Cyndelx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Where is that written? Sorry I do not agree at all with this statement. If that is the case then 3 hearlers in a match would eliminate nearly all dps. A healer should be able to out heal a tank attempting to beat them down. They should not be able to out heal the best dps classes in the game which most times I think you can. What is the point of a healer than? Might as well dps and help kill then. And you don't think we should be able to heal through 1 dps. Give me a break. And no most of the times healers can't tank one competent dps. Our casted heals basically have a 4 second window to be interrupted thanks to the fail animation-ability sync(heals don't go off until the animation is complete, even though the cast bar has long been finished). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoriesofprey Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The Republic on my server tend to run pre-mades with two healers. In addition, they've got more pug healers in general. They work by protecting each other and focusing the hell out of anyone who attacks them. It seems to work well. I've yet to see a pug group take them down. Essentially, I believe the complaints from healers who aren't Medicine/Sawbones are the result of a lack of teamwork. Get a tank and a dps or two who are dedicated to working hand in hand with you, and it's the difference between wins and losses. An organized team with more healers usually wins. That seems pretty useful, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quibbling Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A lot of talk by players about how things should or shouldn't be when it comes to pvp healing, but does anyone know what is the developers intent? With how unpolished the end game pvp system seems right now (raid frames inaccurate, ilum terrible, frustrating pvp reward system), it's possible that the pvp was very low on the priority for launch day readiness - such that perhaps end game pvp may be far off from what is intended. I just want to know what the developers think about the current state of pvp and where they plan to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Are you really going to stand here and act like 1 DPS can kill you? I've gone Sawbones, with mostly dps gear I might add, and staying up vs 1 DPS isn't an issue. One of the top DPS operatives on my server spent the entire match trying to focus me down, but he couldn't get me past the <30% insta heal etc mark. My point here is not to brag, or say you suck, but to ask you to look into the fights a little more. I'd be willing to bet that you're not really dying to that 1 dps (if you're as good as you say), but likely dying to 2 or more. You shouldn't have any problem keeping people up against 1 DPS, but that is never the case in WZ's. You're never alone, and neither are they. If you start getting focused by a melee, run him into the middle of your team. If you get focused by ranged dps, LoS them. If you're getting focus'd by 2 DPS then you are toast, as you should be since it's 2v1, unless you have a second healer, a DPS to peel them off, or a tank to guard/taunt. I'm not the best sorc player in the world but when healing against a bad opponent I can keep myself up no problem and toss a few heals on teammates. Against a competant player I'll be pushed onto my heels and forced to start LoS'ing and healing only myself to stay alive, no heals on teammates. Against a good player I'll die. I have no issues if I get outplayed and died, it's the simple problem that if one competent person comes up and goes full damage on me and doesn't care about CC/interrupts I will struggle to keep myself alive and have no ability to heal my teammates. I could rely on guard or teammates peeling but that person attacking me requires no teamwork. The good players that use interrupts and CC and kill me are fine because they specifically counter what I'm doing rather than just facerolling on their keyboard. The key distinction is having to counter people requires some semblance of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As a Dev once said "healing is ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever", you do know that Healers do decent DPS also... you don't have to stand there spamming heals all day... Persaonly I would like to see healing completly gone from Warfronts and just let Healers do more damage. one of the greatest pvp games is Counter Strike and guess what no Healers.... True one healer on a team is not OP, but when you get 3-4 healers on a team especially sorc's / sages it's near impossible to kill anyone even with focus fire.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As a Dev once said "healing is ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever", you do know that Healers do decent DPS also... you don't have to stand there spamming heals all day... Persaonly I would like to see healing completly gone from Warfronts and just let Healers do more damage. one of the greatest pvp games is Counter Strike and guess what no Healers.... True one healer on a team is not OP, but when you get 3-4 healers on a team especially sorc's / sages it's near impossible to kill anyone even with focus fire.. First, healers do not do decent DPS. Compared to a full specced DPS, an equally geared healer fully specced for healing does CRAP DPS in comparison. Crap as in maybe ~15% of the damage given the same DPS time. If healing is completely gone from WZs, there will be no need for healers to do more damage, because there would be no need for healers to exist. Just be DPS spec so we can have even less variations in of class/specs in WZs. I agree with what the Dev said, and our ability to "extend someone's life" is limited by our resources (heat, energy, force). By the nature of those resources, you won't be able to keep someone up against 2-3 DPS for more than a short amount of time. And that is with free cast. With the current state of the trauma debuff, as long as there is a good DPS on the healer (ONE GOOD DPS), that healer will be unable to dish out more than marginal heals at his/her teammates, which can be easily taken out by the rest of the enemy team. And bringing a first person shooter game into this is just... say what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrias Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) As a healer, I have to rely on one thing more than aught else: I have to rely on the opposing team being filled with dimwits who leave me alone. Otherwise they'll see I'm a healer and burst me down. I like to think I'm a reasonable healer, but even with ~9.5% expertise, I don't stand a chance against any half-decently played DPS class. So yay. I have to rely on 8 people being bad players to do well. That's not in the slightest bit tedious. PS. I don't mind dieing because I'm Zerged. That's par for the course for any class. But I do mind that no amount of skill can save you from ONE good DPS class, or from being effectively locked down by a mediocre one. I often feel like if I just re-specced to DPS, I could do a good deal more for my group than I do as a healer. And for all that people say that they need to make sure Healing isn't over-powered... well, they should also make sure the opposite isn't true as well. Edited January 31, 2012 by Tyrias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadenp Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I am a lvl 50 Scoundrel healer. And I also think we should have been protection against CCs and Interrupts, and maybe a bit faster regen. But I find that managing your energy is not as hard as some say. On 2 upper hand, I usually cycle Underworld Medicine and Emergency Medpac. With my HoT constantly on 1 or 2 that get the most dmg. Only using Kolto Pack when energy is high and life is low. I find that with that cycle, my energy lasts very long and with cool head, i can heal in heated battles for extended periods of time. Also with the Defense screen and in cover, I can resist enough dmg to heal myself and 1 others for long enough for a dps to help me. (If team is clueless or other team decide to target me I die) Only think I hate is the interrupts and CCs. Which render me totally inefficient. Main problem class is Sorcs, as they have too many CCs and interrupts. I say nerf them. Or have a anti-CC/interrupt buff that grows larger the more you get cc-ed/interrupted. Also allow Defense Screen a percentage of lets say 25% to stop CCs/Interrupts. But I also say the Sage healers do more healing then us. Only upside for scoundrel is mobility. Edited January 31, 2012 by gadenp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 First, healers do not do decent DPS. Compared to a full specced DPS, an equally geared healer fully specced for healing does CRAP DPS in comparison. Crap as in maybe ~15% of the damage given the same DPS time. If healing is completely gone from WZs, there will be no need for healers to do more damage, because there would be no need for healers to exist. Just be DPS spec so we can have even less variations in of class/specs in WZs. I agree with what the Dev said, and our ability to "extend someone's life" is limited by our resources (heat, energy, force). By the nature of those resources, you won't be able to keep someone up against 2-3 DPS for more than a short amount of time. And that is with free cast. With the current state of the trauma debuff, as long as there is a good DPS on the healer (ONE GOOD DPS), that healer will be unable to dish out more than marginal heals at his/her teammates, which can be easily taken out by the rest of the enemy team. And bringing a first person shooter game into this is just... say what? When we stop seeing Sorc's / Sags doing 400k+ heals in warfronts then I'll listen to you guys about the healing debuff not being fair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yalingto Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah I am a 57 valor rank operative, I can at most get around 450k healing in a good WZ. I notice I can go out of energy really fast and my activation speeds are way to slow for such high burst PvP action. I rely too much on my Tactical Advantages and surgical probes which either I am hoping i get from my HoTs or do a long cast. Not only that, I also feel way to vulnerable while healing and guard is always required. I think some things that would really help us out mechanically were to 1. Make diagnostic scan castable while moving and make it that if it crits it gives 1 TA on a 20 second cooldown. 2. Increase amount of damage absorbed by shield probe and make its duration longer. 3. Give us a skill to make one of our casts shortened by half the time or something to give us quicker activation so that we can start healing faster. These are just some thoughts though, I really would like to see something to improve Diagnostic Scan to add more mobility to my healing abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As a healer, I have to rely on one thing more than aught else: I have to rely on the opposing team being filled with dimwits who leave me alone. Otherwise they'll see I'm a healer and burst me down. I like to think I'm a reasonable healer, but even with ~9.5% expertise, I don't stand a chance against any half-decently played DPS class. So yay. I have to rely on 8 people being bad players to do well. That's not in the slightest bit tedious. PS. I don't mind dieing because I'm Zerged. That's par for the course for any class. But I do mind that no amount of skill can save you from ONE good DPS class, or from being effectively locked down by a mediocre one. I often feel like if I just re-specced to DPS, I could do a good deal more for my group than I do as a healer. And for all that people say that they need to make sure Healing isn't over-powered... well, they should also make sure the opposite isn't true as well. Your talking about if your the ONLY healer in the group, when you get 3-4 healers it's becomes a joke, 2-3 people can't even focus fire a healer down when thre are 2 other healers spamming on him... Also your arguments are if all warfronts are 8 man premades with everyone talking to each on vent, there not so 90% of the time it's hard to get people to focus fire on anyone... The few times they do focus fire on a healer the healer runs into the forums and qq's that his heals are not strong enough... (shakes head) My gunslinger goes down in seconds, true i do really good dps but only if nobody see me, just like a healer, yet you don't see me QQ"ing that gunslingers need more armor or stronger dps to make up for our extreme squishiness.. If healers become like healers in Aion (God like) then pvp will die really fast.... I'm sick of healers thinking they should be able to keep EVERYONE up and do more healing then what the entire other team can do in DPS... and thats basically what it comes down to... I don't know how many times I've been in Warfronts against 3-4 healers on a team and we can't kill a single person... If the other team is stacked with Healers it's game over for the other side.... plain and simple.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When we stop seeing Sorc's / Sags doing 400k+ heals in warfronts then I'll listen to you guys about the healing debuff not being fair... When I stop seeing people do 300-500K DPS each, i'll stop healing for 400k+ heals. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah I am a 57 valor rank operative, I can at most get around 450k healing in a good WZ. I notice I can go out of energy really fast and my activation speeds are way to slow for such high burst PvP action. . your doing 450k healing in warfronts and your complaining thats not enough?!? holy crap whats wrong with you guys, ya lets just make the game even more unbalanced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Mercenary / Commando and Sage / Sorceror healers are nearly unkillable under the effects of guard. Operatives / Scoundrels just got shafted to be honest. They need more mobility and CC than the other two because they dont have a barrier and don't have the built in defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Your talking about if your the ONLY healer in the group, when you get 3-4 healers it's becomes a joke, 2-3 people can't even focus fire a healer down when thre are 2 other healers spamming on him... Omg, 2-3 DPS can't take down 3 healers? 2 being free casting? NO ****. Working as intended. The majority of the games simply do not have 3-4 healers on a team. In those rare events, deal with it. It's like saying you can take 9 healers and 1 tank into a raid and have the tank never die against a super power DPS boss. It's a trade off, if you have half a team of healers, you're going to have crap DPS against the other team, which can probably out heal your dps with just 1 or 2 healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Mercenary / Commando and Sage / Sorceror healers are nearly unkillable under the effects of guard. Operatives / Scoundrels just got shafted to be honest. They need more mobility and CC than the other two because they dont have a barrier and don't have the built in defense. last time i checked guard is not our spell. nerf guard instead of ************ about healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When I stop seeing people do 300-500K DPS each, i'll stop healing for 400k+ heals. Lol. Healing is not suppose to equal DPS, thus the statement from the Dev's that healing is only ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever.. yet Healers seem to think they should put out as much healing as people do DPS, if thats the case then nobody would ever die... If you can't hack that fact then roll a DPS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Healing is not suppose to equal DPS, thus the statement from the Dev's that healing is only ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever.. yet Healers seem to think they should put out as much healing as people do DPS, if thats the case then nobody would ever die... If you can't hack that fact then roll a DPS... Your absolutely correct, 4 burst dps will ruin 3 burst dps + heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Omg, 2-3 DPS can't take down 3 healers? 2 being free casting? NO ****. Working as intended. The majority of the games simply do not have 3-4 healers on a team. In those rare events, deal with it. It's like saying you can take 9 healers and 1 tank into a raid and have the tank never die against a super power DPS boss. It's a trade off, if you have half a team of healers, you're going to have crap DPS against the other team, which can probably out heal your dps with just 1 or 2 healers. It's not that rare and unlike the myth healers like to claim, healers do good DPS, true not as good as a gunslinger but then again a gunslinger can't heal himself, my Agent could dish out some good DPS numbers even being in the Healing tree, the trade off was no energy to heal with... So save me the whole bit how week healers are in DPS'ing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Your absolutely correct, 4 burst dps will ruin 3 burst dps + heals. Only if there smart enough to burst the healer down first, other wise they will lose... throw a tank in the mix and the 4 burst dps'ers really lose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Healing is not suppose to equal DPS, thus the statement from the Dev's that healing is only ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever.. yet Healers seem to think they should put out as much healing as people do DPS, if thats the case then nobody would ever die... If you can't hack that fact then roll a DPS... and the majority of the games are not 1:1 dps:healer. total healing/dps done also has little bearing on the distribution of those healing/damages, and lends no proof to whether one dps is killing one healer. you're complaining about the total healing done by healers, of which a nice chunk is through AoE healing. I am simply pointing out the flaw in your "logic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsnboards Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Also I don't know why people pick on sorceror healing, its not very good either. Everytime I see a trooper healer in my WZ he has pretty much doubled any other healers numbers. And don't take this as a nerf troopers. I think they are fine and other healing should be brought up to them. Thank god we have another person who isn't all for starting another race to the bottom. Bring other things up to par, dont gimp, power up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's not that rare and unlike the myth healers like to claim, healers do good DPS, true not as good as a gunslinger but then again a gunslinger can't heal himself, my Agent could dish out some good DPS numbers even being in the Healing tree, the trade off was no energy to heal with... So save me the whole bit how week healers are in DPS'ing... stop claiming healers can do good dps. they do about 15-20% of their dps specced mirror. And that also means they are not healing, thus giving up what they're good at for what they're bad at. It's viable only in situations to finish someone off, or where there are no healing pressure. Even then dps is simply not good. There is a reason why when a "healer" claims they can do dps and post a screen shot on it, it's usually 150K/150K doing both, while 50K/400K doing helaing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadenp Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you play a healer, you cannot just heal I find. You must annoy, kite, defend. Tank and DPS classes can tend to forget to defend a point when in hectic fight so usually up to healer to protect the point. As a Scoundrel. I shooting, Grenade and fly by my point like crazy to protect it. In fact a scoundrel healer can defend a point alone somewhat long enough for a none noob team to rush a few people to help in the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Healing is not suppose to equal DPS, thus the statement from the Dev's that healing is only ment to extend someone's life not make them live forever.. yet Healers seem to think they should put out as much healing as people do DPS, if thats the case then nobody would ever die... If you can't hack that fact then roll a DPS... Repeatedly healing yourself should exactly equal the damage done of a single DPS class trying to kill you. Ideally, in that situation you both run out of resources at the same time, and you both still have full health. This, then, becomes a game of who can use their CC, defensive cooldowns, and positioning (in ranged versus melee fights, anyway) to greater advantage. Keep in mind, this is "emergency" or "burst" healing, versus "burst" damage. The healer should not be able to indefinitely heal at the same rate as a DPS can deal burst damage. That is the mistake other games make. Healers can top up a player being beaten down by 2 or 3 opponents, and healers become the most important part of PvP. Create a system where 1 healer exactly equals 1 DPS, and you achieve balance. -Macheath. Edited January 31, 2012 by Macheath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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