Lord_Karsk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Welcome to a leveled playing field have a nice day. this... LIVE WITH IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Assassins crit 3k-4k with Maul on a good day. You have nothing to complain about. The changes were necessary. Operatives were never supposed to be this bursty. they have 2x the utility and 2x the out of stealth damage. what kind of post are you writing here? think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorc/Sage and their bubbles. Bubbles are pains in the asses no matter the class. Some benifit greatly from the use of them and deservingly so. Sometimes however when you have bubbles that make you pretty immune to damage while being able to faceheel on someone to full health without them every stopping the dps is a little much sometimes. See this is the one thing that drives me mad every single time. It's like this bubble had some kind of obscure hidden power that nobody can explain, when in reality it's nothing else than a 3k heal every 20 seconds. How can that person be anymore "immune" to damage than another light armor wearing class that gets a heal every 20 seconds? There are times when you can't dps 3k in the span of 20 seconds? I have never seen that happen, but you should ask yourself whether it only looked like it was the bubble or if there was something else happening (like cross healing, guard, taunt CCed dps etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No one here is saying that stunlock till death is a good mechanic, but the damage isn't as bad as people are making it out to be, and even if it was it's still the only thing that particular tree does. It's a design failure from the beginning, take away the only thing does makes it a worthless tree. Fortunately for the class overall, shared tree does amazing DPS, and their healing is incredible, but scrapper/Imperial equivalent needs an overhaul, not just a flat nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakozoid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 BTW, there is new patch coming. 1.1.1 it's on PTS already. There will be nerf for OP/scoundrel again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And so the usual song beginning "they nerfed us, now they need to buff us to balance it out!" Hilarious coming from the real OP class, the Sorceror. Certain aspects of a class can be overtuned while others are undertuned. For Operatives, the burst is high but utility and on target uptime are low. If you nerf the burst you're left with an undertuned class in all the other apsects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 BTW, there is new patch coming. 1.1.1 it's on PTS already. There will be nerf for OP/scoundrel again. That's what the complaints in this thread have been about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I dunno about you guys... but the ability to heal a quarter of my health is pretty decent utility. Ops/scoundrels needed a nerf- we all know it. They may have gone overboard- but let's face it, a decent scoundrel could still roll anyone who wasn't great even without stealth- this just makes it so they have to be smart to take out good players. The Ops that'll leave are the FOTM players who'll be playing sorc next month, then marauder when sorc get nerfed, then mercs, etc... The Ops that stay and are good will still destroy- they just will have to figure out how to manage killing someone who isn't stunned the whole time. Nope. The good Operatives already see how sub par the class is at geared high level group play. These nerfs will simply make them respec healer because Concealment will no longer be even slightly viable. Mostly bad players who PUG complain about Operatives. Good group players understand the Concealment spec is already underpowered for group play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 See this is the one thing that drives me mad every single time. It's like this bubble had some kind of obscure hidden power that nobody can explain, when in reality it's nothing else than a 3k heal every 20 seconds. How can that person be anymore "immune" to damage than another light armor wearing class that gets a heal every 20 seconds? There are times when you can't dps 3k in the span of 20 seconds? I have never seen that happen, but you should ask yourself whether it only looked like it was the bubble or if there was something else happening (like cross healing, guard, taunt CCed dps etc.) I understand what you are asking and these are many one on one situations where I've witnessed this. To the point where if I wasn't proccing and crits for dmg and they got that bubble up and started to heal, that I'd just turn and walk away from them. I've seen someone exploiting valor by doing the dmg to self spell then healing, all this while having an opponnet bashing on them. I attacked the guy then stopped when I realized he was trying to kill this lame *** farmer. The sorc/sage was having no issues keeping up with the damage output. As for comparable levels and gear I can't say but I've seen non-50's performing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericBadGuy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I fear for the class that is next month's witch hunt, I really do. I hope they don't enjoy their PvE endgame, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Nope. The good Operatives already see how sub par the class is at geared high level group play. These nerfs will simply make them respec healer because Concealment will no longer be even slightly viable. Mostly bad players who PUG complain about Operatives. Good group players understand the Concealment spec is already underpowered for group play. Try harder with you fail argument. Guess your a angry Operative who is to bad of a players so you cant play anything else without losing... Dont worry i'm sure the wow rouge is there waiting for you... Btw some people on these forum talk about the Agent like it only have a knife. The class actually have a rifle to that does damage.And after this patch i guess they can actually try using it for the first time. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lord_Karsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xippin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So what?! I'm merc. DPS class too. Full champ set. And I never expect to hit even on 4K. Why you should? You're ranged... You have heavy armor... You have a knockback... why not me is irrelevant when you are comparing 2 different classes. Give me a gap closer and heavy armor and we'll call it even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Try harder with you fail argument. Guess your a angry Operative who is to bad of a players so you cant play anything else without losing... Dont worry i'm sure the wow rouge is there waiting for you... Why, he's completely right? It's a burst DPS class that forces reactive play from a teammate, the moment he pops out, stun, shield, guard, guardian leap, anything and he's completely removed from play. Melee Scoundrel/Operatives punish bad play, and general lack of awareness, which is something you try to iron out at high-end play. Now they won't even have this "utility" either, making it a dead spec. The class will prevail, thanks to it's amazing mobile healing, and it's PvE DPS as Dirty Fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrewloose Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm not level 50 yet. So my opinion probably doesnt count for much. But for the most part the OP's I've seen in the last couple of days, myself included, are still perfectly capable in pvp. The one ability we had that was over the top imo is the knock down on your face one. That thing would cause the attacker to become out of phase sometimes like your looking though the floor at them. Making it nearly impossible to target them if you were already targeting another opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The WoW clone is complete kneejerk % buffs in the wrong places with 0 compensation for the parts of the class that are lacking. Don't roll fotm to make up for lack of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You're ranged... You have heavy armor... You have a knockback... why not me is irrelevant when you are comparing 2 different classes. Give me a gap closer and heavy armor and we'll call it even. K i guess your a newbie player, listen first of all you have more then 1 stun,and these are good for closing the gap. Secons i dont know if you know this but that thing in your hand is actually a rifle and you can use this to fire with you know because you are a ranged class as well. + you have stealt heals etc, you will see this when you lvl above lvl 10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Silversoth_ Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Why, he's completely right? It's a burst DPS class that forces reactive play from a teammate, the moment he pops out, stun, shield, guard, guardian leap, anything and he's completely removed from play. Melee Scoundrel/Operatives punish bad play, and general lack of awareness, which is something you try to iron out at high-end play. Now they won't even have this "utility" either, making it a dead spec. The class will prevail, thanks to it's amazing mobile healing, and it's PvE DPS as Dirty Fighting. Please by that logic lets make Immortal Juggernauts have insane HP and defensive stats so that it requires 4 players working as a team to take them down, we can encourage teamwork amongst an even larger amount of players! You just pointed it out yourself, when each and every class needs to work as a team in order to survive stopping one class, it means that one class probably has a problem. Edited January 21, 2012 by _Silversoth_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xippin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) K i guess your a newbie player, listen first of all you have more then 1 stun,and these are good for closing the gap. Secons i dont know if you know this but that thing in your hand is actually a rifle and you can use this to fire with you know because you are a ranged class as well. + you have stealt heals etc, you will see this when you lvl above lvl 10... I'm actually level 50 (Valor 57), have been for a while...so lets school you a bit... Stuns...we have 2 edit: Shoot first knockdown - 4m range - requires stealth - 1000/1000 resolve (not a gap closer) Dirty Kick 45 Sec (30 talented) cooldown - 4m range - 500/1000 Resolve (NOT a gap closer) Flash Bang 90 Sec cooldown - 10m range 750/100 Resolve (NOT a gap closer) - Breaks on ANY damage Rifle - the ONLY 2 attacks we have as scoundral (melee) dps are auto attack, and a DoT ability that ticks for about 200-400 dmg every few seconds...so obviously you have NO clue what you are talking about here since we use our PISTOL and SHOTGUN to melee. Stealth - You can see me from 10 meters away unless I use my 45 second cooldown to prevent it. I find it extremely easy to knock SI:Assassins and IA:Operatives out of stealth because i'm intelligent enough to look for them, I recommend you do the same. Heals - LOL...we aren't a Sorc...we don't stack alacrity to increase our dps as it does NOTHING for us. Our heals are worthless since they are extremely easily set back by ANY attack since we are spec'd DPS and not Heals. You missed our snare - 12 second duration, 12 second cooldown, 10 meter range (Also not a gap closer) Edited January 21, 2012 by Xippin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Please by that logic lets make Immortal Juggernauts have insane HP and defensive stats so that it requires 4 players working as a team to take them down, we can encourage teamwork amongst an even larger amount of players! You just pointed it out yourself, when each and every class needs to work as a team in order to survive stopping one class, it means that one class probably has a problem. No ****, and I've acknowledged that in every single post. They have one very particular pubstomping role, and it's not a good mechanic at all however it's ALL that particular tree can do. That's the flawed part. It's ALL scrapper was designed to do. Now they're taking that away and they're leaving a completely deadweight tree behind. It should never have been implemented the way it is, because it's never going to be fun for the majority of the playerbase on the recieving end, however if they're going to strip them of that they need to give them something in return, to bring them back in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm sorry, but I'm in almost full Tier 2 PvP gear stacking multiple buffs. I EXPECT to be hitting pretty damn hard as a burst DPS class. It's especially true since I'm taking shots for between 3-4K back to back to back from RANGE and there is no set up AT ALL for it, and I've got pretty damn good gear to boot. I'm not going to further attempt to try and convince anyone of anything. I actually just quit immediately after I saw it. I just needed to get my forum on one last time before I'm officially done Just because you have not learned to exploit your class to the fullest doesn't mean others have not. The devs have the real numbers for everyone. If you claim a class is broken by changes before playing with the changes it comes across as overpowered protectionism. The reality is most ops and scoundrels have never used more than a fraction of their skills in pvp so almost none of them are qualified to comment on the playability with these changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkyd Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Nerf is simply too much. I wouldn't have much of a problem with any one of the nerfs on their own, but combined, it's completely over doing it. I am in almost full champion with a few pieces of centurion and one missing piece of PvP gear. I have ~565 expertise. The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS! That doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I hit for about 1K with Hidden Strike. On a geared tank, I've seen as low as 927 follwed by 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.3k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. This is with Acid Blade. Now, a straight 20% reduction in damage on Hidden Strike is a pretty damn large amount. Combined with the Acid Blade reduction, I'm scared to see what I'd hit for without crits. Add in the fact that we will only get a 1.5 second knockdown, and it's just wow... The class might end up being completely useless in PvP. We don't have ANY of the utility that a lot of other classes get. They nerfed the only thing we had, opening burst, and they nerfed it significantly. I haven't even mentioned PvE. I haven't done it much, so I don't know if it will make much difference there. Probably not being that fights are longer and you don't use your opener much. Anyways, I think it was a huge mistake to ner so much all at one time. I cancelled my subscription. It wasn't even "rage quitting." It was more like, "If it's only been one month and they are making huge nerfs, I can't imagine what else is in store." I don't feel like rolling another class if Operatives do indeed become useless. I kind of just needed a reason to quit to push me over that edge and this was it. And I called it a little while ago. I said they'd to Operatives exactly what they did in DAoC with Critblades - completely ruin them. The story was good though, I'll give them that. Thank god I caught my subscription before it renews today. EDIT: If Hidden Strike still completely fills the resolve bar, then the Jarring Strike talent becomes completely useless. There would be NO reason to ever take it. Instead, you could open with Hidden Strike and you'd probably get at least one more attack in before the person reacted. You could then stun them Debilitae and follow up with flash bang later. They need to fix that if it's the case. Dear Bioware, I can no longer press my three buttons and kill anyone at the time and place of my choosing. This is simply unacceptable. Until you overcompensate for my complete lack of skill, my account will remain cancelled. Sincerely F.O.T.M.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safewayundrwear Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This thread makes me giggle. I look forward to next month when sage/sorc or BH/Commando get some sort of nerf. Its going to happen... This is only the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmcubed Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) As a rank 75 Valor player of concealment Ops with all but 1 piece of BM gear: The burst is big. Probably too big when going against certain classes. I've hit for 8.6k before the bracket changes. Anyone in Medium or lower armor does take a lot of damage. I can go 1/2 way with all the sub 50's who haven't seen full geared 50 premades and I will agree some changes were needed, but their proposed changes are a bit too severe. As posted by someone earlier, if a person is good enough or has the support to survive the opening burst, Ops aren't that great. We have very little utility outside the 5-10m range. IMO Bioware really needs to wait for more people to gear up and realize this. I'll take the 20% nerf for hidden strike or 1.5 sec. reduction on stun, but both AND the acid blade nerf is going to completely illegitimize the concealment tree. Edited January 21, 2012 by pmcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenai Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Nerf is simply too much. I wouldn't have much of a problem with any one of the nerfs on their own, but combined, it's completely over doing it. I am in almost full champion with a few pieces of centurion and one missing piece of PvP gear. I have ~565 expertise. The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS! That doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I hit for about 1K with Hidden Strike. On a geared tank, I've seen as low as 927 follwed by 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.3k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. This is with Acid Blade. Now, a straight 20% reduction in damage on Hidden Strike is a pretty damn large amount. Combined with the Acid Blade reduction, I'm scared to see what I'd hit for without crits. Add in the fact that we will only get a 1.5 second knockdown, and it's just wow... The class might end up being completely useless in PvP. We don't have ANY of the utility that a lot of other classes get. They nerfed the only thing we had, opening burst, and they nerfed it significantly. I haven't even mentioned PvE. I haven't done it much, so I don't know if it will make much difference there. Probably not being that fights are longer and you don't use your opener much. Anyways, I think it was a huge mistake to ner so much all at one time. I cancelled my subscription. It wasn't even "rage quitting." It was more like, "If it's only been one month and they are making huge nerfs, I can't imagine what else is in store." I don't feel like rolling another class if Operatives do indeed become useless. I kind of just needed a reason to quit to push me over that edge and this was it. And I called it a little while ago. I said they'd to Operatives exactly what they did in DAoC with Critblades - completely ruin them. The story was good though, I'll give them that. Thank god I caught my subscription before it renews today. EDIT: If Hidden Strike still completely fills the resolve bar, then the Jarring Strike talent becomes completely useless. There would be NO reason to ever take it. Instead, you could open with Hidden Strike and you'd probably get at least one more attack in before the person reacted. You could then stun them Debilitae and follow up with flash bang later. They need to fix that if it's the case. I crit for sub 3k with everything on, on fresh lvl 50, with my 3 seconds cast. You complain about 5,6k crits? Followed by several 3k crits? You are still very much OP mister operative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torkepl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Have any of You QQ Operatives actually played the class post-nerf for five minutes? Nerf didnt even hit live and you act like sky is falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts