Zamm Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No one is wrong for disagreeing with me. But disagreeing with me tells me you don't understand the situation. There are 2 reasons you wouldn't understand the situation. 1) You're joy-riding as a Sorc 2) You don't understand the situation Let's buff other classes, because buffing more than one class is so much more accurate than lowering the output of one class. This is the logic that just communicates Sorcs don't want to be nerfed because they like destroying. It's really just pathetic. It would be highly entertaining if they Nulled everything on a Sorc for one day. I would finally have a reason to say "Let the butthurt flow through you"..... You see, the other class that is majorly present discussion wise within this thread is Ops.. Guess what's happening to Ops? Guess what's going to get hit next, because there will always be Nerfs... It's ok guys.. I don't hate Sorcs.. I love them, and their sexy ally-pull... I also love to die by them just as equally as every other class. I love to kill them just as equally as every other class. I also love to watch them KB, Bubble, Whirlwind, and Force Run from my corpse.. It's such an instinct I litterally see Sorcs do it when I'm alone and full Resolve........ It's also a chain that is only on a minute or less timer ):- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivar Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) No one is wrong for disagreeing with me. But disagreeing with me tells me you don't understand the situation. Ok so we're not wrong we're just dumber than you.......that's so much better........ There are 2 reasons you wouldn't understand the situation. No you're right I'm not seeing the problem here because on my non-pvp geared Assassin I'm always able to give people a good run for their money (and win my share) when it's a 1v1 fight. Where I get hammered is when I'm alone and 2-6 people come knocking at my door and yes more than often there are sorcerers in there and I see the unmistakable lightning dps or the heals hitting my targets but I'm just not seeing a problem with that. If you have a problem with Sorcerers then I'm guessing that you had a problem with Priests in WoW too, that's really the only thing that I can say.... Let's buff other classes, because buffing more than one class is so much more accurate than lowering the output of one class. This is the logic that just communicates Sorcs don't want to be nerfed because they like destroying. Buffing 'all' of the classes doesn't make sense....ever, and most people who say it are being sarcastic to get the people screaming nerf to shut up..... It's ok guys.. I don't hate Sorcs.. I love them, and their sexy ally-pull... I also love to die by them just as equally as every other class. I love to kill them just as equally as every other class. I also love to watch them KB, Bubble, Whirlwind, and Force Run from my corpse.. It's such an instinct I litterally see Sorcs do it when I'm alone and full Resolve........ It's also a chain that is only on a minute or less timer ):- I think it's more accurate to say that you hate that you love them :p Edited January 24, 2012 by Sivar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamm Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Zamm Wrote This: I don't like long quotes! I think it's more accurate to say that you hate that you love them :p You seem to think Sorc = Assassin. Nerfing one DOES NOT nerf the other. Unless they do it badly. Kind of like how you have a skill that increases the range of your lightning, but other than that you can't match the Sorc's range....... That's because they aren't even REALLY 2 ACs... They're two seperate classes... If they're nerfed as 2 ACs, Assassins will feel some of it.. If they are scaled down correct, Assassins won't.. Either you don't want to be screwed with as an assassin... Or you're just trying so hard not to say "I'm a sorc and I don't wanna be nerfed ):" I don't hate that I love Sorcs.. In the case of Inquis.. I may hate that I love to be pulled and stun locked into the fire jets ): Edited January 24, 2012 by Zamm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivar Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) You seem to think Sorc = Assassin. That is not what I think at all, I know full well that the change to one of the ACs does not impact the other, and you missed the point of what I was trying to say in its entirety. My point is that you need to take a step back and figure out what it is with whatever class you play (I don't know and I don't care) that you're doing wrong and learn to play better. You really need to drop the condescending attitude, you are not nearly as intelligent as you presume to be nor is everybody on the forums are dumb as you think that they are or so self-centered about class strengths. Edited January 24, 2012 by Sivar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnifiend Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I find the problem with sorc's to be their utility. Their damage output isn't any more than other classes, its the combination of damage, utility, self healing, bubbles, etc. I think one nerf they could do immediately without gutting the class is tone down non-healer sorc heals drastically. One other change is to make the interrupt OR stun assassin only, but not both. Those two changes alone would go a long way towards toning down sorc utility. And that is the root of the problem, they are master of all trades at the moment, which shouldn't be the case. Any sorcerer that defends having an interrupt, stun, CC, and knockback, survivability, and maneuverability is just trying to defend godmode PVP status. No class should have all of that. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Reminds me of this: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrk Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Don't nerf sorcs/sages. As an op, I can tell you that an endless nerfcycle is bad for the game at large. Rather than nerfing casters, I would suggest that they should change the interrupt abilities of other classes to 30 meters. Perhaps other classes have different problems with sages that this wouldn't fix. My only problem with them is the lack of ability to close in on them while wading headwind into a constant storm of pebbles. Every balancing action must be met with some counter-action though (unless the "balance" is created by nerfing unpopular classes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geehew Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh, this is rich. You got Op/Scoundrel nerfed and incessantly claimed all of their arguments were rubbish, now when your class is called into question and you have to take the defensive..people are saying your arguments are rubbish. Enjoy it while it lasts, the nerf bat's been swung once and won't stop now. The only saving grace may be that because of the mass amounts of people that play sage/sorc ...Bioware may not want to see such a big chunk of the player base crying, the upcoming nerf is pretty indicative of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamm Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That is not what I think at all, I know full well that the change to one of the ACs does not impact the other, and you missed the point of what I was trying to say in its entirety. My point is that you need to take a step back and figure out what it is with whatever class you play (I don't know and I don't care) that you're doing wrong and learn to play better. You really need to drop the condescending attitude, you are not nearly as intelligent as you presume to be nor is everybody on the forums are dumb as you think that they are or so self-centered about class strengths. You are trying to read an attitude. It's not working. I'm not being condescending. Refer back to my original post, in that "Queue the 'get killed by a sorc?'" Now, back to the bawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 In PVP, the profession I see the most is Inquistors... by a large margin. I refuse to believe its because the Inquistor storyline is amazingly interesting, or that its a freak coincidence. Its because its the best, head and shoulders above others for any role you might want to play. Or maybe, 'cause, you know, Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorekeeper Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 1v1 I don't find Sorc's very threatening as a Guardian Tank. Trinket the correct stun and save up your charges so you can stick on them and its very possible to win. Not 100%, but nothing in pvp should be. I never felt like a particular ability they had gave them an advantage that I couldn't deal with through judicious use of CC, defensive cool downs and gap closers. The real problem with Sorc's is the overpopulation. The sheer number of them is overwhelming, add to the fact that they are a *strong* class (Didn't say OP) means that they can dominate the battlefield. This seems to be unique to the class as well, cause I have yet to run into a situation where a large force of *insert other class* makes such a profound difference. As others have said I think it comes down to their utility. They preform all of their tasks well, be it off healing, dps, or control. When multiple sorcs are present they can split these roles and be all the stronger for it. Now I don't think a nerf is necessarily in order, but something needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joskara Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Sorc actually has the most usefull PvP stuff which you can have at the same time. Knockback 3s sleep when bubble breaks 2s root after knockback 60s sleep with 45s cooldown, stuns for 2s on break 4s stun on a 50s cooldown, can be used twice in a row with CTF 6s silence on 1 skill Speed Tractor beam on friendly CC break Absorb shield Channeled slow Cast slow Good damage Cleanse Heals Who ever made this class was tired of getting killed by melee. Inquisitors is definetly the class with the most tools. These skills are not OP since all classes have variations of them. Its having all of them which makes it the best class really. Edited January 24, 2012 by Joskara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVAjedi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Any sorcerer that defends having an interrupt, stun, CC, and knockback, survivability, and maneuverability is just trying to defend godmode PVP status. No class should have all of that. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere. I just want to say that, as a sorc (Madness/DPS spec), we do NOT have maneuverability, especially while casting (if I move, it's like interrupting my own cast). We don't have insta-cloak escape tactics. And we don't have insta-leaps to targets. We do have everything else you mentioned though, with survivability being questionable (we're not tanks; we don't have 15k health with outrageous amounts of defense/armor, we can go down pretty quickly if we're not chaining the right moves at the right time)... What we lack in defense and health, we make up for in DPS (As it should be! That's role we chose when picking the class.) So it makes perfect sense to see us in the top 5 in PvP because we deal the most damage (even though we really don't, Operatives got us there, BH spamming tracer missiles too - they can crush me easily - but you don't hear me calling a nerf for those classes; in fact, I'm rolling a BH as my alt because it's that bad***). Seriously people just need to learn to play their class and adapt to situations better instead of blaming another class for their ineptitude. Besides, just because you're not at the top of the list, doesn't make you useless. That's what I love about objective-based PvP. Everyone has a part to play. Am I saying that PvP doesn't need to be balanced? No! I'm just saying that some people may need to do a little self-reflecting (regarding their specs and tactics) before grabbing their torches and pitchforks and ganking classes with the nerfbat. I swear - if my PvE experience gets butchered because the devs actually listen to this ****, I might just have cow.... *end rant* Edited January 25, 2012 by JAVAjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MimicUnleashed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We have 2 stuns both have a 1 minute CD and one of them goes away if I attack and of course we have things to keep melee away because if you constantly are hitting us we will die in like 30 seconds. Funny how when Melee cant get to you we die in the same time frame. But that's ok, right? Seriously, though, I don't smash the class for using it's tools, I just think the tools it has is perfectly balanced for PvE to allow a Sorcerer to level and not get offed by every other silver mob it sees. However in PvP some down-tuning to the control aspect is in order. Damage needs no change, just the raw amount of control capability that they have. However in PvP I will say unless I get focused I can knock a Sorcerer to their grave in about 4-5 hits as a Guardian. That is, of course, if they aren't a healer. In which case only ranged DPS can kill them and I'm just blowing focus for kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVAjedi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) However in PvP I will say unless I get focused I can knock a Sorcerer to their grave in about 4-5 hits as a Guardian. That is, of course, if they aren't a healer. In which case only ranged DPS can kill them and I'm just blowing focus for kicks. Let's see... so a Tank can kill DPS, but can't kill a healer, and only a DPS can kill the healer. That, my friend, is called the "holy trinity" effect, and it has been in place in MMOs for... well... ever? Edited January 25, 2012 by JAVAjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpySwe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I just want to say that, as a sorc (Madness/DPS spec), we do NOT have maneuverability, especially while casting (if I move, it's like interrupting my own cast). We don't have insta-cloak escape tactics. And we don't have insta-leaps to targets. We do have everything else you mentioned though, with survivability being questionable (we're not tanks; we don't have 15k health with outrageous amounts of defense/armor, we can go down pretty quickly if we're not chaining the right moves at the right time)... What we lack in defense and health, we make up for in DPS (As it should be! That's role we chose when picking the class.) So it makes perfect sense to see us in the top 5 in PvP because we deal the most damage (even though we really don't, Operatives got us there, BH spamming tracer missiles too - they can crush me easily - but you don't hear me calling a nerf for those classes; in fact, I'm rolling a BH as my alt because it's that bad***). Seriously people just need to learn to play their class and adapt to situations better instead of blaming another class for their ineptitude. Besides, just because you're not at the top of the list, doesn't make you useless. That's what I love about objective-based PvP. Everyone has a part to play. Am I saying that PvP doesn't need to be balanced? No! I'm just saying that some people may need to do a little self-reflecting (regarding their specs and tactics) before grabbing their torches and pitchforks and ganking classes with the nerfbat. I swear - if my PvE experience gets butchered because the devs actually listen to this ****, I might just have cow.... *end rant* My problem with sorcs are really only in huttball tbh, all your stuns, pulls, force speed together becomes to much. However would have no problem if they simply redesigned huttball or removed something in your toolbox for huttball only. Not that juggernaughts arent great there to but they do less damage when specced that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcSDeadDeer Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I dont understand what the problem is with sorcerer's here other than people not knowing how to fight them. My lvl 50 sorcerer friend and I dueled the other day and i killed him without using any medpacs.....it's called INTERRUPTS??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbear Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is why I hate PVP in mmos. Because the game is originally designed for PVE and then PVP'ers come on screaming for nerfs, the devs listen and then everyone else has to suffer and lose abilities because you suck at playing. Whereas if mmos were only based around PVE, we'd all be enjoying our classes and killing bosses. Go play a shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimbSlicer Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 +1 everyone knows they are OP right now and out number most classes 10-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellata Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My main is a sorc and I LOLed reading most of this. How many stuns do you think we can use before opponent's resolve bar fills up? The shield absorbs 2500 dmg, that's 1-2 good hits, and without it we are extremely squishy (light armor). Our main damage abilities can be easily interrupted by everybody and their dog. Our speed increase ability can be easily countered by root and it does have a very visible animation. The only class we can easily win against is sniper, and that's because they are gimped. The rest of the fights are a flip of a coin. Ops tend to kill us within the opener, but they are OP in general, so it's not very relevant here. When running DPS spec we have exactly 2 heals, both are long casts (again, easy to interrupt), both take truckload of force, and neither heals a whole lot. In short, if you can't slug it out with a sorc, you are doing something very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVAjedi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 +1 everyone knows they are OP right now and out number most classes 10-1. If by "everyone," you mean people that don't know how to play their own class, so they need a scapegoat to nerf and feel better about there incompetence at PvP... then sure. I love how you say that they're OP, but you don't even try to give any evidence to support your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomfedj Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good. Finally. And its not that heavily populated. LIES. there are not too many... the cake is a lie! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2135470 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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