Anyone else think SWToR is too easy and more of the same?

[bennyhana]

Just wanted to say i wish i had the time for those kinds of games now adays... FFXI was the best mmo experience of my life. While most people think it was killing countless mobs for hours, Most players found it a way to make new friends meet new people and group for hours and hours with countless chatter,excitement,exploration,and what ever else. Every small accomplishment was soooo rewarding. Now we have groups that grab a couple people, blast through fairly easy elites, kill the boss,get some decent loot, kthxbye. Not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, seeing as i dont have the personal time i used to have. But i played early release.. before the game actually came OUT we had lvl 45's running around.. really?

there really isnt any sense of a challenge when you can lvl to 50 entirely by yourself.

 

i miss a real challenge, REAL party cooperation(not just spamming all sorts of abilities), and real penalties for failing.

Now before anyone gets upset i'm not saying End game doesnt require cooperation, and that its not challenging. It was just.. Different. swtor rocks tho

[DarthKhaos]

The second point is around the MM part of the MMORPG...what is the point of paying a subscription to play with other people when most of what you do doesn't even require or involve them? The way PVP, warzones, and instances are structured....you might as well be connecting to a 3rd party matchmaking service for a co-op minigame and have the main game be standalone KOTOR3

 

Well I'd like to state just because the game doesn't force you to party doesn't mean that is isn't massively multiplayer (and i'm not talking about in its rawest definition of the word). Large and small communities are formed. Bonds of friendships and temporary alliances.

 

The funny thing about what you said at the end where I highlighted is people are pushing more and more for a fully automated cross server looking for group system. I refuse to call it a tool because you use a tool to do something a tool doesn't do it for you. I however do make great friends currently with players I battled with in a warzone. You notice the good players and you end up laughing or crying together about the last match and end up becoming friend only the way people bond after a "life and death battle".

[Spartanik]

On a side note, how many people employed at BioWare do you think even played the original mmos? By the look of it, I'd say not very many.

Some did some even worked in ultima online.

its just today isnt yesterday my friend. Diferent circustances, diferent audiences, diferent producers ( lucasarts/ EA etc) diferent mmo market reality. They need to adapt and meat its goals that were decided before hand. That is why MMOs look kinda more of the same. Its not a gaming industry problem is also a global problem. Mainstream movies more of the same ( cant stand anymore super heros movies, but hey they sell like cakes) Music all the same if you look at mainstream, overall the arts are in crysis, when you look at mainstream. Also people seemed to leave at fast paced speed, they dont have time for anything anymore.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Spartanik

[darthjerro]

 

I am disappointed in how easy it is to level.

 

Everything is too easy.

 

Im lvl 45, just starting hoth. My class quest is lvl 36 0r 37, its grey. Its been grey since mid 30's.

 

I love to FP, i do space combat, i do EVERY quest on every planet ( why would i skip quests, its a new game, i want to see them all ) , I DONT pvp ( imagine if i did, id be lvl 50 on hoth ).

 

Why is leveling so easy, and why do we level so fast? Is there a need to level this fast? Whats the rush to 50? Wows BC xpack was the best mmo experience ive had with this genre in a long time. It actually required you to use your brain, or keep dying...

 

Kids, you now have your easy gameplay and entitlement, enjoy.......Im going to replay dark souls again, atleast theres a game designed for gamers....

[Mercia]

Actually if you get complacent you can actually come a cropper long before you would in any other MMO tbh

[Maeleena]

MMO's will always be too easy for some, because the developers have to dumb them down enough to allow even the dumbest person the ability to finish it. If you want a true challenge, play a single player game on the hardest setting, because there the developers can make them hard as heck, because they already have the mouth-breathing easy mode that people can use if needed to beat the game.

[Davorn]

It is easy at times. Sure. But I still enjoy the game as a whole. It has been a long time since I've enjoyed an MMO so much. Since EQ. I'll be here for a long while.

[darthjerro]

MMO's have been taken over by casuals and carebears. It just is what it is.

 

And triple-A developers continue to chase the dream of WoW-like success and believe that to do so they have to go after those casuals, nevermind the fact that back when WoW released, "casual" was someone who played 20 hours a week, and now "casual" is someone who plays half that.

 

More and more casuals want MMO's to cater to the fact that they really don't have time to play an MMO. Rather than doing everyone a favor and just finding a different hobby, they demand that everything be really milktoast easy so that they don't feel like they are somehow disadvantaged.

 

Wow, best post ive read in a long, long time. This is EXACTLY how i feel and have felt since blizz broke my heart with wow by bringing out wrath of the casual king...

 

Just for the poster that said he was 30 and liked the casual go go go mentality, im 34, also work 50 hours a week ( some weeks more ) but dont have kids ( hey mate, that was your choice to have kids, im selfish, i like my alone time to much. ill have kids one day so dont blame us that you have kids and dont have time to play , your choice remember ).

 

So just because people like this CHOOSE to start families , CHOOSE to do other things , WHY should this impact our gaming? Why do gaming companies CATER to these people ? You cant play for more then 10 hours a week, FIND ANOTHER HOBBY....Why must the true gamers be the one to always suffer?????

[darthjerro]

I Good lord man that's a part time job.

 

ITS NOT A GOD DAMN JOB MATE. ITS OUR HOBBY.

 

I am so sick of this BS line getting thrown around everywhere, its a job...

 

I also play tennis 8-10 hours a week IS THAT A PART TIME JOB ???

 

Doing something we enjoy AS OUR HOBBY is not a job, you understand!!

 

Do people that sloth around watching tv 20-30 hours a week get called out for having a " 2nd job '?

 

Spell it .....H O B B Y..something done for enjoyment....

 

Why exactly do you play games for? Is it just something to pass time with??

[knightblaster]

MMO's have been taken over by casuals and carebears. It just is what it is.

 

And triple-A developers continue to chase the dream of WoW-like success and believe that to do so they have to go after those casuals, nevermind the fact that back when WoW released, "casual" was someone who played 20 hours a week, and now "casual" is someone who plays half that.

 

More and more casuals want MMO's to cater to the fact that they really don't have time to play an MMO. Rather than doing everyone a favor and just finding a different hobby, they demand that everything be really milktoast easy so that they don't feel like they are somehow disadvantaged.

 

This is basically backwards.

 

The gaming industry (investors, publishers, and development studios mostly as well) doesn't want *fewer* people playing its games, it wants *more* people playing its games. This is good business sense. As a result, they will continue to cater to "casual" gamers, whatever that market looks like at the time. The business model of catering to fewer customers only works when you have a pricing premium (e.g., Mercedes, Porsche) over the competition that caters to the "average". And as far as I can see, I don't see "MMOs catering to hardcore players" being able to charge $30 instead of $15 as a pricing premium the way any other low volume high-end product does. So, of course, they are going to try to target more and more players, which means more and more accessibility and, generally, fewer games (at least AAA games) that are oriented toward the hardcore like EQ or original UO were.

 

There will always be indie games that will cater to the hardcore. Some of these have gotten popular enough in their niche (EVE was indie when it started). But the big boys are swinging for the big markets, and Activision is no different from EA in this respect. It just makes business sense. It isn't the fault of the casual gamers -- most gamers are casual in any genre, and the industry knows that (and wants that .. they actually want to reach "regular people" as customers to broaden their revenue). It's a simple fact that the industry wants to sell games to as many people as possible, and will continue to design accordingly.

[big_aug]

Well, I did it. I bought and downloaded EQ. Going to start this weekend.

 

If anyone would like to join me, send me a PM. We can do the Refer a Friend thing for bonuses.

 

I'll probably run two or three characters at once. If anyone joins me, we shouldn't have much trouble doing anything.

 

Going to do a Wizard + Bard and maybe a Cleric too. Anyone wanna be a tank?

 

Like I said, PM me if interested.

Edited January 27, 2012 by big_aug

[PibbyPib]

GOD NO, I never want to go back to EQ masochism.

 

Die, chase your corpse. But recruit a frigging army first, because if you died with the gear on, you'll almost certainly die naked, and if that happens, it's goodbye gear forever.

 

Good-bye level! I sucked too bad and the game decided I needed a demotion!

 

Let's all get in a group, stand in one little corner of a dungeon, and silently hack away at about 3000 slightly larger than average possum things for about 3 hours so you can get one bubble of experience at level 20.

 

No. Thank you.

[PibbyPib]

On second thought, the kind of difficult I *did* like in an MMORPG was in Anarchy Online. If you sat down and did a little math, reviewed implants, and figured out a progression of buffs that would allow you to equip those implants, you could step up to the next tier of implants and start figuring that out. After awhile, you could have a seriously overpowered character.

 

It was a pretty twisted maze of rules you had to navigate, but if you figured a path through it, you could be taking on level 80's when you were level 25.

 

THAT was fun.

Edited January 27, 2012 by PibbyPib

[Baracca]

Does anyone else want to go back to the Everquest style of grinding mobs in groups?

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

 

I shouldn't need a full group to kill a green because "magically" 4 of them are glued together (even though they are standing 20 feet apart)

 

No thank you.

 

Do I wish the exp gain was less across the board? Yes. I would have liked it to be, complete all quests per planet and still need to PVP and do space missions before "qualifying" for the next planet.

[PibbyPib]

Do I wish the exp gain was less across the board? Yes. I would have liked it to be, complete all quests per planet and still need to PVP and do space missions before "qualifying" for the next planet.

 

I'm with you there. There are multiple ways to get those levels already-- it seems weird to have extra storyline missions on a planet when you *also* have methods like space missions and PvP to gain levels. And exploration, of course-- I get a fair amount of xp just poking around, seeing what's behind that tree, killing things for curiosity's sake, etc.

[JustCuz]

If you want something "hardcore" join a competive game community. There are plenty of FPS, RTS, MOBAs and fighting games to learn and get good at. Spending hours to level up does not a hard game make. Spending hours practicing combos, troup manipulation, twitch reflexes, etc however...

[djsmileey]

Re-purposed this post to apply here.

 

I remember Molten Core and Blackwing's Lair being the challenge for quite a long time. I also remember being so excited when we downed the bosses, the payout and experience is not the same as it once was.

 

With Cataclysm, it was a new set of bosses every 3 months, and those were extremely easy to kill, so they made hard mode and normal. On top of that, every 3 months, all gear prior became nearly obsolete. Personally I did not care for this method of game play. Hurry up and race to the top and then farm it till you’re bored of it and we'll give you something new.

 

Why instances can’t grow, or adapt, evolve into something better is beyond me. Why it is always rinse and repeat. One of the best parts of creating a story driven MMO is you can take the story in whatever direction you like.

 

I certainly didn't log nearly 1000 hours on ME2 because I found the Download center the point of interest. Granted this is a single player game, they both use choice selection and your opinion play into the story. I doubt I am alone when saying that it's not unheard of to think that multiple people will enjoy leveling at least 2 characters.

 

In wow, I had 5 60's; then when 70 was top, I had 6 70's; When 80 was top, I had 5 80's; When 85 was top, I had close to 8 GEARED 85's. I am already 50 on one character and reasonably geared. I am currently working on a second 50 on republic side and it's my favorite thus far. I am still very excited to play Sith Sorcerer, and Imperial Agent. They will probably be my next 1 or 2. But I am enjoying republic so far as a smuggler.

 

I recently saw close to 25-30 Empire players in the span of an hour on Alderan. I did my best to gank them all, but alas...one or two were able to swing back and take me down. I had a blast, and it baffles me to see so many cry about server balance and how much they dislike the lack of things to do. Only to then outright refuse to try the other features and claim it's a poor game.

 

It's tiresome to see so many fret over things like bugs, and features missing from a game that is new to them. If they provide every single thing that a player wants right away, how will they ever have anything to release.

 

Don't any of you remember what it's like to see a feature being released and being excited about it? This gimme gimme, now now mentality has hit the internet like a flash mob and it's SO TIRED. We get it, you know all the answers!

 

The game may be easy, but it has it's hard features available. Overall, just give it time.

 

Anywho, I digress..

 

*Cheers*

Edited January 27, 2012 by djsmileey

[Norbix]

If you want something "hardcore" join a competive game community. There are plenty of FPS, RTS, MOBAs and fighting games to learn and get good at. Spending hours to level up does not a hard game make. Spending hours practicing combos, troup manipulation, twitch reflexes, etc however...

 

I don't understand this attitude. I hate how MMO's have devolved over time because of lazy people. I'm not sure why MMO's have to be treated differently than ever other single game out there. As the game progresses, it gets more difficult. I wonder if lazy MMO'rs would enjoy single player games that wouldn't require any effort from start to finish. Games should get more difficult towards the end game, but this one just stays faceroll the entire way through. It's no longer about accomplishment, it's about doing... and that gets stale quite quickly.

 

Just my opinion.

[jaypis]

Heh, I don't think MMO players of this generation can handle EverQuest style gameplay, specially when it comes to the death penalties. You'd just get complaints all the same, so no matter what it's either, it's too easy or it's too hard.

[trezy]

I completely agree with the OP. People seem to think that the rat"gear"race at end game is the end-all-be-all of every MMO.

When I first hit 60 back in Vanilla WoW, it was exciting because there was a sense of the unknown still. Sure, blizzard may have catered to the all raiding mentality later down the line...but some of the most enjoyable moments for me, were things like leveling alts(figuring out which guy was going to be my main), exploring the non-linear side of WoW, and world PvP.

Then all of that changed as it became more mainstream. Eventually in cata I started Hardcore raiding; and believe me, raiding with 9 virgins who only gawked over gear score and purples got old FAST. It was like a competition inside of an MMO...which to me completely destroyed the immersiveness of which I held so dearly in Vanilla WoW.

If you want competition, play MOBAS or FPS.

 

I don't even want to play my level 50 vanguard; raiding seems more like a chore then a recreational activity.

 

other than that, the game is very refreshing

Edited January 27, 2012 by trezy

[JustCuz]

I don't understand this attitude. I hate how MMO's have devolved over time because of lazy people. I'm not sure why MMO's have to be treated differently than ever other single game out there. As the game progresses, it gets more difficult. I wonder if lazy MMO'rs would enjoy single player games that wouldn't require any effort from start to finish. Games should get more difficult towards the end game, but this one just stays faceroll the entire way through. It's no longer about accomplishment, it's about doing... and that gets stale quite quickly.

 

Just my opinion.

 

MMOs haven't really changed. The difference is how many things you have to kill to progress. In all honnesty I do miss the rush of being the puller in FFXI, but that was a fun job to circumvent a bad design.

[JustCuz]

Heh, I don't think MMO players of this generation can handle EverQuest style gameplay, specially when it comes to the death penalties. You'd just get complaints all the same, so no matter what it's either, it's too easy or it's too hard.

 

You mean hug the zone line so you could avoid dying? Higher death penalties only made people take the safest and most boring rout possible.

[Norbix]

MMOs haven't really changed. The difference is how many things you have to kill to progress. In all honnesty I do miss the rush of being the puller in FFXI, but that was a fun job to circumvent a bad design.

 

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about....

[JustCuz]

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about....

 

Well then enlighten me. Tell me where the challange used to be in MMOs. I'm quite curious.

[jayderyu]

It's the same old theme park design with some awesome Bioware story telling. I'm not playing this game because I want an already designed game. I'm playing this game because it's Star Wars and Bioware.

 

I know some people have issues of "it's the same as X". honestly though. How many Call of Duty?, Halo?, Mario and other franshchise games out their. Their are a massive plethora of FPS games. Why do people keep on by them. Because of themes, genres, tastes(chocolates, vanilla or strawberry). Yeah for most of the game it walks the same path. But it's a flavour I want more.

 

 

As for easy. Well I'm just not a person that believes that combat HP grinding belongs in SW. I would prefer that Dodge ratings were closer to 80% and accuracy down to 20%. But increase damage 8 times. Make the game miss often, but very lethal when damage is successful. however such a change is impossible as everything is already based around the HP grind. HP grind is easy. Once you tactic it's always easy.