Anyone else think SWToR is too easy and more of the same?

[genesiser]

If you want difficulty while leveling, just fight without your companion.

 

But if you do that then you'll probably complain because your char is too weak with out your companion and the game is too hard.

[PjPablo]

Completely agree with OP. This game and most of the genre now caters to the ultra-casual player. This is also why the FTP model has caught on as well. For those of us that enjoy a more challenging and time-consuming game we are willing to dedicate the time and money. For those that are super-casual, they are not. If this game doesn't have something that will attract more of the 'MMO fanatic' I don't see how the sub approach will work in the long run.

[Finious]

That's what we're saying; they've gotten too easy.

 

WAR and AoC were both much harder than this; so was pre-BC WoW. This feels more like DAoC, after they put in the personal instances. Actually, it feels alot like that.

 

How do you reconcile this, black bisector? Wouldn't farming green perpendiculars be more satisfying? And don't throw any of that double silver junk in my face; double silver packs are so rare, but really the issue is how they've integrated the content.

 

One thing I don't see anyone pay any heed to is the advanced quest tracker. No one agrees that this really sucks the adventure out of questing? As annoying as it was to check thottbot or alakhazam when a WoW quest wasn't explicit enough in its description, it was still much better than being shown where every quest objective is. It's not even really an option to turn it off in this game, because the quest log information is so sparse because the advanced quest tracker allows it to be.

 

 

Ohh right I completely forgot about that. Wow, lol the days of ...."Adventure somewhere north past the old windmill and across the river. There you will find the half tree in the forest of elves. Play this flute in the right location near the tree and your search will be final."

 

Cant decide if I miss those days. I guess the big difference was, back then you could almost level killing every mob on the way in your adventure.

 

Tho I can say that SWTOR's mobkill/exp rate is much better than most these days.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Finious

[Arkerus]

Completely agree with OP. This game and most of the genre now caters to the ultra-casual player. This is also why the FTP model has caught on as well. For those of us that enjoy a more challenging and time-consuming game we are willing to dedicate the time and money. For those that are super-casual, they are not. If this game doesn't have something that will attract more of the 'MMO fanatic' I don't see how the sub approach will work in the long run.

 

So what you're saying is...

 

Attracting a ton of people who are casual and willing to pay $15 a month is worse than attracting the few super hardcore who also pay $15 a month.

 

How does that make sense in your eyes? Let me guess...you think the "backbone" of an MMO is the super hardcore players right? And thats why 80% of WoW players have never even been in a raid? So again, your theory is bunk.

 

There ARE hardmodes and raids for the more hardcore players.

 

Can I ask, have you beat every hard mode in the game?

 

And for the record, there are some damn frustratingly difficult fights in this game. There just isn't 1000 of them. I have no problem with that.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Arkerus

[Benagain]

That's what we're saying; they've gotten too easy.

 

WAR and AoC were both much harder than this; so was pre-BC WoW. This feels more like DAoC, after they put in the personal instances. Actually, it feels alot like that.

 

How do you reconcile this, black bisector? Wouldn't farming green perpendiculars be more satisfying? And don't throw any of that double silver junk in my face; double silver packs are so rare, but really the issue is how they've integrated the content.

 

One thing I don't see anyone pay any heed to is the advanced quest tracker. No one agrees that this really sucks the adventure out of questing? As annoying as it was to check thottbot or alakhazam when a WoW quest wasn't explicit enough in its description, it was still much better than being shown where every quest objective is. It's not even really an option to turn it off in this game, because the quest log information is so sparse because the advanced quest tracker allows it to be. Further, having to check one of those sites, or even just spamming general chat for an answer, is a more social activity than following the advanced quest tracker; years of thottbot comments actually proved to be interesting sometimes, and did play into a sense of community.

 

I like the quest tracker, but I don't need it to play SWTOR. I did need it in wow (actually I used carbonite quest). The differnce for me and why I needed it in WoW was because I didnt really care enough about the lore or tht story to actually read all thte quests. I tried, but I couldnt make myself care.

 

One of the reasons I'm enjoying SW is the story is interesting to me. I dont need the exact point given on a map. I just need the name of the area labled so I know I'm going to the right cave or bulding. This time around I was paying attention so I know what I need to do.

[Kryp-Tyk]

I don't think having your actions reflect a more visible impact in the world would be a bad thing necessarily, but would it be enough change in itself to satisfy those "why can't mmos play like they used to" players?

 

Not bashing your idea. I would really like to know if this would make people happy, or cause some problems that I can't predict. I don't see how it would harm my enjoyment of the game so why not.

 

In combination with some additional gameplay options it certainly would help break up the linear feel of everything. Say for example on voss you could actually build faction with one side and it legitimately altered your questing options, accessability to towns/resources, and npc hostility/friendliness to you, etc.

 

Take that same concept, apply liberally across worlds, and youd have some interesting choices to make that you have to live with later. As it stands now, regardless of what you do nothing actually changes.

[Eonz]

tl;dr.... it's different enough for me to be a founder and unique enough to hold my interest for the next few months... SW ftw

[Ansultares]

"Adventure somewhere north passed the old windmill and across the river. There you will find the half tree in the forest of elves. Play this flute in the right location near the tree and your search will be final."

I mean, it can be a little more mature than that, but basically yeah.

 

WAR actually had some really good quest text, and GamesWorkshop did a great job facilitating Mythic in implementing lore. Unfortunately, the advanced quest tracker completely undermined this. It didn't help that they became billed as some sort of PvP/RvR game, when the content clearly speaks to a more PvE/BG approach akin to WoW. If they had actually put in some good instances, and done some better tweaking of their public quests, it would have had strong PvE (though their PvE was super super buggy).

 

The point is, advanced quest tracker is probably one of the most cancerous casual-friendly features to be put into a game. Which is amusing, because the casuals always claim they like the story, environment, etc. more, but because they're always complaining about how little time they actually have, games are now being designed already propped up by something as soul-sucking as advanced quest tracker.

 

And what's really the point of developing a detailed world when people are just going to pass it by on their way to some quest objective already identified and highlighted on the map for them by the advanced quest tracker? They probably even have a menu open, likely the map, so they're not even watching what they're passing.

[SupremeJim]

Also an old EQ vet here. Was my first MMO and though I had some really hard times during those 7 years but overcoming them was part of the fun. It was honestly the funnest MMO I have ever played and always will be.

 

Someday it would be nice to have that again but I doubt it will happen. My life doesn't really allow for the time thats needed to excel at that anymore.

[PjPablo]

So what you're saying is...

 

Attracting a ton of people who are casual and willing to pay $15 a month is worse than attracting the few super hardcore who also pay $15 a month

 

What I am saying is that they WON'T pay the $15 a month. That is the problem. The casual player will look at this like a single player game and ask themselves why am I paying $15 a month? To me the move to super-casual MMOs and the move to FTP are linked.

 

Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Time will tell. I just struggle with the speed to max level, the speed to BIS gear, the speed to BM, etc etc etc. It's all too easy.

[TonyACT]

What I am saying is that they WON'T pay the $15 a month. That is the problem. The casual player will look at this like a single player game and ask themselves why am I paying $15 a month? To me the move to super-casual MMOs and the move to FTP are linked.

 

Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Time will tell. I just struggle with the speed to max level, the speed to BIS gear, the speed to BM, etc etc etc. It's all too easy.

 

I am a casual player - and I personally think things move too fast here. I can't see myself staying more than 2-3 months. I played EQ for 4 years, but Alternate Advancement and other systems there always gave me something to do at whatever rate I wanted.

[_Ender__Wiggin_]

WTS SoW at EC tunnel entrance. Donations accepted but not required.

 

Those were the days. It's not just nostalgia. I played the Fippy Darkpaw progression server from the start not too long ago. Despite the graphics and age, I enjoyed playing that more than any other shiny mmo that has come out in recent years. God forbid I need to actually take out a pen and paper to write down the quest objectives, or trial and error recipes etc.

 

It's not for everyone, but that's okay. I rather prefer it that way.

 

I'm afraid those days are long gone now. One would be wise to take some of the better aspects out of EQ and EQ2 and implement them into modern games.

 

I used to call WoW, Everquest/EQ2 Lite. Now, everything has become a watered down version of the past.

 

You're not alone OP. I see thousands of posts across the internet on gaming forums and mmo sites begging for something like the original EQ. Maybe one day it will happen. If I had the money, I'd develop it.

 

On a side note, how many people employed at BioWare do you think even played the original mmos? By the look of it, I'd say not very many.

[Benagain]

In combination with some additional gameplay options it certainly would help break up the linear feel of everything. Say for example on voss you could actually build faction with one side and it legitimately altered your questing options, accessability to towns/resources, and npc hostility/friendliness to you, etc.

 

Take that same concept, apply liberally across worlds, and youd have some interesting choices to make that you have to live with later. As it stands now, regardless of what you do nothing actually changes.

 

I could get behind that idea. However, I dont think it would be widely accepted. It's not a gaming issue it's a commitment issue. People nowadays don't want to be stuck with a permanent desicion. It's become the American way to have a way to undo the results of your action.

 

Decide that you don't want to me stuck with the same person the rest of your life? Get divorced. Don't like the way your face has aged because you frowned your whole life? Get a face lift. Got pregnant because you did't care about the consequences that Saturday night?.... you get my point.

 

I like your idea myself. Put it in the suggestion box and lets hope enough people can support it to lift off.

[Arkerus]

What I am saying is that they WON'T pay the $15 a month. That is the problem. The casual player will look at this like a single player game and ask themselves why am I paying $15 a month? To me the move to super-casual MMOs and the move to FTP are linked.

 

Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Time will tell. I just struggle with the speed to max level, the speed to BIS gear, the speed to BM, etc etc etc. It's all too easy.

 

What speed?

 

Speed for people who don't leave their computers. I've been playing since early release day 1.

 

I think time will show a casual philosophy pays off.

 

WoW proved that. This game has a ton of content right now anyway. Speed isn't the issue. Speed is fine as long as TOR can keep producing content.

[ZedFighter]

If you're leveling too fast, you're trying too hard.

 

It's taking me forever to level because I'm enjoying the journey. I'm not some narrow minded, tunnel visioned, omg I need to hit lvl cap asap kind of person.

 

Pace yourself or pay the price. This is the first mmo that I decided before I even bought it that I would enjoy the ride to level cap and not grind it out like some mouth breathing basement dweller with nothing better to do. And I'm really, really enjoying the game this way.

[lucasomega]

I miss the days of MMOs giving you a direction and a map. That's it. You'd check the map and say alright I gotta head over in this are to find what this quest wants. Now it's a freaking dot on every quest related item! Open the map and it's just there. Coordinates and everything.

 

I miss being worried about death. Now, I actually use it as an advantage over groups of mobs, or to quickly navigate to the next area. Why run across the map? You can just jump off this cliff and spawn at the med center you wanted to go to!

 

I've found little reason to ever group up before endgame. I massacre everything solo, and when I quest with my buddies it's just a crazy sprint to see who can tag the next group first. Half the time we're all fighting separate groups because it's faster to finish quests that way. Why go group to group when half the group can't get a shot off before the targets are all dead? I pulled four groups of mobs on a pug once (like 18 mobs in all) and scared the **** out of the group. Not one of us came close to dying. They just laughed after and said do it again!

 

Don't mistake me, I'm enjoying the hell out of this game. Stories, environments, animations, music (when it decides to come around for a visit), voice acting... it's all really good, but man is there a serious lack of challenge overall. They really put the focus on the individual (not surprising, heroic personal stories) and have the group/social features as a second thought which is weird for an MMO. I'm not talking about endgame, just the days of gameplay leading up to it.

[Jswizzle]

This game will be huge in the casual market. They really tried to give lots of different types of players what they wanted. For those of us with nostalgia for the old days, we can go back to all those MMOs from the 90s. They still exist.

 

Nobody is going to match Original Everquest for some people. . It's not because of the slick game play it's because of the psychology the players. Having that first MMO experience where you are blown away bring on a lot of different feelings. When EQ came out MMO players were dying for something HUGE with good graphics. They designed the game to literally suck peoples lives away with epic quests, random spawns on long timers, no instances, and terrible grinding.

 

Players just don't want that anymore. We want to have fun, and not waste time in games anymore. There is nothing wrong with that. It's not watered down to take away the wasted time.

[lucasomega]

If you're leveling too fast, you're trying too hard.

 

It's taking me forever to level because I'm enjoying the journey. I'm not some narrow minded, tunnel visioned, omg I need to hit lvl cap asap kind of person.

 

Pace yourself or pay the price. This is the first mmo that I decided before I even bought it that I would enjoy the ride to level cap and not grind it out like some mouth breathing basement dweller with nothing better to do. And I'm really, really enjoying the game this way.

 

Whoa, no way dude. That was incredibly rude. There's a difference between enjoying the story (which the OP admits he does) and steamrolling through it. Judging from the post, I'd say he's the opposite of a rush to the level cap player. There was really no reason for you to be such a jerk.

[Veimi]

No, just no.

[Jetflair]

I think SWTOR can be hard. It really depends on leveling. If you got all quests you do green its really easy if you also know your class.

 

Way SWTOR seems to be made is that you get easily so much experience if you do one place that you end 1-2 levels higher than next places mobs and quests.

 

There is however huge difference being on same or lower level than above it. Doing yellow guests can be surprisingly hard I've noticed.

 

Game is also bit uneven. Some of the npc's walking around as elite mobs are few times been far harder than the bosses.

[ExarchCathedra]

I remember fondly having to map out the dungeons in Bard's Tale with pencil and graph paper, it doesn't mean I'd care to to repeat the experience; "no man can step in the same river twice", etc. Still, even I agree that it would be nice to move away from 'death as a travel power'; I liked CoH's xp debt system, die enough times and it would slow you down enough to feel it, but you could never go backwards.

 

The potential audience grows much larger if you design the game to appeal to people who don't have the time, and to some extent inclination, for quite so unforgiving an experience as EQ; it doesn't seem likely a marquee game would go very far that direction. The enhanced social aspect of requiring a group, and needing to spend long periods of time together, a lot of it downtime of one form or another in which communication took place, is simply not a viable trade-off for a lot of people.

 

I think for something that feels truly new to come along someone is going to have to find a way for there to be enough at stake that it feels like it 'matters', without people feeling like they're being punished by their entertainment.

[cromartyfive]

I see where your coming from but the majority of people just want an easier game that doesn't take as long to play. They need to aim for getting monthly fees from the majority of people.

 

I do think this game was too easy though. It's a difficult balance but the harder you work on stuff, the more rewarding it is when you accomplish it. With so much rewards in this game coming so easy, it feels like less of an accomplishment and it'll be easier to walk away from the game after a few months.

 

I think there may be a market for a smaller company to do the mmo you wish this one was but they'd be taking a big risk. A smaller company won't top the big ones in subscribers but I think they could carve out a niche there.

 

There's no way a big company like Bioware or Blizzard would though cause they're gonna aim to make the most money they could.

[Arkimor]

BEHOLD MY ARMY! AND KNEEL BEFORE MY GREATNESS!!!

 

BEHOLD!

 

 

YOUR PUNY WORLD IS NOW MINE!!!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Arkimor

[DarthKhaos]

They really needed to make certain stages of the story requiring some serious teamwork. The stories should have been woven into each other at various points. They should have given folks the option to take these routes woven into each other (which would be group things and way more difficult and requiring more steps and such). If they took the option, they could get something that you don't get for doing it solo.

The only problem with that is you will get to a point where you'll just end up begging high level players to help you with your class quest because no one is around your level. At launch when everyone is leveling there wouldn't be a problem, however later on...

 

Then there's your original post about nothing to do. TBH there's about the same amount to do in say WoW. All the "end game" content WoW has no one runs cause it's outdated. Even the stuff at max level. When the new shinny comes out the faded ones get forgotten about.

 

What I don't get. Especially when it comes to PvP. Why is not not fun to PvP just for the sake of PvPing? Why must there be a carrot at the end of the stick? So you're geared out in PvP. That doesn't mean you have to stop. Me personally I got a PvP character and that is all it does outside of Class quests. Having a blast. Some matches are easy, some I get rolled and some the re is so much back and forth it's crazy fun esp in Huttball.

 

The game may feel easy because it is for anyone who plays a game (even casually) with any kind of seriousness for the period of time they play. That doesn't mean it's not fun. Well In my OPINION.

 

 

BTW: Let's get more people using the LFG tool until another one in developed. Sure its crude but the more people using it the less time you spend advertising in general. Check my signature.

 

 

 

PS: This is NOT what a casual player is.

The reason this is in the past, is because more and more casuals are being brought into the genre. And then I don't just mean the people that can only play 4-5 hours a week, I mean the people that want the best gear in that playtime in 1 sitting and they don't "have time" to get a group and do the content. Anti-social lootwhores who think they deserve the best because they pay the same everyone else does, but only puts in 1/10th of the time.

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Faythz]

OP, I feel your pain. I'm a old class MMO player. I do miss old type MMO's which were grindy and hard. Especially Korean ones. There were no quests at all, and you had to kill mobs from level 1-99. And most of the classes couldn't kill mobs solo after level 40, as healing potions were so expensive that you simply couldn't afford them! (Also they were really weak!).

MMO's are these days mainstream. Most players these days cannot "Commit" 2 hours a day, which is really sad.