Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

[Xilizhra]

Now this is exactly the kind of nonsense I am talking about. I ignore such EU sources. So as far as I am concerned, Vader did not have any secret apprentice and he certainly did not beat Sidious.

Um, wouldn't that mean you also ignored TOR? In addition to all of the demonstrations of power Sidious got up to in Dark Empire and the like?

[Bird_of_Thunder]

Well, going back to the actual topic instead of this Sidious discussion:

 

Wrath wins. It's in the job description to get rid of Dark Council members should they revolt against the Emperor. He is supposedly the best saber duelist in the Empire, and that's why he was chosen as Wrath. If Nox could defeat the Dashade as an acolyte, then the Wrath could likely smoke Khem Val as the Wrath is supposedly at the height of his power, so that's out of the equation. And comparing Nox's power to Sidious's power is ridiculous; everyone knows that Sidious is the most powerful Sith in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

On a secondary note, I'm seeing a Sidious-Vader relationship between the Sith Emperor and the Wrath. Anyone else?

[Path-x]

Um, wouldn't that mean you also ignored TOR? In addition to all of the demonstrations of power Sidious got up to in Dark Empire and the like?

 

Well SWTOR does not directly pollute the OT characters. And SWTOR is overall great stuff (Sith Emperor is one of the exceptions which I can somehow reshape in my head to reduce its ridiculousness). While on the other hand, the entire story of FU is based on being a parasite on two main characters of OT.

 

Now I might have not stressed this yet, but Dark Empire is one of the worst EU things I have come across (along with FU).

Edited January 3, 2014 by Path-x

[Karkais]

Is he stronger then Vetitae (or what's Emperor's name) force-god? Or Nihilus wound-in-the-force? I'm not very familiar with Palpatine's fate in EU, and really want to see some examples.

 

Palpatine is the strongest only when the main canon (ie. the movies) is concerned. So there is not even a comparison to Vitiate/nihilus/etc)

 

Secondly, Palpatine is strongest because George says so. Makes dark side look kinda bad when he essentially loses to one guy with a pink lightsaber.

 

(I call BS)

 

ON TOPIC

Well, going back to the actual topic instead of this Sidious discussion:

 

Wrath wins. It's in the job description to get rid of Dark Council members should they revolt against the Emperor. He is supposedly the best saber duelist in the Empire, and that's why he was chosen as Wrath. If Nox could defeat the Dashade as an acolyte, then the Wrath could likely smoke Khem Val as the Wrath is supposedly at the height of his power, so that's out of the equation. And comparing Nox's power to Sidious's power is ridiculous; everyone knows that Sidious is the most powerful Sith in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

On a secondary note, I'm seeing a Sidious-Vader relationship between the Sith Emperor and the Wrath. Anyone else?

I agree with this. As for emperor-wrath relationship, I wish I could agree with this but Wrath really has no direct connection to the emperor and so can't have a relationship either. I don't really understand why not. Why didn't the emperor speak to Wrath at any point.. If he can talk to random acolytes (in jedi knight story), why not wrath.

 

Makes it feel more like Wrath was duped to do work for some people who are just faking to be on emperors side...

 

However, in combat, wrath wins. I have played all the stories of jedi knight, sith inquisitor and sith warrior to conclusion (among others) and in my opinion sith warrior is the strongest character out of these all.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Karkais

[Selenial]

Palpatine is the strongest only when the main canon (ie. the movies) is concerned. So there is not even a comparison to Vitiate/nihilus/etc)

 

Secondly, Palpatine is strongest because George says so. Makes dark side look kinda bad when he essentially loses to one guy with a pink lightsaber.

 

(I call BS)

 

I found this funnier than I should have.

 

Nihilus was nothing without Force Drain.

Sidious created a Rift in time and space that consumed a fleet. An entire fleet.

If you knew anything about Windu, you'd know its purple, and he uses an almost exclusive form of lightsaber combat called Vapaad, which channels his opponents dark energy into his blade making him nearly unbeatable, but Sidious was STILL about to overcome him...

[Karkais]

If you knew anything about Windu, you'd know its purple, and he uses an almost exclusive form of lightsaber combat called Vapaad, which channels his opponents dark energy into his blade making him nearly unbeatable, but Sidious was STILL about to overcome him...[/color]

 

Yes I know its purple, it was a joke. (incidentally some people called my purple lightsabers 'pink' in game recently)

 

"About to overcome" is a massive exaggeration. Calling for help is usually not an indication of "overcoming". Looking at this with non-tinted glasses should make it clear that Windu was closer to victory than Sidious was. Windu was not even scorched. Look at Sidious afterwards.

 

Windus abilities are irrelevant. What matters is whether or not Sidious could defeat him. If sidious would lose, then obviously he was not the strongest.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Karkais

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yes I know its purple, it was a joke. (incidentally some people called my purple lightsabers 'pink' in game recently)

 

"About to overcome" is a massive exaggeration. Calling for help is usually not an indication of "overcoming". Looking at this with non-tinted glasses should make it clear that Windu was closer to victory than Sidious was. Windu was not even scorched. Look at Sidious afterwards.

 

Windus abilities are irrelevant. What matters is whether or not Sidious could defeat him. If sidious would lose, then obviously he was not the strongest.

 

Except Sidious could have defeated him, but he didn't to goad Anakin into turning to the darkside. His Force Lighting was bending Windu's blade and the latter was clearly struggling and in pain.

 

As for your other comment about Sidious being the strongest only via the movies. That's wrong, because in the EU he is still the most powerful Sith Lord there too, As noted by sourcebooks, authors, Lee and so on.

 

Anyway were gettting off topic here.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Hei_Atzfel]

If we're taking power bases into consideration, Nox would win by a landslide. She'd just have a half dozen Imperial warships bombard where-ever Wrath happened to be at the time.

[Karkais]

If we're taking power bases into consideration, Nox would win by a landslide. She'd just have a half dozen Imperial warships bombard where-ever Wrath happened to be at the time.

 

Good thing powerbases don't matter much. Look at end of "return of the jedi".

[Xilizhra]

Good thing powerbases don't matter much. Look at end of "return of the jedi".

Clarification: powerbases don't matter much when you deliberately invite your main enemy past all of them.

[Manweth]

Nox has a powerbase / army. Coincidentally, so has Consular.

 

Wrath IS a one man army. Coincidentally, so is Knight.

 

It's safe to say Wrath and Hero would wipe the floor with the other two softies.

[Heith]

i like nox ability to be immortal better.

[Rakugo]

Id say Wrath would win, even though Nox is Immortal.

 

Clarification of the word Immortal: A Being who is incapable of dying, killed or what so ever.

 

So basically, no one is trully Immortal in the SW Universe.

 

Let me explain. Emperor is Immortal but yet he fights against opponent who want to kill him cause he doesnt want to die. The one thing he fears is Death. The word Immortal has a twist in the SW Universe.

 

Its more like they wont die from old age, decaying, Like Darth Nox he/she wont die, duo the fact that the ghost would bring her back to live (Which actually implies that Darth Nox did die.)

 

So being stabbed to death could kill a person labeled Immortal in the SW Universe.

Decapitating Nox would do the trick, no ghost could possibly bring you back from that imo.

 

So lets say Wrath vs Nox, if Wrath manage to (kill) Nox it would take a while before life would kick back in.

Giving Wrath all the time of figuring out something how to deal with Nox

 

Just my point of view

 

Edit: I say Wrath would win, because he is better at LS combat, physically and mentally stronger, flexible, agile.

Also on the note someone said that Wrath is also Immortal because

 

I honestly have a feeling it's already been done.

 

 

You remember when Drahg sabotaged the cave and blew it up? There should be no way you survived. The two Sith mentioned if your character is worthy he'd survive. This sounds to me like if you were worthy the ritual would have worked.

 

This gave me a different perspective on the view but doubtful since in the Revan novel, The Emperor was the only one who knew the ritual and it wasn't just some cast a spell it is done you are Immortal ritual.

In the novel the ritual was machinery and dark magic and it took time and preparation. and knowing the Emperor he would keep that knowledge to him self. and since there were no machinery that gave awat some hey look im designed to help you become immortal, i doubt that SW is Immortal upon being the new wrath.

 

thus leaving the only option available. what the hand meant was, that the explosion would kill anyone but if he would survive then he would be worthy on becoming the new wrath

 

also: theres no if you are worthy the ritual would have worked, it will worked worthy or not in the Emperors eyes. if the ritual was performed, you were immortal with no way of undoing it. and also you would be in constant pain, and stripped of your emotions (which makes me wonder how does Lord Scourge feed on emotion as a Sith?)

if you are wondering where my info comes from, read the Revan novel. at least for the Immortal part on the sw.

 

as for the rest. the information was notable in the game

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rakugo

[Jacksper]

The movies showed Sidious being nearly defeated by Mace Windu. It doesn't show him ever being strong enough to actually overwhelm the Jedi Master either. However, The Sith Emperor is not above death either because the JK story shows the Hero of Tython Slaying the Emperor (Or his mortal body). This shows that both could be overcome by Jedi who may or may not have been revered as the best of their order (I don't think Windu was better than Yoda, although I could hear claims that the Hero of Tython was one of the greatest Jedi to ever live, since he did manage to beat an Emperor who had overcome Legends like Revan and Malak before him.)

 

This kinda dictates to me that even though the Sith are strong in the Force, they are inevitably weaker than their Jedi Counterparts (Who never displayed such feats of force power as the Sith did). Perhaps the Dark side is overrated, but onward to the Wrath vs Nox/Imperius/Occules.

 

Short answer, Nox wins with overwhelming force abilities, he managed to block Thanaton's lightsaber with the power of the Force itself. But the Wrath was no pushover as he too had some great abilities, besides being the superior combatant in lightsaber combat, I really don't see how this is a battle that is indefinitely in either's court of winning.

 

The Wrath can block lightning, but can he block Force Push, Pull or prevent himself from being levitated by the force? I don't think so. He may be able to break control but Nox's reserves are most likely great enough to just "Assume Control" (See what I did there?) once more. And again, seeing that the Wrath's lightsaber could be blocked with the Force itself, I don't see him ever defeating Nox in Force combat. PS: The Inquisitor seems to be superior to the other DC members because of the Ghost he captured, he may even be stronger than the Emperor but I won't go as far as to say that.

[RojahDojah]

I think it's a matter that'd be decided by the terms of engagement. In a toe to toe duel the Wrath's martial prowess wins out, but the likelihood of that happening is nil. Far more likely is that Nox, should she choose to, can bring a far larger and more vital powerbase to bear and annihilate the Wrath from afar. After the ash settles she can sift through for any ghostly morsels that remain and chalk it up to the experience of coming up the hard way as opposed to the warrior's relatively cushy ride to the top.

 

The third option (and most likely in my mind) is that Jadus returns upon the news of the Emperor's demise, burns their minds out with terror and leaves them and the rest of the Dark Council gibbering at the foot of his throne as madness and fear spread through the galaxy in his wake.

[Sith-Viscera]

Depends. I've had a similar debate with a buddy of mine. We settled with two possibilities.

 

They are equal.

 

Wrath is more powerful.

 

As for the second conclusion it goes like this.. Nox just gained a seat on the council by defeating a member of the council that the others felt barely deserved the position in the first place. Nox also did it with the help of various spirits rather than his/her own power. In a sense you can still argue it Is Nox's power but.. not the point of this thread.

 

The wrath on the other hand is second only to the emperor himself. He/She was chosen specifically by the Emperor himself in order to serve. Even the council has acknowledged him/her as the wrath and outright states he/she may do whatever he/she wants as long as it doesn't contradict their own goals. Despite this the council seem nervous and even state they won't get in Wrath's way.

 

Listen to this person.

Well said, well Said.....

[ToMyMa]

I think it's a matter that'd be decided by the terms of engagement. In a toe to toe duel the Wrath's martial prowess wins out, but the likelihood of that happening is nil. Far more likely is that Nox, should she choose to, can bring a far larger and more vital powerbase to bear and annihilate the Wrath from afar. After the ash settles she can sift through for any ghostly morsels that remain and chalk it up to the experience of coming up the hard way as opposed to the warrior's relatively cushy ride to the top.

 

The third option (and most likely in my mind) is that Jadus returns upon the news of the Emperor's demise, burns their minds out with terror and leaves them and the rest of the Dark Council gibbering at the foot of his throne as madness and fear spread through the galaxy in his wake.

 

Dread Master Jadus

[Girdeux]

After the ash settles she can sift through for any ghostly morsels that remain and chalk it up to the experience of coming up the hard way as opposed to the warrior's relatively cushy ride to the top.

 

The wraths "cushy" ride to the top? You realize the Wrath has the best feat out of anyone in the game right?

[Ruddertail]

The wraths "cushy" ride to the top? You realize the Wrath has the best feat out of anyone in the game right?

 

I don't remember the warrior starting as a slave and through sheer willpower clawing his way up the ranks, with every single person he meets trying to kill him.

 

That said I'm fairly sure Nox would win, given that he has five force ghosts enslaved within him. I have a hard time imagining the bloody emperor himself being more powerful than five ancient ghosts AND Nox himself. To say the lore paints him as being overpowered is understating it.

 

Of course, when it actually comes to in-game combat I have the hardest time beating maras.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

I don't remember the warrior starting as a slave and through sheer willpower clawing his way up the ranks, with every single person he meets trying to kill him.

 

That said I'm fairly sure Nox would win, given that he has five force ghosts enslaved within him. I have a hard time imagining the bloody emperor himself being more powerful than five ancient ghosts AND Nox himself. To say the lore paints him as being overpowered is understating it.

 

Of course, when it actually comes to in-game combat I have the hardest time beating maras.

 

WARNING: Heavy spoilers from warrior story to ensue

Do you remember the inqusitor

 

 

killing three Jedi Masters as an APPRENTICE (one of which fell to the dark side halfway through the duel), murdering a Dark Council member at the end of Act 2, suriving a massive explosion, being named the Emperor's Wrath, killing a former Dark Council member who was considerably powerful, killing the Emperor's Voice possessed by Sel'makor (a dark side entity), killing a skilled warrior TWICE, and I almost forgot one of the more powerful Dark Council members?

 

 

No? My point exactly. The warrior's way to the top was far from cushy.

 

 

The other Dark Council members admitted that Thanaton was the weakest. He blackmailed his way on to the Dark Council (read Blood of the Empire for confirmation). And it took Nox FIVE GHOSTS to defeat the weakest member of the Dark Council. The Wrath defeated his former master without any ghosts, and with Baras relying on the strength he had stolen from the Entity.

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by Bird_of_Thunder

[Iyzel]

I disagree. The fact that Thanaton blackmailed his way into the Council is irrelevant. Baras had to do the same and he was pretty powerful. The Emperor only made Scourge immortal. And he isn't exactly immprtal in the sense he can't die but rather he doesn't age. I'll agree that the Wrath should technically be stronger since he's supposed to execute dark council members if he needs to. But I still think Nox/Occlus/Imperius is stronger. Oh and btw Nox can be killed even with the ghosts. Thanaton tried killing him through force. If you decapitate him he'll die for example. Anyways the Wrath was hard pressed by Baras. So I'd say Sith Inq id more powerful.

 

Oh and : Darth Imperius - light side

Darth Occlus - neutral

Darth Nox - dark aide

[Rhyltran]

I disagree. The fact that Thanaton blackmailed his way into the Council is irrelevant. Baras had to do the same and he was pretty powerful. The Emperor only made Scourge immortal. And he isn't exactly immprtal in the sense he can't die but rather he doesn't age. I'll agree that the Wrath should technically be stronger since he's supposed to execute dark council members if he needs to. But I still think Nox/Occlus/Imperius is stronger. Oh and btw Nox can be killed even with the ghosts. Thanaton tried killing him through force. If you decapitate him he'll die for example. Anyways the Wrath was hard pressed by Baras. So I'd say Sith Inq id more powerful.

 

Oh and : Darth Imperius - light side

Darth Occlus - neutral

Darth Nox - dark aide

 

You do realize Baras was given power by Sel Melkor who was trying to control the voice of the emperor and he siphoned off power from The Entity which is the spirit of Kreia, right? Baras at that point was no longer a normal Darth. It's also why the council states in the wrath story they'll believe whoever wins because they could already sense Baras got a power "upgrade" from somewhere. If Baras wins then clearly the Emperor did choose him to be his voice. Where did the power come from? If the Wrath wins then clearly he was chosen by the Emperor to act as his personal executioner.

 

No. I am not stating the wrath is more powerful than Nox but people don't give enough credit to Baras. He schemed his way into a lot of power and almost had the council answering to him. If Baras was a nobody why would they consider your claim as well? Just because you said it? Why bow to you? It's because at that moment Baras was significantly powerful and they acknowledged your power for defeating him. Now that doesn't mean none of them could do the same but it does mean they would have severely struggled to do so.

 

Realize that for a moment. Baras had Kreia's spirit under lock down and managed to trick the voice of the emperor. Pretty impressive really.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Rhyltran

[SithKoriandr]

Inquisitor kills Darth Zash! Or has her put into another body anyways

[WorldSmasher]

Before The Emperor's plans became known, Darth Nox would have avoided conflict with The Wrath at ALL COSTS. Going against the Wrath (even if he won) is the same as going against The Emperor, and Nox dose not stand a chance against The Emperor, neither through knowledge of Dark Force rituals, nor politically against the entire Dark Council.

 

After the plans of The Emperor are become known, and Vitiate is disavowed as Emperor of The Sith Empire, is another story. Hmmm.... The Wrath is raw, unbridled brute power, mostly directed through his mastery of lightsaber techniques augmented by The power of the Dark Side, as he channels his wrath and hatred.

 

Darth Nox, on the other hand, could not compete as well, lightsaber to lightsaber against The Wrath, but his extensive knowledge of Dark Force rituals would give him a decided edge. He could play "keep away" from The Wrath, while draining The Wrath of his life force.

 

The Wrath would frustratedly chase Darth Nox around, while Nox drained away Wrath's life and strength away. Nox doesn't care about honorable combat, the way Wrath does, so Nox has no problem with cheating and running, to win.

 

Nox wins, because he doesn't have to fear losing his place on the Dark Council by defying The Wrath, and by extension, the former emperor, Vitiate. In fact, Nox finds that this is an excellent opportunity to exert his will over the Dark Council. They fear him already. With Vitiate out of the way....

[ForiDani]

Before The Emperor's plans became known, Darth Nox would have avoided conflict with The Wrath at ALL COSTS. Going against the Wrath (even if he won) is the same as going against The Emperor, and Nox dose not stand a chance against The Emperor, neither through knowledge of Dark Force rituals, nor politically against the entire Dark Council.

 

After the plans of The Emperor are become known, and Vitiate is disavowed as Emperor of The Sith Empire, is another story. Hmmm.... The Wrath is raw, unbridled brute power, mostly directed through his mastery of lightsaber techniques augmented by The power of the Dark Side, as he channels his wrath and hatred.

 

Darth Nox, on the other hand, could not compete as well, lightsaber to lightsaber against The Wrath, but his extensive knowledge of Dark Force rituals would give him a decided edge. He could play "keep away" from The Wrath, while draining The Wrath of his life force.

 

The Wrath would frustratedly chase Darth Nox around, while Nox drained away Wrath's life and strength away. Nox doesn't care about honorable combat, the way Wrath does, so Nox has no problem with cheating and running, to win.

 

Nox wins, because he doesn't have to fear losing his place on the Dark Council by defying The Wrath, and by extension, the former emperor, Vitiate. In fact, Nox finds that this is an excellent opportunity to exert his will over the Dark Council. They fear him already. With Vitiate out of the way....

 

I think you discredit the Wrath as just a simple enforcer like literally every enemy in the game. The Wrath is not just a brute used for intimidation, but also a strategist (Taris), a master of the Dark Side, a supreme duelist, very persuasive (he gets information out of anybody and when he speaks people tremble) and absolutely unrelenting. If Nox decided to underestimate the Wrath he would just end up the same fate as Nomen Karr who discredited him as a blunt instrument. I also don't think the Wrath craves "honorable" combat, but is just a touch more direct than the scheming Nox. I also don't think he would have much difficulty dealing with Nox's force powers as he fought many people with strong force powers or at least people who were empowered by the force, but Nox doesn't have the training nor the experience to deal with the Wrath's dueling abilities I think.