Ssfbistimg Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 wow all the little bads came in crying for nerfs, now that the nerfs happen they tell those who got nerfed to stop crying. if that isn't just the funniest ***** ever. Personally I don't care that they got nerfed but everyone knows once a nerf bat swings it doesn't stop. So get your gloating in now, because their are many more nerfs coming. Cause the bads who cried for Scoundrel/Operatives nerfs will find someone else to ***** about later this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Like i said before what all the op/sc players seem to be ignoring here is that buffing and nerfing of classes is a fluid process just look at how rogue changed in wow. One day it s nerfed next day they might redo the talent tree or add new skills. Other clasess WILL get nerfed other classes will get buffed. Live with it. Oper/sc was making people frustrated up to the point they were "claiming" they were unsubscribing or quiting cause it ruined the game for them . At this moment Bioware is very sensitive to this kind of thing as they are trying to maintain the player base. So expect them to review the nerfs once things have settled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So like you know it might actually be ...gasp... uncertain.. whether you win or lose the fight when you engage in pvp. Like for everyone else. The problem is after an Ops initial 5 moves, there is a 3 second gap, then Shiv > lacerate, and another 2 for Backstab. Between those gaps there are no hard hits, so if you are at 50% with an Op into his offensive cooldowns, you should win. The class isn't designed for sustained fighting. Whether this nerf is in line we won't know until it comes out, but we will see. Still, I'm an Op with 15k hp, and I can count on my hand how many times another Op has killed me in less than 5 seconds, so I'm calling bs on Tanks going down faster than I have. I've already rerolled Marauder; not because of this but because of 1.1 and ilum; I'm switching sides and there's a reason I'm not going Scoundrel; they're not as good as you think they are. No team utility, situational kills. Edited January 21, 2012 by furiousferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanPoe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So like you know it might actually be ...gasp... uncertain.. whether you win or lose the fight when you engage in pvp. Like for everyone else. I play a sage and i have no problem at all killing Operatives if they don't vanish. If they vanish and i have my CC-break up, i will still win a 1v1 100% of the time. Usually they get me to about 40% hp from their 3 second opener (that's without my bubble up, it's more like 60% with bubble), i then knock them back and then root them (if i'm full balance i'll root them, or they become rooted from the knockback if i'm hybrid), if they use dodge to remove the root, i use my 50% ranged snare and then i kite them 100-0 without them every touching me again. I don't have to use force lift, i don't have to use my 4 second stun, i usually don't have to use sprint (only need sprint if i whiff the knockback because of lag). Operatives are the easiest class in the game to kill and the easiest class in the game to kite. The only thing they have worth a damn is their 3 second stun opener and burst damage. Edited January 21, 2012 by SeanPoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuimboQuambo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ops/Scoundrels needed a nerf in burst damage. But giving them nothing in return to accommodate is stupid, and I'm not even playing these classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmund_Drake Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I play a sage and i have no problem at all killing Operatives if they don't vanish. If they vanish and i have my CC-break up, i will still win a 1v1 100% of the time. Usually they get me to about 40% hp from their 3 second opener (that's without my bubble up, it's more like 60% with bubble), i then knock them back and then root them (if i'm full balance i'll root them, or they become rooted from the knockback if i'm hybrid), if they use dodge to remove the root, i use my 50% ranged snare and then i kite them 100-0 without them every touching me again. I don't have to use force lift, i don't have to use my 4 second stun, i usually don't have to use sprint (only need sprint if i whiff the knockback because of lag). Operatives are the easiest class in the game to kill and the easiest class in the game to kite. The only thing they have worth a damn is their 3 second stun opener and burst damage. I like your honesty. A competent sage is one of the hardest classes to kill as an operative. You're going to be on cloud nine after this patch is deployed. Edited January 21, 2012 by Sigmund_Drake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 They basicly nerfed our damage 50%. Yah see there is so few of us they had to appease the masses of sorcs/inquises and well to be blunt they said to our class you dont matter and there is not enougth of you that does matter even if you all cancel,but not with sorcs and inquis. Lolwut? So you saying they went through every single ability we have and halved its damage? From what i can see it was nerfs to Flechete round, and KO on shoot first (and same for operative versions) they didn't nerf back blast or anything else which I would consider to be our bread and butter. So you can't get two free kills every few minutes when vanish comes off cooldown....Boohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavmobile Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Today I was telling my guildies that I was having less problems with the OP-erative burst now due to having a full PvP set. Guess I'll be having even less problems now, oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sean i dont think these are the final changes. I expect there will be feedback from players and they will have a look at more data from warzones and such how operatives are doing and scenarios and there will probably be further changes. I play assasin and i enjoy both tank darkness where i cant kill anyone at all unless you force pull them into the acid pool or deception where i do ok dmg but no burst out of stealth unless im using all my cooldowns and stun can stop that obviously. I think they should buff the healing aspect of the operative in more depth . I like both specs even though darkness isnt spectacular i find it somewhat dubious that people would roll a character just for 1 trick maneuver if you dont like doing other stuff like healing etc. Op healing needs more work and i expect it will get it soon enough now that big patch is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Like i said before what all the op/sc players seem to be ignoring here is that buffing and nerfing of classes is a fluid process just look at how rogue changed in wow. One day it s nerfed next day they might redo the talent tree or add new skills. Other clasess WILL get nerfed other classes will get buffed. Live with it. Oper/sc was making people frustrated up to the point they were "claiming" they were unsubscribing or quiting cause it ruined the game for them . At this moment Bioware is very sensitive to this kind of thing as they are trying to maintain the player base. So expect them to review the nerfs once things have settled down. Concealment was owning people a few times a warzone. Sorcs and Mercs are owning people the entire duration of a warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Dynas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Id expect some buffs coming your way in that department eventually .PVp balancing is a fluid process. What op had was disgusting , they still will do dmg and people will learn to play around it. Only now there is no easy mode. Operatives still rock. You should try playing some of the other classes before you say this stuff. Melee classes suck retty hard compared to operatives... especially in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmund_Drake Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There's quite a few of you that see vanish as an offensive maneuver when a majority of the time, at the upper echelons of pvp, it is solely an escape mechanism. Why? Because people aren't instagibbed like what happens in your fantasy land. You're struggling to kill a adequately geared 50 and something goes awry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I like your honesty. A competent sage is one of the hardest classes to kill as an operative. You're going to be on cloud nine after this patch is deployed. Healers are hard to kill for anyone because you know they can heal? Also personal experience may vary due to how well geared various people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Operatives still rock. You should try playing some of the other classes before you say this stuff. Melee classes suck retty hard compared to operatives... especially in pvp. Apparently you have never seen the damage a good marauder or sent can put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Operatives still rock. You should try playing some of the other classes before you say this stuff. Melee classes suck retty hard compared to operatives... especially in pvp. I have a sniper sentinel and assasin. Ive been on the recieving end of op/sm weapon on all of them. The biggest complaint was while i was playing defencive tank and would get killed before getting to hit back or standing up at 30% health which made fighting back pointless as my combat stealth did nothing with dot on me. You cant expect people to save the unbreakable will just for that stun while in a warzone. And not having it up pretty much meant you were dead. Edited January 21, 2012 by Xerkics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Healers are hard to kill for anyone because you know they can heal? Also personal experience may vary due to how well geared various people are. And every dps spec in the game has 1001 ways to prevent us from healing, if people would think to keybind their interrupt, stuns, knockbacks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tratox Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 With no Knockbacks or sprints, no sustained dmg, spongy armour and now no burst, what good is our class? seriously, if you die from a scoundrel/op with full HP play another game pvp is not for you, hell i can surive for 4-5secs with my lvl 11 Bh against high lvl ops/ scoundrels. I totally agree that no class should be able to kill another class in 2 secs but you cant massively nerf the only thing our class is good at without giving something in return, to many whiny idiots play this game and when there class gets nerfed will be complaining same as ops/scoundrels are, If the last patchs and time schedules are anything to go by, i doubt bio-ware did much testing before implementing this nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) And every dps spec in the game has 1001 ways to prevent us from healing, if people would think to keybind their interrupt, stuns, knockbacks, etc. When i play tank i guard my healer zealously , killing a healer in a warzone is more of a team effort because of guard aoe taunt etc. Alot of times the ops/smug just ignore my healer after a few times and either kill me while i was running to him or pick someone without guard. There are multiple situation that can happen here. You dont always get to use an interrupt. I think some of the republic classes interrupts have awkawrd animation times so they can get stuned while doing it. Edited January 21, 2012 by Xerkics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmund_Drake Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And every dps spec in the game has 1001 ways to prevent us from healing, if people would think to keybind their interrupt, stuns, knockbacks, etc. Battling a competent healer in a 1v1 is one of the most difficult PvP encounters for an operative. It is a given that we consistently use properly placed interrupts and CCs. Catching a healer when he is preoccupied is a different matter; I think you're referring to this type of situation when you imply killing a healer is or should be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 fotm ops ruined, skilled players will adapt and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 fotm ops ruined, skilled players will adapt and overcome. Usually a class being fotm implies people actually play the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staysa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There's quite a few of you that see vanish as an offensive maneuver when a majority of the time, at the upper echelons of pvp, it is solely an escape mechanism. Why? Because people aren't instagibbed like what happens in your fantasy land. You're struggling to kill a adequately geared 50 and something goes awry. Vanish is your gap closer, your escape mechanism and your in-combat burst, or double frontload, ambush > backstab > vanish > ambush. Like vanish, and later cos/vanish, it is basically you're one button that you need in half a dozen situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sean i dont think these are the final changes. I expect there will be feedback from players and they will have a look at more data from warzones and such how operatives are doing and scenarios and there will probably be further changes. I play assasin and i enjoy both tank darkness where i cant kill anyone at all unless you force pull them into the acid pool or deception where i do ok dmg but no burst out of stealth unless im using all my cooldowns and stun can stop that obviously. I think they should buff the healing aspect of the operative in more depth . I like both specs even though darkness isnt spectacular i find it somewhat dubious that people would roll a character just for 1 trick maneuver if you dont like doing other stuff like healing etc. Op healing needs more work and i expect it will get it soon enough now that big patch is done. Honestly I've seen too many MMOs nerf a class and leave it there for a whole expansion. It took them a month to nerf Ops, I doubt we'll see any buffs to any trees any time soon. I'm not sure if this nerf will balance things or not, but if they miss and its underpowered, don't expect any buffs. The community wanted Ops nerfed and they got it. Whether it balances things out doesn't matter. I played a Scount in DAOC and that was an op class. I could take out whole groups solo, and you'd have 2-3 posts not about the class but about you; that was the closest to god mode I've played. The community got up in arms about it to the point they were harassing devs at the their work. Scouts got nerfed, and rightly so, but the problem was all Scouts did well was PVP, they weren't invited to groups, and you had to solo to 50. None of that was addressed, and it felt more out of spite than balance. I see some of that with Operatives / Scoundrels, it does one good thing and that's burst. Its not the best healer, Lethality is a useless tree, and now I'm not sure its viability in raids. Look up the Operative forums, they're even terrible at leveling. As an Operative some of the fast kills were fun, but highly conditional, but being the class that will be inevitably nerfed is no fun either. Trust me, the class is not all roses, there are some major problems with the gameplay and its function in wz's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyMe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Vanish is your gap closer, your escape mechanism and your in-combat burst, or double frontload, ambush > backstab > vanish > ambush. Like vanish, and later cos/vanish, it is basically you're one button that you need in half a dozen situations A shame it has a 2 minute cooldown and is defeated with a dot or stealth detection or aoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMack Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Usually a class being fotm implies people actually play the class. lol this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts