Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[FerrusPA]

I disagree with the red part, its evident by the amount of Bioware posts in this thread. Also Bioware isn't the type of company that handles my criticism well.

 

I mean I've been rather offensive at times... I'm pretty sure they hate me lol (If they've even heard of my name personally) but thats ok as long as this gets fixed over the next months...

 

I want to believe that somewhere, someone knew about the delay issue and either brought it up and the higher-ups said "But... but... touching lightsabres!!" or he knew exactly what would happen and just kept his mouth shut. Either way I'm sure BW was well aware of the fluidity of their combat.

 

Let a man dream, will ya?

[TheHeadCapper]

Case in point: Overload Shot. Since the ability is "instant" you would expect the shot to be fired the instant you hit the hotkey (or click on the icon, whatever floats your boat), but you actually see the character aiming before he fires off the ability - meaning a delay between the player action and the ability taking effect despite there being no cast time.

 

It may look cooler - but it doesn't feel as fluid as it would if it really was instant.

 

And either way you wait for the GCD

 

anyways they fixed a bunch of it with today's patch and more incoming so it looks good imo

Edited January 24, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Mandrax]

Well the problem with this line of thinking is that TOR (or any game that comes out, etc etc) hasn't had the same amount of time put on fixing and polishing that the end game product of WOW has right now.

 

Saying "Well, the standard is set" means that if TOR isn't as polished as WoW in 8 years, then we can all say "Ok. Fail."

 

The difference is of course, WoWs combat was fluid from day one. Their combat has always been the rock the game was built upon. It's responsiveness has never been in question.

 

When you make a game like this where 90% of the time you are in combat, you have to get it spot on.

[Starglide]

Here is the video as promised:

 

 

I want to make a few notes. Please read this before watching.

 

The reason why I am using the que system to display the ability delay is because nothing should be faster in hitting your next ability than the system itself. Spamming or mashing buttons with a 0 second que, despite what people say, does not improve delay. It may act as if it is because you are hitting the ability after the GCD yourself, but in reality it should not and does not make a difference.

 

It is important to understand how the que system works. If the que system works correctly, what it is doing is hitting your next ability for you at the exact moment the GCD ends. Or in cases where the ability channels past the GCD, it is supposed to execute the next ability immediately after said channeled or casted ability ends. How does it know what ability to use next? It is based on the ability you press. The legnth of time from the end of the GCD or extended ability you should press the next ability all depends on what your que setting is at. In this video, my que is set to 1 second.

 

Notice how when I press my buff towards the end of the GCD, there is an OBVIOUS delay between the GCD and when it actually executes. Case and point that ability delay itself still exists. It exists almost just as prominent as before. What they did was allow abiltiies to go through, lessened the delay in heavier populated areas and increased overall execution performance. They did not, however, help ability delay at the standards me and XCore view it (the correct way to view it) whatsoever.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Starglide

[Putok]

This has NOT been fixed. Abilities like "Slash" which are instant still take 0.5 seconds to do any damage to a target due to the animation taking precedent over the actual attack. This is not a glitch but a design flaw. Either make the ability a 0.5 second cast time, and not instant, or redesign abilities like this to strike instantly while not sacrificing animations. Come on Bioware, this isn't hard.

 

Look at target HP bars. This is actually a bug with fly text. The ability is doing damage instantly, but the fly text isn't showing that the damage is done until after the animation finishes.

[Dumpiduke]

Look at target HP bars. This is actually a bug with fly text. The ability is doing damage instantly, but the fly text isn't showing that the damage is done until after the animation finishes.

 

I do believe that this is part of the problem as well. I just got out of my first PvP match after the patch and there most certainly was a noticeable difference; however, we do still have a ways to go.

 

I was VERY impressed with my performance on the imperial fleet. There's hope for the future of this game yet...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Dumpiduke

[Putok]

I do believe that this is part of the problem as well. I just got out of my first PvP match after the patch and there most certainly was a noticeable difference; however, we do still have a ways to go.

 

I was VERY impressed with my performance on the imperial fleet. There's hope for the future of this game yet...

 

Yeah. They still have a ways to go, but the problem is significantly better with this patch.

 

If I'm spamming heals, I actually have a cast bar constantly on the screen. The old bar doesn't fade before the new one appears, which tells me my heals are going off VERY close to back to back.

[Putok]

Another responsiveness problem that REALLY needs to be fixed is not allowing you to over-write the ability queue. Once an ability is queued, the system won't let you queue up a different ability instead, at least not consistently.

[Starglide]

Here is the video as promised:

 

 

I want to make a few notes. Please read this before watching.

 

The reason why I am using the que system to display the ability delay is because nothing should be faster in hitting your next ability than the system itself. Spamming or mashing buttons with a 0 second que, despite what people say, does not improve delay. It may act as if it is because you are hitting the ability after the GCD yourself, but in reality it should not and does not make a difference.

 

It is important to understand how the que system works. If the que system works correctly, what it is doing is hitting your next ability for you at the exact moment the GCD ends. Or in cases where the ability channels past the GCD, it is supposed to execute the next ability immediately after said channeled or casted ability ends. How does it know what ability to use next? It is based on the ability you press. The legnth of time from the end of the GCD or extended ability you should press the next ability all depends on what your que setting is at. In this video, my que is set to 1 second.

 

Notice how when I press my buff towards the end of the GCD, there is an OBVIOUS delay between the GCD and when it actually executes. Case and point that ability delay itself still exists. It exists almost just as prominent as before. What they did was allow abiltiies to go through, lessened the delay in heavier populated areas and increased overall execution performance. They did not, however, help ability delay at the standards me and XCore view it (the correct way to view it) whatsoever.

 

Video is done processing.

[Lugh]

Optimization made the game WORSE after this morning's update!

 

Well done.

[Putok]

Video is done processing.

 

I'll post my video. It appears as though today's optimizations only applied to combat abilities, not out of combat buffs or clickies. I recorded my relics as having a HUGE delay compared to other abilities.

[Xcore]

I will write more later tonight but first thoughts:

 

IMMENSE difference.... truly stunning. This is now "Playable"... yes its not done or perfect yet... most noticeably Animation and Sound Sync is not there yet to keypress or input...

 

 

I will write more after further testing but I am very happy with this first effort...

 

 

*Note this opinion may change during the course of tonight but initially, it is like playing a different game... I actually believe that it can be perfected from here on... whereas what I played last night felt hopelessly unfixable...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Xcore

[lakdj]

the outlook for this game keeps getting darker and darker. Gotta wonder how something as major as combat daily not only made it through a year of beta, but also a month or so past release.

[Putok]

I will write more later tonight but first thoughts:

 

IMMENSE difference.... truly stunning. This is now "Playable"... yes its not done or perfect yet... most noticeably Animation and Sound Sync is not there yet to keypress or input...

 

 

I will write more as after further testing but I am very happy with this first effort...

 

 

*Note this opinion may change during the course of tonight but initially, it is like playing a different game... I actually believe that it can be perfected from here on... whereas what I played last night felt hopelessly unfixable...

 

I agree completely. It's more than 50% better, subjectively.

 

Here's my video, with timings:

 

Dark Ward: Under .03, .2, .2, .16, .07, .13, .1

Defensive CDs: Under .03,

Relic: .34, .3,

Recklessness: .13,

Force Speed: .1,

 

Relics are very slow to activate. Three abilities activating completely instantly is marvelous. The others weren't THAT far off from my latency, which has been close to 100 today for whatever reason.

[Putok]

the outlook for this game keeps getting darker and darker. Gotta wonder how something as major as combat daily not only made it through a year of beta, but also a month or so past release.

 

They're fixing it, and making progress. Today saw our first very big, real improvement. They may have screwed the pooch a bit in beta, but if they make up for it now, I'm willing to let it slide. With one little change today they went from bleh, to head and shoulders better than anything other than WoW. That's very encouraging.

[Xcore]

Again, I must point out that the difference is stunning... its a different game from last night. This is the first time I am enjoying myself in SW:TOR on a similar level to WoW.

 

 

I cannot post this without pointing out that there still are issues, so far most notable in the "Sync" of Sound/Animation and Effect to the Keypress.

 

For example when I press Grenade Throw like ability, it doesn't matter how long the Grenade "travels" to the target before doing the damage... what matters is that an "instant" ability goes off "instantly" -- It has to be thrown faster (leave the player's body) to give the feeling of instant. If my guy reaches for it, takes the pin out... then throws it... Even if the damage and effect-timing is the same, it gives the feeling of sluggishness.

 

So again, problems with Animation/Sound and Effect to the Keypress, "instants" still don't feel "instant" enough.

 

 

And of course, mounting... still displays the same flaw... only better masked.

[Xcore]

Speeder mounting in Alderaan Warzone, noticeably improved... wow...

 

 

 

Many fish in my household will live...

[Starglide]

Again, I must point out that the difference is stunning... its a different game from last night. This is the first time I am enjoying myself in SW:TOR on a similar level to WoW.

 

 

I cannot post this without pointing out that there still are issues, so far most notable in the "Sync" of Sound/Animation and Effect to the Keypress.

 

For example when I press Grenade Throw like ability, it doesn't matter how long the Grenade "travels" to the target before doing the damage... what matters is that an "instant" ability goes off "instantly" -- It has to be thrown faster (leave the player's body) to give the feeling of instant. If my guy reaches for it, takes the pin out... then throws it... Even if the damage and effect-timing is the same, it gives the feeling of sluggishness.

 

So again, problems with Animation/Sound and Effect to the Keypress, "instants" still don't feel "instant" enough.

 

 

And of course, mounting... still displays the same flaw... only better masked.

 

Please check my video XCore. The ability between abilities is still there. I agree that there have been improvements, but there is still a delay between abilities. In other words, I don't think just the instants are off.

 

Edited January 25, 2012 by Starglide

[CanWolfShadow]

Again, I must point out that the difference is stunning... its a different game from last night. This is the first time I am enjoying myself in SW:TOR on a similar level to WoW.

 

 

I cannot post this without pointing out that there still are issues, so far most notable in the "Sync" of Sound/Animation and Effect to the Keypress.

 

For example when I press Grenade Throw like ability, it doesn't matter how long the Grenade "travels" to the target before doing the damage... what matters is that an "instant" ability goes off "instantly" -- It has to be thrown faster (leave the player's body) to give the feeling of instant. If my guy reaches for it, takes the pin out... then throws it... Even if the damage and effect-timing is the same, it gives the feeling of sluggishness.

 

So again, problems with Animation/Sound and Effect to the Keypress, "instants" still don't feel "instant" enough.

 

 

And of course, mounting... still displays the same flaw... only better masked.

 

Any your's was the opinion that I was most interested in hearing after the patch. If the most vocal critic is happier after the patch than before then we truely are seeing progress. So I'm glad that the communities efforts that you spearheaded are starting to pay off.

 

My personal thanks to those that posted videos to illustrate the problem.

 

Hopeful that the animation fixes that are coming soon continue the progress.

[Virtus-Celeritas]

I didn't have it before last nights maintenance.. or didn't notice it. But now I have it.

[Xcore]

I didn't have it before last nights maintenance.. or didn't notice it. But now I have it.

 

Videos please...

[Xcore]

Please check my video XCore. The ability between abilities is still there. I agree that there have been improvements, but there is still a delay between abilities. In other words, I don't think just the instants are off.

 

 

I had a look at it but only quickly and did not notice much wrong with it, this may be because I missed it, I will analyze again in a bit, trying to get a few Warzones in.

[Starglide]

I had a look at it but only quickly and did not notice much wrong with it, this may be because I missed it, I will analyze again in a bit, trying to get a few Warzones in.

 

Not the beginning... towards the middle of the video when I press the buff while the GCD is on, ultimately queing the next ability. Watch how there is a slight delay between the GCD completing and the buff executing.

[yillin]

Here is the video as promised:

 

 

I want to make a few notes. Please read this before watching.

 

The reason why I am using the que system to display the ability delay is because nothing should be faster in hitting your next ability than the system itself. Spamming or mashing buttons with a 0 second que, despite what people say, does not improve delay. It may act as if it is because you are hitting the ability after the GCD yourself, but in reality it should not and does not make a difference.

 

It is important to understand how the que system works. If the que system works correctly, what it is doing is hitting your next ability for you at the exact moment the GCD ends. Or in cases where the ability channels past the GCD, it is supposed to execute the next ability immediately after said channeled or casted ability ends. How does it know what ability to use next? It is based on the ability you press. The legnth of time from the end of the GCD or extended ability you should press the next ability all depends on what your que setting is at. In this video, my que is set to 1 second.

 

Notice how when I press my buff towards the end of the GCD, there is an OBVIOUS delay between the GCD and when it actually executes. Case and point that ability delay itself still exists. It exists almost just as prominent as before. What they did was allow abiltiies to go through, lessened the delay in heavier populated areas and increased overall execution performance. They did not, however, help ability delay at the standards me and XCore view it (the correct way to view it) whatsoever.

 

 

 

This video right here explains what I feel the issue is. Why oh WHY is that delay between a used ability and the next one activating even there? That 0.25-0.5 second delay when the GCD is FINISHED and then the next ability activates. It's stupid and makes no sense. It doesn't even have anything to do with animations at this point anymore as shown in the video. Those two abilities don't have lengthy animations at all.

[Klarick]

Level 49 Marauder. Never did have the ability-delay issue. Must have started at level 50. I'm glad that Bioware fixed this issue for the few of you that were having the problem. Now you guys can enjoy SWTOR the way the rest of us have since launch.

 

However, I have an odd feeling that xcore will not be so easy to give up his 15 minutes. Only time will tell. Funny how he was preaching everyday that the issue was inherent to the HERO engine and could never be fixed without rewritning the entire game. (LOL oops)

 

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