This is why we compare to 7 year old wow.

[Barracudastr]

Exactly.

 

So where is it? The OP isn't saying anything that hasn't been said over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

 

In fact, the OP didn't even list the things they thought could be improved. They're bashing a dev for a months old interview, using it as justification for self-admitted QQing

 

Threads like this are beyond constructive criticism and into the realm of ranting. If you feel the need to post about what you think the game is lacking, how about something new and exciting? There are literally hundreds of things in this game that could be fixed or improved.

 

I'll provide one that I haven't actually seen on the forums before: Give me a button on vendor screens that let me sell all junk items at once. If I can send my companion to sell the items with two clicks (when they actually do it that is), why can't I hand them all straight to the vendor when I'm right there?

 

People obviously dont know how to read im not bashing a dev I am bashing fanboy's that are bashing everyone else for their opinions.

 

Please reread my post.

[daedalusmachine]

People obviously dont know how to read im not bashing a dev I am bashing fanboy's that are bashing everyone else for their opinions.

 

Please reread my post.

 

posting just to bash ppl is also NOT the purpose of the forums, so...what did you hope to do besides start a fight?

 

You are describing trolling.

[Rogueish]

**To succeed in this market the powers at EA and BW should have known that they would have to do it better than Blizz - And that doesn't mean it needs to be bigger than WoW- but it does need to be better than WoW. It can still be different from WoW, but it still needs to play better than WoW.**

 

Ahh, but here's a decision someone up the chain (closely tied to a quarterly P&L I'm guessing) will make:

 

Does it need to be better at release? How many months will we have after this thing starts generating revenue before we must be as good or better than WoW?

 

For all we know, the decision to take this thing live in December of 2011 could have hinged upon flagging video game sales in Q4 (sales WERE down btw), or the Q1 forecast.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the devs and producers are a bit embarrassed about a few bugs here and there, or some features that didn't make it into release. I'm sure they all would have loved 6 more months of beta to add more polish.

[YourFutureEx]

I love how everyone jumps on these posts with "Go back to WoW!", "Leave the game, then!" etc, etc, etc...

 

The fact is if there aren't any posts like this, then how is this game supposed to get ANY better? It is the posts that have constructive criticism in them that will make this game succeed.. Not the BW/EA fanboys who want to hear nothing of the problems, and only want to make everything seem like sunshine/rainbows. Funny thing is.. They are always the first ones to leave the game. They do it quietly, to save their egos.. But they leave first

 

The ones who point out the problems, and hope for brighter futures will be the ones who stay. We are not easily entertained by bright colors and flashing lights.. Sure they are pretty to look at, but we crave more. And it's because of this craving that MMOs grow! The simple "FanBoys" are the ones who kill video games, add nothing to the community, and are usually the ones who leave first to the next flashy light

 

There is something inside the game to report problems and bugs that is more effective than trolling the forums. Report your problems there so they can stack the list of people having the same problems. Sitting here fighting about something on the forums is just stupid. That's the whole point of us getting P'O'ed. I consider myself a fanboy of Star Wars, but far from a BW/EA lover, hell, even Lucasarts isn't on my list of faves (Force Unleashed II POS ring any bells?). The fact is, they don't have anyone looking at the forums actively trying to pick out problems from the tens of people trolling these forums. They have a program that picks up on language and algorithms to find when someone is trolling.

 

Go play the game, make a ticket, and then, if you still want, play the game. Otherwise, go back to whatever high quality MMO you think is best. Why is this so hard?

[Feelinestars]

I don't get that James Olsend quote.. is he saying that they've lived up to the industry standards? (lol) Total joke if he's saying that, by the way. This game doesn't have a single thing from WoW which made WoW successful, and it brought nothing good of it's own. ZERO innovation.

 

Or is he saying the fan-base will have a difficult time adjusting to not having every successful MMO feature that WoW has accustomed us too?

 

Either way, it's the beginnings of a breadcrumb of a shred of a modicum of honesty. And for that clown, that's a step in the right direction!

[infamousNate]

I am a coder, give me 7 years to develop something or 3 and I can tell you there is a huge differance. Eh you can rant and rave the WoW love all you like, but in the end, it's like compairing WoW to EQ, you can't compaire them beyond the facet they are MMO's. EQ has a ton more content then WoW ever will, but then EQ is not easy to play. So it comes down too... If you don't like it, move on... don't need to hear why you are moving, just do it.

 

then i think your a terrible coder. did you get past CS101?

 

majority of the time coding...is not spent on time coding.

 

its spent on design/development. alot of the design stuff is done already, the ideas/ etc etc.

 

 

 

this argument is like saying:

 

Tesla Motors: WE wont be having suspension on our cars. it took Ford X amount of years to add suspension to their cars...well it will take us that long to add suspension.

 

 

 

the point is, most of the innovation is done, it should not take a company the same ammount of time to add it.

[Cirq]

I am an above average WoW player. It meets and exceeds my expectations for an MMO at launch.

 

Did you have more evidence to back that up besides a generalization of a group that you don't fully know the opinion of? Or are we done here?

 

Ok - what unsound generalization am I making? If you were going into the MMO market and you were spearheading a game for release that is in the category as WOW would you risk your investment (your own personal money) on such game if it didn't meet or exceed the average WoW players expectations? (the reason one would typically want to meet those expectations are to minimize your risk = aka money.

 

And now - if it is above and beyond the average WoW players expectations why are they not all coming over in droves ? I'm guessing you, like myself have been playing wow since day 1 or at lease for sometime? So we both know that while it's still a good game, we've pretty much done all there is to do, and mostly seen all there is to see... correct? If so, are there not several million other people who are probably and "generally" in similar shoes and feeling roughly the same way as we do? So if SWTOR is exceeding what you say is the average WoW players expectations... where are all the WoW players? By your logic they should be flooding the character creation screens - we both know how fast news of a wow killer travels in our community.

 

Also - these broad generalizations are perfectly fine to make... (investors still somewhat watch the sale of copper in order to make generalizations of economic growth or decline because it's used in several different industries (housing, commercial products, toys etc) all markets use broad bell curve statistics - if not, and they used individual responses instead...it would complicate the data so much that it would be difficult to decipher. So i'm obviously referencing broad observations which is the best one can do without every sliver of data that exists on the subject.

 

*(btw this now just healthy debate as I personally feel that competition in the industry is good for the players)*

Edited January 24, 2012 by Cirq

[LordChucks]

I don't get that James Olsend quote.. is he saying that they've lived up to the industry standards? (lol) Total joke if he's saying that, by the way. This game doesn't have a single thing from WoW which made WoW successful, and it brought nothing good of it's own. ZERO innovation.

 

I do not think it is fair to say this game has zero innovation, it is more that the innovation here is sort of... lateral. It innovates in ways that do not really improve the "MMO" experience part of the game. Very few would deny that TOR has improved on many RPG aspects of the genre, but when the MMO elements are sub par it cannot help but feel like a tradeoff was made.

 

If they are trying to make TOR competitive with singleplayer RPGs out there (that have no subscription fee), well they are in for a tough battle. To fight against the MMOs (without including many modern MMO standard elements), that is a totally different sort of battle. Either way they seem to have painted themselves into a corner, trying to take on both markets and not quite excelling at either. Personally, I really hope they focus hard on improving the MMO aspects of the game and moving 100% in that direction, as I do not think you will ever win over the singleplayer-only-never-want-to-pay-sub-fees crowd in sufficient numbers.

 

Acknowledging the current biggest problem in the game (the actual combat gameplay) was a wise move. While sad to hear they are only getting around to this just now (when it had been reported for over 6 months in beta) is a little distressing, but it is still a better case than maintaining that everything was fine and ignoring the issue.

 

How quickly it gets fixed and how thourough the solution is will be this game's litmus test for many of us. Goodwill and high hopes got my initial purchase, and the storyline made my boxed month fun enough, but gameplay is what will keep me coming back (or keep me from coming back) depending on how it is handled from here on out.

[Malus_Rex]

The game was rushed for Christmas, simple as that really. No wonder there was so many bugs/glitches let alone the 'missing features'

[Skoobie]

The game was rushed for Christmas, simple as that really. No wonder there was so many bugs/glitches let alone the 'missing features'

 

Possibly, but that wasn't the original release date.

 

It first was suppose to come out last spring.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Skoobie

[Xrayll]

Ok...

If you want to compare WoW in its current state to Swtor in its current state. Please do so on all levels. With this I mean also compare the full development cost and time of WoW over those 7 years with Swtor at this point and do not forget to also compare the potential of both games towards the future.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

Ok...

If you want to compare WoW in its current state to Swtor in its current state. Please do so on all levels. With this I mean also compare the full development cost and time of WoW over those 7 years with Swtor at this point and do not forget to also compare the potential of both games towards the future.

 

Or just remember to include all the numerous and serious bugs, imbalances, and other failures WoW has experienced since launch. You know, an actual fair comparison.

[Xrayll]

Or just remember to include all the numerous and serious bugs, imbalances, and other failures WoW has experienced since launch. You know, an actual fair comparison.

 

I think it is also fair to compare the number of whine/troll/entitled/bs posts on their respective gameforums. Not to forget the number of I quit posts.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Xrayll

[Cirq]

Not arguing with you there about bugs and such

 

 

While in all fairness and philosophically speaking we would in fact take all of WoWs history into account - I don't think that is what one would do if they were trying to competitively co-exist or dominate in MMORPG market.

 

Had this been an small investment (in terms of its market cap) in a niche market then most likely such a company wouldn't necessarily care if it overtook wow or not.. as long as it made a profit and did what it could to maintain its player-base would be its realistic goal.

 

However a 100 or 200 million dollar investment in the videogame market (more specifically the MMORPG market) does suggest and eludes to BW wanting to send a signal (tho not necessarily a guarantee) that they are not looking to just toy around with wow, but is rather intent on being a serious contender. In which case setting the bar to WoWs pinnicle moment in time was probably high on the priority list.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Cirq

[Davidgemini]

 

Originally Posted by Barracudastr

I didn't read your WoW rant and enjoy your infraction or ban whichever they give.

 

And I played Aion before this game so you can eat it.

 

And the rest of your post wasn't worth reading because all you did was sit there insulting people for doing the very thing you just did. Congrats on being a hypocrite I guess.

 

/giggle

 

You really should have read at least the last bit of the post.

 

 

 

 

 

Head-shot!

 

I knew they would delete my post, but it was worth it just to show how predicable and unoriginal all these pro-WoW people are. I think the only way to stop people who take games so seriously to the point of no longer enjoying them is to show them up for how silly they're acting.

 

MMO forums have a mob mentality, and right now the mob is turning nasty. I truly believe the only way to stop that is to make fun of that first guy who picks up a brick to throw at the Bioware Office window and shame him till he puts it down. The mob only listens to its peers, not the guys in suits.

 

Lol, maybe Bioware should employ ppl like me to counter the ones Blizzard employ to start these mobs in the first place. The "Oh, I've never played WoW before, what's it like? Coincidently, here is a nice 100 page thread extolling its virtues and advertising it, while at the same time bashing the very game we are meant to be playing."

 

Oh noes, I've spent too long on an MMO forum and I'm starting to get paranoid. Next I'll start to think MMO companies spend millions of dollars developing games to personally make my life miserable.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I think it is also fair to compare the number of whine/troll/entitled/bs posts on their respective gameforums. Not to forget the number of I quit posts.

 

Lol that is the funny thing.

 

All the people here bashing TOR and talking about how it's so inferior to WoW, I'll bet they are the same people stirring up a QQ storm on the WoW forums every time their class gets nerfed or they fall through the world.

[displaynamee]

these complainers and trolls just want everything now NOW NOW...instant gratification ftw?. they want a 7 year old game instantly compacted on the day of release. its absurd.

 

i pay no attention to these complainers, doomsayers, trolls, and winy rage quitters, becuase 80% of them have absolutally no idea what is involved in creating, marketing, and maintaning a game of this scale.

 

let them all cry and rage on the forums all they want, the're not going to ruin my fun any:P.

 

SWTOR WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME RAGE'ERS SO GET USED TO IT:P

Edited January 24, 2012 by displaynamee

[HavenAE]

Ok, just to paraphrase what you're saying:

 

If a new player decides to play and MMO and looks at the market, they should choose to play WoW now until SW:TOR has had a few years to "catch up" because wow has more content, more features, more polish and less bugs.

 

Am I correct?

 

By the logic of comparing a brand new game to a game that's been out for 7+ years? Yeah, they might as well.

 

 

Basically if we're going to keep nitpicking every MMO to come out in this same manner, then developers actually should not even bother to make them anymore. We might as well just be happy with WoW and forget that new MMOs can actually be made. Because that's essentially what we ( the MMO genre community as a whole) are doing anyway.

 

 

 

 

As a side note: Whats really funny about this thread.. there are so many people just waiting for this game to fall and fail, for whatever reason, like vultures. I see so many people that just seem like they hate this game and see nothing positive about it.

 

And yet they resubbed anyway.

Edited January 24, 2012 by HavenAE

[YourFutureEx]

This game is better than WoW. That is why I am here.

[Masteries]

gosh, you know, this sounds a lot like a kindergarten class where I feel like I have to put all the complainers in time out cause "I want it NOW" instead of enjoying the game for what it has... I mean for one, some of the features they left out really would make this game succeed (I mean in wow, with the LFG feature, what do all of you wow fans do? from what I recall, with LFG, you sit around, waiting like a kid till you get put into a random group for the dungeon/raid you want, and then once your done, you go about sitting around again instead of putting effort into it and asking for people's help... That's just lazy) I mean god, ToR already has a system like that, tho it actually makes you work for it, it's called asking people to group up with you, or... hey, why not look to see if there are people looking for a group, they have that option to... But nope, people tend to want the easy route... I mean isn't this why wow became so easy? and why now it's capable to reach 85 in two days.... I'm sorry, I enjoyed how this game worked, it actually did thing that made you have to pay attention, instead of just click and walk off to go do something, then come back.

 

As for bugs, wow still has a ton of bugs, now let's see.... Questing, wow sucks at it, so don't even bother, the only reason people enjoy wow is cause of endgame, which swtor is quickly working on adding more. PVP, about the same, tho wow has more, ToR has more coming on the way. Raids, about the same. Crafting, ToR has it down much better. Companions, do I really need to point this out to you? Difficulty, well now, ToR wins that one, I mean the fact that it takes people a grand total of two days to solo wow and get to max lvl is sad and pathetic, where in this game, you can solo, but it's not easy. Mounts, that I will give to WoW, they have more, and I like the idea of animal mounts, and how the better the mount, the faster it goes... Classes, iffy on that, ToR's classes do need some work, for instance, got a Guardian to 50, that class need's to be given a bit more work done to make them a bit more useful since they feel somewhat laxed in a few areas, same with a few other classes, at least on the republic side (BH needs to be slightly nerfed, and yes, is currently lvling a BH). Equipment, don't mind equipment dropping, honestly, tho in some cases, not needed (and to someone who said ToR need's appearance slots, no it doesn't, that's what orange gear is for)

 

Now, to finish this up, sorry to any I may of offended, these are my views and thought I should add them in. WoW in many ways has a lot to do, tho Blizzard really has screwed it up lately and made horrible decisions (like Pandas and Pokemon, ya, the players REALLY want to play kung fu panda) but it also has 7 years on this game, so ya, it will have more content (because besides those 7 years, didn't it take wow 4 years to produce?) So ya, in the end, let's just get along and enjoy both for what they are.

[face_hindu]

Or what?

 

Or you will continue to look more and more idiotic with each post until you become a laughingstock.

[RazielHex]

That has no meaning at all though.

 

It could have meant a week after a month after 6 months after, a year after or a year+.

 

Shortly thereafter holds no water here sorry.

 

It has all the meaning in the world.

 

You just don't like it because you want to take the quotation out of context to validate your flawed perception.

[TonyACT]

"or shortly thereafter"

 

"or shortly thereafter"

 

"or shortly thereafter"

 

"or shortly thereafter"

 

How long is shortly?

[iainmckenna]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=239914

[face_hindu]

gosh, you know, this sounds a lot like a kindergarten class where I feel like I have to put all the complainers in time out cause "I want it NOW"

 

Stopped reading there. I want it NOW because I have paid over $100 for it, NOW.

 

BIOWARE IS NOT GRANTING ME THE "PRIVELEGE" OF PLAYING THIS MESS.

 

I AM DOING BIOWARE THE HONOUR OF PAYING FOR IT.

 

Woe is me.

 

Also, why in the name of George Lucas would you actually WANT people to quit the game and play WoW?!?!?! Are you THAT dense?!?!?!?!