Interesting thing about deserter threads

[Hethroin]

A 10 - 15 minute queue lockout is very much inline as a consequence for leaving or getting kicked from a WZ. The current situation promotes WZ desertion at the first time of trouble.

 

I never desert.

 

I also have benign peripheral tremor (shaky hands), severe dysgraphia, and my left hand hasn't worked too well since it was impaled by a bowie-knife wielding nut back in the 80s after I told one too many Chuck Norris jokes.

 

After knocking back a few beers, or a bottle of red wine, I like to queue up to do my warzone dailies. I enjoy starting 1v1 matches as far from the objectives as I can get, standing in fire circles and acid pools, pulling opposing Huttball carriers into the end zone with harpoon, telling new Chuck Norris jokes and calling team members gay in Op chat. And I never, ever pass the ball...at least not to a member of _my_ team.

 

I know I'm not an awesome PVPer or anything, but I still usually manage to get top medals when the stats window pops up at the end of the match.

 

I agree, people who desert matches are utterly despicable. I can't imagine why anyone would want to miss out on the chance to be in an op with me.

 

Guild invite sent. Delta Force Five welcomes you.

[XenonParsec]

OK I reassessed my life and I still think its rude and selfish. It's a video game, yes. Baseball is a game, go to a field with a game going on a steal the ball so they cant play and tell them to relax, its just a game.

 

Dude, I understand it's a game. I am proposing an ingame solution, not sending them to prison.

 

I like it when people compare ephemeral digital amusement to actual real life. You go and steal a baseball, and get tazered.

 

Now, you need some virtual punitive measure to protect what you think is holy and sacred, thinking that dipping out of a pvp match with a bunch of bads is "rude and selfish." This is where people should reassess their life priorities, and realize that ones and zeros dont have to make you mad.

 

So long as the games are unrated and there's no penalty, I will keep maximizing my fun time, my valor gain, and my comms. If that makes you angry, and you think I'm a bad person, that's just too bad.

[Tourne]

The only time I ever left a team that wasn't due to a crash/disconnect- was during a match in which ALL of my team members had been hiding in some obscure place of the map.

 

 

It really blows when you enter a match with 2min left to have all the previous players deserting...leaving the newly joined guys no chance to mob up the mess. Even the best of players can't go back in time and fix the objectives already taken.

 

It has nothing to do with being a "hero"...if you are that outmatched just all agree to not get farmed and try to end the match quickly.

 

I'm all for a deserter debuff of 3hrs- it's still a choice to play or leave...obviously if you leave you aren't that serious about pvp and are trying to set yourself up for an ALREADY winning team with less of an effort on your part (just to get your token daily done).

 

You aren't being rated- there's no big sign that hovers over you if you lose a match...suck it up like anyone else in a actual competition.

 

Someone is going to win....and someone is going to lose.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tourne

[Sabbathius]

OP,

 

The REALLY interesting thing about deserter threads is that nobody seems to care WHY people are leaving.

 

Consider this scenario:

 

Your PUG, with half the players in it under level 20, get matched to a premade in high 40s. What chance do you have? NONE. None whatsofreakingever! And instead of being good sports and quickly doing a 6-0 and leaving, they farm your team for 15 mins.

 

Now, in a scenario like this, can you REALLY blame people when they choose to leave? Think about it. You have a low chance of winning, because a bunch of level 11s decided they wanted to PeeVeePee, and then you get matched to a well-geared, teamplaying premade to boot, your chances drop below freezing point. So what's the point in staying for 15 mins?

 

Now, my CRAAAAAAZY suggestion is, instead of PUNISHING people for leaving such a scenario, why not prevent these scenarios from happening? I mean, is it too much to ask that a team with an average l level of 45 NOT be matched up to a team with an average level of 15? I mean, am I the only nutjob here that thinks like that?

[Maniacal]

I'll admit, I desert...but only Huttball, and only at the very beginning. I do so on account of how much I LOATHE that warzone. As a trooper, everything about Huttball is stacked against me, and I refuse to play it.

 

Simple as that.

 

However if I get a debuff for doing so, so be it. I'll keep deserting Huttball, and simply wait longer to queue my next one.

 

Also, to the poster above me: Bolster.

 

My lvl 12 Guardian 1v1'ed a lvl 50 Sorc. If anything else, Bolster does it's job. Sure, you don't have the abilities, but you still have a chance. ESPECIALLY in Huttball, since you don't really NEED to fight as much, just run and pass. With 50's finally out of the other bracket and in their own, there is absolutely zero reason to ***** about level differences.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Maniacal

[Midasear]

I am proposing an ingame solution

 

The mechanic you are proposing is not a "solution" because it does not actually SOLVE anything.

 

The problem is that sometimes a player is simply not willing to put forward any effort in match once they become convinced winning is unlikely. Honestly, almost everyone is like this, regardless of the game mechanics. What varies among people is the threshold for giving up and the response. Those of us with higher thresholds tend to get really annoyed with the sort of people who give up right after the coin toss, and its only natural to want to punish them somehow. But while game mechanics CAN influence their response, they can not actually change their threshold for giving up.

 

The existence of a deserter debuff would not change this underlying issue. Since most of them are strangers, the incentive of other players to avoid annoying us by sucking it up and actually playing the **** game is pretty minimal. The potential deserter might just decide to eat the debuff, leaving exactly where we were before. Or they would put forward minimal team effort in the match up to and including AFK dancing, potentially leaving us worse off than now. The pessimists, min/maxers, lazies, cranks, nicotine cravers, sleepy drunks, moms-with-crying-babies etc... will continue to desert, they'll just remain in our warzones.

 

We would both still be annoyed, and would want yet another mechanism to punish players for annoying us, beginning the cycle anew. But the underlying problem is not amenable to solution. Its built into human nature.

 

Personally, I decided a while back to just short-circuit all this nonsense by accepting that other players have goals, strategies and very serious character defects of their own, all of which Bioware is quite powerless to influence. These people do not exist to help me win in war zones, anyway. Besides, many seemingly wonderful people and perpetually enthusiastic participants are, despite their good intentions and team spirit, bigger obstacles to winning.

 

I've been happier since then. I say let people desert. Just don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[Horanax]

The times that I desert is when we have 6 players and they have 8. We don't stand a chance and just keep feeding them medals for nothing.

 

What would get me to stay even in this situation though is if we have 6 people allow 2 of our players to pull out their companions to help. Still use only player characters to judge timing out and if another one shows up bring them in and ditch one of the companions.

 

But forcing us to play 6v8 when we could pull out a healer companion for the added help is retarded.

[nitaant]

This is an issue mostly on cross-server insta-Q bgs imo.

 

When you can Q again with a very low likelihood of ever meeting the same people again, and you can instantly Q from any location and instantly jump into any BG, people will just keep doing this unless the deserter debuff is very strong - which is an ugly game mechanic honestly and leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

People must have hit 50, what, two weeks ago for the most part? Were only a month into the game for cryin' out loud.

 

Here's the fix - remove insta-Qs and random jump-into-BGs system and bring back a Q at point system in each planet. Enforce a 5 minute minimum start timer even if the game fills instantly. Deal with long Q times by merging servers and not by adding cross realm BGs.

 

Because of being forced to be in the proximity of the people they are going to be playing with - and potentially facing them again outside of the BG Q, not many will quit any longer. It also enhances the feeling of team cohesiveness and spirit when people hang out and chat or duel each other while waiting for the Q to pop. Let the people on the server deal with the ******es who keep quitting, don't do the objectives at all and just farm medals and such. People that complain about premades arn't able to find premades easily - because there ARE no premades outside of guild and friend circles any longer - in WoW anyway. Incidentally, healthy premade vs premade action is best found through this system as well. Even 100 people Qing on a server at a time (which is a lot. It is 10 games happening simultaneously. I am not sure there are many servers with much more than this right now). Eventually everyone will know or at least know OF everyone - premades get formed and invites get handed out to the objective based, helpful, productive players, while the idiots are blacklisted and left to PUG it. Eventually, the other faction will have enough premades that the PUG vs premade action will be so poor that people will play better to get into the premades. This really is how the PvP system should be, it was great back in vanilla WoW and never should have been changed. It was only changed because of Blizzard's money grubbing tendencies and their desire for more customers and 'casual players' - which I hope Bioware will not go for - any time soon anyway. It is an mmo RPG. It is not MEANT to be entirely casual - it is meant to be an investment. I am not saying it should be an EQ or MUD style time investment, which even vanilla wow was far from, but it should be so.

 

If you can't spend 5 minutes per Q beforehand and find your way to the Q location in a virtual world for better gameplay overall - you yourself are the griefer to the genre and what it requires and should play a different game that requires time - not play what everyone is playing but on your own terms.

Edited January 27, 2012 by nitaant

[tsupra]

Myself was originally against deserters but after i read many valids points in this thread i changed my mind!

[Cegenaus]

ive said this countless times but losers need a lockout as well. if i get dragged down because other people suck they are going to suffer as well. i get a lockout? so do you for sucking

[Tourne]

The times that I desert is when we have 6 players and they have 8. We don't stand a chance and just keep feeding them medals for nothing.

 

 

You aren't "feeding" them medals...you just lost- clear as day.

 

I wouldn't imagine that you would abandon a winning game- which means that under any scenario certain people just can not handle to lose...at all. What ever happened to the "win some/lose some" mentality?

 

 

The athletic community doesn't pull this...well, except for John McEnroe.

[Kopernicous]

I love huttball and alderaan. I absolutely hate void star. They need to add more teamwork oriented warzones and less spam the door with AOE to win warzones.

 

I agree is seems like Voidstar is a lets meet at the door and smash into each other until one team has no one left standing. At least the other ones imo have more strategy to them.

[Tourne]

I like it when people compare ephemeral digital amusement to actual real life. You go and steal a baseball, and get tazered.

 

 

...I've finally seen the day when someone compared baseball to "real life"- dude, it's a game.

 

 

Not like it's soccer or anything- you can get killed over soccer...the only way someone dies at a baseball game is if you choke on your 40th hotdog before you swash it down with a gallon of beer.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tourne

[ugig]

Should make the penalty somthing like, For the next 2 warzone matches you will do 25% less healing and dmg and move at 1/2 of normal speed.

 

No one would ever desert a match then, deserting would make them suck...not that they didnt to start with. Honestly, if you are playing a game, and can't afford the 10-15 min to see the match thru to the end then maybe you you shouldnt be playing a game to begin with

[Madcatyoji]

I only desert if I'm opening gear bags at the start. Otherwise I stick it out.

[Tourne]

Should make the penalty somthing like, For the next 2 warzone matches you will do 25% less healing and dmg and move at 1/2 of normal speed.

 

No one would ever desert a match then, deserting would make them suck...not that they didnt to start with. Honestly, if you are playing a game, and can't afford the 10-15 min to see the match thru to the end then maybe you you shouldnt be playing a game to begin with

 

Wow, actually the best idea that I've seen regarding game mechanics in a long time...

[nitaant]

Wow, actually the best idea that I've seen regarding game mechanics in a long time...

 

This would gimp the rest of the team. Have a problem with players AFKing out and clueless players entering? Imagine getting stuck with a few players that aren't functioning at full capacity.

 

This would not work.

[RealAeiouy]

Op,

 

You are 100% right. Good players never afk, never quit matches because they feel outmanned or out geared.

 

To actually be good you have to always believe you can be effective, if you don't have that relentless mindset then you are not good even if you have kidded yourself are. People will make all sorts of excuses as to why they quit and still claim they are good but it is not possible.

 

Good players come back and win at times when defeat appears certain. You can never do that quitting or blaming gear. Energy and effort are important and being succesful in anything. Quitters are not good no matter what lame justification they use.

 

Finally the time you learn the most and improve the most is when you are out geared and out manned. If you leave those situations you are reducing your exposure to improving and becoming better.

 

Listen I understand if people don't have the inclination for it and just want to dabble in pvp. That being said you can't at the same time claim you are an expert or super fighter while playing fundamentally poorly.

 

For those of you who do quit or give up, 75% of my favorite matches of all time involve big comebacks. The other 25% are evenly matched fights where both sides give 110% the whole time. By quitting you never experience the best part of the game.

[tohau]

All the deserter debuffs do to deserters anyway is it makes them hide in the corner not doing anything when the match goes badly and afk rather than leave outright. (happend in AoC once the deserter debuff was in place)

 

Deserters are not people who are in it for scraps of internet honor or the respect of some elitest pvpers, they are there for fun and when they stop having fun they leave, which happens around the time when they realize they will lose.

[Hethroin]

Op,

 

You are 100% right. Good players never afk, never quit matches because they feel outmanned or out geared.

 

To actually be good you have to always believe you can be effective, if you don't have that relentless mindset then you are not good even if you have kidded yourself are. People will make all sorts of excuses as to why they quit and still claim they are good but it is not possible.

 

Good players come back and win at times when defeat appears certain. You can never do that quitting or blaming gear. Energy and effort are important and being succesful in anything. Quitters are not good no matter what lame justification they use.

 

Finally the time you learn the most and improve the most is when you are out geared and out manned. If you leave those situations you are reducing your exposure to improving and becoming better.

 

Listen I understand if people don't have the inclination for it and just want to dabble in pvp. That being said you can't at the same time claim you are an expert or super fighter while playing fundamentally poorly.

 

For those of you who do quit or give up, 75% of my favorite matches of all time involve big comebacks. The other 25% are evenly matched fights where both sides give 110% the whole time. By quitting you never experience the best part of the game.

 

What? Having to play hard makes you better? You must be trolling.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm of the same mindset.

 

[Armaso]

Op,

 

You are 100% right. Good players never afk, never quit matches because they feel outmanned or out geared.

 

To actually be good you have to always believe you can be effective, if you don't have that relentless mindset then you are not good even if you have kidded yourself are. People will make all sorts of excuses as to why they quit and still claim they are good but it is not possible.

 

Good players come back and win at times when defeat appears certain. You can never do that quitting or blaming gear. Energy and effort are important and being succesful in anything. Quitters are not good no matter what lame justification they use.

 

Finally the time you learn the most and improve the most is when you are out geared and out manned. If you leave those situations you are reducing your exposure to improving and becoming better.

 

Listen I understand if people don't have the inclination for it and just want to dabble in pvp. That being said you can't at the same time claim you are an expert or super fighter while playing fundamentally poorly.

 

For those of you who do quit or give up, 75% of my favorite matches of all time involve big comebacks. The other 25% are evenly matched fights where both sides give 110% the whole time. By quitting you never experience the best part of the game.

 

Did you steal that speach from a sports movie? Now back to reality, 110% can not be given.

[Ruser]

First off, I am in favor of a deserter debuff or lockout. Not excessive, just enough so there is no benefit to leaving a losing match and joining a new match. I am of this opinion because I feel it's selfish to leave others and ruin their match as well as ruining it for the opposition who will have no challenge playing less people. Currently, (I will use huttball as an example) too many matches are 6-0 or 0-6 and not 3-2 because of deserters on both sides.

 

Anyway the interesting thing is..

All the threads are started by your teammates who you deserted and crippled their match, not the opposition. So when you say...

• Premades are unfair
  
• I hate Huttball/Voidstar/Alderan
  
• Opposition has better gear
  
• My teammates are idiots
  
• People are medal farming and not doing objectives
  

 

You are helping the premades and overgeared and hurting your teammates. Not that deserters care, they probably join a new match right away hoping for winning teammates to carry them to a win which they will believe was because of them.

 

On my server, the better players almost never desert the match, only the cowards who just have issues getting wins, desert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these pre-mades, gear excuses is another way of saying I don't like losing so I will screw over my teammates and join a new group. I don't like this zone so screw you and your game, play with 6 or 7 vs 8 and lose.

 

We can not have a queue for every zone, x 2 for pre-mades and pugs x 2 for 1-49 and 50 x 2 for champ gear and no new gear. You would end up with 48 hour waits and the babies would probably still leave if they went down 2-0. Seriously, has anyone ever played a team sport here. STOP BEING SO SELF CENTERED.

 

 

The hackers/AFK'ers thing is valid but come on, how often is that happening.

 

Choose a Side

 

Your straw man argument is made of straw

[Briljin]

Before they even dream of adding a deserter debuff, BW needs to fix their crashing issue (just search for SWTOR 9000 error as an example) or make it so if you crash you can reload into your WZ provided it it still going.

 

All adding the debuff will do is force them to stay, in which case if you are lucky they will just AFK the rest of the match (which apparently is acceptable to BW). If you are unlucky they will active just cause trouble. Yeah it sucks to have people bail out when things start to go bad but it sucks equally when you are in a match with people AFK or just not even trying to take objectives. In that case are they wrong for wanting to dump that game and move on?

[XenonParsec]

Did you steal that speach from a sports movie? Now back to reality, 110% can not be given.

 

That's how all these Internet = real life people are. Sports may be a game also, but real people play, as in physically throw and catch things, and real people go to watch.

 

Here in the digital world, nothing matters. Someone leaving the WZ did not ding your car door, spill beer on your kid, give you a freedom grope while entering the stadium, heckle your favorite player, or charge you like $10 for a dodger dog. The VERY WORST THING that happened to you is that you don't get as many numbers added to a database table someplace.

 

That's right. Numbers in a *********** database table. I'm also glad some of you have a can-do competitive spirit. That's great. You know what you win from playing star wars? NOTHING.

 

So please, the next time you feel mad or indignant about leavers or afkers, or any other first world issue for that matter, just relax instead.

[Hategull]

Gotta love the OP. "Don't agree with me? Then you'll be added to the QUOTE WALL OF SHAME!"