GalacticKegger Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) How to tell when this game has failed. Hmmm, let me see now . . . when I get an email from BioWare stating that the servers are shutting down for good? Otherwise it's moot. Edited January 31, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSharp Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I like you trying to tell me what I cannot do. Let me try - you cannot tell me not to complain. I never claimed this game was made for endgame content alone. All I claimed was that portion of the game is lacking, which it is, which means it is perfectly legitimate to point out. Being a story driven MMO does not change the fact that it's an MMO, and endgame content is a part of all MMOs. Your argument is null and void, I'm sorry. It's really not, you're telling me you have all the gear you can get, which you really don't since there is 7 other classes that have the same content you first character did. so you really havn't 'cleared' the content till there is no progression left to make. Edited January 31, 2012 by xSharp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I like you trying to tell me what I cannot do. Let me try - you cannot tell me not to complain. I never claimed this game was made for endgame content alone. All I claimed was that portion of the game is lacking, which it is, which means it is perfectly fair to point out. Being a story driven MMO does not change the fact that it's an MMO, and endgame content is a part of all MMOs. Your argument is null and void, I'm sorry. Sure, but as long as there have been MMO's, there have been powergamers who clear endgame faster than companies can make it. Remember Wrath? People were complaining about lack of anything to do at endgame within a week of Ulduar being released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerda Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I can't say if the game is a success or a failure. All I can say is the server I am on is too quiet and there are other servers with similar problems so it would be wise for BW to do some free transfers or server merges. So from my point of view a server where I ran into plenty of players going to being a pretty dead one has for me meant the game appears to be a failing. If BW upped pop caps after they'd already made lots of extra servers it seems a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted. The pop cap increases would have been more use to keep a lesser number of servers well populated. I'm not going to go into the whole sharding thing. This may be the case on busy servers but the two I play on are too quiet and rarely have more than one zone/shard. So you can hail it a wonderful success as much as others will hail it a big failure. Nobody but BW really knows the figures and I doubt they are about to release any of that information. For me the game is missing the first M of MMO. It's been very lonely levelling and very lonely doing dailies. Grouping is hard work and takes a lot of time to pull together. But at the end of the day you are all just arm chair critics with no knowledge and we all just interpret what we see/experience. Edited January 31, 2012 by Xerda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Sure, but as long as there have been MMO's, there have been powergamers who clear endgame faster than companies can make it. Remember Wrath? People were complaining about lack of anything to do at endgame within a week of Ulduar being released. This is another big problem. People assuming people who have cleared everything already are power gamers. No, power gamers did everything I did in the first week. They did normal Ops, got that down, then did HM the same week because they are that easy to do. The powergamers annihilated the endgame content in this game. My guild took a few weeks to do it. My guild is completely laid back and doesn't even have set raiding times. We get asked what time is good for us before each new week. We're so laid back it's shameful that we were able to clear everything and get the best of everything at the pace we did. We're competent and organized but nothing close to a dedicated raiding guild or power guild. Edited January 31, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) It's really not, you're telling me you have all the gear you can get, which you really don't since there is 7 other classes that have the same content you first character did. so you really havn't 'cleared' the content till there is no progression left to make. I have no desire to "clear" the single player content of this game. That part is boring to me, aside from the first time I did it. I do not play MMORPGs for the leveling process, especially not so I can do it multiple times. I play it for the endgame content. I do not need to level 8 characters to level cap to play and comment on the endgame content, I'm sorry but you make no sense. Endgame content is lacking. And I will point it out. And you cannot stop me, mwahahahahahahahaha. And there's a lot of people who feel my same way, as these forums prove. We're gonna talk about it, sorry man, if you don't like to see it, don't read it. Nobody forces you to come here. Trying to squelch us isn't going to work, nor is trying to say we can't complain about endgame content due to reasons that have nothing to do with endgame content. We like this game (or I do anyway, can't speak for everybody...hopefully it's enough like to keep me here long), just wish there was more to it at endgame. There is nothing wrong with saying that. Edited January 31, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilauven Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You forgot one. "I feel like I'm paying to beta test." means: "This is my first MMO and/or I have no programming experience whatsoever and have no idea how hard it is to track down and fix bugs." TOR is the most stable MMO I have ever played at release. and I've played alot. They also released with more endgame content than any other MMO I've played. There's 3 planets worth of daily quests that I'm aware of, both pve and pvp. not to mention all the flashpoints. Most of my guild isn't even 50 yet.. so the people who've exhausted all the content absolutely amaze and sadden me. (and then they refuse to play an alt!) All that being said. It's also clear that EA pushed the game into release early, they just *had* to have it out by Chri$tma$. I'm pretty sure most the stuff that's coming in March was intended to be available at release. So the fact the game has everything it does is an amazing acomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proto Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) When people stop whining on the forums, the game has failed. Forum whiners simply means that the game is a success. Lets read between the lines: "I will unsub if this dosnt get put in." means: I love this game, but really want x feature, if I whine the loudest I'm sure they will put it in. does not mean: I will unsub if x feature isnt put in. "Game breaking! X class/ability/feature needs to be buffed/nerfed NOW" means: I'm upset that I cant beat class/ability/feature and want to be king of the hill with easy. does not mean: x class/ability/feature is necessarily in need of said buff/nerf "I have nothing to do at 50!" means: I am enjoying this game SO MUCH that I have put hundreds of hours in and I will continue to do so. I will completely devour each new piece of conent that comes my way. does not mean: There is a lack of repeatable content. "This game has FAILED SO BAD" means: This game is such an integral part of my life that I have to post on the forums because I just CANNOT stop thinking about it and I want attention from other people who keep thinking about it. does not mean: the game has failed. TBH, go look at any successful game's forums (if they have them) and you will see hundreds of whining threads. Good job SWTOR, you are succeeding wildly. When the forums go silent, the game will too. You forgot one major point: People who make posts called "How to tell when this game has failed" and look for positives in all negatives Means: Denial. Edited January 31, 2012 by Proto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromartyfive Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 TBH, go look at any successful game's forums (if they have them) and you will see hundreds of whining threads. Good job SWTOR, you are succeeding wildly. LOL, they should hire you for their customer service center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) When people stop whining on the forums, the game has failed. Forum whiners simply means that the game is a success. Lets read between the lines: "I will unsub if this dosnt get put in." means: I love this game, but really want x feature, if I whine the loudest I'm sure they will put it in. does not mean: I will unsub if x feature isnt put in. "Game breaking! X class/ability/feature needs to be buffed/nerfed NOW" means: I'm upset that I cant beat class/ability/feature and want to be king of the hill with easy. does not mean: x class/ability/feature is necessarily in need of said buff/nerf "I have nothing to do at 50!" means: I am enjoying this game SO MUCH that I have put hundreds of hours in and I will continue to do so. I will completely devour each new piece of conent that comes my way. does not mean: There is a lack of repeatable content. "This game has FAILED SO BAD" means: This game is such an integral part of my life that I have to post on the forums because I just CANNOT stop thinking about it and I want attention from other people who keep thinking about it. does not mean: the game has failed. TBH, go look at any successful game's forums (if they have them) and you will see hundreds of whining threads. Good job SWTOR, you are succeeding wildly. When the forums go silent, the game will too. This is genius, i applaud you for making this thread. You forgot one major point: People who make posts called "How to tell when this game has failed" and look for positives in all negatives Means: Denial. Simply untrue, a person that looks for positives in negative things is a positive person, (an optimist) a person in denial will deny that a certain something is in a certain state, in his case, he is not denying anything, he is simply trying to put a positive spin on the negativity around here, you act like all these bums that say the game is going to die and has no end game content are right, when in fact they couldn't possibly be more wrong. Edited January 31, 2012 by PeacefulViolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Correct but I don't play MMORPGs for the single-player storyline content. If I want that there's Skyrim or DA or ME or a ton of other games which are not multiplayer and offer a far better single-player experience. Not that SWTOR's isn't good, it is, it's just not why I play this game. I play MMORPGs to experience endgame content with friends at max level. We all play for different reasons, this is mine and I'm fairly positive it's a common reason to play MMORPGs. And it is, sadly, lacking in SWTOR. this is so fricking stupid. go play another game then. this one is designed to be mainly a single-player storyline game, with MMO things like PVP, flashpoints, and an auction house added on. that's like you complaining that you are sick of simulating your franchise in Madden, and you don't like to actually play the football games, so Madden is failing because there's not enough options for simulating your franchise. Edited January 31, 2012 by Jeopardydd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voqar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When not even wannabe armchair devs, who are basically kids, who know nothing about the genre or its history, or gaming in general, or programming, or design, or life...start spewing idiocy about whatever game they're playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I like you trying to tell me what I cannot do. Your sense of authority is cute. Let me try - you cannot tell me not to complain. I never claimed this game was made for endgame content alone. All I claimed was that portion of the game is lacking, which it is, which means it is perfectly fair to point out. Being a story driven MMO does not change the fact that it's an MMO, and endgame content is a part of all MMOs which means like everything else, it's open to criticism. Your argument is null and void, I'm sorry. If you have leveled to 50 and cleared all content in the first month, you are absolutely an extremist. You have absolutely dedicated and inordinate amount of time, well beyond reason, to this game. You have also exceeded the life curve of the game. Of that there is no question. Also, there will be end game. These complaints permeated the WoW boards less then a month after release, just as they are here. End game content will be here, but when the main demographic is predicted to arrive, not for the small percentage of hard core gamers. Also, this is not an MMO. It is a MMORPG, under the general category of MMO. End came content is just one aspect of this genre and only becomes more central long after the game is out and that same main demographic is at max level. In short, these things are on a time line and those that have cleared all content to date are well ahead of that timeline. Not the game's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopbounce Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You know, The OP has a great point that, in my experience, is ACTUALLY TRUE. When Age of Conan had less QQ on their forums, it was after server populations dropped so low they ended up merging everyone onto 3 whole servers. (and they still didn't feel populated) When there's no QQ on the forums, that means only the die-hard fans are left. And that would not be a large population. Being a beta tester, I do have to wonder about the mentality of some of the beta testers though...I mean like...who would be stupid enough to call for NOT including a better LFG tool? *lesigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have no desire to "clear" the single player content of this game. That part is boring to me, aside from the first time I did it. I do not play MMORPGs for the leveling process, especially not so I can do it multiple times. I play it for the endgame content. I do not need to level 8 characters to level cap to play and comment on the endgame content, I'm sorry but you make no sense. Well, there you go. You've chosen the wrong game to play, and are frustrating yourself in an attempt to convince others that it should change to a game more suited for you. Might be lest frustrating to play a game designed around your desires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laserfloyd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 lol. I do agree with this post but I will say I am underwhelmed in many departments. I feel like I'm paying for beta. Not even close to feeling like a Beta. Rewind 11 years to Anarchy Online launch. If you had been there then this would feel like a polished diamond. Which, by comparison, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, if you don't have all 8 classes to 50 yet you can't really complain about content, Yes.. the fill-in quests are all the same, but each class has its own story and will still keep you at least mildly entertained for a while The main issues being the filler quests get boring as feth the third or fourth time through. The story lines are great but some of the quests are as mundane as the filler ones. Although, if you look at it logically, the filler quests take up most of the time so to be honest the story IS the filler content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The main issues being the filler quests get boring as feth the third or fourth time through. The story lines are great but some of the quests are as mundane as the filler ones. Although, if you look at it logically, the filler quests take up most of the time so to be honest the story IS the filler content. there's also pvp, flashpoints, and space missions that reduce the amounts of side quests you need to do. quite frankly if anybody gets to doing all the side quests 4 times before more content is released, then there's pretty much nothing any company could do to satiate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunabaguna Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 You forgot one. "I feel like I'm paying to beta test." means: "This is my first MMO and/or I have no programming experience whatsoever and have no idea how hard it is to track down and fix bugs." TOR is the most stable MMO I have ever played at release. and I've played alot. They also released with more endgame content than any other MMO I've played. There's 3 planets worth of daily quests that I'm aware of, both pve and pvp. not to mention all the flashpoints. Most of my guild isn't even 50 yet.. so the people who've exhausted all the content absolutely amaze and sadden me. (and then they refuse to play an alt!) All that being said. It's also clear that EA pushed the game into release early, they just *had* to have it out by Chri$tma$. I'm pretty sure most the stuff that's coming in March was intended to be available at release. So the fact the game has everything it does is an amazing acomplishment. Totally forgot about that one. The other day for my CS class I tried to write my first while loop. After the 39th time of me trying it only to find out that each if else statement, despite having a cin.get(); defined, stayed on a neverending loop, I threw in the towel and just rewrote the entire program using a goto loop =P. I feel soooooo sorry for mmo programers. I can only imagine the sheer frustration when your patch goes live and the bug you were absolutely sure you fixed just got compounded. I would cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 there's also pvp, flashpoints, and space missions that reduce the amounts of side quests you need to do. quite frankly if anybody gets to doing all the side quests 4 times before more content is released, then there's pretty much nothing any company could do to satiate them. PVP is garbage. The flashpoints are good The space missions are a complete failure Dont keep saying its the players fault for this either. Its Biowares fault for making the only thing to do is level to 50 and thats fast and easy. Also I love the many excuses of why players dont have content is because they play the game too much. The I have fun and tons of content because I only play 1 hour a day so just stop playing and then you can have content. Thats just stupid to think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunabaguna Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 PVP is garbage. The flashpoints are good The space missions are a complete failure Dont keep saying its the players fault for this either. Its Biowares fault for making the only thing to do is level to 50 and thats fast and easy. Also I love the many excuses of why players dont have content is because they play the game too much. The I have fun and tons of content because I only play 1 hour a day so just stop playing and then you can have content. Thats just stupid to think that way. Read: I cant pvp I am capable of hiding in groups I dont understand minigames Thank you for illustrating my OP. Please keep whining, it means the game is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordgracy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Then wow must already be dead. It's had complainers since it's launch. lol reading comprehension FTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysantemum Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 TBH, go look at any successful game's forums (if they have them) and you will see hundreds of whining threads. Good job SWTOR, you are succeeding wildly. When the forums go silent, the game will too. I like this Jawa. He understands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well..I've more than once wondered why the forums here go so fast if people are so annoyed with this game (dead games usually have dead forums). Propably because what you said Op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faytte Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Totally forgot about that one. The other day for my CS class I tried to write my first while loop. After the 39th time of me trying it only to find out that each if else statement, despite having a cin.get(); defined, stayed on a neverending loop, I threw in the towel and just rewrote the entire program using a goto loop =P. I feel soooooo sorry for mmo programers. I can only imagine the sheer frustration when your patch goes live and the bug you were absolutely sure you fixed just got compounded. I would cry. They are professionals that get paid lots of money and have been working on this game for 5 years with a budget of 200M. Almost all of them I would wadger worked on other MMOs before. As a programmer myself (Ruby Rails,.Net, etc) i find the product detestable. A ton of the bugs should have been caught simply by internal QA testing before it even went to Alpha and then Beta, but somehow it got past all of that (which implies there was no focus testing during beta). The buggyness of the end game operations alone almost seems to scream "never tested", or the universal performance issues on Illum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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