Please stop making threads regarding Sentinel balance if you are below level 50.

[Xilrasis]

Thank you, and have a nice day. And this thread title applies whether you think they suck or whether you think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

(P.S. Our PVE leveling difficulty is more or less irrelevant, if any disparity exists whatsoever.)

 

Also -- if you're undergeared.

 

I couldn't fit that part in.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Xilrasis

[flamezfan]

And you shouldn't have to wait until level 50 to begin to have fun with a class? Thank you and have a nice day!

[RamzaBehoulve]

And you shouldn't have to wait until level 50 to begin to have fun with a class? Thank you and have a nice day!

 

What he meant is that it is pointless to try to achieve PvP balance 10-49. It's impossible since you are playing against different levels with people having different skills and talents, therefore, at least for PvP, people below 50 shouldn't try to point out deficiencies.

 

Now, for PvE, it's a slightly different matter since the overall leveling experience depends on it. That said, Sentinel is mostly fine except for Combat lvl 20-30 and the knight final story fight which is being simplified anyway.

 

Truth of the matter is most people are not efficient on how they approach their leveling, they use their money on useless things/upgrades/skills, they don't use all their skills appropriately (biggest offender here is Kick), they don't think of a strategy ending up just jumping in and they somehow sometimes even end up below the required level. They then end up coming to the forums complaining the class is broken/underpowered.

 

This is annoying, plenty of people reached level 50 without any issues, therefore the problem is more often than not with the player and not the class itself.

 

Basically, the opinion of people below 50 is not pointless, but of very limited value. They should most of time ask for tips and advices instead of arguing on balance.

 

Remember one thing clearly, it's easier for people to complain than actually think for themselves. Everyone is like that at one point. Depends on the subject. That's just how our society evolved in the last 30 years.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[flamezfan]

Truth is, a game should be fun on all levels, not just once you reach a certain level. You spend how many hours trying to level to 50 the game should be fun in both pve and pvp, nut just when you reach level 50. Personally, you bought the game, spent money to play it, you do have the right to complain, brag and whatever. Don't like it, dont read them! it's that simple!

[Dagimpster]

i agree below lvl 50 means nothing.... lvling isn't always ment to be fun, you are working to get the point where u can have fun and sometimes work isn't fun.

 

 

PVP- under 50 has no value in complaining past it makes them feel better.... when lvl and playing pvp i had no problem in WZ, was i the highest damage person out there hell no.... But my objective score was always the highest to the highest (which typically means u helped out the most, and yes defending the left node is required even if its very slow)

 

PVE- under 50 you have no say in class mechanics.... now this isn't saying you don't have a voice on the difficulty of quests you have a voice but not on actual mechanics of the class since you don't have the full potential of the class.

 

Now about the difficulty of the quest... if you play your class right its all simple. my gear was always sub par and the end of the story was the only quest i had difficulty on, yes you die here and there but that doesn't mean the class sucks it happens from time to time.

[JerokTalram]

This is annoying, plenty of people reached level 50 without any issues, therefore the problem is more often than not with the player and not the class itself.

 

Hmm, I think you will find that the level 50 Sentinels are a minority. Why should I only care about level 50 pvp when I'm stuggling to reach 50 in PVE. I'm not sure the class is any more broken than others but we do have no CCs (save combat) nor a push back and some of the mission bosses are way too strong for their level.

 

I've struggled ever since I fought Valis. THings got better when I got DOC but for some reason HOTH didn't give me enough XP because I went from almost 2 level over to one under in one planet and I did everything but the heroics.

 

Now I'm level 42 on Belsavis and I running 2 missions I can't complete because I am getting wasted by the Elites (and adds - without the adds the one wouldn't be killing me). I already beat several elites at this level but these ones to finish the missions are way too tough.

 

I shouldn't need to buy some fancy gamer keyboard or spend 150 on a mouse to be able to play the game well enough to level that's complete BS. If I can't play this class well enough to succeed what about a handicap player? What should they be restricted to playing Socerer or Sage?

Edited February 1, 2012 by JerokTalram

[Dagimpster]

Truth is, a game should be fun on all levels, not just once you reach a certain level. You spend how many hours trying to level to 50 the game should be fun in both pve and pvp, nut just when you reach level 50. Personally, you bought the game, spent money to play it, you do have the right to complain, brag and whatever. Don't like it, dont read them! it's that simple!

 

you payed to play the game.... and if setinals aren't fun there are7 other classes you could do...... or just go spamm trace missile..... Setinal is for people that dont mind having to work to do good, do setianls have minor bugs yes.... can you really tell while lvl no... pvping i was kill 50s at lvl 20 (yeh they probly sucked) but i was also killing everyone else to.... its not hard to do well and have fun if you dont mind using more then a few hotkeys

[Calsetes]

And you shouldn't have to wait until level 50 to begin to have fun with a class? Thank you and have a nice day!

 

Exactly - the classes should be (reasonably) balanced throughout their leveling lifespan, and not just at the max level for the game. That's basic common sense - who'd want to play as Crappy McCrap for 9/10ths of the game only to shine at the very end of it? It'd be like playing a Superman game where you're Clark Kent until the final boss fight, or a Hulk game where you don't Hulk-out until the final level.

[Acanti]

I shouldn't need to buy some fancy gamer keyboard or spend 150 on a mouse to be able to play the game well enough to level that's complete BS.

 

You don't.

[SarimRune]

i agree below lvl 50 means nothing.... lvling isn't always ment to be fun, you are working to get the point where u can have fun and sometimes work isn't fun./QUOTE]

 

Utter. Nonsense.

 

This is a game. An ideal game should be fun from beginning to end.

[Dagimpster]

i agree below lvl 50 means nothing.... lvling isn't always ment to be fun, you are working to get the point where u can have fun and sometimes work isn't fun./QUOTE]

 

Utter. Nonsense.

 

This is a game. An ideal game should be fun from beginning to end.

 

the only reason why people complain about it not being fun is cause its to hard... which says is stupid. if its to hard its a l2p issue... if you want a facrolll class go spam trace missles... setinals aren't ment to be a class everyone will enjoy from start to end, but if you are dead set on it 50 is hella fun but its also just as hard as 10-49.

 

 

i had fun working to get to 50 cause it was an interesting story that i didn't just 1 shot everything and had to think of strategies to use in certain spots..... if you dont like to use your brain i geuss the class isn't for you.

 

 

Sorry if that sounds like an insult but its the truth... i am done posting in here cause the only responese will be the same people that shouldn't be playing the class

Edited February 1, 2012 by Dagimpster

[rakuenCallisto]

 

the only reason why people complain about it not being fun is cause its to hard... which says is stupid. if its to hard its a l2p issue... if you want a facrolll class go spam trace missles... setinals aren't ment to be a class everyone will enjoy from start to end, but if you are dead set on it 50 is hella fun but its also just as hard as 10-49.

 

 

i had fun working to get to 50 cause it was an interesting story that i didn't just 1 shot everything and had to think of strategies to use in certain spots..... if you dont like to use your brain i geuss the class isn't for you.

 

 

Sorry if that sounds like an insult but its the truth... i am done posting in here cause the only responese will be the same people that shouldn't be playing the class

 

Actually it's not the truth. If you even clicked on the "Sentinel" class thread and browsed through all of them - you'd find about 70% of all posts in this thread are about Sent being "UP" and their shortcomings/bugs/difficulty level compared to other classes.

 

It's not a L2P issue when BW designed a class in such a way.

[Heraclea]

i agree below lvl 50 means nothing.... lvling isn't always ment to be fun,

 

Hello? This is a game. I have other things to do with my leisure time. If the levelling game is not entertaining, or one class is significantly more frustrating than another, that's a problem. And since everybody starts out at level 1, no glorious endgame is going to persuade most people with limited time on their hands to level a character if that process is painful.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Hello? This is a game. I have other things to do with my leisure time. If the levelling game is not entertaining, or one class is significantly more frustrating than another, that's a problem. And since everybody starts out at level 1, no glorious endgame is going to persuade most people with limited time on their hands to level a character if that process is painful.

 

Same old, same old.

 

Why are you still playing Sentinel then? When something feels a waste of time and frustrating, we do something else as you pointed out.

 

Time to move on instead of trying to force changes on everyone else enjoying it as is.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[maxlongstreet]

This post is classic douchery. As someone who enjoys 1-50 much more than endgame, it's a big screw you.

[RamzaBehoulve]

This post is classic douchery. As someone who enjoys 1-50 much more than endgame, it's a big screw you.

 

You can enjoy 1-50 without having to rave daily about PvP balance. I did.

 

In fact, the only thing worth playing in this game is 1-50, then it's better to unsubscribe and move on to something else.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[McVade]

You can enjoy 1-50 without having to rave daily about PvP balance. I did.

 

In fact, the only thing worth playing in this game is 1-50, then it's better to unsubscribe and move on to something else.

 

Sadly, I'm starting to think there's a lot of truth to this.

[thanealpha]

I disagree with the assertion that:

a> sub 50's have no relavence to PvP balance and

b> that sub 50's cannot be balanced with regard to PvP

 

Here's why.

 

Let's take power variance to it's extreme. What if Sentinels had NO skills until L50. All they could do is just run around in hutball and throw the ball, and hit people with their fists. But at 50 they were PERFECTLY balanced.

 

ANYONE would agree that there is a problem that needs addressed.

 

Now lets go to the other extreme. What if Sentinels were EXACTLY matched to every other class except that one of their skills hit for 1 point of damage on average lower than every other classe.

 

ANYONE would agree that there's a discrepency, but that the problem is meaningless and the lowest of priority.

 

---

 

Now lets examine the factors that come into play in the middle.

 

1> Magnitude of power discrepency from 1-49. Are the issues being raised meaningful enough to merit "fixing"?

 

2> Balance at 50. The assumption is there's a balance at 50 that exists that isn't impacted by what happens from 1-49 SOME issues that affect 1-49 may carry over into L50 balance and would merit "fixing" or at least discussion.

 

3> Opinion. This is probably the biggest one. Opinions are formed, and people stick to them despite evidence. Things like balance are not always documented in fact. This leaves a lot open to interpretation.

 

4> Build/Gear varience. This too complicates things because unless two players have the EXACT same build/gear and they're fighting the EXACT same opponent with the same build/gear two very different opinions could be formed.

 

----

 

Conclusion?

 

I'm a fan of letting people talk/discuss/share/communicate the good and the bad they see in a class. Saying, "Your opinion doesn't count" is just not true. Because their experiences ARE their reality and the game can ONLY be improved by examining ALL datapoints and not taking an exclusionary position.

 

But that's just my perspective...thankfully I'm L50 and Valor 60 so I guess it counts.

[HiroAyami]

Same old, same old.

 

Why are you still playing Sentinel then? When something feels a waste of time and frustrating, we do something else as you pointed out.

 

Time to move on instead of trying to force changes on everyone else enjoying it as is.

 

Picking points, frustrating is one thing, but being that much more is another. Frustration hitting a wall in terms of skill is perfectly acceptable, as long as you can still play the class to a reasonable degree, at the very least this should be the case with PvE.

 

I don't mind a struggle, but I'm still casual, sure I'm happy playing hard mode on games, but I'm not looking at competitive PvP or anything of the sort. I hit 40, got my 31 point skill and ground my last 10 levels on a Sentinel in PvP just to get a better feel for the class, and because I really wanted the battlemaster gear.

 

OP really just says: "Stick head up *** and ignore unbalanced progression until you reach balanced end game."

[thanealpha]

 

the only reason why people complain about it not being fun is cause its to hard... which says is stupid.

 

I disagree.

 

I personally would like to see MORE difficulty in MMOs...they've dumbed them down to unspeakably low amounts over the years.

 

But I also have SEVERE complaints when there are large discrepencies in class to class, or tree to tree power profiles.

 

There's no L2P issue here. I'm plenty adept at playing. I just want the game to be better, and in the case of Sentinels I think there's a LOT of work to be done to achieve that better game.

 

---

 

If you want my opinion, the people who love citing L2P as their answer to everything are really just childish braggarts who think they're better players than they are.

 

The BEST players know the deficiencies and weaknesses in the game and want them fixed.

[BrysBeddict]

Hello? This is a game. I have other things to do with my leisure time. If the levelling game is not entertaining, or one class is significantly more frustrating than another, that's a problem. And since everybody starts out at level 1, no glorious endgame is going to persuade most people with limited time on their hands to level a character if that process is painful.

 

No it's only a problem for you. It isn't a problem for me, and seeing as sentinel is one of the most popular classes(aside from shadow there are more sentinels online at any given time then other classes on my server) I would surmise it isn't a problem for most people. It will only be a problem for BW if people quit playing the game because it's "too hard" which obviously isn't happening. No one is forcing anyone to buy the game and play sentinel. There is plenty of market for the job the way it is now difficulty and all.

 

As for leves 1-49. The fact is in successful MMOs that last most players spend the majority of their time playing the game at max level on endgame content. It took me a month to get to lv 50 in this game. That's nothing if I play this game for a year. If i'm BW the only way I waste time and resources on balance lv1-49 is if it's egregiously awful, and the way I determine that is by the number of people playing the class, not reading forum posts where the vocal minority pops out, not the satisfied majority that typically doesn't even check forums.

[RamzaBehoulve]

The BEST players know the deficiencies and weaknesses in the game and want them fixed.

 

Which is why everyone agreed that Combat has a problem starting around lvl 20 up untl at least 30 and some would argue 43. That is also why almost everyone agrees we'd need an extra CC breaker or a real stun in PvP.

 

What these "best" people will not agree on is noobs coming screaming bloody murder because they don't know what Kick is when fighting Darth Angral. Then we take the time to explain the whole thing about skill utility, equipment importance as well as understanding a fight and using the correct strategy just to be told "no, I want easy mode".

 

The so-called "best" are tired of whiners who won't make even the smallest effort to learn how to play the class properly and therefore we don't give a crap about their opinion anymore. They can go whine in their corner for all I care.

 

We don't need sub-50 opinions anymore, the issues have been discussed at large when the "best" were leveling themselves. If Bioware doesn't want to act, we can't do anything about it except unsubscribe for those who feel the game/class is not fun.

 

(Which I did by the way, never saw such a broken, useless and unpolished piece of **** end-game content in any MMO to date).

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[thanealpha]

Which is why everyone agreed that Combat has a problem starting around lvl 20 up untl at least 30 and some would argue 43. That is also why almost everyone agrees we'd need an extra CC breaker or a real stun in PvP.

 

What these "best" people will not agree on is noobs coming screaming bloody murder because they don't know what Kick is when fighting Darth Angral. Then we take the time to explain the whole thing about skill utility, equipment importance as well as understanding a fight and using the correct strategy just to be told "no, I want easy mode".

 

The so-called "best" are tired of whiners who won't make even the smallest effort to learn how to play the class properly and therefore we don't give a crap about their opinion anymore. They can go whine in their corner for all I care.

 

You can say you're tired of it, but VERY few threads on the first two pages are complaining about Sents, and even fewer are talking about Darth Angral.

 

In fact I see on teh front page alone, SEVERAL threads of people bashing other players who are complaining, but I don't see the complaint threads.

 

I think there are several players who just get their kicks by starting threads and posting about how terrible other people are to make themselves look good.

 

It's sad really. We should ALL be wanting the game to be better and for the level of play to be better for everyone.

 

Instead people complain and assert their uber leet skills rather than listen to what ARE in fact legitimate issues with the class.

 

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that Sentinels are:

 

a> At a far steeper learning curve than most others.

b> FAR underpowered in the Combat tree...in fact in most builds that aren't a very specific Watchman build, although there is the AoE Focus route that is marginally playable.

c> Excessively affected by the combat stuttering issues, FAR more than most classes, and again far more in Combat due to the reliance on BR/BS which stutter perhaps worse than any other skills in the game.

d> Just flat out more gear/companion dependant than most other classes, i.e. weaker

e> Pure dps, along with Gunslinger the only classes who have no other tree options, no off dps skills, therefore SEVERELY limited reward structure in terms of medals in PvP warzones.

 

You can cite "whiners" who don't know how to kick all you want. But I'm not seeing the prevalence of those threads.

 

What I'm seeing are some LEGITIMATE threads about LEGITIMATE Sentinel issues and a TON of bragging threads putting down people who raise issues as poor players or needing to L2P.

 

It's really a poor sign of things to come for this community and for this class. Bunch of know it all, I'm better than you so shut up, type of people. And frankly it's pretty disgusting.

[RamzaBehoulve]

You can say you're tired of it, but VERY few threads on the first two pages are complaining about Sents, and even fewer are talking about Darth Angral.

 

In fact I see on teh front page alone, SEVERAL threads of people bashing other players who are complaining, but I don't see the complaint threads.

 

Did you look up when the trashing threads were posted ?

 

Yeah, you'll find out the time is the same as the Darth Angral and everything else threads.

 

It's just that for once people are being smart and using the search function, trying to keep everything in 1-2 threads instead of complaining in new ones all the time.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Garrum]

You can say you're tired of it, but VERY few threads on the first two pages are complaining about Sents, and even fewer are talking about Darth Angral.

 

In fact I see on teh front page alone, SEVERAL threads of people bashing other players who are complaining, but I don't see the complaint threads.

 

I think there are several players who just get their kicks by starting threads and posting about how terrible other people are to make themselves look good.

 

It's sad really. We should ALL be wanting the game to be better and for the level of play to be better for everyone.

 

Instead people complain and assert their uber leet skills rather than listen to what ARE in fact legitimate issues with the class.

 

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that Sentinels are:

 

a> At a far steeper learning curve than most others.

b> FAR underpowered in the Combat tree...in fact in most builds that aren't a very specific Watchman build, although there is the AoE Focus route that is marginally playable.

c> Excessively affected by the combat stuttering issues, FAR more than most classes, and again far more in Combat due to the reliance on BR/BS which stutter perhaps worse than any other skills in the game.

d> Just flat out more gear/companion dependant than most other classes, i.e. weaker

e> Pure dps, along with Gunslinger the only classes who have no other tree options, no off dps skills, therefore SEVERELY limited reward structure in terms of medals in PvP warzones.

 

You can cite "whiners" who don't know how to kick all you want. But I'm not seeing the prevalence of those threads.

 

What I'm seeing are some LEGITIMATE threads about LEGITIMATE Sentinel issues and a TON of bragging threads putting down people who raise issues as poor players or needing to L2P.

 

It's really a poor sign of things to come for this community and for this class. Bunch of know it all, I'm better than you so shut up, type of people. And frankly it's pretty disgusting.

 

It took almost two years (back in vanilla/early BC) for WoW's forum community to fully degenerate into what this forum is already in less than 2 months. We need an ignore function on the forums. The elitists aren't interested in discussing anything, they just want to chant 'L2P' and none of the rest of us are interested in reading their text based circle jerk, so we can all just ingore the other and go on with our lives.