Dalnar Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Well I do not neglect it, just saying watchman mechanics (dots) are better for pvp, than to relly on procs. Or rather, its much more easier to to manage dots, than procs. My sentinel is combat as well tho..at least for time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Well I do not neglect it, just saying watchman mechanics (dots) are better for pvp, than to relly on procs. Or rather, its much more easier to to manage dots, than procs. My sentinel is combat as well tho..at least for time being. Combat does not rely on procs. Blade Rush guarantees Ataru procs and therefore constant +10% damage. All you need to do is use BR (which already hits quite hard on its own with double Ataru procs) before hard hitting skills. The extra procs on other skills is a very nice bonus though. Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Combat does not rely on procs. Blade Rush guarantees Ataru procs and therefore constant +10% damage. All you need to do is use BR (which already hits quite hard on its own with double Ataru procs) before hard hitting skills. The extra procs on other skills is a very nice bonus though. No it doesn't. The fact that you don't know it doesn't really butchers you credibility regarding proc management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomedtoDie Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) 700+ ataru procs and can proc 2x in one 2.1k blade rush, not hard hitting? k. People who say watchman has more viable burst than combat need to actually try combat and attack something that is not standing still. Edited January 22, 2012 by DoomedtoDie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) No it doesn't. The fact that you don't know it doesn't really butchers you credibility regarding proc management. Where did I make a mistake exactly? BR is an automatic Ataru proc and +10% damage bonus on next focus spender every single time (sometimes the buff icon of Opportune is slightly delayed because ataru animation takes too long as well as lag). BR also has a 50% chance to proc a second Ataru strike and so do all other strikes as long as the BR buff is up which it is if you diligently do a BR in between harder hitting skills. Just to be sure, I tested this again before posting earlier and just now. So please, enlighten us how I was wrong. Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acharial Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 combat has far better burst than Watchman. DPS wise they are probably similiar in a long fight but overall combat is better for burst dmg. You have to stand still to actually be able to pull as much dps as you can with watchman, It's a very stationary build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOfficialGOAT Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 700+ ataru procs and can proc 2x in one 2.1k blade rush, not hard hitting? k. People who say watchman has more viable burst than combat need to actually try combat and attack something that is not standing still. It's amazing to me how people think one root is the answer to everything in PvP that root means nothing. Half the time it doesn't work this goes for Master Strikes root as well (have videos to prove both skills). If Combat actually worked like it was suppose to then it might be worth using. I personally hated the spec, put up bad numbers in WZ's and just flat out did terrible. Once I switched to Watchmen I'm hitting 400k-500k damage in most WZ's with or without a healer. You might be right Combat has a high burst but Watchmen will out damage it within 10secs of starting the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOfficialGOAT Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 combat has far better burst than Watchman. DPS wise they are probably similiar in a long fight but overall combat is better for burst dmg. You have to stand still to actually be able to pull as much dps as you can with watchman, It's a very stationary build. This is not true at all Watchmen you don't stand still any. Actually I rarely use Master Strike as Watchmen because I have my main rotation up at all times. Combat tree has Master Strike built into it, read the skill descriptions. To my experience from my server Combat Sentinels don't do very well in WZ's. In fact most Combat Sentinels have switched specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOfficialGOAT Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm not hating on Watchman, I play it sometimes as well for a change of pace. What I dislike is the fact almost every freaking Watchman lover has to come out and spread how much better Watchman is, trying to turn every Sentinel into clones of each other over perceived uberness that is simply not as good as they think it is. It's fine to immensely enjoy a tree, it's another to spit on the rest and declare one the best based on what you feel instead of hard facts which we don't have, sadly. What's for for certain is that Watchman beats Focus and Combat in PvE steady DPS by a small margin. This is intended, it's clearly the boss fight tree. That is the only thing we can currently get accurate data on. Everything else is up on the air based on feelings. Just wait till the DPS meters come out, wait isn't the damage meter in WZ's a good indicator of this? I don't PvE at all and don't plan to ever but I will continue to use Watchmen over any of the others specs because my feelings say it is the best for PvP. If we put two equal skilled and geared players in a WZ's where they just went for damage I am willing to bet that Watchmen would win every time. You saying Watchmen isn't what everyone thinks it is yet every Sentinel that I see that does any good in WZ's uses this spec. Also to top that off Watchmen isn't doing the damage it suppose to right now so go ahead and add 30% extra damage to the DoTs that crit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Just wait till the DPS meters come out, wait isn't the damage meter in WZ's a good indicator of this? I don't PvE at all and don't plan to ever but I will continue to use Watchmen over any of the others specs because my feelings say it is the best for PvP. If we put two equal skilled and geared players in a WZ's where they just went for damage I am willing to bet that Watchmen would win every time. You saying Watchmen isn't what everyone thinks it is yet every Sentinel that I see that does any good in WZ's uses this spec. Also to top that off Watchmen isn't doing the damage it suppose to right now so go ahead and add 30% extra damage to the DoTs that crit I beat Watchman Sentinels in WZ daily with Combat. I also see good Focus players. It's more about skill than the spec. Besides, total damage number doesn't mean much. Sometimes I've got less than 100k, but I killed the ball carrier at least a dozen times. And before you say I'd do better as Watchman, I played it all day, same numbers, except they are kiting me around and I barely get any kills. And I can't root people in the middle of fire in huttball. Meh. Survivability is a bit higher as expected though. Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargok Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 How exactly do you have problems getting kited? Only real thing combat has going for it is better force camo. However, buffed leap in watchman is huge. Never had trouble getting kited if I don't play bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detcelfer Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 All I know is sentinels need to be buffed. I feel so weak out in the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargok Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not really. Combat maybe a little bit. I pretty much always top damage and can quite often 1v2 thanks to heals and ton of survivability cooldowns. You just have to utilise all your tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 How exactly do you have problems getting kited? Only real thing combat has going for it is better force camo. However, buffed leap in watchman is huge. Never had trouble getting kited if I don't play bad. And a root on crippling throw, a root on master strike, 15% faster movement speed, and an attack that gives you 100% armor penetration. oh and better burst damage... Not sayaing watchman isnt good, it is, but to say combat only has force camo going for it is bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargok Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) In regards of getting kited. Maybe check context. Immobilizes don't really do **** in that regard, either they are out of range or you can catch up already. Move speed isn't a big deal either. And damn that armor pen sure does wonders for not getting kited. Edited January 22, 2012 by Yargok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) crippling throw is a ranged attack that roots. Edited January 22, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Combat: Two extra roots. Extra snare break. 15% runspeed. 100% armor pen for tank kills. Decent garunteed burst but it gets muddled up in PvP fairly often due to the way the ataru proc buff works. Watchmen: Uber transendance. 6s Kick. 100% invuln force camo. Very fast Centering building. Point blank Leap. Lower cd on Leap. Excellent sustained pressure and decent burst. When it comes down to it, Watchmen is simply better at keeping damage going and screwing up healers. To those saying interrupts are pointless, you really don't understand lol. Yes they can cycle different heals and cast something else. But they are still losing time, and your dots and other hits you sneak in are adding up ESPECIALLY when you have assistance. You can prevent heals for a loooooong time with: Kick->Leap->Awe->Kick->Stasis. This is assuming the healer is very on the ball as more often then not thanks to the fact that you can let most heals partially cast before interrupting, and they will usually use an instant that incurs gcd like shield or emergency medpac etc, you will have extra time. Usually its even better cause you can go Kick->Leap->Kick->Stasis->Kick->Awe->Kick etc. Worst case scenario is the first rotation, which is still quite brutal. Combat is nice in huttball with its roots. But Watchmen also has crazy good transandence and great uptime on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargok Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 crippling throw is a ranged attack that roots. That 10m range is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Glad you agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) That 10m range is huge. You really have no idea how often it comes in handy. Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yargok Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) reduced cd on leap with no min range is all I need. I've played combat. Now I play watchman. I don't miss the immobilize at all. All I miss from combat is the camo. That and the fact that it's more fun to play. Edited January 22, 2012 by Yargok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 reduced cd on leap with no min range is all I need. I've played combat. Now I play watchman. I don't miss the immobilize at all. All I miss from combat is the camo. That and the fact that it's more fun to play. I miss ball carrier BBQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) 700+ ataru procs and can proc 2x in one 2.1k blade rush, not hard hitting? k. People who say watchman has more viable burst than combat need to actually try combat and attack something that is not standing still. So, what you are saying is that Combat has a 7% chance of doing more damage on a Blade Rush than a Merciless Strike? Edited January 23, 2012 by Coramac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizque Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The -2s off kick is so crucial for pvp that it is essentially a must have talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztee Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've found that there are a few reasons I seem to do better with Watchman: 1. More focus, faster centring, excellent Zen effect. 2. DoT's prevent opponent's re-stealthing and burn while you channel stasis. 3. Reduced cd on leap and kick is excellent. 4. Merciless Slash hits like a truck, especially once you've built 5 stacks of Juyo. 5. DoT's are elemental damage. 6. Self healing might be minor, but it's a nice side-effect. 7. Cauterise slowing opponents down (when talented) in addition to all the good burny stuff. Things I miss from other specs: 1. Root effect from Crippling Throw (Combat). 2. CC break from Force Camo (Combat). 3. Precision Slash (Combat). 4. Faster base movement speed (Combat - Ataru form bonus). 5. Zealous Leap (Focus). 6. FORCE BOMBING! (Focus - build stacks of Singularity then Force Sweep = BOOM). this ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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