TheNdoki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think this about covers the anti-modders arguments. If I missed one lemme know and I'll update it. If you are against mods/addons, pick your argument below. #Macros/addons aren't needed. -That depends on your definition of 'need'. We're all playing this game (or any game) to have fun, and the more we can tailor the game to suit our individual play styles, the more enjoyment we'll all get out of it. If enjoying a game isn't important to you then why are you playing it at all? #Macros/addons break the game! -False! Addons don't provide any information not already available in the game, and macros cannot press buttons for you. They are so players can customize the information being presented to them in a way they prefer. #Addons make the game unfair! -How can something be unfair when it's available to everyone? #I don't have time to download addons/I don't know how! -If you have time to read this, you have time to download it. Don't have time to look at the settings for your new addon? Try it next time you're on a speeder path. Don't know how? You found this forum, it's not much harder than that. #I don't want to be forced to deal with people looking at my gearscore or DPS! -1. they can look at those things already by inspecting you, or watching the fight, so you're already out of luck. 2. If you don't like it, don't download it! Maybe join a guild that doesn't use them (they do exist) instead of trying to force everyone to play the game YOU want. The galaxy doesn't revolve around you. #Addons make the game easymode for noobs. -If they are a noob they won't bother downloading the addon in the first place, and if they did they wouldn't know how to use it properly anyways. Finally if it DID make the game easymode they wouldn't be a noob anymore (which we all know doesn't happen) and suddenly the game is filled with people who actually know how to run a flashpoint. How is that a bad thing? If a game is only fun for you based on how hard it is to learn/play why aren't you playing Ninja Gaiden blindfolded? #Addons can be used to hack/cheat the game. -Yes, some can, but Bioware can simply ban the addon. This serves a second benefit since the time they save in not having to edit the game themselves they can use to fix other things like, say, bugs, or making more content. In a way addons actually help improve the game for everyone. In summary: If you like the game the way it is, great! This issue doesn't affect you since you could just not download anything and keep playing it the way it is. For the rest of us (and according to the polls, the majority of us) we'd like to play the game how we prefer, and who are you to say we can't? P.S. UI customization is already on it's way, so there's no need to keep going on about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DroidDestroyer Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I disagree.. what you call "shortcuts" were a blessing in disguise for some of us. The automatic mail opener for instance for WoW.. that was huge when you sold 250+ items per day. DBM for the win.. and i realize that this is a new game and i still have alot to learn.. but the one thing I hate for sure is the spellbars.. I wish i could move them.. You will be even before they allow mods. They have UI changes in the works to allow moving of bars, windows and resizing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0Xyal9eO64FycZDXJ6Yo263vT9TVvTz-U3B1FpYW1phyicL1f209bmDDhtg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Personally I can't wait till I'm able to move around the UI and customize it a lot more, however I don't see the harm in having a Combat Log, or even a DPS meter or Aggro Table so that people can manage it better and see who is or is not pulling their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Personally I can't wait till I'm able to move around the UI and customize it a lot more, however I don't see the harm in having a Combat Log, or even a DPS meter or Aggro Table so that people can manage it better and see who is or is not pulling their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litefire Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Limited Friend or Foe macros yes, anthing beyond vanity ui changes no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top. Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out. Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros. These should be top priority for the next patch. I disagree. Please keep these things from the game, BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 One thing that occurred to me is that this game's lack of mods or macros will force a whole generation of healers to learn how to heal again. which I find awesome. I want to heal, not have a computer do it for me. Why bother playing at that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdawg_seattle Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 which I find awesome. I want to heal, not have a computer do it for me. Why bother playing at that point? If you think that healing is automated in WoW, then you have little to no understanding of what it's like to heal in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's strange because i'm pretty much sure that most people claim WoW's drop in subs is due to changing focus from hardcore players to casual players. Don't see many people claiming Cata made the game more hardcore as far as i'm aware. No I'm pretty sure the 2 million happened during CATA and more people left due to Pandas and Pokemon ..ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think this about covers the anti-modders arguments. If I missed one lemme know and I'll update it. If you are against mods/addons, pick your argument below. #Macros/addons aren't needed. -That depends on your definition of 'need'. We're all playing this game (or any game) to have fun, and the more we can tailor the game to suit our individual play styles, the more enjoyment we'll all get out of it. If enjoying a game isn't important to you then why are you playing it at all? #Macros/addons break the game! -False! Addons don't provide any information not already available in the game, and macros cannot press buttons for you. They are so players can customize the information being presented to them in a way they prefer. #Addons make the game unfair! -How can something be unfair when it's available to everyone? #I don't have time to download addons/I don't know how! -If you have time to read this, you have time to download it. Don't have time to look at the settings for your new addon? Try it next time you're on a speeder path. Don't know how? You found this forum, it's not much harder than that. #I don't want to be forced to deal with people looking at my gearscore or DPS! -1. they can look at those things already by inspecting you, or watching the fight, so you're already out of luck. 2. If you don't like it, don't download it! Maybe join a guild that doesn't use them (they do exist) instead of trying to force everyone to play the game YOU want. The galaxy doesn't revolve around you. #Addons make the game easymode for noobs. -If they are a noob they won't bother downloading the addon in the first place, and if they did they wouldn't know how to use it properly anyways. Finally if it DID make the game easymode they wouldn't be a noob anymore (which we all know doesn't happen) and suddenly the game is filled with people who actually know how to run a flashpoint. How is that a bad thing? If a game is only fun for you based on how hard it is to learn/play why aren't you playing Ninja Gaiden blindfolded? #Addons can be used to hack/cheat the game. -Yes, some can, but Bioware can simply ban the addon. This serves a second benefit since the time they save in not having to edit the game themselves they can use to fix other things like, say, bugs, or making more content. In a way addons actually help improve the game for everyone. In summary: If you like the game the way it is, great! This issue doesn't affect you since you could just not download anything and keep playing it the way it is. For the rest of us (and according to the polls, the majority of us) we'd like to play the game how we prefer, and who are you to say we can't? P.S. UI customization is already on it's way, so there's no need to keep going on about it. Stop bumping threads just because you like the idea.. If a thread has been dead for like a day and is on page 5 don't go back and revive it... You'll say something bashing the anti modders and the hundreds of anti modders will post sayin you're wrong and this dumb thread will never go away! Edited February 2, 2012 by Mcfondles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 No I'm pretty sure the 2 million happened during CATA and more people left due to Pandas and Pokemon ..ha You do realise that Cata and MoP are regarded as casual friendly/focused as opposed to hardcore focused right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunklezhan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Limited Friend or Foe macros yes, anthing beyond vanity ui changes no. Totally Agree! Allow for speach macro's (not allowed for general chat) For group/raid use. Lets get away from automated combat shall we. Granted it makes life easier for clickers like myself since not everyone can control/shift/alt key this or that but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Totally Agree! Allow for speach macro's (not allowed for general chat) For group/raid use. Lets get away from automated combat shall we. Granted it makes life easier for clickers like myself since not everyone can control/shift/alt key this or that but... Who asked for automated combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebedelette Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Do want macros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orisai Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'd love to make ability macros like in WoW, when I used to bind reactive abilities like Overpower and Rune Strike to normal ones, instead of wasting quickbar slots on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragvakten Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I agree with this, I have found myself wanting to create several macros. The option of addons or mods will make swtor an even bigger hit, software designers taking time to create free software for your creation Bioware, now that is nothing short of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebedelette Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Do want macros. Also addons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razeriel Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Not sure if the game needs macros and addons which allow to play(win) more easy. In this situation some people will use it and others - not, and it would be a disbalance situatuon. Or everyone will be forced to use macros/addons to keep up wiht others. Personally, I don't want this kind of "improvement". However, the damage/heal meters would be welcome. It is always another mini-game, a challenge for a damage dealer to try to be the first in a flashpoint/raid. It adds to the interest of playing the game. Th UI addons? Well, if they only change the standard look of the interface, I suppose it would not hurt anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordkin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 there should be a way to compare the dmg/ healing done in a grp, this motivates peeps who want to top the meters and also shows us who is slacking in the grp, if 2 in 8 people r doing terrible at what they r supposed to do in a riad, and we r failing to down that boss cuz of them, i dont think it's right to waste 6 peoples time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'd love to make ability macros like in WoW, when I used to bind reactive abilities like Overpower and Rune Strike to normal ones, instead of wasting quickbar slots on them. That is exactly what the anti-macro faction is against. Now you've just automated those functions and require no attention to whether you use your overpower or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerro Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 That is exactly what the anti-macro faction is against. Now you've just automated those functions and require no attention to whether you use your overpower or not. Those kind of macros are allready in the game, if you have the funds to buy Razer Naga, a gaming keyboard, they have programmable buttons that will do exactly that and much more. Not having macros ingame will only benefit the player with better funds, make it fair to everyone with a desent macrosystem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison_Solo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Those kind of macros are allready in the game, if you have the funds to buy Razer Naga, a gaming keyboard, they have programmable buttons that will do exactly that and much more. Not having macros ingame will only benefit the player with better funds, make it fair to everyone with a desent macrosystem They may be in game but they are not condoned. The use of a gaming keyboard's macroing functions beyond simple keystrokes is against the EULA and can wind up getting these people banned. I have to be careful with this myself because I use a G15 Keyboard. EDIT: They will catch you too btw, I know a guy that used his third party software to bind a toggle jump key to prevent afk and used it in a personal instance and got suspended for a day for doing it. Edited February 6, 2012 by Harrison_Solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whillwynn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I agree, at least when it comes to (non-automated) macros. Each class in this game has lots of buttons, and some consolidation in one quickslot would be amazing to minimize UI clutter. Also, mouseover macros. Healing is functional here, but it's clunky. Having mouseover functionality and some basic macros (at least to tie off-GCD abilities to other abilities) would go a long way to streamlining play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNdoki Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They may be in game but they are not condoned. The use of a gaming keyboard's macroing functions beyond simple keystrokes is against the EULA and can wind up getting these people banned. I have to be careful with this myself because I use a G15 Keyboard. EDIT: They will catch you too btw, I know a guy that used his third party software to bind a toggle jump key to prevent afk and used it in a personal instance and got suspended for a day for doing it. third party software NOT a macro. Macros don't perform actions without input from the user. That's called a bot. Your friend was caught botting. There's a difference. Sorry but from what I've seen the anti-modding and anti-macro community is just grossly misinformed (as well as being the minority) and hell bent on trying to keep everyone down at their level, which is already not happening. Check page 3 for more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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