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Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)


JackNimbyl
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Don't know if this has been asked but...Discuss from a story/canon perspective, so leave in game mechanics out of it. Both have put down Sith Lords and Jedi Masters alike. Who would win in a fight? We have the Emperor's Wrath, most likely a champion of lightsaber combat and superior in physical ability. Not to mention sporting more advanced armor. Or Darth Nox, more knowledgeable and stronger in the force. Well that's my opinion when it comes to canon. Edited by JackNimbyl
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Depends. I've had a similar debate with a buddy of mine. We settled with two possibilities. They are equal. Wrath is more powerful. As for the second conclusion it goes like this.. Nox just gained a seat on the council by defeating a member of the council that the others felt barely deserved the position in the first place. Nox also did it with the help of various spirits rather than his/her own power. In a sense you can still argue it Is Nox's power but.. not the point of this thread. The wrath on the other hand is second only to the emperor himself. He/She was chosen specifically by the Emperor himself in order to serve. Even the council has acknowledged him/her as the wrath and outright states he/she may do whatever he/she wants as long as it doesn't contradict their own goals. Despite this the council seem nervous and even state they won't get in Wrath's way.
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The WHOLE dark council was said to be scared to death of Lord Scourge when he was the Wrath, that not even combined they would even try a power play against him. Just shows what sort of intimidation/power someone of that title can do. The emperors servants wouldnt choose someone weaker then their previous wrath. Id definetly say the Wrath would be stronger then nox Edited by Girdeux
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Darth Nox, because she can't die. Thanaton tried his hardest on Dromund Kaas. A Darth Nox who still has the ghosts after the endgame can't be killed. This is defined by the story itself. And given that the only person who could teach the rituals of Ergast is Ergast himself (who's trapped in Nox) and with the rituals of Tulak Hord being in Khem-Zash, it's doubtful the Wrath would have any idea about how to get rid of said ghosts. Plus, unlike Lord Drahg, I don't see Darth Nox boasting about her power, she'd simply get up again or reappear later as was the case at the beginning of Act 2 of the Inquisitor storyline. So it is questionable who would even know about what's going on with her. The new Wrath's main abilities are their martial skills and aptitude for manipulating the passions of others (like with Jaesa), though it is hard to put this into any practical framework for comparison since Darth Nox also has plenty of opportunities to be manipulative. Player agency is a factor here, I'd say. That being said, I find the whole concept of this fight interesting, though unnecessary. In terms of the story we know the new Emperor's Wrath is in fact not made aware of the Emperor's true plans...will be interesting to see what BioWare does with the story there. If the Wrath knew the Emperor's plan, they should also know that Nox would be one of the few Sith with enough knowledge of the ancient rituals, and the power to help do something about it. Edited by Fraevar
Clarified a few points
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[quote name='Fraevar']Darth Nox, because she can't die. Remember? Thanaton tried his hardest on Dromund Kaas. A Darth Nox who still has the ghosts after the endgame can't be killed. This is defined by the story. And given that the only person who could teach the rituals of Ergast is Ergast himself (who's trapped in Nox) and with the rituals of Tulak Hord being in Khem-Zash, it's doubtful the Wrath would have any idea about how to get rid of said ghosts. That being said, I find the whole concept of this fight interesting, though unnecessary. In terms of the story we know the new Emperor's Wrath is in fact not made aware of the Emperor's true plans...will be interesting to see what BioWare does with the story there. If the Wrath knew the Emperor's plan, they should also know that Nox would be one of the few Sith with enough knowledge of the ancient rituals, and the power to help do something about it.[/QUOTE] This has given me a rather hilarious image... The Wrath repeatedly stabbing and hacking Nox who keeps trying to explain the Emperor's plans and why they're the only one who can stop him. While the Wrath just keeps shouting 'WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!'
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[quote name='DarkestDaemon']This has given me a rather hilarious image... The Wrath repeatedly stabbing and hacking Nox who keeps trying to explain the Emperor's plans and why they're the only one who can stop him. While the Wrath just keeps shouting 'WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!'[/QUOTE] "So what'll it be, we're to be two immortals locked in combat until judgment day?" :eek:
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[quote name='Paulsutherland']My moneys on Darth Imperius ;)[/QUOTE] Ahh, the title best suited to my character. If only most of the high-end gear wasn't LS or DS restricted. Makes it insanely hard to RP the character you want in a systems design hell bent on forcing you towards one polar spectrum or the other :( But I assume we all know who we're talking about for the purpose of the discussion :p Edited by Fraevar
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Darth Nox? They named my inquisitor Darth Occlus as I recall, and it kinda made me go "So, wait, I'm Darth Eyeball? Bahahahahaha". This is the first I've heard of a Darth Nox. I wonder if my inquisitor being an assassin...affected that? I'll have to get my sorc to 50 and see, perhaps.
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[quote name='Uruare']Darth Nox? They named my inquisitor Darth Occlus as I recall, and it kinda made me go "So, wait, I'm Darth Eyeball? Bahahahahaha". This is the first I've heard of a Darth Nox. I wonder if my inquisitor being an assassin...affected that? I'll have to get my sorc to 50 and see, perhaps.[/QUOTE] Darth Occlus = All Lightside. Darth Imperius = More Empire loyal, rather than Darkside-Lightside. Darth Nox = All Darkside. Darth Nox will probably end up being canon. As will all the Darkside version of the Empire stories. As for the topic: [U]Rank wise: Wrath > Nox[/U] Wrath is higher than the Dark Council. [U] Lore combat wise: Wrath > Nox[/U] The Wrath can take on the entire Dark Council single handed, however Darth Nox is somewhat Immortal, but the Wrath has beaten Immortals before, and could easily contentiously beat Nox down and have the Emperor use a force prison to imprison him, plus the fact like Lord Scourge the Emperor will likely make the Wrath Immortal too at some point in the future. [U] Actual combat wise: Nox > Wrath.[/U] SI is over-powered, bubble, heal, Lightning. SW is underpowered, forcechoke-broken, ravage-broken. Edited by AngelousWang
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[quote name='Uruare']Darth Nox? They named my inquisitor Darth Occlus as I recall, and it kinda made me go "So, wait, I'm Darth Eyeball? Bahahahahaha". This is the first I've heard of a Darth Nox. I wonder if my inquisitor being an assassin...affected that? I'll have to get my sorc to 50 and see, perhaps.[/QUOTE] Actually, as Darth Occulus you are 'Darth to trample'. Now if you were Darth Oculus you'd be 'Darth Eye'. Spelling errors in Latin can make a hell of a difference!
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[quote name='AngelousWang'][COLOR="Red"]Darth Occlus = All Lightside. Darth Imperius = More Empire loyal, rather than Darkside-Lightside. Darth Nox = All Darkside.[/COLOR] Darth Nox will probably end up being canon. As will all the Darkside version of the Empire stories. As for the topic: [U]Rank wise: Wrath > Nox[/U] Wrath is higher than the Dark Council. [U] Lore combat wise: Wrath > Nox[/U] The Wrath can take on the entire Dark Council single handed, however Darth Nox is somewhat Immortal, but the Wrath has beaten Immortals before, and could easily contentiously beat Nox down and have the Emperor use a force prison to imprison him, plus the fact like Lord Scourge the Emperor will likely make the Wrath Immortal too at some point in the future. [U] Actual combat wise: Nox > Wrath.[/U] SI is over-powered, bubble, heal, Lightning. SW is underpowered, forcechoke-broken, ravage-broken.[/QUOTE] Thankya for the breakdown. I did not know that, though my inquisitor was resoundingly neutral as far as LS/DS went. No benefit to so being yet, but it amused me. Not sure if I was more pro-Imperial or not along the way offhand though. In fact, my inquisitor only got to dark 1 once and didn't stay there long, so I wonder if the breakdown you gave is entirely accurate. Interesting that there is a difference at all though. New info is new. Thanks again for illustrating that.
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[quote name='DarkestDaemon']Actually, as Darth Occulus you are 'Darth to trample'. [COLOR="Red"]Now if you were Darth Oculus you'd be 'Darth Eye'[/COLOR]. Spelling errors in Latin can make a hell of a difference![/QUOTE] Yeah, but Darth Eyeball was the first funny that came to mind in going 'Wat?' at it. Wasn't a bad thing. SW canon traditionally names Darths in distorted evilbad fashions directly derivate of RL words and connotations. Darth Vader, Dark Father? I might be seeing a faintly hazed correlation where none was implied, but I suspect it was implied. If its intended as such, it's actually kinda clever on the psychological note. Phonetic similes can carry an abstract implication without subscribing to a literal, specific reference or derivation. Darth Vader as an example again only makes sense as a phonetic simile when you know the story and can go "Hmm. Sounds an awful lot like Darth Father. He really was that; did Lucas intend for that to be an 'Aha!' in retrospect, or am I just making up correlations to perceive here?" Darth Nihilus, Darth Ravage, Darth Bane, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious (insidious?), Darth Revan (raven?), Darth Nox/Occlus/Imperious (latin in a galaxy far, far away and long, long ago?). Pretty plain that naming conventions with Sith are blatant appeals to the phonetic correlation in some cases at least, with lots of wiggle room to mistakenly assume that a cigar is more than a cigar on yet others (such as might be the case with Vader). The mere fact that it engages the curiosity sells it though. Good stuff.
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[quote name='Uruare']Yeah, but Darth Eyeball was the first funny that came to mind in going 'Wat?' at it. Wasn't a bad thing. SW canon traditionally names Darths in distorted evilbad fashions directly derivate of RL words and connotations. Darth Vader, Dark Father? I might be seeing a faintly hazed correlation where none was implied, but I suspect it was implied. If its intended as such, it's actually kinda clever on the psychological note. Phonetic similes can carry an abstract implication without subscribing to a literal, specific reference or derivation. Darth Vader as an example again only makes sense as a phonetic simile when you know the story and can go "Hmm. Sounds an awful lot like Darth Father. He really was that; did Lucas intend for that to be an 'Aha!' in retrospect, or am I just making up correlations to perceive here?" Darth Nihilus, Darth Ravage, Darth Bane, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious (insidious?), Darth Revan (raven?), Darth Nox/Occlus/Imperious (latin in a galaxy far, far away and long, long ago?). Pretty plain that naming conventions with Sith are blatant appeals to the phonetic correlation in some cases at least, with lots of wiggle room to mistakenly assume that a cigar is more than a cigar on yet others (such as might be the case with Vader). The mere fact that it engages the curiosity sells it though. Good stuff.[/QUOTE] Don't forget "Darth Tyrannus".
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I wonder why this topic was even started, actually. I mean it's interesting to speculate as a theoretical exercise, but since it's doubtful BioWare will be able to work the scenario with the current structure of the game it does seem pointless. We're all making comments based on our own bias and/or enjoyment of the two stories, after all. On a personal note, a much more interesting encounter would be if the reform-minded light side Sith Warrior became aware of a Darth Nox experiencing doubts about the dark side and the nature of the Empire. A dark sided reform-minded Sith Inquisitor is the most interesting take on the character I can think of. Even if the Inquisitor has lived the dark side her whole life, her slave background is a great motivator for her desiring reform. Interesting thought experiment, pardon the tangent.
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[quote name='Girdeux']The WHOLE dark council was said to be scared to death of Lord Scourge when he was the Wrath, that not even combined they would even try a power play against him. Just shows what sort of intimidation/power someone of that title can do. The emperors servants wouldnt choose someone weaker then their previous wrath. Id definetly say the Wrath would be stronger then nox[/QUOTE] You have ANY idea who Lord Scourge is do you?? He was MADE IMMORTAL BY LORD VITIATE.. BOW DOWN TO SCOURGE YOU MAGGOTS YOU ARE BENEATH HIM!
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[quote name='Zantul']You have ANY idea who Lord Scourge is do you?? He was MADE IMMORTAL BY LORD VITIATE.. BOW DOWN TO SCOURGE YOU MAGGOTS YOU ARE BENEATH HIM![/QUOTE] Something tells me the Emperor will have made our Warrior immortal as well. Doesn't do to have a Wrath that can be killed.
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[quote name='DarkestDaemon']Something tells me the Emperor will have made our Warrior immortal as well. Doesn't do to have a Wrath that can be killed.[/QUOTE] I honestly have a feeling it's already been done. [Spoiler]You remember when Drahg sabotaged the cave and blew it up? There should be no way you survived. The two Sith mentioned if your character is worthy he'd survive. This sounds to me like if you were worthy the ritual would have worked.[/Spoiler]
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[quote name='Rhyltran']I honestly have a feeling it's already been done. [Spoiler]You remember when Drahg sabotaged the cave and blew it up? There should be no way you survived. The two Sith mentioned if your character is worthy he'd survive. This sounds to me like if you were worthy the ritual would have worked.[/Spoiler][/QUOTE] Then there ya go. Our warrior is the immortal executioner of the Emperor. Which means the Dark Council's words about not interfering with their business are now laughable!
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I played both classes, one to 50 (Sorc) and one to 45 (Mara). Truthfully, I would have to say that Darth Nox would win in a fight. I am just basing it one class Archetypes. I think each would win vs different Advanced classes. I know we are talking about Wrath and Nox, but those are just "titles" for the classes. I know a Wrath in the past was immortal, but that doesn't mean this one will be immortal. People saying that they are immortal are just speculating. So here we go AC vs AC. 1. Inquisitor: Palpatine and Maul. 2. Warrior: Darth Vader In the first fight it would be Palpatine vs Vader. I know that in the movie Vader killed Palpatine, but that is just because there happened to be a giant hole next to him... and Vader later did die of the damages that Palpatine inflicted on him. So if there was a fight on just barren land I would give this one to Palpatine, 6 seconds of being electricuted by him resulted in death. Sorc wins vs Jugg. Maul vs Darth Vader. I am using Darth Vader for both because there aren't many sith that use 2 lightsabers to my knowledge. For this fight, I think Vader (Anakin Vader) would win because 1.... he killed all of the Jedi besides 2. And two... he kills children therefore he is better. So I really think it would be down to which Advanced class it is. PS: I hate Anakin, just... he was better than older Vader.
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[quote name='B-Ballplayer']Maul vs Darth Vader. I am using Darth Vader for both because there aren't many sith that use 2 lightsabers to my knowledge. For this fight, I think Vader (Anakin Vader) would win because 1.... he killed all of the Jedi besides 2. And two... he kills children therefore he is better. So I really think it would be down to which Advanced class it is. PS: I hate Anakin, just... he was better than older Vader.[/QUOTE] Vader beat Maul in the EU by the way (a clone of Maul anyway), though he had to resort to a samurai like [URL="http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/d/d9/Vadermauls.JPG"]kamikaze move[/URL], stabbing himself through the stomach (something which killed Qui-Gon Jinn by the way). Vader became much stronger than Anakin (even if he did lose quite a bit of his potential) ... there is no way Anakin would have survived impaling himself.
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