@BioWare - Suggestions to Improve Republic Appeal / Faction Balance

[Comieb]

Also they need to do some serious remodelling of Carrick Station, compaired to the Imperial Station Carrick looks like we bought a second hand Hutt station for cheap.

 

Instead of the multitude of shades of brown that the station had (who new there were so many shades of brown?) it should be all clean and futuristic, akin to Akbars ship bridge from Return of the Jedi or hells like the Enterprise from the new Star Trek.

 

Even look at the Dark Side vendor in the Republic Fleet, its got trash strewn all over it.

 

Talk about getting the ****** end of the stick.

 

Oh and can we for once go to a planet were winning on instead of one thats been dicked over by the Imperial again for the 6 bajllionth time???

 

It gets old fast.

[Solemnone]

I'm signing this, because it's true.

 

 

/salute, OP.

[Dyvid]

Bad news guys and gals but I play both empire and republic. It's about the same. Honestly I think Republic has the "I want to roll _____" factor over Imps. You got Troopers, Smugglers, and Jedi.

[Imminentend]

Bad news guys and gals but I play both empire and republic. It's about the same. Honestly I think Republic has the "I want to roll _____" factor over Imps. You got Troopers, Smugglers, and Jedi.

 

Im not sure what exactly your referring to when you say "Its about the same", but you might be on one of the very few balanced servers if your not noticing much of a difference. Republic is outnumbered anywhere from 2-1 up to 7-1 by imperials. My server sits somewhere between 2 and 3, and the ability to get groups is vastly hindered compared to that of the sith.

[Utra]

Honestly if Republic got Wookies I think that would be a big reason a lot of people would decide to go Republic...especially if they allowed you to be a Jedi one. (Even tho I hate the idea of a wookie Jedi...you gotta admit, a lot of people would love it)

 

In Star wars Galaxies i met entire guilds comprised of almost nothing but wookie jedis lol, a friend of mine ones one.

 

 

Im not sure what exactly your referring to when you say "Its about the same", but you might be on one of the very few balanced servers if your not noticing much of a difference. Republic is outnumbered anywhere from 2-1 up to 7-1 by imperials. My server sits somewhere between 2 and 3, and the ability to get groups is vastly hindered compared to that of the sith.

 

As soon as i realized this i started playing my republic toons more, but if players want to go for game authenticity it kinda works since in the games story the republic is outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Utra

[Raigirin]

/signed

 

There are a lot of really good suggestions in this thread and something has to be done bland Jedi experience and faction imblance.

[cyco]

Maybe what I brought up in page 3 could work with # 10, the whole renegade Jedi thing, could be another possible idea since animations for some players is why they went Empire.

[Windry]

After hitting 50 on my Sorc, I decided to make a Republic toon to see what the other side is like.

 

Here were my biggest turn off's:

 

1) Ability Delays - From my experience, this problem simply seems to affect the Republic more than the Empire, and really made me want to go back to my imperial toon.

 

2) The voice acting - hard to put my finger on it, but the imperial seemed to have better voice actors.

 

Most significantly, and easy to change, the commander at the start of Civil War (Battle for Alderan, the warzone).... MY GOD... it's like he's talking through his nose. Hearing that at the start of every Warzone really made me think, "OK, I can't fight for commander Urkel anymore, I need to go back to my imperial toon."

 

3) Satele's in game appearance. Seeing the cinematic before launch made me a big Satele fan... I mean she's smokin', but I was quite amazed of how bad she looked when I met her in-game. It's like crooked eyebrows and angry face regardless of the dialogue/situation.

 

YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM? Side specific colored lightsabers.

"Want a purple lightsaber? Gotta be a Jedi."

"But I want it as a Sith! QQ"

"Don't be silly, Sith have red lightsabers and red lightsabers ONLY. Join the Jedi, they get green, blue, purple, and MAYBE white lightsabers."

 

BAM! Thousands of people go to the Republic. I swear it'll work!

[Tohrazer]

dont forget the 20 or so abilitiy delay issues that favour the empire

[Sabarok]

This is a rather interesting idea, but it sounds like it could really confuse a lot of people. It would be rather odd to be aiding the Republic in a contested warzone one minute, then switching to aid the Empire (whom you just defeated) for your story quests. It would be a case of mistaken identity.

 

Also, PvP isn't the only major issue with the imbalance. Republic players are having a hell of time trying to start groups for anything, flashpoints, heroics, raids, it just aint happening. So the only way to aid both the PvE and PvP aspect would to assume an entirely new identity upon faction change. Sith Warrior --> Jedi Knight.

 

I don't think it would confuse anyone. PvP servers is where it will be most needed & used, and players will quickly become accustomed to it. It doesn't confuse people that you can be defeated in a fight, and then reappear a few seconds later to continue the fight. Bioware has already said they intend on having same-faction PvP because they think it will help (I disagree), and this would be an extension to help solve the faction imbalance.

 

How could it be any more confusing that seeing a player that's a Level 50 red skinned Sith Inquisitor one day in PvP, and the next day you see a Level 50 human Jedi Sage with the same name fighting alongside you? The Empire is all about personal gain. Bounty Hunters would be expected to fight for the highest bidder. The Agent would be seen as being undercover. My Sith Inquisitor has killed more Dark Lords than the Jedi. Infighting is one of the requirements of being a Sith. People also aren't stupid. They know that it's really a gameplay aspect to help balance out PvP. Is it any less believable to have Dark Lords of the Sith playing sports against Jedi Masters for the entertainment of the Hutts?

 

On PvP servers, the faction imbalance causes the PvE problem to escalate because players don't want to be on the smaller faction for harder PvP and they don't want to reroll characters because their main interest is in PvP. Once you have Empire players fighting for the Republic to keep the PvP going and the fights start balancing out, it creates the opening other players need to roll Republic while being able to continue participating in PvP. This will also help the other ideas that would make Republic "more hip" have an effect. Good PR alone won't fix faction imbalance.

 

There is too much faction specific stuff in SWTOR for complete faction change to be a viable solution to the problem. A more efficient solution is PvP specific, namely cross-faction PvP. It doesn't solve PvE, but it does create the foundation for the other ideas to solve the PvE imbalance.

[Alavastre]

I can only say per the Consular story, which is probably the weakest of the Force users in terms of story, but I was surprised that they didn't spend more time learning about the Force. Also, the end is much more repetitive. They also lost all of the cool remarks you could make at the beginning of the game. You could pick out things in the beginning, like you were pretty smart, but as time went on, you felt dumber, and had less interesting options for dialogue.

 

A large complaint for me too is during Act III when the Sith attack the Republic, the whole thing is done via your holoterminal in your ship. Seriously? No cut scenes? Why did the Jedi have to get a new Grand Chancellor? These are the unifying things that should have a cutscene for them, but were left to dialogue. There was only one time that my team mate left my ship, otherwise you get companions, and they only really interact when they're in your party.

 

Obviously, it is hard to make your characters feel so different, and have all that variability, but there were some questionable items missing during the story.

[Mordris]

Great post. I was just thinking about this dilemma. The race additions would be an easily implemented and viable draw to the republic. It's also something that, as you mentioned having models already in-game, they could turn around pretty quickly.

 

Something else that would be a draw for some folks would be cooler ships. The Imps win that one as well...

Edited January 23, 2012 by Mordris

[VicSkimmr]

spoilers spoilers spoilers.

 

Spoiler tags are there for a reason. USE THEM.

 

 

I agree with all of this thread. If they added a few awesome republic only species I would totally re-roll, and gladly.

[Arkholm]

i certainly agree what you have typed. BİOWARE İNDEED SHOULD ADD ALİEN RACES TO REPUBLİC. which would be awesome.

 

 

 

tbh all the other races are deepsh.t atm

[Sabarok]

The only thing to consider when adding new races is that these races will be speaking with the same voice as other classes.

 

With Wookies as an example, you have 2 choices:

 

1) Wookiee speaking with a human voice, which is lore breaking and just looks & sounds so inappropriate. What`s the point of playing a Wookie if you aren`t barking. This can be "explained" by having a vocabulator collar which does the actual "speaking".

 

2) Listening through growls for every quest dialog. This brings up the question as to how such a Wookie would be able to commuicate with NPCs. It would require that all NPCs be able to understand the language of Wookies, which also feels somewhat lore breaking & feels wrong.

 

Wookies are probably the only race popular & wanted enough to justify recording a large library of dedicated dialog to avoid the KOTOR problem of obviously repetitive alien dialog. In KOTOR, alien dialog felt like an escape clause used to save on recording voices. In SWTOR, the alien dialog is rare and feels more like it's there to add variety.

 

Adding support for racial dialog vocals would make it possible to expand the existing ones, where the voice actors can record some racial dialog for added effect on some quests. If a Twi'lek PC is talking to a Twi'lek NPC, they could say a greeting in their native tongue for example, and they can even throw in an NPC or two that replies with "I can't speak that langauge" just to add some variety.

[HavenAE]

2) The Republic needs more cool alien races: This was said in another thread somewhere, and I agreed with it. The Sith are the racists. The Republic are open to alien relations. There should be many more race options available to the Republic that AREN'T (<---this is key) available to the Sith. This would give an incentive to roll Republic. Examples of races that could be included are the Kel Dor (Master Plo Koon), the Nautolan (Master Kit Fisto), Togruta (Ahsoka Tano), Wookies! (for Smugglers!), the Voss, etc. These are races that I've already seen in game, so the models are already there. They just need to be playable. This would definitely draw players that are more interested in aesthetics to the Republic.

 

 

This.

 

 

This one point is the sole reason why I never even bothered to look at the republic side.

 

Republic you have:

 

Humans

Green humans

Blind humans

Humans (with metal bits)

 

Zabrak and Twilek.

 

Empire you have:

 

Humans

Humans (with metal bits)

Blue Humans (but at least they have cool eyes and a little bit different hair options)

Grey humans

 

Zabrak, twilek, and pureblood sith.

 

 

Now Chiss and Rattataki might just be recolored humans but there's is a significant enough difference in their limited appearance options to warrant them as a separate race.

 

Miraluka are seriously just humans but with blindfolds, just like Cyborgs are JUST humans with bits of metal in their face.

Mirialan you can actually quite easily make a mirialan look like a slightly odd skin-toned human, with face tattoos.

 

 

 

I tried to tell bioware this months and months ago, that races are an integral part of your character. It all ties into how people identify with their character. I don't particularly like playing a human in games because I AM a human. Why wouldn't I want to play some other races because it's going to be exotic to me, it's part of the fantasy. Bioware didn't listen though, they just made excuses.

 

Add other more exotic races to republic side and I'm sure a lot of people will take a second look.

[HavenAE]

I can only say per the Consular story, which is probably the weakest of the Force users in terms of story, but I was surprised that they didn't spend more time learning about the Force. Also, the end is much more repetitive. They also lost all of the cool remarks you could make at the beginning of the game. You could pick out things in the beginning, like you were pretty smart, but as time went on, you felt dumber, and had less interesting options for dialogue..

 

kind of like the sith inquisitor, the story is so predictable it actually gets pretty boring at about level 40, because you already know how it's ending. It likewise lost a lot of it's spunk in dialogue in later levels.

[HavenAE]

Great post. I was just thinking about this dilemma. The race additions would be an easily implemented and viable draw to the republic. It's also something that, as you mentioned having models already in-game, they could turn around pretty quickly.

 

Something else that would be a draw for some folks would be cooler ships. The Imps win that one as well...

 

Exactly like Cathar.. easy EASY model implementation for republic. there aren't really and model changes that are too different from a human's basic shape to cause clipping issues and stuff like that, those that are in game and have dialogue sound normal and of course all know dialogue is class based not race based in the first place (which is one reason we'll NEVER see wookies)

 

Togruta is another example, obviously the twi'lek solution was to just negate all head gear, same can be done for togruta, naotolan, devaronians, and so on.

 

This is one of the major areas I find this game lacking severely not the bugs and glitches, not the solo space combat on rails, not the sometimes mediocre story, not to ability delay or the low FPS, not the sub-par PvP, not the fact that story in flashpoints dies as soon as the first one is finished, not the linear world on the first 2 planets, or the slow run speed until sprint.

 

Races. Your characters customization and your ability to really get into it. this is the one place that Bioware dropped the ball for me and the one thing that may eventually drive me to another game.

 

The one place Bioware is truly clueless is how MMO players bond to their characters, it isn't in the story or how they fit in the world, its about how they look, what kind of control you have over the look, and what kind of personality they have.

 

Bioware has missed the mark COMPLETELY on all of this. In fact I'm not even sure they're in the actual shooting range, maybe the lobby.

 

Note: By Personality I mean little things like how they stand, how emotes and animations COULD be different based on race, the overall feel that you're playing something other than just a collection of polygons on a computer screen.

[Sagarys]

I don't think it would confuse anyone. PvP servers is where it will be most needed & used, and players will quickly become accustomed to it. It doesn't confuse people that you can be defeated in a fight, and then reappear a few seconds later to continue the fight. Bioware has already said they intend on having same-faction PvP because they think it will help (I disagree), and this would be an extension to help solve the faction imbalance.

 

How could it be any more confusing that seeing a player that's a Level 50 red skinned Sith Inquisitor one day in PvP, and the next day you see a Level 50 human Jedi Sage with the same name fighting alongside you? The Empire is all about personal gain. Bounty Hunters would be expected to fight for the highest bidder. The Agent would be seen as being undercover. My Sith Inquisitor has killed more Dark Lords than the Jedi. Infighting is one of the requirements of being a Sith. People also aren't stupid. They know that it's really a gameplay aspect to help balance out PvP. Is it any less believable to have Dark Lords of the Sith playing sports against Jedi Masters for the entertainment of the Hutts?

 

On PvP servers, the faction imbalance causes the PvE problem to escalate because players don't want to be on the smaller faction for harder PvP and they don't want to reroll characters because their main interest is in PvP. Once you have Empire players fighting for the Republic to keep the PvP going and the fights start balancing out, it creates the opening other players need to roll Republic while being able to continue participating in PvP. This will also help the other ideas that would make Republic "more hip" have an effect. Good PR alone won't fix faction imbalance.

 

There is too much faction specific stuff in SWTOR for complete faction change to be a viable solution to the problem. A more efficient solution is PvP specific, namely cross-faction PvP. It doesn't solve PvE, but it does create the foundation for the other ideas to solve the PvE imbalance.

 

This is an interesting idea, but it is a coding nightmare. These suggestions should be things that can be easily implemented. Unfortunately, what you suggest, much like my #1 (which I admitted was just a pipe dream) would take a very large amount of time and resources, and is thus not likely to be implemented.

[Sagarys]

I highlighted the alien one in green and the faction number one in red with explanations in their titles. Also, added an 11.

[Sagarys]

The only thing to consider when adding new races is that these races will be speaking with the same voice as other classes.

 

With Wookies as an example, you have 2 choices:

 

1) Wookiee speaking with a human voice, which is lore breaking and just looks & sounds so inappropriate. What`s the point of playing a Wookie if you aren`t barking. This can be "explained" by having a vocabulator collar which does the actual "speaking".

 

2) Listening through growls for every quest dialog. This brings up the question as to how such a Wookie would be able to commuicate with NPCs. It would require that all NPCs be able to understand the language of Wookies, which also feels somewhat lore breaking & feels wrong.

 

Wookies are probably the only race popular & wanted enough to justify recording a large library of dedicated dialog to avoid the KOTOR problem of obviously repetitive alien dialog. In KOTOR, alien dialog felt like an escape clause used to save on recording voices. In SWTOR, the alien dialog is rare and feels more like it's there to add variety.

 

Adding support for racial dialog vocals would make it possible to expand the existing ones, where the voice actors can record some racial dialog for added effect on some quests. If a Twi'lek PC is talking to a Twi'lek NPC, they could say a greeting in their native tongue for example, and they can even throw in an NPC or two that replies with "I can't speak that langauge" just to add some variety.

 

You make a good point here. Wookie's would be really difficult to include in a game that is largely voice acted. Perhaps BioWare could create a Republic only cosmetic item that allows a character to "mask" their appearance as a Wookie for a period of time?

[HavenAE]

Not to mention, as I said, dialogue is based on class not on race.

 

They'd have to make a big exception in their system to allow wookies or any other race that's incapable of speaking basic into the game.

 

Although Lowbacca did have his translator droid, but then we're supposed to just accept that thousands maybe millions of these translator droids exist a few thousand years before we ever see mention of one...

 

 

Bioware really kind of screwed the pooch on making class the focus of your character and not race.

Edited January 23, 2012 by HavenAE

[VicSkimmr]

That still allows for quite a few species that should be playable as of now.

 

Togruta (SI comp)

Cathar (Trooper comp)

Weequay (trooper comp)

Kaleesh (SI comp? someone has it)

Nautolan (plenty of armored NPCs in game already)

Kel'Dor (plenty of armored NPCs in game already)

 

All of these species speak basic and have an essentially human face. The only exceptions are Kaleesh and Kel'Dor, both of which wear masks that cover their mouths which shouldn't require any additional coding since they already have the animations in place.

 

All that would really need to be done would be to flesh out the options in the character creation screen, but since all of those options would basically just be designing head and facial features for each body type, it shouldn't take an enormous effort. Hopefully some of these will show up in the game soon via legacy or something

 

IMO, they should be broken down as follows:

 

Republic - Togruta (force users), Kel'Dor (force users), Cathar (everything), Nautolan (everything)

Empire: Weequay (BH), Kaleesh (force users)

Edited January 23, 2012 by VicSkimmr

[Sabarok]

This is an interesting idea, but it is a coding nightmare. These suggestions should be things that can be easily implemented. Unfortunately, what you suggest, much like my #1 (which I admitted was just a pipe dream) would take a very large amount of time and resources, and is thus not likely to be implemented.

 

Switching factions permanently is the coding (and designing) nightmare. Cross-Faction Open World would be complicated to code but would result in the creation of a new feature that can be extended to support new content (Imagine a pure-PvP planet with 3 economic factions that players align with when landing). Cross-Faction Warzones wouldn't be too hard, and AFAIK are already in development. It's not about how hard something is to code, but if the effort is worth doing. It is for this forum for us players to put forth ideas that can solve problems we have and for Bioware to do the effort analysis.

 

I don't see your #1 as a pipe dream. I think it's a great idea. I don't think we'll see the existing class quests redone (Changing anything in the story requires re-doing the voice work), but it is a reasonable dream that when future content comes out that expands the class quest that Bioware applies the feedback about the quality of the story telling. I made a thread about this called "Cross Class Quests". Feel free to borrow anything for your #1. I have found some great dialog in the Sith Inquisitor story line, including snarky remarks.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=213209

[Sabarok]

You make a good point here. Wookie's would be really difficult to include in a game that is largely voice acted. Perhaps BioWare could create a Republic only cosmetic item that allows a character to "mask" their appearance as a Wookie for a period of time?

 

Portable & compact holo emitter that changes the player's outward appearance but doesn't alter their voice. It would look silly, but in an awesome way