Do away with PVP Gear

[DosPeros]

You don't seem to understand that none of the problems you have will be solved by just completely getting rid of PVP gear rewards.

 

You are totally failing at this debate from every angle... just give up.

 

 

So you are the arbiter of success... your lack of a comprehensible reason for PVP gear shows the vacancy of your ideas.... when you fail at presenting an argument you attack the person.

 

I have presented a multiple level rationalization which justifies each and every postulate. you have offered no constructive argument to support the continuation of a flawed system.

 

The single largest daily posting in this forum revolved around one thing. The exploitation of Ilum for valor.

 

The purpose of these exploiters was to obtain valor so they could use Battle Master gear.

 

The Purpose of Battle Master Gear? None...... It in necessary to enhances the overall PVP game play experience in a tangible way which can not be achieved through player driven mechanics like crafted gear. Like levels 1-49 level 50 should be no different.

[KurleyKilla]

So you are the arbiter of success... your lack of a comprehensible reason for PVP gear shows the vacancy of your ideas.... when you fail at presenting an argument you attack the person.

 

I have presented a multiple level rationalization which justifies each and every postulate. you have offered no constructive argument to support the continuation of a flawed system.

 

The single largest daily posting in this forum revolved around one thing. The exploitation of Ilum for valor.

 

The purpose of these exploiters was to obtain valor so they could use Battle Master gear.

 

The Purpose of Battle Master Gear? None...... It in necessary to enhances the overall PVP game play experience in a tangible way which can not be achieved through player driven mechanics like crafted gear. Like levels 1-49 level 50 should be no different.

 

actually I did post an argument earlier in the thread... You just had no response for it...

 

 

"

The crafting system does need to be perfected to make sure they are all usefull to some extent at every point in the game.

 

Completely getting rid of PVP gear does not solve that problem at all. That is a drastic, terrible idea that you clearly did not think through objectively.

 

Throughout the leveling process I have had a nice mixture of PVE/PVP and crafted gear. Which is a really nice thing to have... I don't have to grind all my gear from the same source.

 

When making suggestions like this you have to consider that, While you may not care if there are rewards for PVP, a massive percentage of the player population does care.

 

There are ways to exploit many aspects of this game, not just PVP rewards. Over the entire lifespan of this game, like many MMO's. There will be many exploits that come and go through patching and new content.

 

TL: DR: BEING REWARDED FOR YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS WITH GEAR, BE IT PVP OR PVE IS THE FOUNDATION OF AN MMO.

 

Seriously... You're the one who makes no sense on any level."

Edited January 26, 2012 by KurleyKilla

[JingleHell]

So you are the arbiter of success... your lack of a comprehensible reason for PVP gear shows the vacancy of your ideas.... when you fail at presenting an argument you attack the person.

 

I have presented a multiple level rationalization which justifies each and every postulate. you have offered no constructive argument to support the continuation of a flawed system.

 

The single largest daily posting in this forum revolved around one thing. The exploitation of Ilum for valor.

 

The purpose of these exploiters was to obtain valor so they could use Battle Master gear.

 

The Purpose of Battle Master Gear? None...... It in necessary to enhances the overall PVP game play experience in a tangible way which can not be achieved through player driven mechanics like crafted gear. Like levels 1-49 level 50 should be no different.

 

Removing PvP gear does nothing to remove a gear gap in PvP. Until you explain how a fresh 50 in greens from level 35 (most people call this a scrub, they tend to call it pro) has a realistic chance against a 50 in full Columi or Rakata, you've failed to offer a solution to the gear gap via the removal of PvP gear.

 

All you've done is force a merger of progression paths that has the potential to force "pure" PvP or PvE players to do both to complete dailies to keep up with the power curve for the one type of content they enjoy. You actually create a new real problem to people's enjoyment, without removing the old "problem" of unfair gear advantages.

 

Even if you try to argue removal of content based progression, through crafted gear being equally viable, you don't change the fact that the time and credits invested in the crafting progression will STILL favor people who have more play time.

 

You can't make a truly level playing field without removing progression from the game.

 

I eagerly await you ignoring these points and telling me my logic is flawed, or launching an ad hominem attack.

Edited January 26, 2012 by JingleHell

[DosPeros]

While we're at it, remove levels as well. All they do is create an unfair playing field. Remove all gear, aside from aesthetic differences. Everyone will be the same level, with the same stats and abilities will be identical in all but visuals across every class. Remove all talent points, consumables, buffs, and medpacs.

 

This will create a totally fair experience for every single person, no matter when they start, or how much they want to play.

 

Be prepared for complaints about hacks and exploits, most of which will be completely wrong, to flood this board instead of the current variety of QQ. Obviously, skill gaps will never be at fault, so all losses will be attributed to cheating or bugs.

 

I will ignore the silly flame in the first and last part,

 

One exploit I have witnessed recently is some guy has created a level 12 character which sits on a crate all day and auto harvests it. It is the crate on ilum near the jedi ruins.

 

when he was imp faction i would kill him now he changed it to rep and I cant anymore.

[Thrones]

That'd work, but i doubt those doing Nightmare difficulty pve would agree to that :<

[JingleHell]

I will ignore the silly flame in the first and last part,

 

One exploit I have witnessed recently is some guy has created a level 12 character which sits on a crate all day and auto harvests it. It is the crate on ilum near the jedi ruins.

 

when he was imp faction i would kill him now he changed it to rep and I cant anymore.

 

Any logic you can't refute is a silly flame. Got it. Do I need to break my point down to toddler level?

[DosPeros]

Ok genius please do........ I would love for you to educate me

[Kelticfury]

Wow..... the need of some to attack is amazing....

 

There was nothing in that post attacking you.

Pointing out the flaws in your logic yes.

 

Calling it an attack when someone disagrees with you without even the slightest hint of hostility just makes me think you don't even believe in your own original post.

 

Removing pvp gear because crafting can't make better, might as well say lets remove pve gear because crafting can't make it better. Which is indeed the reality of the situation.

[JingleHell]

Ok genius please do........ I would love for you to educate me

 

All gear-based progression, or: "Do stuff to get better gear", is going to mean that people who play more have better gear. It doesn't matter how your gear is better, it's still better. If it does anything besides look cool, and take any amount of work to get, the system will always be better for people who play more.

 

With me so far? I hope I'm not losing you, since this is apparently so complicated. Even if they remove all gear as incentive to do content, or "Get rid of gear from doing stuff", and make it crafting based, the time involved in getting materials and turning them into better gear, or "crafting", would still benefit people who spend more time playing. It just removes any reason to do content other than farming materials.

 

Get it?

 

So, the inevitable path your "logic" follows, from "remove gear based progression", leads to "all gear is equal", which leads to complaints about class balance. Once all classes are balanced, since people are generally bad at recognizing their own failures, you get nothing but a long chain of complaints about presumed exploits and hacks, because to accept responsibility for failure would require taking a hit to the ego, which most people can't.

 

Since I'm sure this won't make enough sense for you to bother responding, you'll prove that last point quite well.

[Kelticfury]

While stripping mods is an option it is still the method of attainment which is exploitable. It is exploitation which I seek to eliminate.

 

What does it matter if I have the exact same mods and attachments in orange armor or Battlemaster armor... the fact is it so overpowers anything a crafter can make that it makes crafting irrelevant.

 

So why isn't this thread in the crafting forums asking for crafting to be made more viable rather than asking to remove something from one portion of the game that is also a problem in the pve side of the game?

 

And moving mods from one item to another is hardly an exploit, its how mods are meant to be used, otherwise it would just be an unmoddable item from the start.

 

There are so many holes in your arguments that you are making swiss cheese jealous.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kelticfury

[Xandarous]

Reading these forums makes me straight up laugh sometimes.

 

To the OP, this is a game. Some people will like it and others will not. YES we all know there are aspects that can be improved. Some will, others will not.

 

MMOs are all about improving your character. Getting new gear to make you stronger. If everything was crafted gear then the whole point of the game would be finding new patterns as harder and harder content came out.

 

Sorry but new lvl 50s are just that...new lvl 50s and need to suck it up and grind pvp/pve gear like everyone else. If the gear was crafted they would still be either sitting around waiting for mats to craft stuff or out farming pve mobs to craft it. If mats were obtained via pvp then they would STILL be at a disadvantage to all the people with full crafted sets.

 

Long story short, the system in place might not be perfect but its generally where things need to be. The random token system for pvp needs tweaking, but other then that for a new game made by a company that has no real decent mmo experience its not completely worthless.

 

Add better warzones, optimize more code, reduce the randomness (tokens and crafting), buff crafting to the lvl of biochem, change ilum, and a few other things here and there and they will have one hell of a game.

 

I am giving them time to improve. If you do not like the system do not play. And stop calling it cheating and exploiting, that just makes you sound like a bitter and angry douche.

[Skitlz]

Do away with pve players trying to ruin pvp

 

Amen.

[fungihoujo]

What they should have done was put in craftable mods that have the expertise stat- even if they were only the 22 versions which are indeed lower level than the ones in BM gear- they would be as good as the blue pvp set at least, and offer people a starting point into pvp.

 

Right now? You've got zero expertise going into 600 expertise fights and there is NOTHING you can do about it beyond praying to the RNG gods, or very, very slowly getting Centurian gear.

[CrunchyGremlin]

Reading these forums makes me straight up laugh sometimes.

 

To the OP, this is a game. Some people will like it and others will not. YES we all know there are aspects that can be improved. Some will, others will not.

 

MMOs are all about improving your character. Getting new gear to make you stronger. If everything was crafted gear then the whole point of the game would be finding new patterns as harder and harder content came out.

...

 

You should play some different MMO's.

MMO's are about the story you make in it. The rest of it is a means to create that story. Once the story is gone there is nothing left. If the story is all about gear you really should consider a different game.

 

you might consider the Frozen Throne mod for old Counter strike. Hell of a lot of fun.

[KurleyKilla]

You should play some different MMO's.

MMO's are about the story you make in it. The rest of it is a means to create that story. Once the story is gone there is nothing left. If the story is all about gear you really should consider a different game.

 

you might consider the Frozen Throne mod for old Counter strike. Hell of a lot of fun.

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you're playing the wrong genre man... Story in MMO's up until this point are generally a backdrop for the game world. Not an integral or important part of the day to day playing of the game. This is one of the few/only MMO I have seen that has made the questing and story this important to the core of the game experience.

 

If you really love a GOOD narrative there are soooo many better genres and games to consider. Witcher 2, Deus Ex, and pretty much every single player RPG has a more cohesive story that, unlike this MMO isn't littered with fetch quests and kill X number of mobs, while still pretending to be part of a larger "interesting" story.

 

Sounds to me like you run around the game world playing pretend, building your own story behind your character. Because honestly if you find this games narrative stimulating... You have horrible taste.

Edited January 26, 2012 by KurleyKilla

[Nodulo]

So the beaten, dead horse comes back to life in thread 103476zillion....

 

Notice the pvp community dosen't attack the "hardcore raiders" about how it's unfair that a person who pvp's exclusively and has nothing but expertise gear isn't invited to nightmare mode ops because of insufficient gear.

 

No, because the raider spent the time to gear and learn appropriately for the harder encounters of said NM mode raiding.

 

p.s. Many (ahem) do both pvp/raid with great sucsess, both doing hard-modes and rocking BM pvp duds.

[DosPeros]

Removing PvP gear does nothing to remove a gear gap in PvP. Until you explain how a fresh 50 in greens from level 35 (most people call this a scrub, they tend to call it pro) has a realistic chance against a 50 in full Columi or Rakata, you've failed to offer a solution to the gear gap via the removal of PvP gear.

 

All you've done is force a merger of progression paths that has the potential to force "pure" PvP or PvE players to do both to complete dailies to keep up with the power curve for the one type of content they enjoy. You actually create a new real problem to people's enjoyment, without removing the old "problem" of unfair gear advantages.

 

Even if you try to argue removal of content based progression, through crafted gear being equally viable, you don't change the fact that the time and credits invested in the crafting progression will STILL favor people who have more play time.

 

You can't make a truly level playing field without removing progression from the game.

 

I eagerly await you ignoring these points and telling me my logic is flawed, or launching an ad hominem attack.

 

 

1.)It is really quite simple.... Player crafted materials should always be the best.

 

2.)PVE/PVP are not separate progressions now so removing top end PVP or Drop gear does not, as I see it change this game dynamic. I have no problem with drop gear and pvp gear being good, I only have a problem with it being the best gear. I also have a problem with the artificial nature of attainment open to mass exploitation. I did not get the links but I saw, as I am sure you have the mass valor trades and ilum base camping videos.

 

3.) Your last point has the most merit and I agree it would tend to favor those who have more time to devote to the game. But if you have a healthy market economy then plenty of crafters will make the items needed at an affordable price. The key would be that if the Item modifications were built with stats based upon random generators then it would be unlikely any single gear template or stat or ability template would be the same for two players in the same class much less different factions. This would create true diversity in the player base population. As it stands once everyone has the exact same gear with the exact same template the difference of who is better at lvl 50 pvp, is who clicks buttons faster who has the better internet connection and video card.

 

 

How many Unholy light sabers of Darth Malgus should be in the world? Two since he was a dual wielder.....

 

When EQ2 unleashed the Mythical gear bomb. I can't remember how many times in a night the whole "World stood still and held it's breath" We did it so often that most people passed out from lack of oxygen.

 

It became such a joke just like lvl 50 pvp is now. I just did a quick review and many of the post today revolve around the poor nature of lvl 50pvp.

[DosPeros]

So the beaten, dead horse comes back to life in thread 103476zillion....

 

Notice the pvp community dosen't attack the "hardcore raiders" about how it's unfair that a person who pvp's exclusively and has nothing but expertise gear isn't invited to nightmare mode ops because of insufficient gear.

 

No, because the raider spent the time to gear and learn appropriately for the harder encounters of said NM mode raiding.

 

p.s. Many (ahem) do both pvp/raid with great sucsess, both doing hard-modes and rocking BM pvp duds.

 

 

 

Sorry , but I just started reading the forums and did not look for other posts regarding the topic. If it bores you so much why bother?

Edited January 26, 2012 by DosPeros

[Lord_Infernus]

There are so many holes in your arguments that you are making swiss cheese jealous.

 

lawl?

[DosPeros]

[Nodulo]

It bothers me because of the instant gratification everyone expects.

 

Well I dinged 50, I should just be able to 1v1 someone that spent the last month at 50 grinding, do dailys and any open world killing possible to get the best possible gear for pvp.

It takes time and you have to adapt to the system that is in place. With that said I think there will be so many (casual) 50's running pvp it will all even out. Patience.

 

To digress to my original point folks aren't up in arms that a geared out pvp'er really isn't equiped (properly) for nightmare mode encounters in ops nevermind learning the scripted fights. Time pve vs. time pvp.

It's really not that appley and orangey if you ask me.

[DosPeros]

There was nothing in that post attacking you.

Pointing out the flaws in your logic yes.

 

Calling it an attack when someone disagrees with you without even the slightest hint of hostility just makes me think you don't even believe in your own original post.

 

Removing pvp gear because crafting can't make better, might as well say lets remove pve gear because crafting can't make it better. Which is indeed the reality of the situation.

 

 

I'm not sure how it is where you come from but where I'm from you say someones argument is "rubbish" and then don't give specifics..... that is a personal attack.

[Adacian]

While we're at it, remove levels as well. All they do is create an unfair playing field. Remove all gear, aside from aesthetic differences. Everyone will be the same level, with the same stats and abilities will be identical in all but visuals across every class. Remove all talent points, consumables, buffs, and medpacs.

 

This will create a totally fair experience for every single person, no matter when they start, or how much they want to play.

 

Be prepared for complaints about hacks and exploits, most of which will be completely wrong, to flood this board instead of the current variety of QQ. Obviously, skill gaps will never be at fault, so all losses will be attributed to cheating or bugs.

 

 

 

The only game that has gotten character advancement right is EVE. Leveling is a paradigm that gaming companies are stuck in and none of them seem to notice its a failed system. All leveling MMO eventually dead end your character with nothing to do. You see max level characters standing around the city or base waiting for the next raid. Until that raid happens they have nothing to do other than Troll general chat for amusement.

[CrunchyGremlin]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you're playing the wrong genre man... Story in MMO's up until this point are generally a backdrop for the game world. Not an integral or important part of the day to day playing of the game. This is one of the few/only MMO I have seen that has made the questing and story this important to the core of the game experience.

 

If you really love a GOOD narrative there are soooo many better genres and games to consider. Witcher 2, Deus Ex, and pretty much every single player RPG has a more cohesive story that, unlike this MMO isn't littered with fetch quests and kill X number of mobs, while still pretending to be part of a larger "interesting" story.

 

Sounds to me like you run around the game world playing pretend, building your own story behind your character. Because honestly if you find this games narrative stimulating... You have horrible taste.

 

 

the game examples you give are not stories YOU create. They are stories you experience.

In MMO's YOU create the stories.

 

sound to me like you are and expect to be the story of the carrot chaser.

Is that really what you want to be?

 

Perhaps you just dont understand the story you create because you are so immersed you are living it as part of the game.

Its just a really simplistic story. Very low imagination and mostly handed to you on a platter.

[Xandarous]

If you would bother to read and take in what I posted you would have stopped posting by now. I guess my logic was too hard for you to understand and I can see now why people lacking in brains keep posting.