STOP SP grinding

[NRieh]

It's hardly a secret to anyone, that today social points are gained much via Esseles sp runs, then via common grouping questing (which, I suppose, was the original idea of those points - to encourage players teamwork, to make them work together since the very beginning, and not just in some endgame).

 

Game is JUST 1 month old and I already often see in Fleet something like "Esseles sp run, need to know how to skip movies". Imo, it just screws the whole idea of SP. I agree that system may and even must be somewhat improved, more usefull items etc....yet, I'm absolutely sure, that what we have now just kills the basic idea of it.

 

Why not limit SP gain with just 1 run? Why not to put a level restriction(the MOST OBVIOUS solution)? Do BW so afraid of an angry ex-wow grinders army?

[Heggs]

Let them do what they want if they pay their sub every month. I don't give a flying farg how you earned your sp/creds/shinygear/pvpgear etc etc, If they are not cheating or exploiting then who cares.

[Afflicted_One]

Because grinding flashpoints is currently the only viable way to gain social points. Most later flashpoints only give 10-20 social points if you are lucky, Black Talon/Esseles gives about 100+ social point per run. (providing you are with 4 people)

 

Other flashpoints only have a couple lines of dialog, unless Bioware DRASTICALLY increases the amount of social points you get from these flashpoints, people will keep doing this.

 

Unless you went through the entire game with someone else the chances are your social level is extremely low, having grouped with players frequently my social level was about 200 points from reaching social II by the time I was level 50. See the problem? Yea....

 

Also only offering social points ONCE for any given quest would eventually make it IMPOSSIBLE to gain any social points. Not a very good idea.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Afflicted_One

[JDTC]

i never asked in channel for someone to do a social run, but i have ground thru black talon like 6 times in a row with a guildie once.

 

anyone wanna quote black talon together? the entire thing. i can do it.

[VoXPCS]

It's hardly a secret to anyone, that today social points are gained much via Esseles sp runs, then via common grouping questing (which, I suppose, was the original idea of those points - to encourage players teamwork, to make them work together since the very beginning, and not just in some endgame).

 

Game is JUST 1 month old and I already often see in Fleet something like "Esseles sp run, need to know how to skip movies". Imo, it just screws the whole idea of SP. I agree that system may and even must be somewhat improved, more usefull items etc....yet, I'm absolutely sure, that what we have now just kills the basic idea of it.

 

Why not limit SP gain with just 1 run? Why not to put a level restriction(the MOST OBVIOUS solution)? Do BW so afraid of an angry ex-wow grinders army?

 

Why do new people try to ruin a good thing? It's work, period. When a way is found that is quicker and easier, that will be correct way to do it.

 

What do you do for a living? Do you have a career? Let me find a way to make your daily work take longer than it should due to poor implementation. brb.

[Afflicted_One]

Unfortunately the social point system doesn't reward players for actually doing group activities, playing with other players, and being social. But instead selectively rewards players for grinding.

 

You try finding players to go through every line of dialog with you while you are leveling. Good luck in advance.

[gregordunbar]

Hey we were telling them the Social Point system was bad for more than half a year of beta testing. Social and PUG does not go together, they SHOULD NOT go together.

 

The SP system should be greatly expanded into actually being SOCIAL, outside of grouping. Emotes...we were asking for other things to do, like actual dancing and playing music. activities to do in town to give this game some life...but no...even now, people are instead are asking to have social points limited even more by placing a cap on them instead of asking for the system to be expanded so there are options...gawd.

[Cytheria]

At the moment the SP system is flawed, as others have pointed out, as the main source of SP is one individual mission, and for everything else, unless you have a fixed levelling partner who will only play at the same time you do, it's nigh on impossible to consitently group up and run through other missions with the same group of friends.

 

As a result, cracking down on that mission really isnt an answer... its just a symptom endemic of the problem, not the root cause.

 

When i first heard about the social system, I got the impression that you'd be earning points for chatting and taking part in the ingame community, not just for being in a group when you happen to run into a conversation option.

 

The system needs a revamp, that much is sure, and I for one would like to see it encouraging people to be a community by chatting, having a laugh and enjoying themselves, rather than thinking "i have to get a group for this mission because theres a few conversation options to work through for points."

 

It'd be great to think that the random jedi that ran past me and threw a quick heal in my direction got a few SP out of the deal as a way of saying "way to look out for other players" rather than just seeing them run past ignoring me when that one quick heal could have been a life saver, and possibly missing out on a conversation that lead to both of us becoming friends etc etc...

 

I wouldn't punish people for grinding their way through the system as it is for social points, and I certainly wouldnt prevent others from doing the same, if they want to... but the system does need to be fixed at some point without making normal players feel like they've lost out, and without causing those of us who have done some grinding for sp to lose anything we've worked for either.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Cytheria

[Lord_Lunacy]

Here I was wondering how I was going to get higher social levels when missions where giving out pathetic amounts of points. Never bothered to notice till I wanted some gear from a social vendor. I guess I will have to grind until they revamp the system. Oh, and to the OP, no, don't change it if it is the only viable way to gain your levels.

[NRieh]

Because grinding flashpoints is currently the only viable way to gain social points. Most later flashpoints only give 10-20 social points if you are lucky, Black Talon/Esseles gives about 100+ social point per run. (providing you are with 4 people)

 

Come. On. 1 single quest gained\complete by group of two gives about 10 ( if not more). We all go on questing anyway, a lot of people are more\less on same stage. We don't need to do ANY EXTRA to gain those. 1-2 mission areas would cover that grinding MUCH, and (once again) - people are not asked for something MORE than what they do anyway.

 

I understand that grinding esseles\talon does not break the rules. Many things do not, which does not make them any better. And it does not mean that those bring any good into current mechanics and community. The fact that system itself, as implemended, lack of some points does not mean it should be screwed even more. We had tons of grinding-based things all over the mmos, how come that social aspect also becomes part of it?

 

I totally agree about lack of non-combat ways of SP gaining, it was already mentioned in mini-game thread and not only there, and, hopefully will also be noticed by BW stuff( in case those read anything). Still, I hope they'll close those grinding-farms. Or at least bring level-restriction in. Doing those on a proper level,actually, takes some nice teamwork.

[Max_Gambit]

Hey we were telling them the Social Point system was bad for more than half a year of beta testing. Social and PUG does not go together, they SHOULD NOT go together.

 

The SP system should be greatly expanded into actually being SOCIAL, outside of grouping. Emotes...we were asking for other things to do, like actual dancing and playing music. activities to do in town to give this game some life...but no...even now, people are instead are asking to have social points limited even more by placing a cap on them instead of asking for the system to be expanded so there are options...gawd.

 

well i do get your point but i can just now see tons of people afk dance emoteing, so getting social points by emotes will be a terrible idea, as you dont need anyone else to do a emote mostly

[NermalDetonator]

I think social points should be awarded for completing objectives, regardless of dialogue choices. All the current model does is force you to run certain content in favor of others, based on number of speech options. Its pretty lame.

[Vitiock]

We should get social point for trolling general, it's far more social than spamming 1 and spacebar in black talon with complete strangers in utter silence.

[gregordunbar]

well i do get your point but i can just now see tons of people afk dance emoteing, so getting social points by emotes will be a terrible idea, as you dont need anyone else to do a emote mostly

 

Any system can be abused. its no excuse to either limit it more or not expand it at all.

 

If my choice is to make it easier or make it a massive grind forcing me to group the entire length of the game...ill choose to make it easier with more options...and hell, AFK dancers in a city is better than what we have now because at least there will be a few people actually there and socializing in the now dead towns/cantinas.

 

some, is better than none.

[QuintessaSHeera]

I'm social IV, but I have been running my game entirely with another dedicated gaming partner. I can't imagine how hard it would be if you had to play the game the entire way through alone. There are parts of the game (not just heroics/flashpoints) where it's extremely difficult to even get through class storyline quests without a partner to assist.

 

Kudos to those of you who can do it all alone.

 

Personally, I don't see why it matters how a person gets their social points. Sure, the system wasn't set up to get them by running the same 2 flashpoints over and over again...but it's not like there's only so many social points to go around. Everyone can get some, so how does it matter if a person has Social 5 by just doing flashpoints or got it from questing with a partner?

 

To each their own...

[Sivri]

I really don't think there should be a level cap on the instances. That's kind of like ruining the fun for everyone just because someone does something that might not be intended, but is not game-breaking either. I say this because not everyone does the lower level instances when they are appropriate, but come back at a higher level to experience that instance, perhaps on their own or perhaps in a group. I'm one of those kinds of people, I level in a duo with one of my good friends (which by the way is a great way to get social points, my main is level 36 and I almost already have social III - without grinding) and we're finding ourselves constantly being 2-3 levels above our questing area - if we were to do the instances as well when we get into their level range, we'd end up with grey quests upon entering the next planet in our story.

But that doesn't mean I do not want to experience the instances and the story in them.

And to be honest I think I can't possibly be the only one preferring to go back and see what I missed in the first round.

 

The social point system might be flawed to some degree, but I don't agree that it makes it okay to potentially ruin the experience of doing the flashpoints for others.

Nor do I see a problem with people running the first instances over and over, if you don't want to join a grind group because you'd like to see the story then there should be plenty of opportunity to find a normal group still.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sivri

[Randomness]

Come. On. 1 single quest gained\complete by group of two gives about 10 ( if not more). We all go on questing anyway, a lot of people are more\less on same stage. We don't need to do ANY EXTRA to gain those. 1-2 mission areas would cover that grinding MUCH, and (once again) - people are not asked for something MORE than what they do anyway.

 

I have a character with whom I've been duoing every. single. planet. Currently, I'm halfway through Hoth, and still don't have Social IV. If I hadn't done a sp run of BT, I might not even hit Social IV before leaving Hoth.

 

As I recall, Belsavis requires Social V or so. (Considering Taris and Quesh and Hoth are all social IV) That means that without sp grinding, even duoing THE ENTIRE GAME isn't enough to keep pace with social vendors. That's ridiculous.

 

 

I strongly believe more sources of social points are needed. The vast majority of group content offers no reward at all (Heroics) or minimal rewards (Most low level FPs). I think for starters, that anytime someone gains 1% of their next level (or some other xp marker), the group gets 1 sp. That would at least make Heroics rewarding. Alternatively, add a flat bonus to the end of group content, multiplied by party size. Add social minigames (Pazaak, for instance) with social point gains. Hell, maybe even add some small sp gains to warzones and such, since they ARE group content.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Randomness

[Racheakt]

I think SP points should be awarded for boss kills, not dialoged.

 

I also think PvP is "social" and WZ victories should net a small amount of SP.

[NRieh]

I really don't think there should be a level cap on the instances.

I was talking about caping the SP rewards. I really dont consider it right, that both 10lv and 40lv gets same amount. Because they DO make different efforts to complete it. I'm OK about outleveling group quests - I also play with my RL friend, and we often do 4+ with companions at +2-3lv, but that's different. It has nothing to do with grinding low lv for the SP-rewards. I hope you got my point.

 

 

And you also prove my anti-grinding topic:

I level in a duo with one of my good friends (which by the way is a great way to get social points, my main is level 36 and I almost already have social III - without grinding

 

And a man from our local forum almost at V on his 43. He did ALL the content grouped. Without ANY grind-runs.

Edited January 24, 2012 by NRieh

[VicSkimmr]

Come. On. 1 single quest gained\complete by group of two gives about 10 ( if not more). We all go on questing anyway, a lot of people are more\less on same stage. We don't need to do ANY EXTRA to gain those. 1-2 mission areas would cover that grinding MUCH, and (once again) - people are not asked for something MORE than what they do anyway.

 

I understand that grinding esseles\talon does not break the rules. Many things do not, which does not make them any better. And it does not mean that those bring any good into current mechanics and community. The fact that system itself, as implemended, lack of some points does not mean it should be screwed even more. We had tons of grinding-based things all over the mmos, how come that social aspect also becomes part of it?

 

I totally agree about lack of non-combat ways of SP gaining, it was already mentioned in mini-game thread and not only there, and, hopefully will also be noticed by BW stuff( in case those read anything). Still, I hope they'll close those grinding-farms. Or at least bring level-restriction in. Doing those on a proper level,actually, takes some nice teamwork.

 

Very few people have the option of questing with a friend. For one thing, it's SOLO content. It isn't meant to be grouped up for. The actual GROUP content, the Flash Points, barely give you any social points at all. That's the flaw in the system.

 

I've done multiple runs of every flashpoint on my journey, and I'm still not even social II yet (currently level 38). I do more grouping than the vast majority of players because I'm doing nearly 50% of my leveling experience as group content. They should be awarding vastly more social points for completing flash points than they currently are. At the very least, we should be getting a nice big chunk of them for finishing the FP daily quest.

[NRieh]

They should be awarding vastly more social points for completing flash points than they currently are.

Which would only increase and simplify grinding. Bad idea imo. Giving other sources of SP - good idea.

 

And the very main idea that somehow lacks understanding - grouping is not just for points, it's for building in-server relations. You kill mob and get experience. You communicate and gain SP. You can't just say - oh killing strong mobs and questing is way to long, gimme fast and big exp for a quick run through the -20lv flashpoint. Same with socials. That's the way it should work. I guess.

 

ps: I DO understand that players are somewhat forced to follow this way, for the only alternative (grouping for non-group content) may seem unattractive to some people. Still, it does not make situation any better, imo.

[VicSkimmr]

Which would only increase and simplify grinding. Bad idea imo. Giving other sources of SP - good idea.

 

And the very main idea that somehow lacks understanding - grouping is not just for points, it's for building in-server relations. You kill mob and get experience. You communicate and gain SP. You can't just say - oh killing strong mobs and questing is way to long, gimme fast and big exp for a quick run through the -20lv flashpoint. Same with socials. That's the way it should work. I guess.

 

So you questing with a RL friend is somehow building more of an online relationship than the friends I meet and constantly play with from doing flash points? it isn't grinding at all, it's enjoying the actual group content in the game. Right now we only get rewarded for doing the solo content in a group.

 

That doesn't make sense, and grouping up for solo content is no fun, it completely removes the challenge. So we have to find other ways to get it done. If we were rewarded like we should be, we wouldn't have to resort to farming BT over and over to make up for it.

[NRieh]

So you questing with a RL friend is somehow building more of an online relationship than the friends I meet and constantly play with from doing flash points?

Where did you get this from? I got both online and RL ingame contacts, I never undervalued grouping and FPs themselves.

 

t isn't grinding at all, it's enjoying the actual group content in the game.

Running an outleveled by 10++ lv fp several times in a raw spacebaring everything is nowdays called "enjoying group content",huh?

 

That doesn't make sense, and grouping up for solo content is no fun, it completely removes the challenge.

Oh yes, so much challange in killing grey mobs that die from your single aoe....

 

Once again, in case someone does not read anything xept for the last post in a thread - I DO understand we lack of SP gaining ways (both combat and non-combat) atm, yet I DO NOT consider it a proper reason for keeping that grinding farm up. Level restriction on SP gain is the simple nice thing devs may do about it, imo. You'll have about 3-5 lvls to "enjoy your group content" for rewards, and then - well, you still may still enjoy it, watch different scenarios etc. But no SP, same way as no exp.

Edited January 25, 2012 by NRieh

[Sakima]

It's hardly a secret to anyone, that today social points are gained much via Esseles sp runs, then via common grouping questing (which, I suppose, was the original idea of those points - to encourage players teamwork, to make them work together since the very beginning, and not just in some endgame).

 

Game is JUST 1 month old and I already often see in Fleet something like "Esseles sp run, need to know how to skip movies". Imo, it just screws the whole idea of SP. I agree that system may and even must be somewhat improved, more usefull items etc....yet, I'm absolutely sure, that what we have now just kills the basic idea of it.

 

Why not limit SP gain with just 1 run? Why not to put a level restriction(the MOST OBVIOUS solution)? Do BW so afraid of an angry ex-wow grinders army?

 

You can't limit it to one run. If you did it would make it almost impossible for some people to level Social up past level 50 if they couldn't rerun flashpoints. Imagine if you didn't group much 1-50 and barely had any social and then at 50 you couldn't rerun flashpoints.

[Spartanik]

well i group up with a mate with my alt and we are doing the planets together, am at balmorra now and im already lvl 3 social rank. Not to mention the whole experience its much more fun.