Sorcerer Nerf....

[biowareftw]

What that ss really shows is 3 other Sorcs doing 187K, 124K, & 76K and next to no healing and what they did do was probally self healing in between combat. THAT is the norm in WZ for 90% of Sorcs, not you posting a screen of your all time personal best fluk you pulled out once under conditions we don't know.

 

All this proves is that the class takes ZERO skill and there is no difference between a decent sage/sorc or Merc/Commando and an exceptional one.

 

We already knew that though...

 

"Metrics" would show the same. 1.1.1 fixes a bug where the top spots weren't all sorc sages commandos and mercs. I beat them on dmg with my sentinel so I am expecting a nerf sometime soon even though much like my scoundrel/op I am topping the other sentinels/marauders by 100-200 k...

 

I can teach anyone with a g500 mouse or up to be "exceptional" on a sage/sorc, BH/Commando in a hour. You can't teach people how to play melee though. They either can do things instantly with no forgiving gameplay or they are dead.

 

Want to know the easiest class to kill on my sentinel? Marauders and operatives. I can kill a badly played marauder faster then I could on my scoundrel. Operatives die just as fast.

 

It takes a LONG time to kill even a mediocre sorcerer/sage or commando/merc on a melee. Removing their hard counter scoundrels/ops? This class will be unstoppable when stacked.

 

Dispel is on a cooldown in this game. You have to get through multiple knockbacks and stuns and AUTO STUNS to even stay on a target.

 

At least with commandos/mercs you can shut down their dps. You can't do that to a sage/sorc. The dots are still ticking and their main nukes are all instant OR automatically kite you, which is just stupid when they already have a slow spell. knockbacks that root you in place, aoe CC when their shield breaks and a RANGED stun.

 

Also to the people claiming you give up dmg? What a crock. You get all the best parts of balance (instant nukes on cast time spells), no cooldown on the spell you press 85 percent of the time, and in the other tree you get all the CC/better shield/escapes AND the spell you press 85 percent of the time channels twice as fast.

 

Either the cooldown on lightning needs to be a 31 point talent in the madness tree or the instant cast on cast time spells does.

 

You would still be an absolute faceroll class and have no problems topping charts. You just wouldn't also be the best CC class in the game...

 

You can't have it all, then have your hard counter nerfed to the ground (noone will even play it) and escape nerfs. If you do? People will just leave this game. When the best pvp specs are also the easiest to play and offer the most? The game sucks.

[VonSoot]

As an almost Battlemaster Sage hybrid DPS spec; I put out those numbers. But there are hard counters, primarily a few well played Battlemaster Powertechs, Operatives, Assassins and in some cases Snipers.

 

Straight burst damage or big tank > Sorc/Sage.

[Lazorous]

Emotion? How is there emotion in text? One of my pet peeves is when people claim they see emotion on a message board. No, you didn't. You saw flat text and projected emotion onto it.

 

Dude says he gets 500K typically. If you had watched the stream, he got 300K, died 3 times, got 9 medals, and spent most of his time killing other sorcerors. Like I said... sorcerors killing sorcerors does not make the class OP.

 

Sarcastic and bias remarks, along with oddly placed capital text , are emotional indicators within writing. The text doesn't have emotion, but you know people aren't talking about that. It's emotion within the writer. If you refuse to recognize that, that's your problem.

 

There are clearly subjective, and open-minded debates that value the point of logic and theory. It's easy to tell which ones are bias. It is also questionable whether the OP has ample evidence to base his conclusions on. I'm neither for nor against him as I'm waiting to hear more details.

 

 

And like I said, did you only watch One stream and make the conclusion? or did you watch multiple streams and make the conclusion? Having only one random sample is far from making a reasonable theory, or conclusion.

[Darth_Vampirius]

The text doesn't have emotion, .

 

Then you agree with me. "Sarcastic" and "bias" are subjective terms, not that it matters, since you agree with my main point anyway.

[Astarica]

Unfocused damage is pretty much pointless in PvP unless you assume the other side has no AE healers, or you assume your DPS is so good at bursting down enemy healers that it becomes irrelevent. Now since Sorcs don't have great burst it's not like you have a choice here. Doing unfocused damage is still better than doing no damage. The biggest worry from dots is that a long one may prevent you from capping or use OOC regen for a long time, not that it actually does damage to you.

 

If you're actually jealous someone can dot 5 guys for a lot of DPS on the scoreboard, just roll a Merc instead and spam Tracer Missiles and you'll get similar numbers, and unlike dots, Tracer Missiles kill people instead of just annoy them.

[SwigMcJigger]

I'm quite surprised Sorc didn't get the nerfbat from day 1 of release. They are incredibly overpowered.

 

Anyone who says otherwise can just point me to all the say... pre-made sniper teams they face lol.

[Darth_Vampirius]

There are clearly subjective, and open-minded debates that value the point of logic and theory. It's easy to tell which ones are bias. It is also questionable whether the OP has ample evidence to base his conclusions on. I'm neither for nor against him as I'm waiting to hear more details.

 

 

And like I said, did you only watch One stream and make the conclusion? or did you watch multiple streams and make the conclusion? Having only one random sample is far from making a reasonable theory, or conclusion.

 

I live in America, where the burden of proof lies with the accuser. You accuse SS of being OP and BW of creating an imbalance? Fine, but the burden of proof lies with you. A stream was provided. I watched it. I saw nothing in the stream that BH/Trooper/SW/JK couldn't do better. It didn't prove anything.

[Hydrott]

Operatives/Scoundrels got nerfed becouse their damage was scaring people and it was an underplayed class (eventhough that burst/stun on their opener was the only thing they really had)

 

Inquisitors/Consulars on the other hand are everywhere and if i had to guess id say about 80% of the population plays these 2 classes so i doubt they will ever get nerfed.

[SwigMcJigger]

Operatives/Scoundrels got nerfed becouse their damage was scaring people and it was an underplayed class (eventhough that burst/stun on their opener was the only thing they really had)

 

Inquisitors/Consulars on the other hand are everywhere and if i had to guess id say about 80% of the population plays these 2 classes so i doubt they will ever get nerfed.

 

 

The reason they are everywhere is because they were OP even in the betas. When your class can mass cc, heal, knockback, bubble, sprint and dps like a champ from right out the gate pretty much, why would you need to roll any other class?

[fungihoujo]

The problem is, other than healing tree- the final talents aren't good enough to make a sorc get them in pvp- which is why pretty much every single pvp build doesn't have full use of either lightning or madness.

 

Buff the final talents and you'll see people not go that mix... and thus, not have the versatility.

[EternalFinality]

You'd be surprised how many do not realize this and it's one of the prime reasons my dirty fighting scoundrel is so freekin scary. Burst gets more kills than pressure damage, but pressure damage opens up the door for burst and taxes any healers to the bone. Also, even Sorc can put out a reasonable amount of burst it's just not as high as some others.

 

People think you have to do ridiculous amounts of burst damage for it to be useful. They are dead wrong and thinking far more solo and short term than they should be. Even if all you do is force a healer to suddenly use resources to save someone you might have turned the tide.

 

This is absolutely true, especially in a PvP environment built around defending points and respawn waves.

[fungihoujo]

I love all the little imbasorcs in this thread shouting "NO, IT IS NOT TRUE!" at the top of their lungs.

Your cries are delicious. Please, continue.

 

And we love all your whines, please, continue, we know you will keep whining until you get every class you can nerfed- that's how pvp goes after all.

[Sgt_shades]

I would agree being a Hybrid Sorcerer (very similar build) they are pretty nasty out there. Thing is...the ones that are OP are few and far between. we will start seeing these threads more and more as people start learning the tricks of the class. It would be difficult to figure out how to change the class TBH. when the bubble isnt up, they melt. raising cooldowns might be the best way without destroying the other aspects of the class. Hard to say

 

If they find the class overpowered the best thing to do would be arrange the talent trees a bit for less healing in dps specs, I can tell you the healing spec is no where close to Op at geared valor 60+ level.

[Lazorous]

Then you agree with me. "Sarcastic" and "bias" are subjective terms, not that it matters, since you agree with my main point anyway.

 

Yes they are subjective, but they can be identified. Your writing has indicated what I have mentioned.

[Invictusthetaru]

Lol, the cries of the sorcs can be heard ringing through the mountains. If they don't need to be nerfed then everyone else needs to be buffed. At least they just don't stand there and hit tracer missile though.

[Ethurian]

the ezmode lightning spam with no cooldown does internal damage, thus no mitigation.

 

Wrong.

It does energy damage. Mitigated by armor.

 

At least if you're going to complain, complain accurately.

[Lazorous]

I live in America, where the burden of proof lies with the accuser. You accuse SS of being OP and BW of creating an imbalance? Fine, but the burden of proof lies with you. A stream was provided. I watched it. I saw nothing in the stream that BH/Trooper/SW/JK couldn't do better. It didn't prove anything.

 

That's fair.

 

I never consider a class as O.P. simply from scoreboards anyway.

[Teslamatic]

Yes but you have not really explained why not.

 

As someone mentioned many pages ago, your damage is not burst damage, it is consistent low level damage to many players.

 

If it was burst based damage, then yes you could argue that it was too high but because it is consistent low level damage to a lot of people, just why is it too high? You aren't really killing anyone on your own with that sort of damage, which is why you need the CC to survive, because your damage is in addition to your teams damage.

 

Sure I can in a 1vs1 situation actually beat someone, but it requires the burning of cooldowns.

 

I defy you to show you killing people WITHOUT using the Cooldowns, no knockbacks, no stuns, no snares, only use your DPS.

 

Let us see how well you survive with JUST your DPS.

 

You won't last two secs.

 

People talk about the "utility" of Sorcerers and Sages as if these things were instantly available at every opportunity, as if I don't spend half my time in a warzone with my Stun unavailable, my snare unavailable, my knockback on cooldown and my bubble debuff on and dying quite quickly when anyone bothers to look my way and attack me.

 

This. You stun/snare/outrun it, or you die. You never outdamage it.

 

Yay, five guys are beating on a tank! Hit 2 buttons=50k dmg!

 

You know what, take it! Take the AoE, I never asked for it. Make healing specs viable, make our top tree talents matter. I don´t give a f***´s as* about AoE. Will these losers stop crying then?

[Lazorous]

Wrong.

It does energy damage. Mitigated by armor.

 

At least if you're going to complain, complain accurately.

 

That's correct.

 

Inquisitor's "Energy" damage and Consular's "Kinetic" damage are exactly the same and are affected by armor.

[fungihoujo]

Lol, the cries of the sorcs can be heard ringing through the mountains. If they don't need to be nerfed then everyone else needs to be buffed. At least they just don't stand there and hit tracer missile though.

 

You mad cuz a sorc stole your cookie? It's ok, cry more to mommy, maybe she'll nerf them for you if you cry enough rivers.

[Daeth]

I agree, sorcerors are grossly underpowered. They should double the bubble and make chain lightning do twice as much damage.

[Rhazesx]

Sages are not Op Sorcerers are. There are rarely any sages in warzones so they are fine. However, Sorcerers are like roaches, I kill 3-4 of them and then another shows up and dots me and runs away while my cooldowns are down.

 

How to fix Sorcerers

 

Remove their bubble, remove sprint and force speed, make dots wipe on death of sorcerer, make their CCs mez them also, double the time on their heals and remove the snare from Winlightning.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Rhazesx

[Sgt_shades]

The reason they are everywhere is because they were OP even in the betas. When your class can mass cc, heal, knockback, bubble, sprint and dps like a champ from right out the gate pretty much, why would you need to roll any other class?

 

What are you talking about mass CC. Other classes have similar, maybe not all, but some. Run speed is useless except hut ball. It doesn't get far enough away that the enemy cant catch up and use a gap closer or even interupt with a stun or snare. only last 1.5 seconds. Really have you seen the distance a sage/sorc can get with it? Snare is useful but only against a few classes. the ae knockback is good for cap interupts or hutball ramps, but constanly gets CC'd and interupted and GCD is still used. If talented has a 2sec root at the end(maybe useful, not sure) Its not even close to instant like ability reads. Force lift, puts enemy back at full health useful to get a break free used but long cast so only out of combat really. Bubble thats only thing that keeps us alive more than 3 hits. And stun is very useful but 1min cooldown and also have to watch resolve bar.

[fungihoujo]

Wrong.

It does energy damage. Mitigated by armor.

 

At least if you're going to complain, complain accurately.

 

But, everyone knows the Sorcs shoot lasers from their eyes, stealth around and can aoe heal entire groups to full while spewing 15k bubbles and doing triple chain lightning crits for 10k each.

 

With their fifty stuns and snares, heavy armour and infinite knockbacks.

 

Sorcs are even more OP than sarlacc enforcers.

[Bullsith]

Sages are not Op Sorcerers are. There are rarely any sages in warzones so they are fine. However, Sorcerers are like roaches, I kill 3-4 of them and then another shows up and dots me and runs away while my cooldowns are done.

 

How to fix Sorcerers

 

Remove their bubble, remove sprint and force speed, make dots wipe on death of sorcerer, make their CCs mez them also, double the time on their heals and remove the snare from Winlightning.

 

Sure they are. And republic needs a x5 damage buff in PVP.

 

Cut the ****. They are both OP and need a nerf.