Dalkore Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Customized ships would be fine, but again this concept is against the grain. A game that provides instanced warzones for PVP is a totally different game from a sandbox that let's you build or hold cities and have them traded back and forth in war... This game is not about permanence, it is about instanced play. Then the game will fail. Instances serve a purpose but we need persistent features as well and this is what people would like. We need land to fight over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGVet Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Great idea except likely ever to happen, especially with everything the way it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGVet Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) no this is not lotr Never mind. Edited February 1, 2012 by SWGVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voqar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No and no? Player housing is a waste of dev time that leads to players holing up in their virtual nowheres, leaving public spaces empty. People talk about community...player housing helps kill it. Player run cities have worked where? Oh yeah...in crappily designed games that failed and/ro got shut down. Let's not incorporate bad ideas from failed games, m'kay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannickj Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i say make planets on the servers that players can fight over. so its faction against faction. the ultimate pvp universe. that should shut up the pve/story-haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalkore Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 It doesn't need to be lotro for it to succeed. You seem like a narrow minded individual. I have never played that either, its funny how all I read is people saying oh like SWG or LOTR, no no no. Done in a way that fits in the game. How is asking for new features, narrow-minded. You might want to read the definition of narrow-minded. You telling me no and it would be like another game is actually narrow-minded. I am looking for creative thought and criticism only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It wouldn't be too bad to implement ship customizations. Create a customization slot like how your companions have except for ships. Buy "customized" interior packages. I can't wait until guild capital ships come out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalkore Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 No and no? Player housing is a waste of dev time that leads to players holing up in their virtual nowheres, leaving public spaces empty. People talk about community...player housing helps kill it. Player run cities have worked where? Oh yeah...in crappily designed games that failed and/ro got shut down. Let's not incorporate bad ideas from failed games, m'kay? Bad implementation does not guarantee Bad Idea. Keep the housing close to existing cities, like a suburb around it and make it limited so there is supply and demand in effect. I want a social game, so we need politics of some sort to pass the time. I keep hearing many stories of people fully geared and complaining there is nothing to do. Player run stuff, creates things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabrac Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Our ship is our house in this game. It would be nice if we could customize our ship more though. There is space so it would be nice to feel your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeAuster Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am not talking about SWG, use your imagination. If anything, I would do it like UO and Shadowbane. I bet the people who are dismissing this idea, are the sames ones complaining there is nothing to do cause there all Tier 9 Supermaster gear and they just want to jump in to another game to grind up and complain a week later there is nothing to do. This GIVES US SOMETHING TO DO. You can't have it both ways, Bioware will not be able to give us enough content to keep us happy unless they make it so insanely hard that you will complain about that too. We need something dynamic that is controlled by players. I think we can agree to that. That's one bet you would lose. Not all of us who came in at early start rushed like fiends to get to 50. There are many who are taking their time, enjoying the story laid out by BW. Now, if I were like you and were to assume, I'd bet that if this was implemented and you started lagging in one of the player-created cities you'd be back on these forums screaming "MY FPS IS 10! BW YOU SUCK!!!! I'M UNSUBBING!!!!" That is, if I were to assume like you. My worries about this system are grounded in the experience of SWG and the current problems many are facing with fps drops. If a player-created city zone could be implemented without these problems, then by all means go for it. Put it on it's own planet though. I don't want to be on Tat or Alderaan and have the scenery ruined by a sea of houses. Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paladinn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't want housing planetside. Could be cool, could be fun, but would just be a headache with present game design. Now ship designing...that would be nice. Leveling up as a Merc I saved every orange moddable pistol I ever found, and fill half a bay in my bank with them. Same with armor. It would be awesome to be able to buy and mount gun racks in my ship to display them like trophys, or to be able to take trophies from hunts, such as killing a world boss and being able to take a tooth or horn or whatever and then mount it over my bed. Things like this would make it waaaay more fun to putz around in my mantis. I am really looking forward to guild capital ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Guild ships and customization options for our ships is something I'm hoping they eventually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalkore Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's one bet you would lose. Not all of us who came in at early start rushed like fiends to get to 50. There are many who are taking their time, enjoying the story laid out by BW. Now, if I were like you and were to assume, I'd bet that if this was implemented and you started lagging in one of the player-created cities you'd be back on these forums screaming "MY FPS IS 10! BW YOU SUCK!!!! I'M UNSUBBING!!!!" That is, if I were to assume like you. My worries about this system are grounded in the experience of SWG and the current problems many are facing with fps drops. If a player-created city zone could be implemented without these problems, then by all means go for it. Put it on it's own planet though. I don't want to be on Tat or Alderaan and have the scenery ruined by a sea of houses. Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt. First off, I am lvl 38. I am not rushing to grind up, I am learning the game and the content on the way. Second, I have had to deal with FPS drop and you learn to deal with it and you can use it to your advantage in certain cases. We should not shun ideas because it was not done well or performance issues, those are items that can be addresses with talented developers and with Bioware, I think we have that bunch. We need to talk about what will make this game better than anything out there. The last thing people want is another WOW in space with lightsabers, I want diversity and something to lose and gain. Like real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GellonSW Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Our ship is our house in this game. It would be nice if we could customize our ship more though. There is space so it would be nice to feel your own. I agree. Our entire journey is basically flying from one planet to the next. That ship is pretty much our home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squallalaha Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 no . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) A good idea, but like SWG has shown us, it would be a game breaker. Does anyone from SWG remember the sea of empty houses outside Mos Eisly? More importantly, does anyone remember trying to head out from there (or Theed for that matter) and have to deal with the continual snap-backs because of lag caused by all the housing and decorations loading into your system? While it would be great to be able to have our own housing (which we do, with our ships), player cities would just create even more of a FPS problem for the game. Now, the ability to decorate our ships would be nice... I played SWG. I placed a City Hall to start a city. I loved the concept of setting up a city, having players own part of the game, being able to place bases and having to defend them against attacks. I participated in such defenses in our own city and in an allied guilds's, and I helped raid other bases. I don't recall snap back as a result of player cities, but I do remember it in game from time to time. But I do agree with the rest of what DeAuster is trying to get across. That said, being able to place houses and create cities was a great concept, but only on paper. It works when the game is new and vibrant, and it works when it is first implemented, while it is still a fresh idea and people can be invovled in creating something new. However, in practice, people eventually get their house placed, and decorated, then it loses its initial appeal. The same with cities. After a bit, it's just stuff that is there. Worse, people leave the game, and houses become vacant. People who are still there are usually out doing other content. The city eventually starts to be vacant except for the occassional traveler passing through. The only thing needed to make the feeling complete would be to have tumbleweeds rolling through town. In the end, you have the landscape littered with ghost towns, which only creates the sense that the game is emptier than it actually is. Player housing in the game world looks great on paper and is exciting when it is first implemented, but in practice, it is a bad idea. Don't expect to see what SWG had again in any game, let alone this one. Player housing will likely always be instanced from now on, and, as someone mentioned, our housing is essentially our ships. They will likely add customization/decorating options, but don't expect anything like what SWG had. Ironically, I eventually packed up all my stuff and moved it to my Luxury Cruiser that I got with the space expansion. You could decorate it like a house, and you could park it at any orbital station, so you were not tied to any one planet. In this game, your ship follows you wherever you go, so all the better. No thanks, OP. I loved SWG, but housing as they had it in SWG was something that just doesn't work well for the long term health of a game. Edited January 31, 2012 by Sotaudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Then the game will fail. Instances serve a purpose but we need persistent features as well and this is what people would like. We need land to fight over. The vast majority of games do it this way, and because of their relative success Bioware chose that model. The sandbox games are small and far fewer. They picked to model off WoW instead of Eve Online for a reason. The game will not fail because they choose not do a 180 degree turnabout in design philosophy after it launches... They would fail if they did. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to play the game you describe... It just needs to be built from scratch, not throw some half baked add-ons to a themepark game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmon_StarRunner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok.. you people that are saying Housing and the Sandbox model killed SWG might want to re-think or read the history of the game before making totally erroneous statements. The sandbox model was working, I was there from Launch until the NGE. There is no doubt that the game was growing and very successful until the NGE... The NGE killed it.. nothing else. The NGE was the 1st of many very poor design changes. After that it was a domino effect. Nothing they could do would undo the poor *** decision to roll with the NGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalkore Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I agree. Our entire journey is basically flying from one planet to the next. That ship is pretty much our home. You can have both. The point of housing is now having something to fight over and gather near. We could do it in a way that makes centers of people so the social aspect is there. Maybe make Dorms in player run cities that you could rent out and there is only so many available. What I am saying is we need some player controlled real estate with real gains for holding it so we have something to fight over all the time, not just dailies and WZs. I want more politics in the game to it matter more. Right now all I see is a endless grind coming up for no real reason. GIVE US A REASON, I am open to other ideas. I am just throwing this out there to stir something up and get some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baracca Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 "A cave that moves, that never went anywhere? Fascinating..." Two points to whoever can name where that line was used. Antoher two for the name of who said it. close but i believe it was a "moblie" cave that never went anywhere lol good reference though - i love that movie as cheeeezy as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok.. you people that are saying Housing and the Sandbox model killed SWG might want to re-think or read the history of the game before making totally erroneous statements. The sandbox model was working, I was there from Launch until the NGE. There is no doubt that the game was growing and very successful until the NGE... The NGE killed it.. nothing else. The NGE was the 1st of many very poor design changes. After that it was a domino effect. Nothing they could do would undo the poor *** decision to roll with the NGE. The sandbox model is fine. However, a game has to be built from the ground up to support a sandbox style. Everything from the world geometry, to character skills/leveling, to crafting and resource management has to be designed to revolve around this notion. The current SWTOR game has 0 support for anything resembling a sandbox. So, while they can easily add some kind of customization for ship interiors, or Guild shared space... the kind of open-world construction and sandbox PVP the OP envisions would not work in the current game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurvus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I agree with player-influencing/controling areas. I agree with giving players controllable strongholds they can use for various stuff. Problem: Bioware would need to redesign planets because if you look close enough, there is no room for those things. Questing is streamlined and tunneled and the worlds are just barely big enough to have the quest areas, wich are also frequently instanced. I disagree with your idea of player individual housing, specially because Ships are our housing. By the way, even those are instanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mironov Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Guild ships and customization options for our ships is something I'm hoping they eventually do. I concur! I don't really wanna see a custom houses outside of the ship. But if possible I would like to be able to make a party of sorts inside the ship for more people then just in my current team. Maybe be able to invite a whole operation inside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osryri Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Having housing or guild cities gives you a sense of having a place of your own and not just being a number on the server. SWG had this and it was great. Since Ive been playing MMO's I have still not found another MMO that has been able to have the same effect do to lack of personal space in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) You can have both. The point of housing is now having something to fight over and gather near. We could do it in a way that makes centers of people so the social aspect is there. Maybe make Dorms in player run cities that you could rent out and there is only so many available. What I am saying is we need some player controlled real estate with real gains for holding it so we have something to fight over all the time, not just dailies and WZs. I want more politics in the game to it matter more. Right now all I see is a endless grind coming up for no real reason. GIVE US A REASON, I am open to other ideas. I am just throwing this out there to stir something up and get some ideas. There are two problems with this. First, what you describe works in a game built around PvP. This is not such a game. PvP is possible, and there are PvP servers, but this is a PvE game that includes PvP options. There are PvP servers, but there are also PvE servers, and a huge portion of the community has zero interest in PvP. One of the reasons they have no interest is, and this is important to your concept, they don't want other players affecting their game play. So what you are proposing may be appealing to players who play for PvP, but for a large portion of the population, it would actually be a deterrent. Even without that, you will run into the same problem that SWG had. People don't want to be forced to stand around guarding a city that may or may not be attacked. They want to be out doing game content. Likewise, despite the posturing PvPers in general make about wanting real opponents and the like, it is inevitable that most attacks would occur at off times, such as the wee hours of the morning when no one is around to defend or, at best, there will be light resistance, just like they did in SWG. If this were a PvP game, it might work. However, too many people play PvE and specifically choose PvE servers to avoid PvP altogether. It would have limited appeal, and even if it didn't, it eventually gets old standing around waiting for an attack that never comes only to have the enemy take assets while no one is around to defend it. The idea has merit, just not for this game. Edited January 31, 2012 by Sotaudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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