DarthVoyevoda Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If its too hard and can't handle it reroll. Nuff said. Stop trying to beat other specs and class with the amount of abilties you got or how many of them you press. Every class has its ups and downs thats mmos for you just enjoy what ever floats your boat and leave other people alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Really. This needs to stop. People keep talking about how they have to manage way more abilities then other classes..... Yeah right. Let me give you a hint. when I was level 25 on both my jugg and operative, i have twice if not MORE hotkey binds on my operative that I use consistently while I literally have maybe 7 keybinds I use on my jugg. And therein lies your misunderstanding, when people refer to Sith warriors being the hardest class they are refering to marauders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidenPryde Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Stop listing the abilities you have and list the abilities you commonly use (ie every fight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxxus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Stop listing the abilities you have and list the abilities you commonly use (ie every fight). Thank you. I hate people listing 30 abilties where 20 or so are situational, for pvp when they make a pve argument, etc. I play a marauder, and I know we use a lot of abilties and have some noticeable cons, but we don't need 30 keybinds to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I play a marauder, and I know we use a lot of abilties and have some noticeable cons, but we don't need 30 keybinds to play. I agree,the "pro" thing to do nowadays is to be the one that has the most keybinds...... it helps their epeen. When in reality nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliways Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For a Marauder I have a relatively small rotation: Level 50 Rage spec': - Force Charge - Battering Assualt - Force Crush - Pop Relic - Pop Stim - Force Scream - Force Smash - Then Spam Force Choke/Crush and Slams Then either Vicious Throw or Force Camo depending upon the outcome of the Opening. Rage spec has the simplest rotation. And you're leaving off TONS of abilities that you have to use situationally, or you aren't playing your marauder to its fullest, and you're going to die a lot in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliways Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 OP, do you have a 50 Marauder? No? Then that explains why you don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_pinko_grande Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Incidentally, to everyone saying that keeping Marauders complex will stop the class from being taken over by newbs, have you every actually taken a look at how many Marauders are running around your server? I can only speak for mine, but I swear like a third of the people I see on the Imperial Fleet are Maras. And considering that Bioware thinks we're complex enough to need simplification, I think it's safe to say that difficulty isn't any barrier to the unwashed masses joining our class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Your post didn't really back up the argument. You aren't using all of those abilities at all times, regardless of spec. edit - missed your comments, i'll remake this post. Savage Kick - Useless in pvp and on bosses, where it counts. You should still be using it. Deadly Throw - situational, not part of a proper rotation outside of pvp. It should absolutely be used in PvP, I think thats worthy of it getting a mention, no? Vicious Throw - an execute used for a small portion of the fight, with a 6 sec cd. Its still a short cd high hitting ability for cheap. You should be using it often. Assault - used when needed, some specs don't have to use as much(annihilation) "Used when needed"? Well...yeah. Disruption - situational If you want reasons to use it you can find plenty, both PvE and PvP. Stop mob heals/damaging attacks(full auto, knockbacks, etc). Crippling Slash - almost completely useless in most pve, pvp ability primarily. And quite important in PvP again. Force Scream - used if not annihilation, maybe by annihilation in pvp for range. Ravage - moving to spec based, annihilation uses this, but less frequently. Rupture - annihilation Vicious Slash - used outside of carnage, but most used by annihilation Deadly Saber/Obliterate - used by respective spec, both have cds. Annihlate/Massacre/Force Crush - used by respective spec. Smash - used for aoe or rage spec Sweeping Slash - used for aoe Depends on spec: Your post didn't really back up the argument. Regardless, I was less trying to back up an argument than present a clearer view of the tools marauders possess. I don't personally find this a complex or challenging class at all, but it certainly is more complex than arsenal merc, for example. Edited January 30, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Stop listing the abilities you have and list the abilities you commonly use (ie every fight). I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFerg Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've essentially leveled one of every archtype to around 25 or so, and I can honestly say that from my personal experience, none are more challenging or more satisfying than my juggernaut. The reasoning behind this is you have to engage every particular class completely differently, whereas on my sniper, or sorcerer, its generally the same. I also see WAY more useless warriors in pvp than other classes, because honestly they just need a little more experience to be useful with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 way i sort my bars out is i have 1 action bar for single-target 1 for aoe 1 for pvp and then 1 for mounts and buffs..alltho id like bartender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TekaruPrime Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Not the first to point out but... I don't think "easy/hard" is the same as "fewest/most key presses." at least when I'M complaining about the Marauder for example, i'm referring to how little damage I do compared to other classes AND how little damage I can take AND how few CC's or stuns I have AND how vulnerable I am to the other classes. PvP is HARD. PvE is HARD. not because I'm using 8 actions or 25 actions, I just get KILLED easily. I feel like the other (ranged) classes are full of CC's and stuns to KEEP ME AWAY from them - but ultimately that's just a big joke because even AT RANGE I'm not doing anything they should worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Incidentally, to everyone saying that keeping Marauders complex will stop the class from being taken over by newbs, have you every actually taken a look at how many Marauders are running around your server? I can only speak for mine, but I swear like a third of the people I see on the Imperial Fleet are Maras. And considering that Bioware thinks we're complex enough to need simplification, I think it's safe to say that difficulty isn't any barrier to the unwashed masses joining our class. In my opinion people play them because they have the best class story line in the game, I know when general chart sparks up on the subject they get my vote & i've played 6 out of the 8 at various levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckmann Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 [...] Playing it effectively though is another thing. [...]And when would someone choose to not play something effectively? Seriously, what the hell are you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selixx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna do my Sin: Stealth Force Speed Force Slow Saber Strike Thrash Maul Assassinate Lacerate Shock Force Lightning Discharge Jolt Whirlwind Overcharge Electrocute Recklessness Mind Control Mass Mind Control Guard Force Cloak Force Shroud Mind Trap Deflection Blackout Unbreakable Will (trinket) And that's not including spells that are not practical to cast with my build, like: Crushing Darkness And that's not including talents I have: Dark Ward Force Pull Wither By max level, I will also have, at the minimum: Spike Overcharge Saber Including Seethe, I have 30+ abilities hotkeyed on my Sin. I have WAAAY less on my Mara. Assault Battering Assault Massacre Obfuscate Vicious Throw Rupture Scream Deadly Throw Choke Retaliation Ravage Charge Crippling Slash Unleash Smash Disruption Gore Predation Bloodthirst Saber Ward Cloak of Pain Huttball Undying Rage Force Camo Sprint Pommel Strike Savage Kick Intimidating Roar Frenzy Berserk Relic 1 Relic 2 Adrenal Stim Medpack Disable Droid Unnatural Might Call on the Force All of those are keybinds that I use. 38 keybinds. That doesn't include my 3 different forms, my mount, fleet pass, and quick travel, which are all bound, but most of the time I just click. Edited January 31, 2012 by Selixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budizzle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Really. This needs to stop. People keep talking about how they have to manage way more abilities then other classes..... Yeah right. Let me give you a hint. when I was level 25 on both my jugg and operative, i have twice if not MORE hotkey binds on my operative that I use consistently while I literally have maybe 7 keybinds I use on my jugg. I dont even need to bind scrolls or anything past ERFCVT and middle mouse click. I laugh at how easy to it to play. Playing it effectively though is another thing. Juggs have massive threat generation for single target BUT their aoe is the worse. To make up for this, you must constantly witch targets to keep threat up if your allies are aoe pew pew moding everything. Right now I ma in love with the class but the community of the players needs to sit back and think hard about what they are saying. YES bounty hunters/troopers are broken as far as damage/threat is concerned. But assassins are in the same balance boat your in. You want to see skill vs effectiveness. Try being a operative that does more then sit back and try to heal efficiently. The class isn't necessarily "hard" to play. It's just the fact that even if you play it flawlessly -- which many of us do -- the results will still be grossly underwhelming in PVP. It's just the nature of being pure melee dps when every other class has avenues of knockback, CC, and escape that Warriors or Guardians do not have. All that said, my Marauder wrecks **** in pve. And really, that's mostly how they were designed. Which really really sucks for Marauders (and even Juggs to some extent) who are inclined to pvp, but c'est la vie. Edited January 31, 2012 by Budizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbokr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 level 25 stopped reading there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What is Shield Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxxus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Mara is terrible for hot keys I use 1-8 on my keyboard and 1-12 on my Razer naga mouse. In addition to this i also use shift 1-8. There are also a few abilities that I rarely use which I click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misv Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 28 keybinds on my lvl 43 marauder, pvp oriented though. that is 28 spells which I consistently use, excluding pots, sprint and buffs. Not that the amount of spells you use directly states how hard or easy it is to play a class. I haven't tried any other classes yet, so I wouldn't know anything about which class is the "hardest". I guess all classes are easy to play, but hard to master. Some classes might be more imbalanced than others, but we all know deep inside that most of the whine comes from rage because you just got owned. I know I rage everytime I get killed by operatives, in the heat of the moment I might say something like "Operatives are overpowered". but I have never played operative, what would I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TekaruPrime Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The class isn't necessarily "hard" to play. It's just the fact that even if you play it flawlessly -- which many of us do -- the results will still be grossly underwhelming in PVP. It's just the nature of being pure melee dps when every other class has avenues of knockback, CC, and escape that Warriors or Guardians do not have. All that said, my Marauder wrecks **** in pve. And really, that's mostly how they were designed. Which really really sucks for Marauders (and even Juggs to some extent) who are inclined to pvp, but c'est la vie. That's what I'm saying. the trade-off just isn't there right now. and until about lvl 30, unless you want to cry while doing PvE it's easier to out-level your content (doing PvP or space missions) and THEN go back and quest. now tell me that's true for other classes. oh wait, no it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessia Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Sith Juggernaut is the hardest. Unless every other class finds it impossible to do solo content 4-6 levels below them with full blue quality upgrades and epic saber mods without their healing companion. Quinn's healing is a band aid on a broken class. We take far too much damage in PvE that leads to 'drink up after every fight' unless we have our healer. I don't feel like a tank. Even as immortal spec unless I have a healer out. Your companion should be a matter of which you want to use and have in conversations with you, so making healer mandatory is stupid. I also want macros. So I can put sweeping slash and smash on the same key, along with sundering assault and the basic rage building slash so my entire bar isn't filled with short cooldowns that take more key binds than i'm willing to use. Using 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q E F C V B + Shifted Variants 24 Keybinds should be sufficient. As for the op player he's clearly lying. If he has twice as many abilities to use there wouldn't be enough quickslots for them to go in. Note: I'm level 38 and i'm complaining at how crap the class is to level. Not PvP. Even the MOBS are a real challenge when you don't pull off rotations like you're trying to do a raid. Edited January 31, 2012 by Alessia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManOSteal Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When i reach 50 this is what my hot bars will have in them. I have yet to decide which buttons they will fall on but i have a good idea. other than these bars I will have retaliation off to the side as it is less important at higher levels so long as I and the tank are both doing our jobs appropriately. The same can be said for savage kick and pommel strike. I may also move the buffs out of my hot bar and save that for clicking and throw things like intimidating roar, smash, and crippling slash on the hot bar. I am Carnage spec. Offense 7 (these are all I really need mid combat if nothing goes wrong): Force Charge Assault Battering assault Gore Massacre Force Scream Ravage Defense 6 (things always go wrong): Saber Ward Cloak of Pain Obfuscate Undying Rage Unleash Disruption Buffs 3: Bloodthirst Predation Berserk Ranged 3 (you will be knocked back) Deadly Throw Vicious Throw Force Choke Items 5 Med Pack Stim Adreanal Relic Relic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogypop Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sith Juggernaut is the hardest. Unless every other class finds it impossible to do solo content 4-6 levels below them with full blue quality upgrades and epic saber mods without their healing companion. Quinn's healing is a band aid on a broken class. We take far too much damage in PvE that leads to 'drink up after every fight' unless we have our healer. I don't feel like a tank. Even as immortal spec unless I have a healer out. Your companion should be a matter of which you want to use and have in conversations with you, so making healer mandatory is stupid. You must be joking. I leveled all the way to 50 as immortal using Vette/Jaesa, and I sure as **** wasn't 4+ levels above the content (2 levels below at times, but that's a different issue). Are there issues with SW/JK? ofc there is, but the stuff you're saying is just you complaining about being bad. The issues with the class that should be talked about is that it's a lot harder to tank multiple targets then it is for other classes. And that you are somewhat below average in pvp (even more true with marauder AC imo). They should decrease the amount of keybinds a bit, it can be a bit much at times when you are trying to stick to someone in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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