Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Touchbass]

Thanks Blue!

 

We need to start keeping records of all the important posts and start compiling them together along with the mutual suggestion for X- server [] intro server [] suggestion. That way we can point to a particular post and if he/she refuses to read it when we can then post it.

[Umbral]

This is all become so tiresome really, and pointless as well.

 

Bioware, in the end you have a simple choice to make. You know it, and I know it. You have the metrics. You know the score. Let's just stop all this silliness and you get your job done.

 

 

We on these forums have been going round and round, but it's already obvious by how quickly you changed your original position on a LFG tool that you've done your sums and realize how many subscribers you're losing with players not having easy access to group oriented content.

 

Now, you can hold whatever "beliefs' you want to hold, however misguided I may think they are. You can pretend that you're creating some altruistically motivated Eden for gamers with SWTOR. Go ahead. You seem still a bit young, so I'm sure you still think you have some choice in the matter.

 

It's time you get a wake up call, and it's time to grow up.

 

The brass tacks are that you have a responsibility to the company you work for, and in the long run, it's shareholders, to provide the greatest return possible on the investment made in creating this game. No one forced you to take your jobs. You saddled up.

 

You know as well as I know that it's very very clear to get the greater return on that investment you need to get as many people back subscribing to SWTOR as you can, and you need to attract new people, if you can. You must also know by now to do that one of the biggest steps you can take is getting a cross-server LFG tool in the game.

 

I imagine one of the problems holding things up is the teeth gnashing over how to deal with the uproar from the vocal minority that has run the show around these parts for so long.

 

First things first? Rein in your community team. Kick their arses out if you have to. They already did huge damage to your game by providing you with false information. Don't let them do more. This was either plain incompetence for not understanding the desires of the modern mmo gamer, or outright dishonesty in playing up the importance of a vocal minority that is against a cross-server LFG tool.

 

Second step? Just do it. Put it in the game and the dust will settle very quickly, and then we all can get on with SWTOR growing, instead of dying the quick death you and I know it currently is.

 

This isn't hate on the game speak here. You did a lot that was right. You just need to fix the mistakes you made. There's no shame in that. It shows character.

 

Get your job done.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Umbral

[DukSaber]

I was against a dungeon finder until yesterday. What changed my mind was a group we had doing hardmode directive 7. We started and did the first boss and then a guy leaves. It took forever literally to replace this person. Leaving a group hurts the other players just tooo much. Dungeon finder would solve this.

 

After the first person left we took over an hour trying to replace them in gen chat. We found someone and then they didnt have the mission or something and left. We spent another 30min and just gave up,,,moved onto something else. Simply b/c someone left the group we spent an 1.5 hrs and still didnt get a group again. Dungeon finder would be an easy solution to this. One person (even if disconnected whatever) shouldnt have this kind of impact on groups.

[Touchbass]

I was against a dungeon finder until yesterday. What changed my mind was a group we had doing hardmode directive 7. We started and did the first boss and then a guy leaves. It took forever literally to replace this person. Leaving a group hurts the other players just tooo much. Dungeon finder would solve this.

 

After the first person left we took over an hour trying to replace them in gen chat. We found someone and then they didnt have the mission or something and left. We spent another 30min and just gave up,,,moved onto something else. Simply b/c someone left the group we spent an 1.5 hrs and still didnt get a group again. Dungeon finder would be an easy solution to this. One person (even if disconnected whatever) shouldnt have this kind of impact on groups.

 

+1 Every day our numbers swell! It's kinda like we are the zerg, an overgrowing mutant attack force and the anti X-LFD people are the Terran. Except instead of gun blasters they attack us with wet noddles, their Admiral runs their command post from his mothers basement, and "all your base are belong to us".

Edited January 28, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

/bump

[Andejatt]

I understand the viewpoint of not adding a cross realm lfg tool this early in the process, but at least add one that is in server... This will really help everyone experience all the heroics/flashpoints while leveling, because atm, a lot of people end up skipping flashpoints/heroics because they have a hard time finding a group and out level those fp's.

 

Personally I am a pve player who loves doing group instances which are flashpoints in the game. I have a full time job, am married with kids, and go to school, so I have a very limited time to play during the week. With a lfg tool, I will actually be able to enjoy the game to its fullest during my playtime.

 

Please consider adding a better system for players to form groups and release it asap. Thank you for your time in reading my post.

[Neiloch]

I might have gained a little insight into people who oppose a DF after talking to someone I know.

 

I can only hope people are aware that we, at least I know for sure I was, talking about grouping at LEVEL 50. I had no problem getting groups pre-50 when I wanted them, matter of fact I would say I got more invites than I wanted. Its level 50 when all you can really do is do dailies away from the fleet, do nothing in the fleet, or do warzones which are completely unrelated to PvE. These are your options.

 

What seems to happen is people 'miss' one another. Since all they can do is stand around in the fleet or be somewhere else entirely, their 'resolve' for simply staying on LFG is quite low. I suppose if all these people having a problem finding a group stayed on for 2 hours or more they would eventually be on at the same time, LFG at the same time, in the same zone and on the same server.

 

Frankly, that is unreasonable set of circumstances to get a group. I would LOVE to see a global LFG channel put in that everyone is in by default and have to knowingly leave the channel to remove it. Who knows maybe it will be good enough for quite a while. It would be quite the easy fix.

 

Seriously, is a default, global LFG channel such an unreasonable request?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

I understand the viewpoint of not adding a cross realm lfg tool this early in the process, but at least add one that is in server... This will really help everyone experience all the heroics/flashpoints while leveling, because atm, a lot of people end up skipping flashpoints/heroics because they have a hard time finding a group and out level those fp's.

 

Personally I am a pve player who loves doing group instances which are flashpoints in the game. I have a full time job, am married with kids, and go to school, so I have a very limited time to play during the week. With a lfg tool, I will actually be able to enjoy the game to its fullest during my playtime.

 

Please consider adding a better system for players to form groups and release it asap. Thank you for your time in reading my post.

 

Thank you Andejatt. Your concerns are shared among an increasing large playerbase. I believe a X-LFD is going to be needed very soon, if not already. That being said, i'm willing to wait a bit as long as we get a working internal LFD tool first.

 

Have you had a chance to read my post on the first page posted by BlueSkittles? Scroll down to the section "Square peg meets round hole", you'll see that you me and relate in many ways!

[Touchbass]

I might have gained a little insight into people who oppose a DF after talking to someone I know.

 

I can only hope people are aware that we, at least I know for sure I was, talking about grouping at LEVEL 50. I had no problem getting groups pre-50 when I wanted them, matter of fact I would say I got more invites than I wanted. Its level 50 when all you can really do is do dailies away from the fleet, do nothing in the fleet, or do warzones which are completely unrelated to PvE. These are your options.

 

What seems to happen is people 'miss' one another. Since all they can do is stand around in the fleet or be somewhere else entirely, their 'resolve' for simply staying on LFG is quite low. I suppose if all these people having a problem finding a group stayed on for 2 hours or more they would eventually be on at the same time, LFG at the same time, in the same zone and on the same server.

 

Frankly, that is unreasonable set of circumstances to get a group. I would LOVE to see a global LFG channel put in that everyone is in by default and have to knowingly leave the channel to remove it. Who knows maybe it will be good enough for quite a while. It would be quite the easy fix.

 

Seriously, is a default, global LFG channel such an unreasonable request?

 

My highest is only level 32 and I wish I was able to find groups while leveling. As it stands right now I can't find a group while leveling at all. I've tried going to the /fleet several times but with all the travel time, interuption in enjoyable questing, and lack of anything to do really while sitting around I've just given up in light of waiting for 50. As a DPS I can't even find a group for planet heroics half the time This is from server shadow hand which is a big one on the repubilc side

[TJixlee]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlueSkittles]

Seriously, is a default, global LFG channel such an unreasonable request?

 

Tried to find the great response to this from an earlier version of this thread, but basically this. WoW tried this, it was a mess and horror and pretty much crashed ALL servers. Just my suggestion that Bioware not try this.

[Manathayria]

I like how we have a group of 10 people basically repeating the same posts over-and-over again and attacking anyone who disagrees with them. If Bioware makes the mistake of listening to basically 10 people who are complaining to each other until they hit thread cap, and ruins the game because of it, at least we'll know who to blame.

We've asked that people give feedback - give other suggestions other than cross server for or against. I personally, have asked what constructive alternatives people can give and asked that they be posted rather than people go: Working for me! I have a guild!

 

You haven't refuted, at all, the issues that finders cause, in fact, you've only demonstrated your ignorance of how they ruin MMOs. I've written the devs privately on the issue, and frankly? I won't stick around to see what the game becomes if they ever implement such a system.

My post listing a QA style breakdown? Wasn't intended to refute anything, it was a list of both sides - what was said and answered. The reason for the format I used was to allow for easier reading - not to pick one side over the other.

 

Rewarding lazy players is a poor design choice. It ultimately leads to the downfall of the game, as only the worst players (by your own admission - since you claim the guild / social-network type players won't use it) will be in the queue, you will simply be queueing fail group after fail group.

So someone that dislikes being herded into a guild is a bad player why? Oh, and none of us ever said people that have guilds won't use it - nor did we say anything about people being bad players for using a queue system. We said if they hate it, there's the option not to if they are networking - and again, stated we'd like to see any options people can think of that will work better than the current system.

 

You then claim you won't come on the forum whining for nerfs... and yet we have dozens upon dozens of posts by your own supporters who are asking for an easy mode... so it's bogus. This is a veiled way of trying to force nerfs on Flashpoint and Operations content, nothing more, and any further argument against it is simply an admission that you are a bad and want to see the game destroyed.

We never asked for nerfs - we stated that a third easy mode version was used in WoW's LFR system, we also kept restating, and will continue to, that we would enjoy seeing harder content added - as it'll keep some of the hardcores/those running within guilds happy. We never stated we wanted nerfs, and you saying we do is projecting.

 

-

 

Period.

 

WoW has all your finders. You're not playing WoW, why? Because WoW died... and it died because of its culture of easy-mode content, DPS meters, gearscore and other "we don't actually want to have to be good at the game to complete content" type thinking. It died because of the entitlement generation going "we pay $15 a month, we get whatever we want".

It's not dead. I don't see where you get this idea. Oh, and I play wow off and on, I do still log on there. I like a variety of games and a variety of play styles.

 

No, you don't.

 

I'm not adding further to this, it's not happening, make as many threads as you want, such a tool being implemented just because 10 people and their alts want to spam the forum would be the death toll of the game.

You added nothing other than screaming that it's a bad idea. There is a dungeon finder coming - though not cross server at the moment. You never suggested anything more than your voice against a cross server finder - or any dungeon finder at all from what I see. You're unwilling to do as we've invited and have suggested - contribute to the discussion, give ideas that may keep more people happy. Instead you jumped on it as 'OMG you want wow!'.

Again, realise this, I have played under multiple systems, I've seen the 'rep' systems in play. Just because something was used in WoW doesn't mean it's amazing and the end all - just because they avoided using something doesn't mean that it's a bad idea either.

 

Yes, a few in the thread would go for cross server. I, personally, have a prefrence of a system that gives options if we do end up with cross server. However, Server community is something that bioware has stated that at the moment, they want to preserve. If you pay attention - this is what they had to say - first page of this thread, again.

 

Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Manathayria

[Skaara]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What a well thought out constructive post that contributes to the discussion.

 

/facepalm

[Touchbass]

Tried to find the great response to this from an earlier version of this thread, but basically this. WoW tried this, it was a mess and horror and pretty much crashed ALL servers. Just my suggestion that Bioware not try this.

 

It's a band aid to a bullet wound, so it won't work.

 

Lets play Devil's advocate and pretend a LFD channel is the fix

 

It'll become the new /trade and worst of all it'll be global! I can't even stand the /1 channels on any planet with more then 50 people on it personally, why on earth would I want access to everyones opinions on everything? You honestly think people are going to not abuse that power and keep it strictly to only "LFG discussion'? Ha, it's a portable Chuck Norris has killed WoW update tool, that's it. People will stop using it and it'll be another waste of developers time.

This is the other scenario, the players themselves make their own player created LFG

 

This only helps the people finding group members the current way in fleet. All of the reaons that plague the game that require a X-LFD will not be solved with player imposed LFD channel. How can you use that channel if only 15 are online at your currenet level and don't wish to group wat all?

 

 

I won't even go into the other countless reasons why it won't work. If this tool could even remotely work with any broad appeal do you not think for one instance it'd be used on a regular basis? Some of these people saying how it works on their server as a way of finding groups are full of it. It works in some situations but it's just a glorified sub-guild method of getting ahold of each other.

[Touchbass]

Btw, someone mentioned that all the people posting for X-LFD and intra server/X-server abilities are only a few of us and all our alts posting. I can't believe someone who think I'd purchase more then one account to post on the forums. Yikes. It's my understanding that you can't change the name of your poster like that.

[Papakeno]

You ruin the community on servers by allowing this mass-lfd-x-server-system.

 

1. The game loses a social interaction feature (looking for a flashpoint in the traditional and original way) and promotes an individual focused "give-me-everything-for-free-I-can't-wait-I-need-everything-now-attitude".

 

2. The server will lose it's personalization. Players won't be recognized. You log in, run this tool, then you're done with it (note that you are taking away a big part of the social interaction a mmorpg should promote).

 

3. The appreciation from getting to run a flashpoint will diminish.

 

I really hate this idea and this was one of the things that made me leave WoW (among several other).

[Papakeno]

Though I am for a more developed LFG tool than the current one. As long as it stays on the server.

[Touchbass]

Though I am for a more developed LFG tool than the current one. As long as it stays on the server.

 

Thanks Papakeno!

 

I disagree with your assertion about community destroying but if you look at page 1 for my thoughts on that matter we can continue that if you'd like. A lot of people are for the idea of server only LFD tool and that's good to see as a form of compromise which I am very happy to see.

 

What a lot of us are thinking:

 

Group drop box selection:

Server only option []

X-LFD option []

 

The idea being X-server is a faster queue then intro server so there is some reason for people in high populated servers to take it to save unbalanced servers and ones with next to zero population in the player level range at hand.

 

Tell me what you think!

Edited January 28, 2012 by Touchbass

[Kizdin]

I understand what people mean about the social aspect of the game, but that is all centered around the fleet station, it has the bonus of being where most of the flashpoints are, but that shouldn't mean that we are chained to that place as i feel we are atm,

any non lvl 50 comes and goes from the station as they hop from planet to planet, but post 50 what is there for us? constantly running round the station sending you crew off waiting for some one to be looking for the same thing you are.

 

a social hub should be just that, a place where people go to be sociable and i think that should be rewarded with activities and things to do in that places (maybe a place where people can go to specifically look for a guild along with other random chats and making social connection). A community is only as good as the people that participate and not just send out LFG messages.

 

However what we have at the moment is an area that there is nothing to do in but wate for things to happen, i play a healer and so things tent to happen quite quickly for me but that doesn't get away from that fact that i have spent the last 2 weeks on the station with out travailing to anywhere.

 

I played wow vanilla while it was still the meeting stones, i tried the group finder after may years after and found that it help me do things faster but you didn't really talk to any one , this isn't a failing of the group finder system but a failing of the social system that was implemented or lack of.

The last mmo i played was Rift and this had a group finder but it also had events in the world that forced people to be together and join up to do tasks, this meant that you could still run the dungeons when ever you wanted and still participate in the social system.

 

As For SW there is already a social system in place why can that not be expanded on, atm it is only for group conversation but this could be so much more, i personally would love to sit in a social canteen and play the holographic chess like game, or maybe a competitive 2d side scroller or even i go as far as a a few levels from "unreal tournament".

 

what i am trying to get at is that a system to make things easier and faster to experience game content doesn't have to result in the death of a community you have to change the community into something that bonds people together beyond looking for group.

 

To me that is what this game needs a compramize to bridge the gap

[navarh]

You ruin the community on servers

for me comunity that hold's only on things like "dude you don't have any other choice join or gtfokktnhbb"…

 

well… it's not a comunity by any chance…

i don't see anything that can be "ruined" here

[Umbral]

You ruin the community on servers by allowing this mass-lfd-x-server-system.

 

1. The game loses a social interaction feature (looking for a flashpoint in the traditional and original way) and promotes an individual focused "give-me-everything-for-free-I-can't-wait-I-need-everything-now-attitude".

 

2. The server will lose it's personalization. Players won't be recognized. You log in, run this tool, then you're done with it (note that you are taking away a big part of the social interaction a mmorpg should promote).

For all that is holy, why does the fact that standing and spamming the same LFG message is not interacting with anyone socially not sink in to some people's heads? How can anyone in their right mind equate it as socialization? What does running group oriented instances have to do with "server personalization"? There's all the other facets of the game where that can be fostered for crying out loud. BW designers, do you people seriously buy into the crock of **** these people are continually spewing? BW designers, are you that dense? If you are? Then you deserve what the players of this genre are handing you. Simple as that.

 

3. The appreciation from getting to run a flashpoint will diminish.

The only thing I appreciate after standing around for two hours trying to find a group is that if they don't get a proper cross -server LFD tool in this mmo soon, I appreciate that there's mmos out there that do have them and I'll finally be able to actually play a mmo again when I log into one. Edited January 28, 2012 by Umbral

[Touchbass]

Outside of guilds and posting on this forum, I really haven't seen a very strong community at all in this game. Judging from the way people are posting and acting in-game on my server, I dont' think I'm the only one either.

[Papakeno]

Thanks Papakeno!

 

I disagree with your assertion about community destroying but if you look at page 1 for my thoughts on that matter we can continue that if you'd like. A lot of people are for the idea of server only LFD tool and that's good to see as a form of compromise which I am very happy to see.

 

What a lot of us are thinking:

 

Group drop box selection:

Server only option []

X-LFD option []

 

The idea being X-server is a faster queue then intro server so there is some reason for people in high populated servers to take it to save unbalanced servers and ones with next to zero population in the player level range at hand.

 

Tell me what you think!

 

Due to my earlier stated reasons (which ofcourse can be described and argued for in more detail, but I cba right now) I can't agree with a x-server lfd tool. As I said before, I'm for a server only lfd tool.

 

If there are population problems on a server which makes it harder for people to find groups there is a solution; server merge and free server transfers.

[Papakeno]

For all that is holy, why does the fact that standing and spamming the same LFG message is not interacting with anyone socially not sink in to some people's heads? How can anyone in their right mind equate it as socialization? What does running group oriented instances have to do with "server personalization"? There's all the other facets of the game where that can be fostered for crying out loud. BW designers, do you people seriously buy into the crock of **** these people are continually spewing? BW designers, are you that dense? If you are? Then you deserve what the players of this genre are handing you. Simple as that.

 

The only thing I appreciate after standing around for two hours trying to find a group is that if they don't get a proper cross -server LFD tool in this mmo soon, I appreciate that there's mmos out there that do have them and I'll finally be able to actually play a mmo again when I log into one.

 

If you look closely, that is neither what I am saying nor what I'm suggesting.

 

A server only lfd tool will solve your problems as well as mine.

[Touchbass]

Due to my earlier stated reasons (which ofcourse can be described and argued for in more detail, but I cba right now) I can't agree with a x-server lfd tool. As I said before, I'm for a server only lfd tool.

 

If there are population problems on a server which makes it harder for people to find groups there is a solution; server merge and free server transfers.

 

So that is a no for the option of them both?

 

Servers/Transfers don't work very well