State of PvP Healing - Lvl 50 Only

[Sprigum]

Its the class. You don't have the survivability or ammo conservation commandos have or the raw output that sages have.

 

I guess its good that other healers are more successful.

 

Hopefully they'll do something with us sooner rather than later.

 

I'm not one to reroll, so I guess I'll just have to suck it up.

 

I don't feel completely worthless, but there are moments when I just throw my hands in the air: \

[Wattser]

I have been healing in PvP for a while as an Operative and find it to be quiet a challenge and frustrating at times. Our lag behind other healers I chalk up to a few things:

-Slow HoT ticks

-Terrible return on the Power stat increasing heal(From my math/testing on Surgical Probe +565 power = +56hp to the heal that's .1hp per power)

-Reliance on a single ability (Kolto Injection)

 

Fixes IMO:

- Add to Medical Therapy: Decreases duration of Kolto Probe by 3 seconds per point(allowing the same amount healed but at a faster interval, So instead of a tick every 3 seconds you would get a tick every 2 seconds. PS non crit it ticks for about 300ish depending on how your gear is slotted.)

-Make power more of an impact on heal amount(maybe go from 1 power = .1hp to 1 power =.25hp

- Add to Med Shield: Cannot be interrupted while shield is active.(Shield lasts for 15seconds or until it absorbs it amount, the interrupt immunity would be be brought down before the 15seconds is up if the shield is brought down.

 

 

I think small changes like that would help an Operative stay in the running of a good pvp healer without going overboard.

And as for the whole Heals shouldn't be greater than DPS argument. It should solely depend on who the DPS is attacking. Heals > DPS(hitting a Tank) Yes, Heals > DPS on another DPS or healer should be even. Point being if you full DPS me and all I do is heal, yes I should not die(if you don't use CC at all or wisely), but also I cannot hurt you. If I start to DPS you I should fall behind on heals and die if not done perfectly. Heals vs any 2 dps: heals should be less making target taking damage die or if tank have to use big defensive cool downs. There are easy ways to beat every healer 1v1, we each have a weakness, however that weakness requires more than spamming dps skills, so dont complain if you cant burn a healer down without using smart CC.

[SheepishOne]

I'm not overly familiar with the nuances of the class, maybe you could elaborate on that for me.

 

If a Commando/Merc tried to straight burst heal we'd top out on heat just as fast--4 to 5 casts of Rapid Scan. Our heat dissipation comes from a few efficiency talents/abilities and smart spacing of these in our rotations.

 

Healing Filler (0 heat, GCD abilities):

Emergency Scan (mid range instant heal, 21s CD)

Rapid Shots (+Tech Healing, must be in healing stance, cannot target self)

Kolto Shell (Reactive HoT, very weak)

 

Heat Management:

Thermal Sensor Override (removes heat cost from next ability)

Vent Heat (can be improved in heal tree)

 

Our shield does make us immune to interrupts as long as it's specced (Bodyguard tree). This 12-15 second every 2 min. immunity is arguably fair since Commandos/Mercs are the only classes in the game that have no interrupt. This isn't really a problem for healers, but it's a major weakness for DPS Mercs/Commandos.

Edited January 30, 2012 by SheepishOne

[Xippin]

Also I don't know why people pick on sorceror healing, its not very good either. Everytime I see a trooper healer in my WZ he has pretty much doubled any other healers numbers. And don't take this as a nerf troopers. I think they are fine and other healing should be brought up to them.

 

Sorc is used because of their escape mechanics.

 

Sorcs/Sages have several utilitarian abilities to help them survive.

Stun

Root

Snare

Knockback

Sprint

Bubble on short cooldown (which also augments their healing better then a HoT does)

Whirlwind/Force Lift

 

While Op/Scoundrals get

Mez (requires melee range)

Stun (requires melee range)

Snare (requires melee range)

Vanish (reduces healing received by 100% for 10 seconds, which is horrible being as it's an escape which means you are probably low health when using it, and once used popping out of stealth to heal team is suicide)

 

Merc/Commando

Knockback

Mez

Stun

blue bubble (immunity to interrupt as well as reducing damage)

 

On top of that, the sorc's AoE healing is far superior to the Op/Scoundrals as on a CRIT WITHOUT trauma, my kolto cloud will hit for 900-1k on 4 people. While the Sorc's will initially crit for 1700+ and hits an unlimited number of people within the circle.

 

The energy problem results from the HoT from an Op/Scoundral costing 15 energy per stack, and it requires 2 stacks to be remotely effective (one stack will heal for about 300 every 3 seconds, 2 stacks will heal for about 700 every 3 seconds) Which also results in 2 GCD's to HoT 1 person. Kolto Cloud (AoE heal) costs 30 energy which puts you dangerously close to giving up your energy regen.

 

Ops/Scoundrals are by FAR the worst healer in the game, we can heal pve...but even then our healing is nothing in comparison to the other two. And in PvP, our lack of utility, horrible energy mechanic combined with poorly thought out HoT stacking combined with trauma trivialises us. Even with guard, we can't keep our team up while trying to keep ourselves up since we have no way of keeping out of range of anyone or avoiding the interrupts.

 

My solution is as such:

 

Allow Alacrity to affect our HoT's. What this would do is allow more tic's for the duration and increase the healing output of the HoT's which we seem to be so reliant on. This would boost the healing output of our AoE heal as well as our single target HoT.

 

Reduce the energy consumption of our single target HoT from 15 down to 7.

 

Current energy is 105 if full champion. So, in effect the current system looks like this...

We regenerate 6 Energy every second when > 60 energy.

HoT 4 people @ 15 Energy

HoT @ Target 1 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 18 Energy gained, 3 Seconds Elapsed

93 Energy

HoT @ Target 2 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 18 Energy gained, 6 Seconds Elapsed

81 Energy

HoT @ Target 3 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 18 Energy gained, 9 Seconds Elapsed

69 Energy

HoT @ Target 4 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 18 Energy gained, 12 Seconds Elapsed

57 Energy

 

Now, I've only applied my HoT, which is healing for 600-700 per tic to 4 out of the 8 team members and i'm at the cusp of losing my energy regen. I have 2 options, reduce my healing output, or blow all my energy and use Cool Head (regains 66 energy on a 2 min cooldown) and hope our dps is better then theirs. Lets see what happens if I continue to HoT the other 4 team members.

 

HoT @ Target 5 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 15 Energy gained, 15 Seconds Elapsed

42 Energy

HoT @ Target 6 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 15 Energy gained, 18 Seconds Elapsed

27 Energy

HoT @ Target 7 x 2: 30 Energy spent, 12 Energy Gained, 21 Seconds Elapsed

9 Energy

 

At this point, I can NOT heal the 8th person, by simply trying to HoT an entire ops group..it takes 21 seconds to do 7 of the 8 people, at which point, most of those I've already HoT'd are dead/dieing and my energy is blown. How is this a smart system, the HoT's obviously aren't worth using. The only heal this leaves for me to use is my instant cast energy free heal which relies on Advantage (proc) to use. And it only heals for about 1200-1500 and crits for 2k. Show me ONE class that can't consistantly hit for 2k+ because my Jedi Guardian has been doing it since level 12 in WZ's.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Xippin

[KraithFjorn]

Classes should not exist that can out DPS dedicated healing on a single target, otherwise healers have no reason to exist in game. This hasn't been a problem thus far, but a geared Sorc/Sage/BH/Trooper DPS will force me to LOS them, there is no way for me to overcome the amount of DMG these classes can dish out, even just a single one.

 

As a lethality sniper w/roughly 540 expertise (to give you an idea, w/this class/spec I can frequently achieve top damage, usually getting >300k), I rarely out damage the amount of healing healers do, even in 1v1s. In fact, it usually involves using a relic or adrenal to get the job done. Mind you, this is when they haven't cleansed my Dots.

 

Granted, I haven't encountered very many operative healers, so your class very well may have gotten the short end of the stick. In fact, the vast majority of healers I encounter are (surprise surprise) sorcerers, so it could just be specific to them.

 

Regardless, it makes sympathizing with healers woes difficult on my part.

[Xippin]

As a lethality sniper w/roughly 540 expertise (to give you an idea, w/this class/spec I can frequently achieve top damage, usually getting >300k), I rarely out damage the amount of healing healers do, even in 1v1s. In fact, it usually involves using a relic or adrenal to get the job done. Mind you, this is when they haven't cleansed my Dots.

 

Granted, I haven't encountered very many operative healers, so your class very well may have gotten the short end of the stick. In fact, the vast majority of healers I encounter are (surprise surprise) sorcerers, so it could just be specific to them.

 

Regardless, it makes sympathizing with healers woes difficult on my part.

 

You lack sympathy because you use a DoT spec which has NO burst and relies on abilities not being cleansed. Currently Lethality/Dirty Fighting is the absolute worst choice for pvp you can possibly have.

[Fafryd]

A geared healer is very hard to kill. Between trying to DPS them and doing interupts, you run out of attacking resources too. If the healer gets off any heals, the DPS is usually out of steam. Add guard to that mix and trying to take down a healer can be extremely frustrating. Edited January 30, 2012 by Fafryd

[Rogmar]

Healers are fine in PvP. 2 Good healers on the team = auto win. Edited January 30, 2012 by Rogmar

[Bigpapascuap]

r61 sorc healer with mixed BM/Champ gear here...

 

First off, I have to agree that PvP Healing needs to be adjusted somehow.

 

As far as class balance, I don't feel any body has or will (or can?) bring up a fair comparison between the classes. There was an attempt, but it left out HUGE things like 'evasion' a 3 second damage reduce cool down (1min?). In addition to that, damage reduction from armor... the whole 'stealth' thing, and of course resource mechanics make it a mess. Talents like the trooper/bh shield, the operative/smuggler talent that re-grants tactical advantage on low-health targets, and sorc talents that allow the shield to be used more often make things even nastier.

 

Something else, the SWTOR community sometimes seems to miss is that 'Guard' does not straight up reduce damage taken by 50%. Sure it reduces the overall damage taken by a bit, but the damage doesn't just disappear... it is shared by another player who will eventually need healing as well.

 

Trauma was (I believe officially) mentioned as a tool for the developers to use to help them efficiently balance healing in PvP without mucking about in PvE. I think what needs to happen most is the developers / whoever is in charge of the PvP situation needs to pick a goal and work towards it.

 

Biggest problem is, that I am positive anybody that has healed for a while at 50 (in both premades / pugs) is that player skill level varies drastically.

 

I would definitely say that when taking into account decent players of equal gear, healers need help. A decent player, in a useful spec can easily 'lock down' a healer if not kill them. If a Healer can be put in this situation (Where they can pretty much barely keep themselves alive, and are losing resource and cool downs (if they're class even has them) ) then they become extremely weak overall. I would argue that the situation is even worse than this against skilled and geared DPS.

 

Unfortunately, against subpar players... healing can easily carry a match/battle to victory. Increasing the effectiveness of healing will make it even more of a game-changer when competing against players who play and/or are geared poorly. (The problem is that they pay for the game too)

 

As much as 'reduce trauma to 15%' or w/e might make some people happy, there are other problems that I think need to be improved first.

 

Healing Stats / Itemization. Maybe healing PvP gear should have more endurance, increased armor, or sadly expertise. Something solely aimed at survivability. If a DPS can slowly 1v1 a healer down, that may be OK. Maybe that trip from full HP to Dead just needs to be longer.

 

Maybe trauma needs to be a stacking debuff. Rather than being 30% the entire duration of combat, let it be something like:

 

Trauma: Damaging player attacks reduce an enemy player's healing received by 3%, lasts 8 seconds and stacks up to 10 times. Effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

Players being attacked will slowly over 30 seconds receive the original debuff. If a player avoids damage for 8 seconds, they drop the debuff and start fresh.

[Lorise]

r61 sorc healer with mixed BM/Champ gear here...

 

First off, I have to agree that PvP Healing needs to be adjusted somehow.

 

As far as class balance, I don't feel any body has or will (or can?) bring up a fair comparison between the classes. There was an attempt, but it left out HUGE things like 'evasion' a 3 second damage reduce cool down (1min?). In addition to that, damage reduction from armor... the whole 'stealth' thing, and of course resource mechanics make it a mess. Talents like the trooper/bh shield, the operative/smuggler talent that re-grants tactical advantage on low-health targets, and sorc talents that allow the shield to be used more often make things even nastier.

 

Something else, the SWTOR community sometimes seems to miss is that 'Guard' does not straight up reduce damage taken by 50%. Sure it reduces the overall damage taken by a bit, but the damage doesn't just disappear... it is shared by another player who will eventually need healing as well.

 

Trauma was (I believe officially) mentioned as a tool for the developers to use to help them efficiently balance healing in PvP without mucking about in PvE. I think what needs to happen most is the developers / whoever is in charge of the PvP situation needs to pick a goal and work towards it.

 

Biggest problem is, that I am positive anybody that has healed for a while at 50 (in both premades / pugs) is that player skill level varies drastically.

 

I would definitely say that when taking into account decent players of equal gear, healers need help. A decent player, in a useful spec can easily 'lock down' a healer if not kill them. If a Healer can be put in this situation (Where they can pretty much barely keep themselves alive, and are losing resource and cool downs (if they're class even has them) ) then they become extremely weak overall. I would argue that the situation is even worse than this against skilled and geared DPS.

 

Unfortunately, against subpar players... healing can easily carry a match/battle to victory. Increasing the effectiveness of healing will make it even more of a game-changer when competing against players who play and/or are geared poorly. (The problem is that they pay for the game too)

 

As much as 'reduce trauma to 15%' or w/e might make some people happy, there are other problems that I think need to be improved first.

 

Healing Stats / Itemization. Maybe healing PvP gear should have more endurance, increased armor, or sadly expertise. Something solely aimed at survivability. If a DPS can slowly 1v1 a healer down, that may be OK. Maybe that trip from full HP to Dead just needs to be longer.

 

Maybe trauma needs to be a stacking debuff. Rather than being 30% the entire duration of combat, let it be something like:

 

Trauma: Damaging player attacks reduce an enemy player's healing received by 3%, lasts 8 seconds and stacks up to 10 times. Effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

Players being attacked will slowly over 30 seconds receive the original debuff. If a player avoids damage for 8 seconds, they drop the debuff and start fresh.

 

I have to agree with everything you said. I don't know if you know of me, but I'm a member of AST, republic side on Port Nowhere; where Animosity is on. My character's name is Lorfang, a commando. I kill anyone in your guild on sight (sorry to say, but due to your camping of some of my guildies on Voss one night...). But, putting that aside...

 

I have been a healer for most of this game. Computer specs play a huge part in gameplay. When I was on a better computer over Winter break, I would not die; ever. Now that I am on my computer... Gameplay suffers greatly. My abilities with activation times take twice as long. Add that to the other healing mitigations due to PvP, and I am therefore not a viable healer.

 

I have respecced and have gone Gunnery. I can take almost anyone from 100% to below 50% in about 5 seconds. But, once that burst is done, I either have to use Steady Aim or spam Grav Round to apply decent damage for the next 15 seconds.

 

What I see is that Sorcs are a more viable healer if properly protected (from tanks and their dps comrades). Its all because of that bubble (an instant heal even if the target has full health), CC, interrupts, and force sprint.

 

Not having any interrupts as a commando is very draining when trying to kill a healer. As stated before, commandos have 2 CC that can be used every minute. If specced for it, commandos have 2 knock backs; stock strike and concussive round. But mind you... ALL OF THESE add to the target's resolve bar, and then stop being effective.

 

Healing does need to be adjusted, not as an upgrade or downgrade across the board; but in the areas needed. I have seen sorcs stay alive, without a guard with 3 dps (counting myself and 2 great playing guildies). Those sorcs were using the terrain to LoS us (which is smart), but by having them CCed, and still not able to burn them down fast enough is a bit ridiculous...

 

For now, I see dps being more viable in pvp than healers (especially on a subpar computer system). My guild sees this too, so we're composed of tanks and dps. Better to drop em dead faster than they can drop any of us (whom are guarded).

[Balsha]

First of all, i have no idea about the state of healing operatives

 

But, since this thread slowly evolved into "healing in PvP" here are my 2 creds.

 

Healing is still strong in swtor. Is it less strong than in other MMO games? Yes, and thank god it is.

 

The thing is, in a perfect world, choosing a class should not make you a more valuable asset to your team based on that class alone. Healers are more valuable just by being healers and the thing is that people are so used to it that they consider it a normal state of things.

 

I wish to enter a warzone and not have to scout out specifically for healers to kill. I want to scan the battlefield for good players and decide who i have to take down first. As long as there are multiple healers present, you cannot take down anyone else. So, i am being forced to go on healers.

 

Why am i being forced to attack healers? Why are they more valuable than others?

 

I am hoping one day i will hear "You are not and they are not" and feel it ring true.

 

 

 

P.S

 

With all that said, healing operatives are easier to kill than sorcs and mercs. This coming from PT pyro perspective.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Balsha

[Darth_Eclipses]

I'm merely trying ascertain whether its my class that lacks at the top end of the spectrum or the Healer archetype in general.

 

It's not (just) your class - I'd say it's the archetype in general but I honestly don't believe Trooper/BH healers lack for very much. The only thing they lack for is a battle rez and in terms of the grand scheme of PvP that's neither here nor there.

 

Currently r60 Sorc healer and the ability to burst sorc healers down is crazy.

 

Static Barrier/Force Armor only adsorbs ~3100 dmg even when talented to adsorb 20% more. This is on a 20 second (17 with 2set bonus) cd.

 

One shock/project crit from a properly geared assassin/shadow will remove that. Buffed with Recklessness and or Voltaic it will do even more. Everyone wants to talk about our utility, but against certain classes it's negated very easily. To use Assassins/Shadows again; they can do everything we can do utility wise, except for shield - and as I said one crit and that's down.

 

After shield is down you're being crit for 3-4k every attack and against any half-brained opponent your Dark Infusion (big ct heal) is being interrupted. Any DPS class outside of Juggernaught/Guardian DPS (which are getting a buff btw) WILL take you down.

 

Its the class. You don't have the survivability or ammo conservation commandos have or the raw output that sages have.

 

Raw output? Yes we are able to put out some big heals but please keep in mind several things: alacrity is pretty much worthless so only crit heals are really making any impact in pvp healing stat wise, our big heals require 2 things: 1 .to remain stationary 2. A cast time which is easily interruptable.

 

Under pressure from one competent DPS and Sorc/Op healers will fall.

[Astarica]

First of all, i have no idea about the state of healing operatives

 

But, since this thread slowly evolved into "healing in PvP" here are my 2 creds.

 

Healing is still strong in swtor. Is it less strong than in other MMO games? Yes, and thank god it is.

 

The thing is, in a perfect world, choosing a class should not make you a more valuable asset to your team based on that class alone. Healers are more valuable just by being healers and the thing is that people are so used to it that they consider it a normal state of things.

 

I wish to enter a warzone and not have to scout out specifically for healers to kill. I want to scan the battlefield for good players and decide who i have to take down first. As long as there are multiple healers present, you cannot take down anyone else. So, i am being forced to go on healers.

 

Why am i being forced to attack healers? Why are they more valuable than others?

 

I am hoping one day i will hear "You are not and they are not" and feel it ring true.

 

 

 

P.S

 

With all that said, healing operatives are easier to kill than sorcs and mercs. This coming from PT pyro perspective.

 

I don't know why people want a game where the number of healers you have determines which side wins. I've been in fights where our side have no one with a healing spell and we actually defeated a team with a good healer. It'd be way easier if we have even a single guy who can cast a healing spell but the fact that it's possible shoudln't be a bad thing.

 

Healing, like I have said many times, appears to be something to keep a guy alive during a crucial time. It functions more like a defensive cooldown as opposed to your path to immortality. And I think that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

[Coldin]

Honestly, healing seems fine. Going up against a geared, well played, healer, they can be pretty hard to take down 1v1 or sometimes 2v1. Have them guarded, or worse, have two healers working together...and that team becomes very difficult to beat.

 

I've seen some Sorcerers be able to quickly duck out of LOS, activate their bubble and get up one or two quick heals before people are back up them. If they managed to crit those heals, then they're right back into the fight.

 

Now, I do think Scoundrel/Operative healers could use some kind of buff. The simple fact is that they don't really have any emergency skill that's always on hard. Assuming they don't have an Upper Hand, a heal is going to take at least 2 seconds. That's just too long if someone really needs a heal quick.

 

I don't really have any good suggestions to fix it though. I think the whole healing tree needs to be looked at and retooled. Just too many of the talents aren't very useful. especially the high level ones.

[qIrwuMfh]

Healing is too strong in this game. If well played, every encounter becomes a battle of elefants - very long, boring and just.. shallow.

[Lokai]

Actually problem is expertise really doesnt do what its advertised to do YES it in fact doesnt do anything at all unless fighting someone with more expertise or less expertise then you do.

 

Expertise Effects

% damage

% damage reduction

% healing increase

 

basically, if i have enough expertise to give myself 15% in all 3 areas i get 15% damage reduction BUT if you have same amount of expertise you negate my reduction entirely! so entire point of expertise is pretty much nulled by fact that damage is boosted by expertise! but on flip side so is our healing... basically healers are only ones actually benefit from expertise since our healing is not mitigated!

 

Personally expertise needs some work, and that is core issue right now with why damage feels like its out of control! because it is...has to be high for pve and our gear is at same level as pve tier 1 set i believe(or maybe tier 2?) so effectively damage is high! but we do not have hp of a raid boss... so whats happening is we end up dealing damage is higher then what i think devs intended, but was suppose to be controlled by expertise but do to way they designed it, is not!

 

What expertise SHOULD do is this

 

Expertise

Damage Reduction from players by X%

Reduces Crit chance from players by X%

Increases Hp by X%

 

Doing this would buff up over all survivability, and remove whole bursting people down scene. It would also make healers more beneficial because damage from attacks is reduced making our over all healing more effective since its not effected one way or the other here BUT damage is reduced accross the board, and see alot less crits!

 

Now DPS might hate this, but its just a fact of life... PVP shouldnt be ending in 3-6 seconds and should be lasting alot longer, and shouldnt be seeing these 5-6k crits by ANYONE! 2-3k should be top crits from a single attack. However before this can be done we first have to get interrupts working right and locking out all offense/defense depending on attack used, and melee probably need a shorter cooldown. additionally i'm not presently a fan of whole clense being divided by tech and force...basically means i cant do anything to clense off trooper or scoundrel debuffs as a sage and vice versa for other healers with force users. Think debuffs just need to be X type with both classes able to both types.

 

Just my thoughts at least.

[Iridor]

As a "for the record" kind of thing, you're wrong. I play Focus Guardian and was in Alderaan with a sage healer, and we held a turret against two, then three, then five players for long enough for me to get through three aoe taunts before reinforcements showed up and we smashed them. Heals are fine, you just can't spam heal only... you have to actually play intelligently.

[Acyu]

Let me start with a little introduction of my character.

 

I am a sorcerer with 487 expertise (Champion/centurion gear) with a full time healer spec (31/8/2).

 

I'm going to start by saying I have yet to see anyone on my server (people who I play against in warzones), from both imperials and republics of any class, that outperforms me, or come even close (at least ~100K difference). The only exception would be in huttball games where I spend most of my time capturing the ball.

 

I typically yield around ~300K-600K for huttball and alderaan, and ~700K for voidstar. I am not a fan of going for 75K medals so my damage typically floats around ~35K.

 

- Do DPS think taking trauma out of the PvP environment would make healers too powerful? Or perhaps, merely moving the debuff to 15% from 30% ?

 

As people are getting more and more geared, I do see trauma becoming more of a problem for healers. This impacts even sorcerer healers. Personally I would like to see the debuff move gradually until it equalizes around 15% for "battlemaster-geared" PvP.

 

- Do other geared healers have similar problems?

 

It all depends on who you're fighting against. I've had situations where I can take beatings from 5 people with the help of another healer, and I've had situations where one person can keep me busy healing only myself with the occasional HoT or shield on teammates.

 

The biggest advantage of a sorcerer is the bubble spell. It is an instant "heal" that is around ~3K at high expertise. It is awesome, and it has no cooldown except for the 20 (17 with 2piece) second debuff. In my opinion, it is one of the very few healing abilities that make sorcerer a viable PvP healing class. Without shield, the class would be severely gimped.

 

We have 4 primary heals + a shield + an cast-time AoE-HoT spell:

 

1. Innervate - the channel heal. This heals for about ~1200 per tick for 4 ticks if CRITICAL with TRAUMA debuff. This spell with talent on critical grants you a buff for a duration that allows the next consumption to cost no life (consumption trades 15% health for 8% force and -25% force regen). THIS is the source of our acclaimed "unlimited force." However, our force is not anywhere near unlimited and healers can run out of force quite quickly if force is not managed properly. This is less of a problem in PvP because people can respawn and so can you. This matter in PvE though.

 

2. Dark Infusion - the "big" heal. This is the "long cast" heal that crits for about ~4200 with trauma debuff and biochem stim. The cast time is ~2.3 seconds with 10% alacrity, but as I will later explain, should never be casted at its default cast time. With another healing spell's after-effect, the cast time is reduced to ~1.4 seconds. This is THE spell for my PvP healing. With recklessness (pretty much allowing my next two spells to be guaranteed critical strikes), relic popped, after-effect buffed, and double casted, dark infusion can heal for ~9.5K - 10K in ~2.8 seconds.

 

3. Dark Heal - the "small" heal. This is the "short cast" heal that crits for about ~2200 with trauma debuff and biochem stim. The cast time is ~1.4 seconds with 10% alacrity. This is the spell I rarely, if not never, use. The force cost (only 5 less than dark infusion at 46 forces) in exchange for HALF the dark infusion healing (51 force) is simply too crappy in most situations. This spell's cast time cannot be decreased by the "after-effect buff."

 

4. Resurgence - the "HoT" heal. This heal has a heal-on-application that crits for about ~1000 with trauma debuff and biochem stim. Its "every-3-second" HoT heals for about ~250 non-crit with trauma debuff and biochem stim. This spell in itself is quite gimped and provide very minimal healing. However, upon application, this spell gives a 10% armor buff to the target and grants the sorcerer a duration-buff that allows the next cast to have a "buff" depending on the heal you cast. I use it in conjunction with dark infusion, which reduces its cast time by 1 second, hence the ~1.4 second dark infusion casts. If you chain cast, aka spam key, you can actually use the buff for TWO casts after resurgence, hence ~9.8K-10K in ~2.8 seconds with cooldowns popped.

 

5. Static Barrier - the "bubble." This shield absorbs ~3K at high expertise. Everyone knows everything else.

 

6. Revivification - the "AoE." This is our cast time AoE-HoT heal. This is awesome when the group is somewhat clumped and stationary. This spell is the reason why voidstar typically yields a far greater healing done.

 

All-in-all, sorcerers have the "best" synergy among their healing spells, which makes them extremely good and efficient healers if played correctly. I don't believe this makes sorcerer overpowered, as they are not nearly as good in PvE as in PvP, and various classes can still give me trouble in PvP.

 

I do think other types of healers need to be "buffed," but rather "revamped" to have spells that compliment each other more to provide healing synergy. The bubble should stay unique to sorcerer/sage, but other healers need to be given other abilities.

 

- Which healer are you least likely to kill quickly in a PvP environment? Which do you feel are usually an easy mark?

Sorcerer is probably the hardest to kill if they actually LoS the DPS. Sorcerer spells (shield and resurgence) provides valuable GCDs for sorcerers to run away from the DPS. For example, I am taking too much heat and I need to run. I can bubble myself and put resurgence on myself while I run away. That is 3 seconds of running time where I am not actually "wasting" time on. Shield gives me a nice absorption and resurgence provides a minor heal + the very important after-effect buff for my impending dark infusion. With all my CDs popped, if I don't get interrupted, I can top myself off in ~3-4 seconds after I LoS. Of course this is not spammable because of the CD on cooldown abilities, but it is a great way to stay alive while being able to LoS.

 

- In your opinion should a healer be able to keep a group member alive, even while they're under heavy sustained DMG (provided that they aren't CCed or interrupted)?

 

Oh definitely. It would be completely pointless to play a healer if all it takes is ONE dps to take you down. I would even consider it broken if ONE dps can completely shutdown a healer and force the healer to only heal himself. However, with the trauma debuff, this does happen to me from time to time.

 

I have developed a reputation on my server where in certain games there will be specific operatives and/or marauders that literally stick on me the entire time. This cuts my healing in half. I can easily live through one of them, but against both the battlemaster marauder and operative, I die rather quickly. They know how to interrupt and know how to rotate their cooldowns. The operatives is smart enough not to do his opener when he is teamed with another player because he knows the opener fills the resolve bar. A good rotation of CC/stun/knockback/interrupt from them will take me down extremely fast.

 

This is the main reason why I think the trauma debuff should gradually decrease to balance the gear DPS are getting. Healing come from spells, and by nature spells are less gear-dependent than melee abilities and such. Now that a lot of people are geared, trauma needs to decreased

 

A good healer should be able, by design, to keep at least himself and one teammate alive against a good interrupting DPS. If that is not the case, then the system is broken in my opinion.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Acyu

[Talizzar]

 

As a healer I should be able to heal someone through 2 DPS.

 

 

Where is that written? Sorry I do not agree at all with this statement. If that is the case then 3 hearlers in a match would eliminate nearly all dps.

 

A healer should be able to out heal a tank attempting to beat them down. They should not be able to out heal the best dps classes in the game which most times I think you can.

[wallywaffles]

My brother plays a scoundrel healer, and we work well together. He gets absolutely demolished on his own, but together we last a very long time (if they attack me, he can heal against 4 attackers for 20sec or so, and if they attack him my guard/taunts reduce the damage enough that he can heal himself decently against 2).

 

The great thing about scoundrels/ops though is their HoTs. Throwing a couple on a few party members can really turn the tide of battle. Since they're instant, you can even cast them on the run (amazing in huttball). While sorcs/sages may have bubble shields and rescues, they have to stand still and channel in order to heal.

 

The only disadvantage I see to healers in WZs is their medals. He can heal 330k and get like 3-4 medals while I end up with 10. That really doesn't seem fair. We still enjoy playing together but it would be great to see this change.

[Darth_Eclipses]

As a "for the record" kind of thing, you're wrong. I play Focus Guardian and was in Alderaan with a sage healer, and we held a turret against two, then three, then five players for long enough for me to get through three aoe taunts before reinforcements showed up and we smashed them. Heals are fine, you just can't spam heal only... you have to actually play intelligently.

 

No, he's not.

 

What you're effectively saying is that your healer was taking up to at times 80% reduced damage and he didn't have a problem keeping either of you up before you received backup.

 

Well gee golly willickers, ya don't say?

Edited January 30, 2012 by Darth_Eclipses

[-sasori]

I'm a commando healer with roughly 500~ expertise.

 

As far as i am concerned, yes you can't heal anyone who is getting attacked by three average DDs.

 

You can't counter heal anyone with low or no expertise on his own attacked by a full relic / stim DD attacking him up from champion gear. Those DDs deliver over 3k DPS for a short amount of time, at best my HPS isn't even close to 2k. I may prolong their life for a few seconds after having blown up all my cooldowns.

 

People with champ gear are fairly healable sometimes even against two targets.

 

 

But that's only if i am to be left alone.

I actually think it's pretty good balanced _IF_ everyone is within the same expertise range and i'm left alone.

 

 

But what makes healing awkward is the CC in this game or the lack of a proper immunity system.

 

Every donkey can chain 3 stuns in the current resolve system, and then there is still, Pull, Pushback and Knockdown and INTERRUPT.

 

 

My only counter is my break free skill and my Shield which ironically isn't available because i use it in the first place to keep my teammate alive.

SCC -> Shield -> Kolto Bomb (grants two "shields" for a short duration)

 

 

 

Yes i know, i usually use all of my "CC" myself, AOe Pushback, or my two stuns. But for every CC i lack one GCD of Healing. So most of the time it winds up, CC one or two people short term and get your teammate killed due to lack of healing or keep on healing and hope you can manage to keep it up till the broken CC balance hit's me.

 

Stun (10-5secs) -(counter, break free) - Stun(5-10secs) - Knockdown (3secs) - Interrupt (4secs)

 

Yes it really does not matter when i blow my breakfree skill for the stun, this isn't one on one. I'm bound to sit one stun out, and you can bet your hide it will be two long stuns in a row hitting me.

 

 

And finally my pointless and useless "cure" skill. Currently it's 90% Force user casters and 10% something else. And i can't cure even one of these debuffs as Commando.

 

 

 

Currently i feel like the -30% on healing needs to go. Once a proper anti CC system and cure / debuff system is in place i would agree to bring the penalty back in place.

[Sprigum]

As a "for the record" kind of thing, you're wrong. I play Focus Guardian and was in Alderaan with a sage healer, and we held a turret against two, then three, then five players for long enough for me to get through three aoe taunts before reinforcements showed up and we smashed them. Heals are fine, you just can't spam heal only... you have to actually play intelligently.

 

Lot's of good discussion.

 

Being able to LOS a couple dimwitts in an alderaan is not a revolutionary thought.

 

I can definitely do this even by myself from time to time.

 

Queue the Benny Hill music and get LoSing.

 

It's not because healers are overpowered, it's because people are stupid.

 

As said before, against good players Healing feels very weak and a single good marauder can *really* decrease your healing for an entire game due to the 6 sec interrupt. Basically the good ones lock me down. All I can hope for is that they waste an interrupt on my DS and I can get my heal off anyway.

 

But, on the flip side, against very noobish or undergeared players healing feels very strong.

 

 

I don't think we can say, "Healing has to stay less competitive because Noobs can't keep a healer locked down"

[AssistSenn]

I'm a Valor 58 Sage. I typically am between 600-900k healing in Alderaan and Voidstar, if the game is competitive. I've had Scoundrel healers come close, but they are not quite up there. However I think they are pretty amazing when played well as a hybrid. If you think Scoundrels should be on par with Sage healers then I think you're asking for too much. Currently the Scoundrel is the best single target DPS pvp class and you also want it to be on par with the best healers in the game?

 

I think maybe you just need to start playing with a team more.

Edited January 30, 2012 by AssistSenn

[Jeido]

So, Healers have to rely on a tank to constantly guard them, but its okay for a single DPS to blow everything up in a few seconds.

 

Makes sense!

 

Are you really going to stand here and act like 1 DPS can kill you? I've gone Sawbones, with mostly dps gear I might add, and staying up vs 1 DPS isn't an issue. One of the top DPS operatives on my server spent the entire match trying to focus me down, but he couldn't get me past the <30% insta heal etc mark.

 

My point here is not to brag, or say you suck, but to ask you to look into the fights a little more. I'd be willing to bet that you're not really dying to that 1 dps (if you're as good as you say), but likely dying to 2 or more.

 

You shouldn't have any problem keeping people up against 1 DPS, but that is never the case in WZ's. You're never alone, and neither are they. If you start getting focused by a melee, run him into the middle of your team. If you get focused by ranged dps, LoS them. If you're getting focus'd by 2 DPS then you are toast, as you should be since it's 2v1, unless you have a second healer, a DPS to peel them off, or a tank to guard/taunt.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jeido