapple is my only saving grace when it comes to casters on ledges, w/o it I'm screwed. Not exactly a fair duel situation but still worth mentioning.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mhak

[BobaFurz]

And how are you doing with healers at your lvl and gear in a 1v1 ?

[Spurgo]

The only real pain are:

 

1- Good Sent/Marauder, but only if the player is really good one (in this case its almost impossible to win)

2- Good Sage/Sorc, in the hand of a Top player with Top equip can dish out a huge damage.

 

 

The only way to beat those is to outdamage em....and its really hardcore!

[shucksy]

Sentinels, impossible to kite due to their spammable and ridiculously long duration snare, I'm basically forced to pop all CDs if they are equally geared, and just hope that they don't have all theirs up. Sometimes I'm really envious of the knockback that mercs get, but then we really would be op lol. Edited February 1, 2012 by shucksy

[Dharagada]

We are strong in 1 vs 1, but I don't think we are the top (that goes to marauders/sentinels that are played well).

 

However the pvp in this game isn't (and shouldn't be) balanced around 1 vs 1, that kind of pvp balance just leads to issues.

 

All classes should be able to contribute (and they do) to meaningful pvp for some that means being strong in 1 vs 1, for others it means different things.

[exphryl]

And how are you doing with healers at your lvl and gear in a 1v1 ?

 

Sitting at 610 Expertise right now.

 

Healers are, in a 1v1 Situation, easy. I find personally I do enough burst and damage to them they don't have time to Damage me and they *have* to keep healing themselves. A stun here an interrupt there, some grappling as the sorc speeds away, it's always going to be a win for me.

 

Again, talking 1v1.

[Morbidar]

Yea I don't really have trouble with sorcs / sages if we engage at the same time. Between the burst and interrupts I look at them actually as fodder.

 

Generally if our get out of stun free card is down an operative / scoundrel who knocks me down out of stealth usually gets me - especially if my biochem heals / shield is down.

 

And it would be a sentinel / marauder with a clue - they have to be gilled in top notch pvp gear (like me) to cut through and slice me up like butter. But more importantly it's those that know to slow me right away so I cannot kite them - those are the ones typically with a clue on how to beat a pyrotech powertech and as such are typically the most difficult.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Morbidar

[Sugneto]

With 620 expertise there isn't any class I fear in 1v1 duels. To be honest I think as a Pyrotech PT my class is a little unbalanced in that I can really kill anybody in a duel, with 2 exceptions -

 

1 - A good sentinel marauder who pops BC consumables or a pvp buff, and then uses that ability to make him 99% immune to damage when he's at about 5% health. By then a good one can usually have taken me to pretty low, 30-40%, and that 99% immunity to damage can *sometimes* be enough to hold him off just long enough to get me to 20% to use his execute ability. This is not a sure bet for the marauders but it's the best chance they have to kill me, and really the only hope they ever have to beat me in a 1v1. Without that 99% immunity to damage I will always win.

 

2 - A Scoundrel/Operative with all his CDs up. I ran into a BM Operative on my server in Huttball today and he killed me in a 1v1 once, by opening with that hidden strike, stunning me after I got up, after damaging me some more through the debilitate stun he vanished then used the opener on me again. About 5 seconds and he killed me, although I still got him damn low despite all that. Every other time I met him he didn't have 100% of his CDs to blow and I killed him very easily. Without a second opener I will always win.

 

All of the above is right on. I have dominated 1v1 from lvl 1-v64. I would add well geared, skilled sin/shadow to the mildly annoying list but overall id say I win 90% of my 1v1s and that's inc when my CDs are down. All things equal with CDs and I simply never lose a 1v1 as 31 pyro. Even 2v1 is consistently doable provided 1 of the 2 targets are relatively easy to kill. Pyro is a 1v1 monster.

[Ryotknife]

im really having a hard time seeing pyro as a monster considering every single BM pyro ive seen does less damage than practically every other BM dps spec, and pyro has less utility and survivability than other PT specs and other AC dps specs. the only pvp talent pyro has is a snare break on a long CD, which is nearly worthless considering how often snares can be spammed or how short some of them are.

 

AP at least has better interupt, grapple, movement speed, reduced damage while stunned, and defensive cd. not to mention thermal detonator takes away your second most useful aoe ability.

 

one thing that is nice about pyro is how easy it is to manage resources.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Sabbathius]

im really having a hard time seeing pyro as a monster

 

The trick is to SIGNIFICANTLY outgear the people you're killing, and telling yourself it's not the gear, it's your mad skills and amazing spec that are doing it.

[Quor]

The trick is to SIGNIFICANTLY outgear the people you're killing, and telling yourself it's not the gear, it's your mad skills and amazing spec that are doing it.

 

That's pretty much how I feel as Pyrotech on my lowbie BH. I run in, spam Flame Burst, toss out the odd Incendiary Missile/Explosive Dart, and Rail Shot as it's available or if I get a proc that resets the CD. Taunt everyone I can as often as possible and I'll come out at level 23 with top damage, top 3 objective score and second or third highest protection.

 

I mean, it's nowhere near as mindless as a TM Merc or Grav Round Commando, but I always find myself marveling at how easy it is to deal damage compared to my other classes.

 

There's also something quite funny about a fat Chiss running around lighting people on fire.

[jtfone]

Pretty much any class where the player knows how to play. That's for me, at least.

 

Poorly played - I stomp them regardless of class. Well played - it's 50/50 at best.

 

Biochem also is a big factor. On some of my chars I have no Biochem, and on some I do. And when I fight people, some have it, some don't. Whoever doesn't have it is at a HUGE disadvantage.

 

My personal feeling about the PT is that the class is very bland and simple. You don't really get anything serious in a way of tools to deal with situations that might come up, not the way some other classes do. I mean, Marauders get mobility and mini-vanish, Assassins get stealth and knockback/down, Sorcerers get a full toolbox, and so on.

 

Powertech - you try to DPS them down before they DPS you down. There's hardly any room for anything fancy. You have a whopping two CCs, not counting Grapple. A few defensive abilities, one on a long-ish cooldown. Come up against someone who has more cooldowns and DPS higher or equal to yours, and you're toast. The class doesn't give you enough tools to outplay your opponent the way some other classes do.

 

That's probably why you are having trouble with Marauders. Their DPS is at least on par with PT, probably higher. And their defensive cooldowns are more, and arguably more effective. Chaining Saber Ward, Obfuscate, Force Cloak and Undying Rage with Cloak of Pain running throughout, plus adding a Force Choke into the mix, it's possible that they can take more damage than a PT can. Without cooldowns, yeah, Maras are toast. But with cooldowns they can be tough as nails. At least well played ones are.

 

Totally agree. The PT is underwhelming with minimal survival options for 1 v 1 pvp. I made a sentinel and its night and day. You actually feel like your making a difference and the class is extremely effective in 1 v 1 situations with fantastic tools to escape. Sorc, Sins, Ops, Juggs have this type of survivability as well.

 

On my sentinel I love going after BH's....its an easy kill.

[Dharagada]

I can't argue with the complete lack of surviability of a pure pyro when being focused down.

 

It's really the specs biggest flaw, you have no mobility and the defensive cool downs you get really aren't going to save you if you get focused.

 

Assuming a fight with myself and someone equally geared and knows what they are doing, I can generally hold my own against just about any class 1 on 1, but that's it, if a second person shows up (and they aren't completely brain dead) then I'm dead, there's no escaping, best case scenario I burn down the first attacker before I die.

 

Compare this to a good marauder/sentinel who can pull off the kill and then escape, come back and re-engage and kill the second attacker. Marauder I run with does it all the time.

 

I don't fear marauders and sentinels I actually look forward to fighting them cause decent ones are fun to fight and I'm certainly not a free kill, but I'm envious of their ability to engage and disengage from a fight.

 

As an added note, what's this comment about Pyro powertech doing less damage than other bounty hunters? I've never seen this.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Dharagada

[darkrom]

Pyro here........I struggle with Trooper and Smuggler healers but mostly Smuggler heals cause they continuously heal on the run. I blame it on my weak gear and their battlemaster gear combined with my team's inability to attack the guy with 400k healing per match.

 

Burn in hell loot bags.